OT: Killian unloads on the NFL

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OT: Killian unloads on the NFL - Phogge - 03-22-2022

Today's Chronicle.

Among the paragraphs: "The 22 women said that the NFL investigators were more insulting than the police."

A women's Cleveland Watson jersey is selling on the Brown's website for $119.

RE: OT: Killian unloads on the NFL - teejers1 - 03-22-2022

(03-22-2022, 09:43 AM)Phogge Wrote: Today's Chronicle.

Among the paragraphs: "The 22 women said that the NFL investigators were more insulting than the police."

A women's Cleveland Watson jersey is selling on the Brown's website for $119.

The fact that the grand jury did not indict is significant. Whatever witnesses testified in that proceeding must not have been particularly convincing - admittedly for a higher standard than in a civil case.

Watson should really settle the civil cases asap. That will allow the storm to blow over on a quicker timetable.

The NFL still has to suspend him for some number of games. You can't discredit 22 complaints - no matter how many assurances plaintiffs' lawyers may have given those women, people do not "willy nilly" make false accusations/perjure themselves.

The most damning thing I heard was of a woman who relayed to SI that she, too, had been a Watson victim - provided corroborating evidence to SI - but didn't want to sue.

Watson is undoubtedly a talented QB.

He is also, in all likelihood, a POS as a person. And I will root against the Browns for as long as that guy takes snaps there.

RE: OT: Killian unloads on the NFL - burger - 03-22-2022

(03-22-2022, 11:58 AM)teejers1 Wrote:
(03-22-2022, 09:43 AM)Phogge Wrote: Today's Chronicle.

Among the paragraphs: "The 22 women said that the NFL investigators were more insulting than the police."

A women's Cleveland Watson jersey is selling on the Brown's website for $119.
The fact that the grand jury did not indict is significant. Whatever witnesses testified in that proceeding must not have been particularly convincing - admittedly for a higher standard than in a civil case.

That's a pretty bad take. There are loads of examples of clear crimes where a grand jury did not indict.

I'm not saying that Watson is guilty or innocent. Just that "not being prosecuted" is miles removed from "actually innocent."

RE: OT: Killian unloads on the NFL - teejers1 - 03-22-2022

(03-22-2022, 12:08 PM)burger Wrote:
(03-22-2022, 11:58 AM)teejers1 Wrote:
(03-22-2022, 09:43 AM)Phogge Wrote: Today's Chronicle.

Among the paragraphs: "The 22 women said that the NFL investigators were more insulting than the police."

A women's Cleveland Watson jersey is selling on the Brown's website for $119.
The fact that the grand jury did not indict is significant. Whatever witnesses testified in that proceeding must not have been particularly convincing - admittedly for a higher standard than in a civil case.

That's a pretty bad take. There are loads of examples of clear crimes where a grand jury did not indict.

I'm not saying that Watson is guilty or innocent. Just that "not being prosecuted" is miles removed from "actually innocent."

Okay, berger, whatever you say. (Ham sandwiches may want a word).

https://slate.com/human-interest/2014/11/sol-wachtler-the-judge-who-coined-indict-a-ham-sandwich-was-himself-indicted.html

So is your "loads of examples," are prosecutors intentionally trying to aid guilty criminals from facing trial, or are they just incompetent?

RE: OT: Killian unloads on the NFL - Goose - 03-22-2022

(03-22-2022, 12:32 PM)teejers1 Wrote: So is your "loads of examples," are prosecutors intentionally trying to aid guilty criminals from facing trial, or are they just incompetent?

Not being indited doesn't mean you are innocent, it rather means the Grand Jury or the prosecutor decided your guilt couldn't be proved beyond reasonable doubt. Many people who are "probably" guilty don't get indited because they are not provably guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. That is how the system is supposed to work.
It is often stated that where there is smoke, there is fire. I don't necessarily subscribe to that theory. Sometimes there is, but also sometimes there isn't. I would like to see the civil case against Watson go to trial. Then we can all meaningfully decide if indeed there was misconduct. Probably will not happen and everybody involved on either "side" will end up with a somewhat tainted reputation.

RE: OT: Killian unloads on the NFL - gailtate - 03-22-2022

(03-22-2022, 01:29 PM)Goose Wrote:
(03-22-2022, 12:32 PM)teejers1 Wrote: So is your "loads of examples," are prosecutors intentionally trying to aid guilty criminals from facing trial, or are they just incompetent?
Not being indited doesn't mean you are innocent, it rather means the Grand Jury or the prosecutor decided your guilt couldn't be proved beyond reasonable doubt. Many people who are "probably" guilty don't get indited because they are not provably guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. That is how the system is supposed to work.
It is often stated that where there is smoke, there is fire. I don't necessarily subscribe to that theory. Sometimes there is, but also sometimes there isn't. I would like to see the civil case against Watson go to trial. Then we can all meaningfully decide if indeed there was misconduct. Probably will not happen and everybody involved on either "side" will end up with a somewhat tainted reputation.

