Shaw back on NFL Draft telecast

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Shaw back on NFL Draft telecast - msqueri - 04-06-2022

Shaw's going to do the draft coverage again. There was a time I was supportive of this and then a time I was agnostic but now I'm hostile to it. Our head coach, following a disastrous season, is taking significant time out of his schedule to prepare for and then participate in a telecast so that he can speak for like 20 minutes, almost entirely about players that have nothing to do with Stanford football, for an audience of 1-2 million people (about a million fewer people than watched last year's Notre Dame or Oregon games).

The issue here is opportunity cost. He's said he watched film for two weeks to prepare for this. Given our spring ball ending this weekend and his draft night time to shine before the cameras being April 28, we now know what a big chunk of Shaw's time the rest of April post-spring game is going to be focused on. As a general proposition, I view Shaw's job responsibilities, salary, management challenges, and hole he needs to dig out of for his program as substantial enough that all of it warrants an intense, more than full-time focus on his actual job (which this NFL photo op has some relation to but is pretty tenuous and exaggerated).

Even putting that aside, there is a lot of recruiting to do in April that I wish had his undivided attention. The evaluation period runs from April 15-May 31. An evaluation period is when coaches can visit high schools "to assess the academic qualifications and playing ability of prospective student-athletes." It's not as much recruiting crunch time as a contact period as the coaches aren't supposed to have in-person conversations with recruits or their family members beyond "an exchange of a greeting" but it's still important time on the road. To put it in perspective, we've been in a quiet or dead period since January 30. The bottom line is the April 15-April 28 period when Shaw will be thinking a lot/watching a lot of film for his tv appearance is an important one on the recruiting calendar. But it's not only the evaluation period that makes this an important part of the recruiting calendar. Schools are allowed to host official visits starting April 1. April is the first month of the year in which phone calls can be made at the institution's discretion (as opposed to once a week or not at all). And of course there is always the work of evaluating prospects for potential offers and building the board for not only the 2023 recruiting class but also the 2024 class, activity that is allowed year-round and never sleeps and presumably is a lot easier for the coaches to do when they're not in the midst of practices with the team.....a time like what Shaw will have starting next week.

Not a fan of Shaw taking his eye off his recruiting responsibilities. This isn't an issue of walking and chewing gum at the same time. It's a matter of priorities and what he chooses to carve time out for....and what he doesn't. There are only so many hours in the day and only so many days in the year in which he's allowed to spend his time on certain recruiting tasks. The one way in which it's similar to walking and chewing gum at the same time is that the chewing gum part of what he wants to do (the NFL draft appearance) is completely elective and superfluous. It's fine to get that nice flavor and satisfying action if it doesn't have any adverse impact on the more fundamental aspect of the day-to-day, less so if your brain works such that you have to divide hours in the day between the walking and the chewing. Shaw is going to be able to walk (recruit) less far because he's doing this NFL draft work.

RE: Shaw back on NFL Draft telecast - McKenwood - 04-06-2022

One of the reasons I'm dubious about Shaw turning the program/team around is his misplaced priorities. He still doesn't place enough emphasis on recruiting both by him personally and his coaches.

Last season a former Stanford player spotted Shaw at the Sacred Heart Prep/King's Academy game. This game was during Stanford's bye week. Shaw's son plays for SHP so Coach Shaw was there to see him play.

This former player, who knows Shaw pretty well, was pissed that he was attending this game. He was so pissed he didn't even acknowledge Shaw when they walked by each other. By his way of thinking Shaw could have been at as many as four high school games that day (in the Bay Area or elsewhere) evaluating players for Stanford or least making his presence known to players that Stanford is recruiting.

I asked the former player about attending his son's games. He said do it during a home game when Shaw could sneak away for an hour or two but bye weeks are too valuable from a recuriting standpoint to have the head coach sitting at home. When you are the head coach of a major college program you do have to make some sacrifices.

RE: Shaw back on NFL Draft telecast - BostonCard - 04-06-2022

Good post, Matt. I agree that given the current circumstances, the opportunity costs of him spending time on preparation for the draft analysis exceeds the benefit in terms of exposure. Early in his career, having him associated with the NFL was a good thing, but at this point he is a well-known entity and focusing on recruiting or an offensive or defensive revamp, etc., makes much more sense.

On attending his kid’s high school football game, I am hardly going to fault him for that. The man is not going to reflect on his deathbed and think, “man, I should have spent more time recruiting and less time with my kids.” For that matter, none of us are going to look back and say that our lives would have been so much more fulfilling had Stanford gone 8-4 instead of 4-8.

