Stanford Football Head Coach--What Would You Do? - Printable Version
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Stanford Football Head Coach--What Would You Do? - Papa John - 11-29-2021
Congratulations! You have been appointed Athletic Director at Stanford!
How do you handle the football head coaching position?
RE: Stanford Football Head Coach--What Would You Do? - BobK - 11-29-2021
My vote is not require but Shaw will make some coaching changes.
RE: Stanford Football Head Coach--What Would You Do? - Papa John - 11-29-2021
Thanks, BobK, I agree. I decided to word the second item as I did because, two days after season's end, they have yet to be announced publicly.
RE: Stanford Football Head Coach--What Would You Do? - PVTree - 11-29-2021
MTL stopped by "my" tailgate this past Saturday. I was very tempted to ask him for his thoughts on the state of the football program.
Decided to not ruffle any feathers as people were ecstatic that the Prez visited us, and the tailgate organizer may not have appreciated it. Also, I'm not sure if MTL pays enough attention (or cares) about Stanford sports.
RE: Stanford Football Head Coach--What Would You Do? - beb123 - 11-29-2021
I won’t renew my season tickets (after 30+ years) next year unless there are major changes in the coaching staff.
RE: Stanford Football Head Coach--What Would You Do? - Maple Leaf - 11-29-2021
Field a team which is competitive in each game played and run a clean program.
RE: Stanford Football Head Coach--What Would You Do? - Goose - 11-29-2021
I would keep Shaw but continually evaluate his job performance. I would also examine my options. When I have what I think is a better alternative I would replace Shaw. This should always be the model, whether the coach has a "good" year or a "bad" year. When the coach has bad years, the threshold of "better alternative" naturally is lower.
I really don't place any stock in who he hires or who he fires per se. It is the result that counts. Re-arranging the deck chairs or even buying new deck chairs doesn't patch the hole in the hull. I also will evaluate his analysis of the problems and his proposed solutions/work-arounds. If I have questions he needs to have at least reasonable answers. I don't expect this discussion will be shared with the public/news media.
Unfortunately, I therefore can't say to Shaw "Get to .500 next year or else your gone". Or else for Stanford may be a journey into the wilderness. I won't start that journey unless I think I see a way through.
RE: Stanford Football Head Coach--What Would You Do? - teejers1 - 11-29-2021
(11-29-2021, 12:14 PM)Goose Wrote: I would keep Shaw but continually evaluate his job performance. I would also examine my options. When I have what I think is a better alternative I would replace Shaw. This should always be the model, whether the coach has a "good" year or a "bad" year. When the coach has bad years, the threshold of "better alternative" naturally is lower.
I really don't place any stock in who he hires or who he fires per se. It is the result that counts. Re-arranging the deck chairs or even buying new deck chairs doesn't patch the hole in the hull. I also will evaluate his analysis of the problems and his proposed solutions/work-arounds. If I have questions he needs to have at least reasonable answers. I don't expect this discussion will be shared with the public/news media.
Unfortunately, I therefore can't say to Shaw "Get to .500 next year or else your gone". Or else for Stanford may be a journey into the wilderness. I won't start that journey unless I think I see a way through.
So because you don't have the next guy signed and sealed - who you believe is better than Shaw - then it's okay to continue on with the utter garbage we saw this season?
Okay . . . got it.
RE: Stanford Football Head Coach--What Would You Do? - BobK - 11-29-2021
Speaking for my self. I don’t want
Curtice
Dowhauer
Wiggin
Elway
Teevens
Harris
I also rather not have a three and done
RE: Stanford Football Head Coach--What Would You Do? - qwerty49 - 11-29-2021
I can’t respond to this poll as I think the problem starts with MTL and Drell. Just because Shaws position is endowed does not make him a tenured professor for gosh sakes.
OTOH maybe a “publish or perish” analogy is apt here.
RE: Stanford Football Head Coach--What Would You Do? - Austroturf - 11-29-2021
I vacillated between 1 and 3, but ultimately went for 3 (one more year to get back to at least 6-6 and a bowl game). Option 2 was not a choice for me, even though many have selected it. Why? The way I assess the situation, Shaw will not get back to a winning or break-even season if he does not make major changes, so it makes sense to put the onus on him without requiring changes upfront. Tell him what's expected, then let him work. If he stays the course and fails, he is gone. If he makes changes and fails, he is gone. If he makes changes or stays the course and succeeds, he has survived to fight another day.
However, I have a hard time believing he will make the changes, and that briefly tilted me toward 1, because any other option, in my view, just prolongs the current trough we are in. But though I agree Stanford doesn't "owe" Shaw anything, he should be given that one grace year to right the ship. Also, I would like to see Shaw with his back to the wall for once and see whether there is a fighter element in his make-up that we just haven't seen yet. Some people rise to the challenge thrown at them: win or die might just be the gantlet Shaw needs.