Twenty-two women accusing this guy? Semen on their clothing? Hardly smoke! Them there are flames, man. Maybe not Bill Cosby scale (60) but...

lex24 - lex24 - 03-22-2022

(03-22-2022, 01:29 PM)Goose Wrote:
(03-22-2022, 12:32 PM)teejers1 Wrote: So is your "loads of examples," are prosecutors intentionally trying to aid guilty criminals from facing trial, or are they just incompetent?
Not being indited doesn't mean you are innocent, it rather means the Grand Jury or the prosecutor decided your guilt couldn't be proved beyond reasonable doubt. Many people who are "probably" guilty don't get indited because they are not provably guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. That is how the system is supposed to work.
It is often stated that where there is smoke, there is fire. I don't necessarily subscribe to that theory. Sometimes there is, but also sometimes there isn't. I would like to see the civil case against Watson go to trial. Then we can all meaningfully decide if indeed there was misconduct. Probably will not happen and everybody involved on either "side" will end up with a somewhat tainted reputation.

It’s not hard to get a Grand Jury to indite. As once was said “you can indite a ham sandwich.” Further, the standard to indite at the Federal level and, In most jurisdictions (including Texas) is “probable cause” not “beyond a reasonable doubt”.

RE: OT: Killian unloads on the NFL - OutsiderFan - 03-22-2022

The Watson case can be summarized pretty succinctly, IMO.

Watson used his "power" as star QB to gain sexual favors without creating evidence he broke criminal laws.

The absence of this evidence does not mean he is innocent, and even if innocent of criminal charges, you can't go to prison for being an asshole.

But you can be guilty of civil claims as a result of threatening or unwelcome behavior that creates stress and puts women's livelihoods at risk.*

* Most states including Texas have laws against sexual activity during massage surface, and even laws that dictate how one's body must be covered during a massage.

Read this for insight into Watson's behavior: https://www.si.com/nfl/2021/03/29/first-hand-story-of-deshaun-watson-inappropriate-behavior-not-in-lawsuit

RE: OT: Killian unloads on the NFL - cardcrimson - 03-22-2022

(03-22-2022, 11:58 AM)teejers1 Wrote: people do not "willy nilly" make false accusations/perjure themselves.

Thanks for the laugh. . . .

RE: OT: Killian unloads on the NFL - gailtate - 03-22-2022

(03-22-2022, 09:43 AM)Phogge Wrote: Today's Chronicle.

Among the paragraphs: "The 22 women said that the NFL investigators were more insulting than the police."

A women's Cleveland Watson jersey is selling on the Brown's website for $119.

Hey, I love Killion (she and Ostler are the reasons I still subscribe to Pravda-by-the-Bay) but she weakens her points by invoking Kaepernick -- who would be playing...IF he had the chops and wanted to play. But even if he played, the NFL could still school the Holy See when it comes to unmitigated hypocrisy. From its virtue-signaling woke buzz-words on helmets to the pink this or that on shoes and jerseys.

RE: lex24 - Goose - 03-22-2022

(03-22-2022, 02:33 PM)lex24 Wrote: It’s not hard to get a Grand Jury to indite. As once was said “you can indite a ham sandwich.” Further, the standard to indite at the Federal level and, In most jurisdictions (including Texas) is “probable cause” not “beyond a reasonable doubt”.

It is indeed often easy to indite somebody. However, there is no point in doing so if you can't possibly convict them. Prosecutors know this, and sometimes so do Grand Juries. As others point out, Watson may not be criminally responsible and still be liable for damage in civil court. He may even not have civil liability and still be morally reprehensible. If being reprehensible is a disqualifying attribute, probably 20% of the NFL is in that category IMHO.

RE: OT: Killian unloads on the NFL - teejers1 - 03-22-2022

(03-22-2022, 02:42 PM)cardcrimson Wrote:
(03-22-2022, 11:58 AM)teejers1 Wrote: people do not "willy nilly" make false accusations/perjure themselves.

Thanks for the laugh. . . .

1. Did you read the SI article (relaying experience of one woman who is not a plaintiff)?

2. Do you believe all 22 women are just making up the accusations of unwanted sexual-related activities by Watson? Even half of them?

I could believe one or two or even 5 doing that. But 22? C'mon, man . . .