BC

RE: Shaw back on NFL Draft telecast - cardcrimson - 04-06-2022

(04-06-2022, 01:40 PM)BostonCard Wrote: On attending his kid’s high school football game, I am hardly going to fault him for that. The man is not going to reflect on his deathbed and think, “man, I should have spent more time recruiting and less time with my kids.” For that matter, none of us are going to look back and say that our lives would have been so much more fulfilling had Stanford gone 8-4 instead of 4-8.

BC

Big difference in perspective. We don't get paid $9 million per to go 8-4 instead of 4-8. Shaw does.

RE: Shaw back on NFL Draft telecast - BostonCard - 04-06-2022

We are not paying him to be a bad father just to marginally improve our football record.

BC

RE: Shaw back on NFL Draft telecast - Maple Leaf - 04-06-2022

And Muir is ok with this? Geez! Hope that Muir is telling Shaw that the NFL needs to fund the Men's Underwater Dance Team, which I am sure is worth big points towards the Muir's pension.

RE: Shaw back on NFL Draft telecast - msqueri - 04-06-2022

I wouldn't call missing a game to attend to important work responsibilities that put millions of dollars in the family's pockets being a bad father.

David Shaw has worked out an amazing gig for himself where he gets paid like coaches who work ungodly hours with incessant scrutiny and the seeming weight of the world on them from their communities/stakeholders and who will be unceremoniously fired if they put together a three year stretch like Shaw just has, yet without any of those requirements to work hard or be subjected to a lot of scrutiny or pressure, and certainly without the accountability any other coach of that level of remuneration receives. I don't think it's too much to ask him to work on a bye weekend during the season.

For what it's worth, we went 3-9 last year, not 4-8. While the difference between 3-9 and 8-4 may not be something a single, well-balanced individual would have as a major factor in their life fulfillment on their deathbed, that doesn't strike me as the salient point. The point is that the difference between 3-9 and 8-4, aggregated over all of our players, fans, etc. is meaningful. Shaw gets paid the big bucks because he and his success mean a lot to the university community. What he does is not trivial for the community. If it were it would be appalling for Stanford to pay him what it does (or even to have a major college football program).

RE: Shaw back on NFL Draft telecast - cardcrimson - 04-06-2022

(04-06-2022, 02:24 PM)BostonCard Wrote: We are not paying him to be a bad father just to marginally improve our football record.

BC

Missing a game for work is being a bad father? Man, I must suck as a father. So did my dad, apparently. And neither of us got paid $9 mil per year. I am truly befuddled by the apparent "norms" of today's society.

RE: Shaw back on NFL Draft telecast - msqueri - 04-06-2022

(04-06-2022, 03:00 PM)cardcrimson Wrote:
(04-06-2022, 02:24 PM)BostonCard Wrote: We are not paying him to be a bad father just to marginally improve our football record.

BC

Missing a game for work is being a bad father? Man, I must suck as a father. So did my dad, apparently. And neither of us got paid $9 mil per year. I am truly befuddled by the apparent "norms" of today's society.

I'm doubtful that Shaw's work-life balance is either normal or reflective of norms in either his professional (top-tier Power Five head coaches) or geographic (Silicon Valley) milieus.

RE: Shaw back on NFL Draft telecast - teejers1 - 04-06-2022

(04-06-2022, 03:00 PM)cardcrimson Wrote:
(04-06-2022, 02:24 PM)BostonCard Wrote: We are not paying him to be a bad father just to marginally improve our football record.

BC

Missing a game for work is being a bad father? Man, I must suck as a father. So did my dad, apparently. And neither of us got paid $9 mil per year. I am truly befuddled by the apparent "norms" of today's society.

And my first reaction was "we're paying him $7 million/year to only "marginally" improve our football record? Damn, we've been 4-8 and 3-9 in last real seasons (and were a bad team when 4-2 during Covid). For $7M per, I'd think we'd want more than "marginal" improvement on that.

But what do I know, as an obviously bad father . . .

RE: Shaw back on NFL Draft telecast - needle - 04-06-2022

Respectfully, I think the OP is way off on this one.

Kids who can truly ball out want to be constantly reassured that their school is going to prepare them for The League.

Shaw no doubt presents this gig as proof to kids that he knows what he's doing in that regard.

I get the opportunity costs argument, but if recruiting is a lot about traveling then hopefully some of this extraneous films watching can be done on plane rides.