Of course, I don't expect 1, 2 or 3 to happen in any realistic scenario. Muir will continue to give Shaw a very long leash, at least another two seasons. If these come in at between 1-11 and 4-8, then Shaw will probably be asked to resign, but maybe by a new AD.
RE: Stanford Football Head Coach--What Would You Do? - JohnR34231 - 11-29-2021
(11-29-2021, 01:27 PM)Austroturf Wrote: I vacillated between 1 and 3, but ultimately went for 3 (one more year to get back to at least 6-6 and a bowl game). Option 2 was not a choice for me, even though many have selected it. Why? The way I assess the situation, Shaw will not get back to a winning or break-even season if he does not make major changes, so it makes sense to put the onus on him without requiring changes upfront. Tell him what's expected, then let him work. If he stays the course and fails, he is gone. If he makes changes and fails, he is gone. If he makes changes or stays the course and succeeds, he has survived to fight another day.
However, I have a hard time believing he will make the changes, and that briefly tilted me toward 1, because any other option, in my view, just prolongs the current trough we are in. But though I agree Stanford doesn't "owe" Shaw anything, he should be given that one grace year to right the ship. Also, I would like to see Shaw with his back to the wall for once and see whether there is a fighter element in his make-up that we just haven't seen yet. Some people rise to the challenge thrown at them: win or die might just be the gantlet Shaw needs.
Of course, I don't expect 1, 2 or 3 to happen in any realistic scenario. Muir will continue to give Shaw a very long leash, at least another two seasons. If these come in at between 1-11 and 4-8, then Shaw will probably be asked to resign, but maybe by a new AD.
I would tend to agree. Shaw will probably get two more seasons to right the ship, and if those are still 4-8, 3-9 types he will be asked to resign.
By somebody influential.
RE: Stanford Football Head Coach--What Would You Do? - teejers1 - 11-29-2021
(11-29-2021, 01:27 PM)Austroturf Wrote: Of course, I don't expect 1, 2 or 3 to happen in any realistic scenario. Muir will continue to give Shaw a very long leash, at least another two seasons. If these come in at between 1-11 and 4-8, then Shaw will probably be asked to resign, but maybe by a new AD.
This sounds exactly right.
We'll see what's left of the program after 2 more seasons like this one (or worse).
P.S. Can't help but notice the number of players that are following Riley to SC (transfers or decommits). How many Stanford players would follow Shaw to another college? We all know the answer to that question - and part of that is that Stanford has unique "stickiness." Of course, that makes the recent departures of 4th and 5th year players all the more alarming.
RE: Stanford Football Head Coach--What Would You Do? - TrumpCard - 11-29-2021
Option G: Fire myself and let Stanford hire a new AD who knows how to hire coaches for NCAA football and basketball.
If this can be done with sufficient alacrity, then my replacement AD could conduct a stealthy canvas of MBB candidates in time to hire someone new at the end of this season. Unfortunate that Harrison Ingrahm will be gone by the time a new coach gets the team though.
I don't think my replacement AD will have sufficient time to conduct the football coaching search this off-season as the best candidates will be gone soon. Just give Shaw leeway to decide how to proceed. Given the current trajectory of the program and the difficult circumstances for hiring new coaches, I anticipate that my replacement AD will be hiring a new coach in a year regardless of whether or not Shaw tries to overhaul his staff this winter.
RE: Stanford Football Head Coach--What Would You Do? - Snorlax94 - 11-29-2021
(11-29-2021, 03:15 PM)TrumpCard Wrote: Option G: Fire myself and let Stanford hire a new AD who knows how to hire coaches for NCAA football and basketball.I think as it's listed it's a false choice that creates angst with the constrained choices, but Option G (Hire a new AD) is the closest to my response.
But, to answer the question, if I were AD (or, if I was telling the President & Board what I'd want the AD to do):
I'd make it clear Stanford Football needs a new plan, and that the old ways -- and old compensation contracts -- need to change. And the new plan means to stop promoting from within, and that the compensation scheme needs to be adjusted. Stanford should NOT be among the top schools in the nation for paying a head coach -- but they SHOULD be the most aggressive school in the country to hire the right assistant coaches, starting with the Strength and Conditioning Coach. Would it surprise anyone that the colleges paying the most to get the best S&C coaches include Alabama, Ohio State and Oklahoma State, and one of the top-paid S&C coaches in the Pac-12 is at Utah?
I'm not opposed to hiring from within -- it has its place and its benefits -- but the problem is that Stanford clearly isn't getting the right people. Ironically, some of Shaw's greatest successes has been hiring experienced college coaches -- Alamar, Kennedy, Akina. And all the coaches we scream about were promoted and never held their current positions in college (Carroll, Reynolds, Pritchard, Anderson, and Hansen until he left).
