Outside Topic Vanderbilt - Printable Version

Outside Topic Vanderbilt - Printable Version

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Vanderbilt - OutsiderFan - 09-20-2021

Don't know how many of y'all caught this, but on the ESPNU broadcast of Stanford 41 Vanderbilt 23, the broadcasters made mention of a $300 million investment the university is making in the college sports arms race.

It struck me as insane and I wanted to see what y'all think about it. Before I completely pan the idea, it may be Vandy has not made even reasonable investments for a long time, they are deciding to catch up all at once, and after whatever they do, will not invest much more until another 30 years pass. I don't know.

But what was described made it sound like a a whole lot of good money being thrown at a program that is never going to compete for championships in the SEC as long as Tennessee, Florida, and Georgia are around, and South Carolina will probably always be ahead in the pecking order too. It just seemed to me like Vanderbilt's priorities have warped.

What do y'all think? Would Stanford ever announce a $300 million investment to upgrade its sports facilities? How much have Stanford's sports facilities cost? Is it worth making these investments and does there need to be an ROI on them? That's the one thing about these college sports expenditures. It does't seem there ever needs to be a clear ROI and it seems more like boxes get checked than any real financial accountability ever goes on.

RE: Vanderbilt - slide - 09-20-2021

here goes:

https://news.vanderbilt.edu/2021/03/29/vanderbilt-launches-historic-300-million-investment-campaign-for-athletics/

https://southeastern14.com/football/vanderbilt-reveals-more-details-about-athletic-facilities-to-come

nice to have beer/other options at Vandy Stadium Saturday night. we should beer garden one end of our stadium (and make it a Red Coat free zone). it definitely enhances fan experience to the point you don't mind year 11 of clock mismanagement.

RE: Vanderbilt - BostonCard - 09-20-2021

(09-20-2021, 01:24 PM)slide Wrote: here goes:

https://news.vanderbilt.edu/2021/03/29/vanderbilt-launches-historic-300-million-investment-campaign-for-athletics/

https://southeastern14.com/football/vanderbilt-reveals-more-details-about-athletic-facilities-to-come

nice to have beer/other options at Vandy Stadium Saturday night. we should beer garden one end of our stadium (and make it a Red Coat free zone). it definitely enhances fan experience to the point you don't mind year 11 of clock mismanagement.

Curious what the clock mismanagement you are referring to? Shaw stole us three points by calling a time out after the Vandy second down play and getting the ball back at the end of the half for a field goal attempt as the clock expired. I only counted one time out on offense, but I don't think it was because the clock expired; it was taken with 9 seconds on the game clock. I guess we did have a delay of game on a field goal attempt. Is that what drove you to hit the beer garden?

BC

Didn't Memorial stadium cost $321 million to renovate in 2011? Throw in a $153 million Student-Athlete High Performance Center, and Vandy's outlays look cheap. That albatross didn't buy Cal much in terms of the arms race, though to be fair, the old stadium was a seismic hazard so they didn't have much of a choice.

By way of comparison, renovating Stanford stadium cost $85 million (but came with the Arillaga discount). Renovating Maples cost $26 million. Bob can probably tell you about the other Sports-related construction projects in the last 20 years (renovating the Field House, the Arillaga practice facility), but I doubt they get to $300 million in total.

BC

RE: Vanderbilt - gailtate - 09-20-2021

(09-20-2021, 01:24 PM)slide Wrote: here goes:

https://news.vanderbilt.edu/2021/03/29/vanderbilt-launches-historic-300-million-investment-campaign-for-athletics/

https://southeastern14.com/football/vanderbilt-reveals-more-details-about-athletic-facilities-to-come

nice to have beer/other options at Vandy Stadium Saturday night. we should beer garden one end of our stadium (and make it a Red Coat free zone). it definitely enhances fan experience to the point you don't mind year 11 of clock mismanagement.

LOL! You're sounding more like me and that is scary.

RE: Vanderbilt - BrevinsBest - 09-20-2021

Wasn't it just a few years ago when Vandy decided to move their athletics department under a larger university department, something like sports and recreation? My understanding was this was done to de-emphasize athletics.

(09-20-2021, 12:47 PM)OutsiderFan Wrote: Don't know how many of y'all caught this, but on the ESPNU broadcast of Stanford 41 Vanderbilt 23, the broadcasters made mention of a $300 million investment the university is making in the college sports arms race.