RE: OT: Killian unloads on the NFL - JustAnotherFan - 03-22-2022

An indictment almost always comes down to what the prosecutor wants. They get to present what they want to present. If it is a cop crime often they can choose to softball it and make that clear to the grand jury. "We took it to the grand jury ... they decided to not indict the killer cop." It's their way out. For almost everyone else (who isn't rich or powerful) the grand jury will usually go with what the prosecutors wants. If it's really bad behavior by prosecutors then the grand jury could even indict on charges that were never filed. Whether or not someone gets indicted is hardly convincing one way or the other as pertains to their potential guilt.

Anyway, I am glad I am not a Cleveland fan. The only thing worse when it comes to quarterbacks may be being a Steelers Fan.

RE: OT: Killian unloads on the NFL - Phogge - 03-22-2022

Of course when Jerry Rice got busted he was just there for a massage.

RE: OT: Killian unloads on the NFL - DC 86 - 03-22-2022

(03-22-2022, 06:05 PM)Phogge Wrote: Of course when Jerry Rice got busted he was just there for a massage.

The MV Spa.

RE: OT: Killian unloads on the NFL - teejers1 - 03-23-2022

(03-22-2022, 06:05 PM)Phogge Wrote: Of course when Jerry Rice got busted he was just there for a massage.

you left out "deep tissue" - it was a "deep tissue massage," iirc.

RE: OT: Killian unloads on the NFL - cardcrimson - 03-23-2022

(03-22-2022, 04:39 PM)teejers1 Wrote:
(03-22-2022, 02:42 PM)cardcrimson Wrote:
(03-22-2022, 11:58 AM)teejers1 Wrote: people do not "willy nilly" make false accusations/perjure themselves.

Thanks for the laugh. . . .

1. Did you read the SI article (relaying experience of one woman who is not a plaintiff)?

2. Do you believe all 22 women are just making up the accusations of unwanted sexual-related activities by Watson? Even half of them?

I could believe one or two or even 5 doing that. But 22? C'mon, man . . .

Wasn't referring to the article at all. The list is long and distinguished of those who've made stuff up and perjured themselves with false accusations. See Jussie Smollett, Shari Papini, and most of the bureaucrats in DC.

RE: OT: Killian unloads on the NFL - fullmetal - 03-23-2022

Meanwhile, Tyreek Hill gets a four year contract extension worth $120 mil ($72 mil guaranteed) with the Dolphins in exchange for five draft picks.

https://www.sportscasting.com/tyreek-hill-brutally-beat-and-choked-his-pregnant-girlfriend-in-college-but-never-saw-any-jail-time/

RE: OT: Killian unloads on the NFL - burger - 03-23-2022

(03-23-2022, 11:06 AM)cardcrimson Wrote:
(03-22-2022, 04:39 PM)teejers1 Wrote:
(03-22-2022, 02:42 PM)cardcrimson Wrote:
(03-22-2022, 11:58 AM)teejers1 Wrote: people do not "willy nilly" make false accusations/perjure themselves.

Thanks for the laugh. . . .

1. Did you read the SI article (relaying experience of one woman who is not a plaintiff)?

2. Do you believe all 22 women are just making up the accusations of unwanted sexual-related activities by Watson? Even half of them?

I could believe one or two or even 5 doing that. But 22? C'mon, man . . .

Wasn't referring to the article at all. The list is long and distinguished of those who've made stuff up and perjured themselves with false accusations. See Jussie Smollett, Shari Papini, and most of the bureaucrats in DC.

It's no wonder women won't report sexual assaults and, when reported, prosecutors won't prosecute. They end up with someone like cardcrimson on the jury. It only takes one to let a rapist walk free.

RE: OT: Killian unloads on the NFL - teejers1 - 03-23-2022

(03-23-2022, 11:48 AM)burger Wrote:
(03-23-2022, 11:06 AM)cardcrimson Wrote:
(03-22-2022, 04:39 PM)teejers1 Wrote:
(03-22-2022, 02:42 PM)cardcrimson Wrote:
(03-22-2022, 11:58 AM)teejers1 Wrote: people do not "willy nilly" make false accusations/perjure themselves.

Thanks for the laugh. . . .

1. Did you read the SI article (relaying experience of one woman who is not a plaintiff)?

2. Do you believe all 22 women are just making up the accusations of unwanted sexual-related activities by Watson? Even half of them?

I could believe one or two or even 5 doing that. But 22? C'mon, man . . .

Wasn't referring to the article at all. The list is long and distinguished of those who've made stuff up and perjured themselves with false accusations. See Jussie Smollett, Shari Papini, and most of the bureaucrats in DC.

It's no wonder women won't report sexual assaults and, when reported, prosecutors won't prosecute. They end up with someone like cardcrimson on the jury. It only takes one to let a rapist walk free.

C'mon, man. That's out of line.