Outside Topic Historic Formula 1 Championship - Printable Version
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Historic Formula 1 Championship - OutsiderFan - 12-11-2021
Even if the only other poster interested is Phogge...
Wow. Max Verstappen who is seeking his first World Driving Championship, took pole position at Abu Dhabi over 7-time champion Lewis Hamilton, with the drivers tied for the points lead going into the final race of the season! All the experts figured Hamilton - on such a tear lately including last week's win at Saudi Arabia Grand Prix - would win pole and be the guy to beat, but nope, Verstappen and team Red Bull had a few tricks up their sleeve.
Still, Verstappen is on soft tires and Hamilton on mediums, so different race strategies. I don't know if you could ever have a more tightly contested championship deciding race than this. It was funny to hear 3rd place qualifier Lando Norris say he's not gonna get too involved for the push to get ahead in the first lap after the lights go out, saying he doesn't want to get involved with that fight! The start anticipation will be unlike anything ever seen. And anything can happen. Hamilton could get jump and take lead, Verstappen could lose position and get it back in first lap, one or both could go off the course, they could touch. Or maybe Lewis could let Max jump ahead as part of his strategy. It's kind of like starting a football game from 4th and 2 in your opponent's territory. Don't waste any time getting to the urgency of now!
The strategy, gamesmanship, and pure level of risk-taking in terms of trying to pass each other, will make for some epic drama throughout the race. Will the soft tires last long enough to build a lead that can enable a seamless switch to mediums? Will Hamilton's mediums force Verstappen to come in early? Will he go with hard tires and hope they provide enough speed to stay ahead for rest of race on one stop? Will track position or fresher tires be the key? How can their Mercedes (Bottas) and Red Bull (Perez) teammates be used? What role might a safety car play?
I'm rooting for Max, but Lewis is such a great driver, noble competitor, and awesome ambassador for the sport that if he manages to win, you just have your mind blown and respect his greatness even more. It's all just so fascinating if you enjoy the strategy of sports competition in addition to the visual eye candy of it.
To those who could be coaxed into watching...
Two great drivers tied for the lead going into the final Formula 1 race of the season. It might not ever happen again, so if you have even the slightest interest in Formula 1, or just love to watch great competitions for the human drama and inspiration, definitely tune in or DVR the race on ESPN at 8am ET Sunday morning!
RE: Historic Formula 1 Championship - 82lsju - 12-11-2021
the "best" widely available F1 movies
- Grand Prix (watch the special features for interviews with drivers from the 50s and 60s when the sport was much more deadly than today)
- Rush
- Senna
RE: Historic Formula 1 Championship - OutsiderFan - 12-11-2021
The Senna doc was captivating. It re-ignited my F1 interest after viewing it in 2017.
The movie Rush is pretty good.
Will have to check out Grand Prix.
RE: Historic Formula 1 Championship - dabigv13 - 12-11-2021
Max is a bit of a dbag, but I want him to win just because I'm tired of Mercedes always winning, even though I do like Lewis.
A bit conflicted but excited for what should be quite a race. Just hoping they both go the distance and Max doesn't crash them both out a la Senna and Prost in 1990.
RE: Historic Formula 1 Championship - 82lsju - 12-11-2021
(12-11-2021, 09:47 AM)OutsiderFan Wrote: The Senna doc was captivating. It re-ignited my F1 interest after viewing it in 2017.
The movie Rush is pretty good.
Will have to check out Grand Prix.
another good F1 movie is the movie "1 The Movie (Formula 1)"
RE: Historic Formula 1 Championship - OutsiderFan - 12-11-2021
(12-11-2021, 09:52 AM)dabigv13 Wrote: Max is a bit of a dbag, but I want him to win just because I'm tired of Mercedes always winning, even though I do like Lewis.
A bit conflicted but excited for what should be quite a race. Just hoping they both go the distance and Max doesn't crash them both out a la Senna and Prost in 1990.
So agree with both statements. Just don't want to see another version of this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oIKel6jVD3Q
or this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_VSwwZYDW94
Although if they are both out, Max will win the championship with more individual race wins tie-breaker.
RE: Historic Formula 1 Championship - 82lsju - 12-11-2021
(12-11-2021, 11:17 AM)82lsju Wrote:(12-11-2021, 09:47 AM)OutsiderFan Wrote: The Senna doc was captivating. It re-ignited my F1 interest after viewing it in 2017.
The movie Rush is pretty good.