It struck me as insane and I wanted to see what y'all think about it. Before I completely pan the idea, it may be Vandy has not made even reasonable investments for a long time, they are deciding to catch up all at once, and after whatever they do, will not invest much more until another 30 years pass. I don't know.

But what was described made it sound like a a whole lot of good money being thrown at a program that is never going to compete for championships in the SEC as long as Tennessee, Florida, and Georgia are around, and South Carolina will probably always be ahead in the pecking order too. It just seemed to me like Vanderbilt's priorities have warped.

What do y'all think? Would Stanford ever announce a $300 million investment to upgrade its sports facilities? How much have Stanford's sports facilities cost? Is it worth making these investments and does there need to be an ROI on them? That's the one thing about these college sports expenditures. It does't seem there ever needs to be a clear ROI and it seems more like boxes get checked than any real financial accountability ever goes on.

RE: Vanderbilt - slide - 09-20-2021

(09-20-2021, 02:02 PM)BostonCard Wrote: Curious what the clock mismanagement you are referring to? Shaw stole us three points by calling a time out after the Vandy second down play and getting the ball back at the end of the half for a field goal attempt as the clock expired. I only counted one time out on offense, but I don't think it was because the clock expired; it was taken with 9 seconds on the game clock. I guess we did have a delay of game on a field goal attempt. Is that what drove you to hit the beer garden?

BC

yes, in crucial situations, plays are extremely late getting in, if they get in time at all. the Sanders mildcat seems to be a really slow personnel package to get going. anyway unnecessary DOGs or wasted TOs. I will give credit though -- no Shahfecta -- the DOG followed by TO followed by DOG which has occurred.

our whole section was yelling at Shaw on the TO you reference. as Vandy is only slightly louder than the Library, he may have heard us? then late in the game when Myrtle-ing, Shaw does the opposite -- plays are in quickly and we don't run out the clock well -- sometimes under 10, never under 5 and sometimes above 30 (or at least in stadium play clock). may be out of practice on Myrtle-ing? in these latter situations, alas the beer garden had closed so impact probably much more pronounced.

good rally (tip of the hat to the West Coasters). among others, it was great to see Garin Veris and Greg Baty at the game. we could have used them both.

RE: Vanderbilt - teejers1 - 09-20-2021

(09-20-2021, 02:02 PM)BostonCard Wrote:
(09-20-2021, 01:24 PM)slide Wrote: here goes:

https://news.vanderbilt.edu/2021/03/29/vanderbilt-launches-historic-300-million-investment-campaign-for-athletics/

https://southeastern14.com/football/vanderbilt-reveals-more-details-about-athletic-facilities-to-come

nice to have beer/other options at Vandy Stadium Saturday night. we should beer garden one end of our stadium (and make it a Red Coat free zone). it definitely enhances fan experience to the point you don't mind year 11 of clock mismanagement.

Curious what the clock mismanagement you are referring to? Shaw stole us three points by calling a time out after the Vandy second down play and getting the ball back at the end of the half for a field goal attempt as the clock expired.

BC

Slide hit the mismanagement from Vandy game. It was not getting plays in late, so much as it was snapping the ball with 15-20 seconds on play clock (when clock is running) when you have a big lead and are trying to limit Vandy opportunities to come back. Even when we punted from our own end zone in Q4, we did so with around 20(!) seconds left on the play clock. People may not have noticed it because Stanford never felt seriously threatened, but it's those little things that really should never happen when you have consistently good clock managers (which Stanford does not).

And you can say that Shaw "stole" those 3 points before halftime, but that was a gift from Vandy's own boneheaded decisions by the coach and then the receiver who ran out of bounds after the catch. And of course, Filkins' long punt return made it all possible. Still, you had to appreciate the gift and take steps to optimize receipt of same, which Shaw did (with some "encouragement" from the stands, which I doubt he heard. I mean, the ref obviously didn't hear that "Number 62 has been holding all game long!" either).

P.S. Karty may be the best kicker in Stanford history. That guy's leg is remarkable. And it's not just distance, it's how quickly the ball elevates and then carries! I think he could make a GW from 60+ if called on to do so, especially in turf stadium.

