WBB - Way too early top 25 - Printable Version

WBB - Way too early top 25 - Printable Version

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WBB - Way too early top 25 - WBB fan - 10-06-2022

ESPN has just published Creme's "Way Too Early Top 25" (on the heels of his brackatology yesterday). Pretty much mirrors the bracketology. Stanford is #2, but after that, next PAC-12 is way down, to Arizona at 18 and Oregon at 20. Cites Jones and Brink as pre-season All Americans and possibly two of the top 5 players in the country. Looking at this list, Stanford's non-conference schedule is looking more and more challenging.

www.espn.com/womens-college-basketball/story/_/id/34732429/women-college-basketball-way-too-early-top-25-2022-23

RE: WBB - Way too early top 25 - stopandpop - 10-06-2022

(10-06-2022, 08:19 AM)WBB fan Wrote: ESPN has just published Creme's "Way Too Early Top 25" (on the heels of his brackatology yesterday). Pretty much mirrors the bracketology. Stanford is #2, but after that, next PAC-12 is way down, to Arizona at 18 and Oregon at 20. Cites Jones and Brink as pre-season All Americans and possibly two of the top 5 players in the country. Looking at this list, Stanford's non-conference schedule is looking more and more challenging.

www.espn.com/womens-college-basketball/story/_/id/34732429/women-college-basketball-way-too-early-top-25-2022-23

Strange, but perhaps not strange when it's coming from Creme that he goes into great detail about incoming freshmen as well as front court/back court players for many other ranked teams, but only mentions Betts, but not Nivar or Lepolo. Call it WCI (West Coast Ignorance).

Arizona will be higher, but Oregon (which plays so well in the PAC-12) has not performed to its talent in the NCAA Tourney the last 2 seasons.

RE: WBB - Way too early top 25 - joemontes - 10-06-2022

(10-06-2022, 08:19 AM)WBB fan Wrote: ESPN has just published Creme's "Way Too Early Top 25" (on the heels of his brackatology yesterday). Pretty much mirrors the bracketology. Stanford is #2, but after that, next PAC-12 is way down, to Arizona at 18 and Oregon at 20. Cites Jones and Brink as pre-season All Americans and possibly two of the top 5 players in the country. Looking at this list, Stanford's non-conference schedule is looking more and more challenging.

www.espn.com/womens-college-basketball/story/_/id/34732429/women-college-basketball-way-too-early-top-25-2022-23

I just have this gut-feel that Vic SCHAEFER will engineer this assembly of:

1) highly accomplished experienced transfers:
- 5'10 SG/PG Shaylee GONZALES (from BYU, two-time WCC POY and 2nd Team AA)
- 5'10 SG Sonya MORRIS (from DePaul, two-time Big East 1st Team)
- 6'4 PF/C Taylor JONES (from Oregon State, All-PAC 12)

2) high-impact returning incoming sophomores and juniors:
- 5'6 PG Rory HARMON
- 6'1 PF Aaliyah MOORE
- 6'2 PF Deyona GASTON
- 6'0 SG Shay HOLLE

3) incoming Top 60+ freshmen:
- 6'1 SF Njakalenga MWENENTANDA
- 6'4 C Amina MUHAMMAD
- 6'1 SG Jordana CODIO

into a well-oiled machine come NCAA tournament time,
and end up in the NCAA championship game,
just as he did with his overperforming Mississippi State
squads in 2017 and 2018

RE: WBB - Way too early top 25 - stopandpop - 10-06-2022

(10-06-2022, 02:01 PM)joemontes Wrote:
(10-06-2022, 08:19 AM)WBB fan Wrote: ESPN has just published Creme's "Way Too Early Top 25" (on the heels of his brackatology yesterday). Pretty much mirrors the bracketology. Stanford is #2, but after that, next PAC-12 is way down, to Arizona at 18 and Oregon at 20. Cites Jones and Brink as pre-season All Americans and possibly two of the top 5 players in the country. Looking at this list, Stanford's non-conference schedule is looking more and more challenging.

www.espn.com/womens-college-basketball/story/_/id/34732429/women-college-basketball-way-too-early-top-25-2022-23
I just have this gut-feel that Vic SCHAEFER will engineer this assembly of:

1) highly accomplished experienced transfers:
- 5'10 SG/PG Shaylee GONZALES (from BYU, two-time WCC POY and 2nd Team AA)
- 5'10 SG Sonya MORRIS (from DePaul, two-time Big East 1st Team)
- 6'4 PF/C Taylor JONES (from Oregon State, All-PAC 12)