RE: Shaw back on NFL Draft telecast - BostonCard - 04-06-2022

My point is probably a bit more subtle than that. He is being paid $6 million to coach a football team, and his performance metric is how well the team plays, as measured (primarily) by its record. What he does (or doesn’t do), to get us there, especially as it pertains to his family, is not important to me.

Let me give you the other side of this. The story may be apocryphal, but, supposedly, Haase wrote Williams a hand-written letter every day during his recruitment. It seemed to work, as he did enroll at Stanford. And yet we still sucked last year, and Williams went pro. If, hypothetically, Haase had missed his kids’ basketball game to write those letters is not a mitigating factor in my book. Likewise, the fact that Shaw has a cushy gig doesn’t make his record any worse than if he were loudly signaling how hard he was working.

It turns out that working lots of hours is counterproductive and leads to worse productivity, a phenomenon called presenteeism.

https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2022/04/05/russias-war-in-ukraine-has-caused-at-least-68bn-in-physical-damage

Quote: Beyond a certain level, extra effort seems to be self-defeating. Studies suggest that, after 50 hours a week, employee productivity falls sharply.

BC

PS, all of the above is written in the spirit of listen to what i say, and not what I do. I would hardly qualify as the paragon of work/life balance.

RE: Shaw back on NFL Draft telecast - teejers1 - 04-06-2022

(04-06-2022, 03:54 PM)needle Wrote: Respectfully, I think the OP is way off on this one.

Kids who can truly ball out want to be constantly reassured that their school is going to prepare them for The League.

Shaw no doubt presents this gig as proof to kids that he knows what he's doing in that regard.

I get the opportunity costs argument, but if recruiting is a lot about traveling then hopefully some of this extraneous films watching can be done on plane rides.

So kids who want "contant" reassurance are going to be comforted that Shaw knows how to get them to the League because he is on a draft TV show? Hmmm. I'd think they'd be reassured by the actual numbers of players in the League from various programs. I mean, Saban isn't on these draft shows (is he?); yet I think few kids hold that against him/Alabama in terms of preparing for the league.

Can we just admit that Shaw likes doing this for personal reasons (including, perhaps, getting a leg up on his next gig) and that any attempt to portray it as helping Stanford football is just rationalizing?

Having said that, I'm not that worked up one way or the other. What Shaw needs to do to resurrect the program he is choking out goes so far beyond "abstaining on Draft Day TV commentary" it's a joke (and not a particularly funny one).

RE: Shaw back on NFL Draft telecast - old spanish trail - 04-06-2022

I suspect many of the big time high school ballers watch the draft, dreaming of the day. I've always thought that Shaw's TV appearances at draft day, especially numero uno when everyone is watching, are a good hype for the program. That, and the similar point made by Needle offset to a good degree what Shaw loses in time spent recruiting. Like many I've been disappointed in the EFFORT given to recruiting over the last several years, but I'm not convinced the TV appearance is big part of the problem. And, like many, I think some fresh blood would energize the effort.

RE: Shaw back on NFL Draft telecast - OutsiderFan - 04-07-2022

Coaches don't perform as a result of two primary factors:

1. They have poor judgment
2. Lack soft skills

I don't think anyone would claim David Shaw doesn't treat people well, so that leaves poor judgment as his primary downfall.

If the guy isn't going to perform well as a result of having poor judgment - or at least judgment that won't maximize his team's ability to win football games - why do you want him spending more time applying his bad judgment to the team?

IOW, if Shaw sucks, wouldn't more of his work product be detrimental to the program? At least if he is doing the NFL Draft gig, he's giving Stanford exposure (that will not be given to the program from players drafted this year because there are no headliners) and not driving the program further into the ground by working directly on it.

This is all to say anyone ripping Shaw for the NFL Draft gig is just trying to find another shovel of dirt to throw on him. They are just using different language to say Shaw should be replaced. They don't believe he has the ability to turn the program around if complaining about something like his participation with NFL Draft that was lauded a few years ago when his team was performing better.

RE: Shaw back on NFL Draft telecast - Phogge - 04-07-2022

At the low end he makes $6 million a year. That’s 2 million per win.

LOL.