I also think it's not just about scheme, but it's about people who can connect with young people. Maybe S&C Coach Carroll knows exactly what Shannon did on paper, but he doesn't do it the way Shannon did it. And anyone who's seen Randy Hart with his players knows it was both what he taught and HOW he taught it. Maybe Carroll, Pritchard, and Reynolds are all exceptionally knowledgeable and would be successful in the NFL, but their groups are weaknesses and these areas are not developing relative to the talent we recruit. (Actually, I get the feeling that some day in the future, after Pritchard has the opportunity to learn more about the running game and other aspects, he may some day be The One in the NFL).
And then I'd sit down with Shaw and go over the new plan, and discuss whether Shaw was the right person to do this at Stanford.
No football coach has won more games at Stanford, and Shaw has delivered multiple Rose Bowl victories. Unlike people like Muir (and ack! Willie Taggart), Shaw has shown he can succeed at the highest levels. And who knows -- maybe Shaw has been kicking and screaming for these changes for years but has been constrained by Muir.
But if I were AD, there would be a new plan for Stanford moving forward. It's not about how many years Stanford should hire Shaw -- it could be 0 and it could never end. The first action is to say there needs to be a new plan, and then you'd go figure out who the right person is to deliver that plan.
RE: Stanford Football Head Coach--What Would You Do? - Mick - 11-29-2021
Two options:
1) Get rid of Muir and kick Shaw upstairs to A/D. Have Shaw chair a committee to hire an incredible coach with otherworldly coordinators, assistants and an S&C coach the envy of the NCAA -- all of whom will recruit breathlessly and without conscious. EUTM, part 2.
2) Thank Coach Shaw for his successes over the years. Express concern about the meltdown in results and fan base. Ask Coach Shaw what he intends to do about it, stating that I'm assuming the pablum that emerged from his mouth during public interviews was to cover the alarm that he must genuinely feel over a program in free fall. And then either:
a) He states that there's no reason for alarm, that it wasn't pablum but his general feelings that the players failed the coaches and fans (and not the other way around), that the past three years were a blip, that Stanford football is close to greatness, and all that is needed is better execution by the players, at which point I would fire Coach Shaw for the cognitive dissociative break from reality that he is clearly experiencing; or,
b) He agrees with me, outlines in excruciating detail the problems with the program (which not coincidentally reflect my own perceptions of the program's issues). He promises to fire the existing coaching staff and S&C coach, outlines the candidates, and lists the strengths and weaknesses of each. None of the candidates are less than an "8" on the 1-10 recruiting scale. He lays out a step-by-step return-to-greatness plan, culminating in a 7-5 record next year, then 9-3 thereafter.
And in the very near future, they will recruit Siemon/Wyman-like linebackers, McColl/Moscrip/Thunderchicken-like DLs, Dalman/Reynolds/Taylor/Whitfield/DeCastro-like OLs, Lynch/Sherman/Cook/Barnes-like DBs, Elway/Brodie/Plunkett/Luck-like QBs, McCaffrey/Nevers/Muster/Gerhart/Love/Nelson-like RBs, Marecic-like FBs, Ertz-like TEs and Hill/Washington/Walters/Margerum/Lofton-like WRs, a Bailey-like Punter and a Toner/Ukropina/Harmon/Hopkins-like kicker.
RE: Stanford Football Head Coach--What Would You Do? - teejers1 - 11-29-2021
(11-29-2021, 04:24 PM)Snorlax94 Wrote:(11-29-2021, 03:15 PM)TrumpCard Wrote: Option G: Fire myself and let Stanford hire a new AD who knows how to hire coaches for NCAA football and basketball.I think as it's listed it's a false choice that creates angst with the constrained choices, but Option G (Hire a new AD) is the closest to my response.
But, to answer the question, if I were AD (or, if I was telling the President & Board what I'd want the AD to do):
I'd make it clear Stanford Football needs a new plan, and that the old ways -- and old compensation contracts -- need to change. And the new plan means to stop promoting from within, and that the compensation scheme needs to be adjusted. Stanford should NOT be among the top schools in the nation for paying a head coach -- but they SHOULD be the most aggressive school in the country to hire the right assistant coaches, starting with the Strength and Conditioning Coach. Would it surprise anyone that the colleges paying the most to get the best S&C coaches include Alabama, Ohio State and Oklahoma State, and one of the top-paid S&C coaches in the Pac-12 is at Utah?