Will have to check out Grand Prix.
another good F1 movie is the movie "1 The Movie (Formula 1)"
another good movie on Netflix is
A Life of Speed: The Juan Manuel Fangio Story
which helped convince me that he's the best F1 driver ever
he drove in a period when a lot less cars finished races and he still
- won 46% of the races he entered
- won five drivers championships (in eight seasons) with four different teams, he also finished second twice in the drivers championship
RE: Historic Formula 1 Championship - TheSquatch - 12-11-2021
This is by far the most exciting season of F1 I've ever seen. After last weeks carnage/gamesmanship, this last race will be riveting! The tire choices are adding just that much more. Love it.
Along with great F1 movies, Drive to Survive on Netflix has done more for the sport in the US than anything ever. It's finally getting mainstream-ish in the US.
RE: Historic Formula 1 Championship - BostonCard - 12-11-2021
(12-11-2021, 11:39 AM)82lsju Wrote:(12-11-2021, 11:17 AM)82lsju Wrote:(12-11-2021, 09:47 AM)OutsiderFan Wrote: The Senna doc was captivating. It re-ignited my F1 interest after viewing it in 2017.
The movie Rush is pretty good.
Will have to check out Grand Prix.
another good F1 movie is the movie "1 The Movie (Formula 1)"
another good movie on Netflix is
A Life of Speed: The Juan Manuel Fangio Story
which helped convince me that he's the best F1 driver ever
he drove in a period when a lot less cars finished races and he still
- won 46% of the races he entered
- won five drivers championships (in eight seasons) with four different teams, he also finished second twice in the drivers championship
The Economist’s mathematical model agrees that Fangio is the best ever…
[tweet]https://twitter.com/theeconomist/status/1317590971962544128?s=21[/tweet]
The issue for Schumacher and Hamilton is that their cars are (or were) substantially better than the competition, especially Mercedes in the case of Hamilton. Back in Fangio’s day, the drivers made much more of a difference (58% of the effect, versus only about 20% now days).
BC
RE: Historic Formula 1 Championship - TheSquatch - 12-11-2021
(12-11-2021, 02:30 PM)BostonCard Wrote:(12-11-2021, 11:39 AM)82lsju Wrote:(12-11-2021, 11:17 AM)82lsju Wrote:(12-11-2021, 09:47 AM)OutsiderFan Wrote: The Senna doc was captivating. It re-ignited my F1 interest after viewing it in 2017.
The movie Rush is pretty good.
Will have to check out Grand Prix.
another good F1 movie is the movie "1 The Movie (Formula 1)"
another good movie on Netflix is
A Life of Speed: The Juan Manuel Fangio Story
which helped convince me that he's the best F1 driver ever
he drove in a period when a lot less cars finished races and he still
- won 46% of the races he entered
- won five drivers championships (in eight seasons) with four different teams, he also finished second twice in the drivers championship
The Economist’s mathematical model agrees that Fangio is the best ever…
[tweet]https://twitter.com/theeconomist/status/1317590971962544128?s=21[/tweet]
The issue for Schumacher and Hamilton is that their cars are (or were) substantially better than the competition, especially Mercedes in the case of Hamilton. Back in Fangio’s day, the drivers made much more of a difference (58% of the effect, versus only about 20% now days).
BC
I agree that Fangio is the best ever, along with the comments about Michael and Lewis. But back in Fangio's day, drivers could jump from team to team each year depending on who had the best equipment. Of course, you had to be the best driver to get that drive. Hence his 5 championships, in 7 years, with 4 different manufactures.
RE: Historic Formula 1 Championship - 82lsju - 12-11-2021
(12-11-2021, 08:42 PM)TheSquatch Wrote:(12-11-2021, 02:30 PM)BostonCard Wrote:(12-11-2021, 11:39 AM)82lsju Wrote:(12-11-2021, 11:17 AM)82lsju Wrote:(12-11-2021, 09:47 AM)OutsiderFan Wrote: The Senna doc was captivating. It re-ignited my F1 interest after viewing it in 2017.
The movie Rush is pretty good.
Will have to check out Grand Prix.
another good F1 movie is the movie "1 The Movie (Formula 1)"
another good movie on Netflix is
A Life of Speed: The Juan Manuel Fangio Story
which helped convince me that he's the best F1 driver ever
he drove in a period when a lot less cars finished races and he still
- won 46% of the races he entered
- won five drivers championships (in eight seasons) with four different teams, he also finished second twice in the drivers championship
The Economist’s mathematical model agrees that Fangio is the best ever…
[tweet]https://twitter.com/theeconomist/status/1317590971962544128?s=21[/tweet]
The issue for Schumacher and Hamilton is that their cars are (or were) substantially better than the competition, especially Mercedes in the case of Hamilton. Back in Fangio’s day, the drivers made much more of a difference (58% of the effect, versus only about 20% now days).