RE: Shaw back on NFL Draft telecast - Mick - 04-07-2022

(04-06-2022, 08:54 PM)old spanish trail Wrote: I suspect many of the big time high school ballers watch the draft, dreaming of the day. I've always thought that Shaw's TV appearances at draft day, especially numero uno when everyone is watching, are a good hype for the program. That, and the similar point made by Needle offset to a good degree what Shaw loses in time spent recruiting. Like many I've been disappointed in the EFFORT given to recruiting over the last several years, but I'm not convinced the TV appearance is big part of the problem. And, like many, I think some fresh blood would energize the effort.

Frankly, I think it's necessary. Yes, I want Shaw and his assistants to hit the recruiting trail as hard as he possibly can. At the same time, we want the recruits who are dreaming of the NFL and are betting everything on the NFL. Sure, we want them to make a good the only appropriate 40 year decision. We want recruits, then players, then NFL players who brag every chance they get about attending Stanford (see Sherman, Richard). When recruits see Coach Shaw, it validates for them the decision to come to Stanford, or want to come to Stanford. It's a micro point, but an important one. The players that Stanford has on NFL rosters (33 at last count, see link, most Pac-12 NFL recruits over the past decade), the coaching and strength training that recruits get here AND the NFL visibility surrounding the program are all a part, and help combat the Pac-12 weak-sister trope.

2022 Stanford Cardinal in the NFL | Ourlads.com

RE: Shaw back on NFL Draft telecast - msqueri - 04-07-2022

I think some of you are under misapprehension that Shaw is on THE draft coverage. He's not on ESPN or ABC, he's on the NFL Network, the #3 feed for the draft. One has to be a bit quirky and actively watching a tertiary option to see Shaw's draft coverage. Maybe some Stanford self-selectors will tune in to see Shaw specifically. Most prospects will be watching Kiper and McShay on the mainstream networks. It's not all that many eyeballs who see Shaw's draft coverage (a million less than watch us get stomped by Notre Dame, for instance) and what's more, he is one of a handful of talking heads so if you're flipping between channels you're liable to miss him and, in any case, he probably talks less than a half hour total. One has to really want to see what Shaw has to say to see much of him on the draft coverage.

I also wonder if folks may be under the misapprehension that this is just a tv appearance that takes up a half day of his time. As he has said and as is obvious there are several weeks of film review of non-Stanford and non-Stanford opponent tape that goes into his preparation for this. And it's a type of film review homing in on individual prospects rather than a broader review of scheme or homing in on individual high school prospect film of somebody we might offer or something else that might be useful for his job as Stanford's coach.

RE: Shaw back on NFL Draft telecast - OutsiderFan - 04-07-2022

(04-07-2022, 08:27 AM)msqueri Wrote: I think some of you are under misapprehension that Shaw is on THE draft coverage. He's not on ESPN or ABC, he's on the NFL Network, the #3 feed for the draft. One has to be a bit quirky and actively watching a tertiary option to see Shaw's draft coverage. Maybe some Stanford self-selectors will tune in to see Shaw specifically. Most prospects will be watching Kiper and McShay on the mainstream networks. It's not all that many eyeballs who see Shaw's draft coverage (a million less than watch us get stomped by Notre Dame, for instance) and what's more, he is one of a handful of talking heads so if you're flipping between channels you're liable to miss him and, in any case, he probably talks less than a half hour total. One has to really want to see what Shaw has to say to see much of him on the draft coverage.

FWIW, ever since the draft started being covered by NFL Network, that's where I have watched it.

RE: Shaw back on NFL Draft telecast - msqueri - 04-07-2022

(04-07-2022, 08:34 AM)OutsiderFan Wrote:
(04-07-2022, 08:27 AM)msqueri Wrote: I think some of you are under misapprehension that Shaw is on THE draft coverage. He's not on ESPN or ABC, he's on the NFL Network, the #3 feed for the draft. One has to be a bit quirky and actively watching a tertiary option to see Shaw's draft coverage. Maybe some Stanford self-selectors will tune in to see Shaw specifically. Most prospects will be watching Kiper and McShay on the mainstream networks. It's not all that many eyeballs who see Shaw's draft coverage (a million less than watch us get stomped by Notre Dame, for instance) and what's more, he is one of a handful of talking heads so if you're flipping between channels you're liable to miss him and, in any case, he probably talks less than a half hour total. One has to really want to see what Shaw has to say to see much of him on the draft coverage.

FWIW, ever since the draft started being covered by NFL Network, that's where I have watched it.

And, FWIW, empirically you are part of 15.8 percent of viewers that do so. 51.59 percent of viewers watch the ESPN telecast. There are four channels for the draft and you watch the third most popular.