RE: Vanderbilt - slide - 09-20-2021

I think, not 100% confirmed, that we may have had fan error on the "62" call - originally misidentified as "52". :)

great call on Karty. seeing his doinks off the big board were impressive.

just for chuckles, Vandy head coach Lea talked to his team about winning the middle 8 minutes of a game -- the last 4 of the 1st half and the first 4 of the 2nd half. Saturday's results in the middle 8: Stanford 20 Vanderbilt 0. Other 52 minutes: Stanford 21 Vanderbilt 23. much closer game than it should have been. returns were a big plus -- kudos to ST coach and players.

worried about LaChip and his mobile QB this weekend.

RE: Vanderbilt - OutsiderFan - 09-20-2021

This thread is suppose to be about Vanderbilt spending on sports, and college sports spending in general.

You can bitch about David Shaw's clock and game management in a multitude of other threads, right?

RE: Vanderbilt - Papa John - 09-20-2021

OK, back to the original question. I don't know much about Vanderbilt outside of their excellent baseball program. Is Nashville also a college town in terms of supporting Vandy athletics? They didn't draw a lot of people at Saturday's game, and I don't know how $300 million is going to fix that-- unless they spend the money on the next James Franklin.

RE: Vanderbilt - 82lsju - 09-20-2021

(09-20-2021, 01:24 PM)slide Wrote: here goes:

https://news.vanderbilt.edu/2021/03/29/vanderbilt-launches-historic-300-million-investment-campaign-for-athletics/

https://southeastern14.com/football/vanderbilt-reveals-more-details-about-athletic-facilities-to-come

nice to have beer/other options at Vandy Stadium Saturday night. we should beer garden one end of our stadium (and make it a Red Coat free zone). it definitely enhances fan experience to the point you don't mind year 11 of clock mismanagement.

from the first link

Quote:Since the initial quiet phase of the campaign began in the fall, Vanderbilt has already identified $200 million toward the $300 million goal, with a $100 million commitment from the university, $90 million from anonymous donors and a $10 million lead gift from John R. Ingram, a Board of Trust member and longtime supporter of Vanderbilt Athletics. Now Vanderbilt is reaching out to the broader university community to help support the future of Vanderbilt athletics.

so the University is putting up $100m, they have another $100m in hand from donations and hope to raise another $100m. You can argue about whether the $100m in donations in hand and the $100m yet to come are net new or not but eventually Vanderbilt will have to spend some money on facilities so I'm not convinced that this is either a bad decision or out of line with their emphasis as a University.

In this rating of the worst FBS college football stadium's Vanderbilt is #1....SJSU is #5

https://moneywise.com/life/travel/worst-stadiums-in-college-football

RE: Vanderbilt - BostonCard - 09-20-2021

Good point about the lack of clock rundown. It did wind up costing us 7 meaningless points at the end of the game. I'm assuming that Shaw has not forgotten how to turtle, and rather this is more a matter of an inexperienced quarterback, And/but, the head coach should probably remind the inexperienced QB about game situation and let him know to try to let the clock tick down.

It didn't matter that the Vandy receiver went out of bounds; Shaw had a time out left that he would have called had the receiver stayed in bounds. As it happened, Shaw took the time out into halftime with him. That's why the Vandy coach called a pass play on third down rather than just run it up the middle; he wanted to get that first down so as not to have to punt.

What was incredible about Filkins' return is that we played for the block, not the return. It was the right call; a block would have left more time on the clock. But alas, sometimes it helps to be lucky.

BC

RE: Vanderbilt - slide - 09-20-2021

(09-20-2021, 04:47 PM)Papa John Wrote: OK, back to the original question. I don't know much about Vanderbilt outside of their excellent baseball program. Is Nashville also a college town in terms of supporting Vandy athletics? They didn't draw a lot of people at Saturday's game, and I don't know how $300 million is going to fix that-- unless they spend the money on the next James Franklin.

football has really never been good at Vandy so hard to answer. if you find a Franklin type and keep him, I think Vandy would end drawing well for football. small alumni fan base like Stanford, but I think generally easier to draw fans to college football in the south than the Bay Area. Vandy has had more success in men's hoops, and when they've been decent, they've drawn okay. baseball is relatively new draw big sport for them (although Vandy started the predecessor of the SEC to showcase its baseball program). the turnstiles don't spin like MSU or LSU, but Vandy probably averages 3000 a game. bigger thing about Vandy baseball is a blueprint to show that Vandy can win in a SEC revenue sport. just need to land and keep the coach. since Gordon Gee left (he eliminated the Vandy Athletic Department), the school now appears to have the commitment to sports again. with the SEC cash register and its alumni base, I don't think funding is too too big a problem with future resources.

laughing at OF for complaining about threaddrift on this Board -- threaddrift has been a big part of the Board's attraction through the years. plus random topics like this one.