I'm not opposed to hiring from within -- it has its place and its benefits -- but the problem is that Stanford clearly isn't getting the right people. I also think it's not just about scheme, but it's about people who can connect with young people. Maybe Shannon Turley's secret wasn't just the regimen that he put people on -- and maybe his replacement Carroll knows exactly what Shannon did on paper, but he doesn't do it the way Shannon did it. And anyone who's seen Randy Hart with his players knows it was both what he taught and HOW he taught it. Maybe Carroll, Pritchard, and Reynolds are all exceptionally knowledgeable and would be successful in the NFL, but they were all promoted and had never held their current positions in college before. (Actually, I get the feeling that some day in the future, after Pritchard has the opportunity to learn more about the running game and other aspects, he may some day be The One in the NFL).
And then I'd sit down with Shaw and go over the new plan, and discuss whether Shaw was the right person to do this at Stanford.
No football coach has won more games at Stanford, and Shaw has delivered multiple Rose Bowl victories. Unlike people like Muir (and ack! Willie Taggart), Shaw has shown he can succeed at the highest levels. And who knows -- maybe Shaw has been kicking and screaming for these changes for years but has been constrained by Muir.
But if I were AD, there would be a new plan for Stanford moving forward. It's not about how many years Stanford should hire Shaw -- that isn't the first or only action. The first action is to say there needs to be a new plan, and then you'd go figure out who the right person is to deliver that plan.
Good post, except for highlighted portion. Do you really think there is even a scintilla of a chance of that being the case? C'mon now . . .
RE: Stanford Football Head Coach--What Would You Do? - Bampa - 11-29-2021
[quote="Papa John" pid='336339' dateline='1638209444']
Congratulations! You have been appointed Athletic Director at Stanford!
Hire me. I will take the job at 15% of Shaw's salary.
I guarantee two things:
1 An exciting offense, that will keep the other team wondering what will come next.
2 The offense will definitely score more points.
Now, who wants to handle the defense?
RE: Stanford Football Head Coach--What Would You Do? - Row80Critic - 11-29-2021
Here's my biggest fear: Shaw sticks around next year after appointing Keller Chryst or someone similar as the new Coordinating Coach of Winningest Winning (because it's easier to add and not fire people), and then eeks out a 6-6 season and maybe an overtime win against Foothill College in the Pablum Bowl. Same Denny's menu; same three plays and the wildcat; same constipated-turtle mentality; same lack of intensity; same staggering predictability; same inability to distinguish the McKees and Wests of the world; same lofty off-field talk; same finger-pointing at 'execution' and 'opportunities' at press conferences; same bowling pin defense. Then what?
I think it's time for a change. The Harbaugh/Shaw era has been dead for several years now and this season was its memorial service. He's had at least 3 or 4 seasons to get better and all we hear are the same platitudes, and all we see is an increasingly bad football team. Penguins don't fly, no matter how many times they try. He'll be a great talking head on ESPN-- time to let our little penguin fly, err, walk.
RE: Stanford Football Head Coach--What Would You Do? - OutsiderFan - 11-29-2021
As someone with a little experience with board oversight and a CEO, I believe it is always preferable to give the CEO the opportunity to present a plan and hold the CEO accountable for executing it. Don't tell the CEO what to do, just make clear the expectations, or as Bill Walsh said, make the standard of performance clear and unambiguous.
You could tell Shaw he must reach a certain level of performance next year or he is gone, but he has already shown a startling lack of self-awareness and poor judgment that has led him to the point Stanford Football finds itself in now. The AD has to show concern about the program and do whatever can be done to limit the damage, when the guy in charge at the moment can do more damage without intervention.
This thread has been enlightening because it has mentioned the President of the university as having "blood on his hands" for the Football decline. This, to me, highlights the biggest problem Stanford has. Putting the pieces together it appears:
1. The President doesn't care, doesn't know how, and/or has not done anything to set Standards for the Athletic Department to meet
2. The AD has set no standards for any individual Stanford sports programs
3. The Head Coaches have no standards of performance
4. The Assistant Coaches have no standards of performance
5. The players have no standards of performance
6. Nobody is accountable for performance in any measurable way across the board
Sure, some programs may be led by coaches who are always hungry and reinventing themselves, with their own standards to be the best, and hold assistants accountable, while also helping them advance their careers. But it is also human nature to be complacent when there is no pressure to perform.
I can't tell you how many posts I have seen from Cal fans requesting this coach or that coach be fired, as some sort of panacea for all Cal Football fan frustrations. My reaction is always to look way higher in the organization for real reasons the team is performing poorly. Cal's brass simply doesn't care about winning in sports at the highest levels. This is why Cal has been so terrible for so long in so many sports with rare exceptions.
But Stanford has never had this dynamic. Stanford has always cared about winning in sports. The only way that happens is if it comes form the top. Either the President themself demand it, the school's benefactors do, or both. You don't win Directors Cups without giving a sh*t at the top. You don't get Rose Bowls or Final Fours, make College World Series, etc. when you are indifferent.
Right now, Stanford seems to be rudderless when it comes to sports leadership, and no program is epitomizing that more than the Football program.