BC
I agree that Fangio is the best ever, along with the comments about Michael and Lewis. But back in Fangio's day, drivers could jump from team to team each year depending on who had the best equipment. Of course, you had to be the best driver to get that drive. Hence his 5 championships, in 7 years, with 4 different manufactures.
and teams would dump drivers mid-season, along with the drivers who died necessitating changes
Fangio won one of his championships (1954) driving for two teams, three races for Maserati (two wins) and six races for Daimler Benz (four wins)
RE: Historic Formula 1 Championship - Phogge - 12-11-2021
A lot of people think that Jimmy Clark was the best ever.
4:55am on ESPN 2.
RE: Historic Formula 1 Championship - OutsiderFan - 12-12-2021
Most board members are likely asleep, but it's go time!
I have NO CLUE what to expect. I will guess the start and first lap isn't going to be contested like it will decide the championship. Lewis will not take any risks knowing he's got a bit of f tire advantage, but I know nothing...
RE: Historic Formula 1 Championship - OutsiderFan - 12-12-2021
RE: Historic Formula 1 Championship - Phogge - 12-12-2021
MAX!!!
RE: Historic Formula 1 Championship - Langdude - 12-12-2021
Any opinions on the re-start and allowing lapped cars to catch up? I am afraid I don't understand F1 rules well enough to form an opinion...
-m.
RE: Historic Formula 1 Championship - 82lsju - 12-12-2021
(12-11-2021, 09:59 PM)Phogge Wrote: A lot of people think that Jimmy Clark was the best ever.
4:55am on ESPN 2.
I think he was 2nd best, but if he had not died in an accident when he was 32 the story might be different....
RE: Historic Formula 1 Championship - Phogge - 12-12-2021
Maybe OF can chime in on the restart.
Accidents are the curse of motor racing. Phil Vukovich was killed while leading and on his way to an historic three peat at Indy. Who knows how many he would have won.
Graham Hill miraculously made it through the pack on lap one of the 500 on the opening lap and went on to win. Then he died in a plane crash.
Senna, Clark... who knows.
RE: Historic Formula 1 Championship - OutsiderFan - 12-12-2021
First, before anything else, how about that effort by Perez to slow up Hamilton so teammate Verstappen could catch up. Who knows if it ended up meaning anything, but that was damn impressive.
If there was no re-start and a close race, people would be griping about Hamilton not having to give the position back on the lap 1 incident. As it was, with an 11 sec. lead before the safety car, it was obvious Hamilton's car was faster. That leads me to the re-start controversy.
In sports, and in particular on this board, one of the greatest areas of debate is playing it safe when you have a lead, or continuing to be aggressive even when in the lead. Regardless of anything else, Mercedes had a choice to hold track position or be willing to give it up to ensure having the faster car in a re-started race. They chose track position. You can't have it both ways. It just so happens, they choose the wrong own. It happens all the time in racing. That's just part of it and one reason it is so compelling. How many times do we see guys gambling with tire choice in wet conditions? Norris lost a race he would have won this year by being aggressive staying on slicks, only to slide all over the place and be forced on to intermediates after losing the lead.
I'm convinced that if Hamilton came in for soft tires when Verstappen did, even if Verstappen had taken the lead as a result, that Hamilton would have been able to pass him in a similar manner Max passed Lewis. But I think Mercedes screwed up by not coming in for new tires when the virtual safety car was turned on.
As for the regulations and decision to only allow 5 cars to un-lap themselves, I don't know. The last thing you want is for races to end under caution conditions. I believe - but am not certain - NASCAR red flags races when there are incidents in final laps. I believe the best course of action would have been to red flag the race and have another standing re-start. That would have given all cars opportunity for new tires, evened the playing field, and left as many laps of racing possible. Now, those re-starts at ends of races can create even more incidents, but I think you need to try to keep the competition decided on the track as much as possible.
RE: Historic Formula 1 Championship - dabigv13 - 12-12-2021
The problem with F1 is they seemingly make up the regulations as they go. They seemed to go down in the favor of letting the race end on the track, and I'm glad they did. Red Bull certainly fortunate for the Latifi crash, but I thought the initial ruling to let Hamilton stay ahead after going off track when Max beat him to apex was harsh on RB.
Lewis had the better car, Max drove better most of the season IMHO, and got lucky at the end, but I think it was not unfair for him to win. Listening to Masi tell Wolf to pound sand was pretty lovely.
Max owes Checo a nice big yacht or something. Best driving of day was from Checo fighting Hamilton.