RE: Vanderbilt - BostonCard - 09-20-2021

Good point about the SEC cash register. Add to it the fact that they can go bowling by playing 1 FCS team and 3 power five schools, and then go 2-6 in the SEC and that might be enough for fans.

BC

RE: Vanderbilt - winflop - 09-20-2021

(09-20-2021, 02:02 PM)BostonCard Wrote: Didn't Memorial stadium cost $321 million to renovate in 2011? Throw in a $153 million Student-Athlete High Performance Center, and Vandy's outlays look cheap. That albatross didn't buy Cal much in terms of the arms race, though to be fair, the old stadium was a seismic hazard so they didn't have much of a choice.

By way of comparison, renovating Stanford stadium cost $85 million (but came with the Arillaga discount). Renovating Maples cost $26 million. Bob can probably tell you about the other Sports-related construction projects in the last 20 years (renovating the Field House, the Arillaga practice facility), but I doubt they get to $300 million in total.

BC

Half a billion and they still use portapotties. That's Weenieville for ya

RE: Vanderbilt - teejers1 - 09-20-2021

(09-20-2021, 05:23 PM)82lsju Wrote: so the University is putting up $100m, they have another $100m in hand from donations and hope to raise another $100m. You can argue about whether the $100m in donations in hand and the $100m yet to come are net new or not but eventually Vanderbilt will have to spend some money on facilities so I'm not convinced that this is either a bad decision or out of line with their emphasis as a University.

In this rating of the worst FBS college football stadium's Vanderbilt is #1....SJSU is #5

https://moneywise.com/life/travel/worst-stadiums-in-college-football

I attended the game and believe the Vandy stadium is great for viewing the game and not unattractive at all. So I was very curious to read the article and why Vandy ranked #1 in worst college venues. The article emphasizes heavily lack of attendance - particularly in bigger venues - and also notes how student sections set the atmosphere, good or bad. Given those criteria, we all know a venue that should have been on the list.

BTW, I'd take Vandy over several P12 venues, including the Rose Bowl and the Coliseum. Of course, I put premium on game viewing from seats, ingress and egress, and concessions access as factors to consider. This article did none of that. (And pardon the thread drift - but really, who cares that much how Vandy spends its donor money? Hell, we don't even care about that for Stanford).

RE: Vanderbilt - norcard - 09-20-2021

people were saying the same about northwestern never being competitive and look at where they are now. When James Franklin was there, they were definitely competitive.

RE: Vanderbilt - slide - 09-20-2021

(09-20-2021, 06:05 PM)teejers1 Wrote: (And pardon the thread drift - but really, who cares that much how Vandy spends its donor money? Hell, we don't even care about that for Stanford).

on who cares, Francis from Stripes?

RE: Vanderbilt - chrisk - 09-20-2021

(09-20-2021, 06:31 PM)norcard Wrote: people were saying the same about northwestern never being competitive and look at where they are now. When James Franklin was there, they were definitely competitive.

Northwestern spent $270M on one large indoor athletic facility on campus, which contains a field used for football practice with a glass wall running the length of the sideline directly facing Lake Michigan. Meanwhile, the football stadium a mile from the main campus is still a dump.

RE: Vanderbilt - oldalum - 09-20-2021

(09-20-2021, 06:05 PM)teejers1 Wrote: I attended the game and believe the Vandy stadium is great for viewing the game and not unattractive at all. So I was very curious to read the article and why Vandy ranked #1 in worst college venues. The article emphasizes heavily lack of attendance.

I attended the Vandy-Georgia game in the last Franklin year, when Vandy upset Georgia. The stadium was full (admittedly probably 1/4 Georgia fans) and the game and atmosphere electric. The lack of high-level amenities (bleacher seats, ugly concrete, whatever) didn't bother me at all. I don't think Vandy expects ever to win an SEC championship in football. But if they can have a majority of winning seasons and play sometimes in a bowl I think the fan base will return. There is an extensive tailgating tradition. Student attendance seems not to be great, in part because of a tradition of heavy "pre-gaming" along the fraternity/sorority row (which non-Greek students attend). But to compete against other SEC teams, they have to be able to recruit better and need facilities to help do that--apparently training, locker room stuff as well as stadium.

[side comment: the Georgia fans were constantly woofing and barking everywhere--very annoying]