2) high-impact returning incoming sophomores and juniors:
- 5'6 PG Rory HARMON
- 6'1 PF Aaliyah MOORE
- 6'2 PF Deyona GASTON
- 6'0 SG Shay HOLLE

3) incoming Top 60+ freshmen:
- 6'1 SF Njakalenga MWENENTANDA
- 6'4 C Amina MUHAMMAD
- 6'1 SG Jordana CODIO

into a well-oiled machine come NCAA tournament time,
and end up in the NCAA championship game,
just as he did with his overperforming Mississippi State
squads in 2017 and 2018

Agree, Vic is a master at melding talent (he has it this season), with his signature pressure defense and now with sufficient offensive weapons at his disposal. Should we end up playing them at some point in the Tourney, we will need more than Brink and Jones, as great as they are. I keep hoping Nivar and/or Harriel can become that quick, athletic guard who can handle the ball under pressure, penetrate, score or make the assist and give us a legit weapon on the perimeter both offensively and defensively. We need threats from 3 additional positions to free up our All-Americans.

Spike - Spike - 10-06-2022

Has anyone seen anything from Harriel to justify optimism?

RE: WBB - Way too early top 25 - BobK - 10-06-2022

I saw Harriell twice in HS Loved her game. Never saw her play point however.

RE: WBB - Way too early top 25 - 81alum - 10-06-2022

(10-06-2022, 06:10 PM)BobK Wrote: I saw Harriell twice in HS Loved her game. Never saw her play point however.

How many of our guards have played point competitively in the past? After all, we are going to need more than ONE point guard.

Emma-Nnopu doubtful ?
Lepolo YES
Nivar "combo-guard" ?
Bosgana doubtful ?
Papadaki ?
Jones YES
Green ?
Harriel ?
Jump doubtful ?

Williams came in as a combo-guard, so we can hope that Nivar is the next Williams.

While we are on the subject, when was the last time a freshman played point guard? Was that Candice Wiggins? (EDIT: Sniezek started 9 games as a freshman, but I am looking for the last time a freshman became a regular starting point guard. Lili Thompson had more assists that year.)

I think we will see a lot of Jones at point, especially early in the year, while other points come along. I find it hard to believe that Nivar or Lepolo can be starting at point anytime soon--Tara puts so much weight on experience and on learning our system. That would demand an enormous basketball brain and nerves of steel that few freshmen will have. If we played a loosey-goosey style and improvisational offense, then that would be something else. But Tara's offenses, with Princeton elements, demand discipline. On the other hand, in the Princeton about four players can set up the plays, and the role of point to initiate the offense is reduced.

The main problem then remains ball handling against the press, and the Princeton doesn't help that one little bit. In fact, the Princeton thrives on lots of time to keep the players in motion until the defense makes a mistake, and the longer it takes to bring the ball up court the less time for running the offense. Opponents have already figured that out and they press us to consume clock as much as to force turnovers. So the Princeton really demands a solid, quick, and reliable method for bringing the ball up court. Remember, when the Princeton was first developed there was no shot clock, and thus the shot clock limits its effectiveness. The defense only has to survive a couple of plays without making a mistake, instead of motion ad infinitum. Bring the ball up slowly and there is only time for 1 or 2 options instead of 3 or 4, and that dramatically limits it. So maybe it is time to ditch the Princeton, go back to the triangle or something else that more prominently features our plethora of great "bigs".

If Jones does play a lot of point and we go with a "big" lineup, I keep thinking that maybe Tara will try out a different kind of defense designed to make us less vulnerable to slashers. Could this be the year of the zone?

I just get the feeling that change is in the air, whether offensive or defensive. Hard to see us running everything the same as we did last year with such different personnel this year.

RE: WBB - Way too early top 25 - Jskass - 10-06-2022

I saw Harriel this summer as part of the 3x3 and she is quick and also seemed to be a quick learner.

(10-06-2022, 06:10 PM)BobK Wrote: I saw Harriell twice in HS Loved her game. Never saw her play point however.

RE: WBB - Way too early top 25 - joemontes - 10-07-2022

We all agree that the PG position is the starting BIG question mark with this edition of Stanford WBB,
and I'm pretty sure that's why Tara scheduled their first 5 games versus relatively lightweight teams
to gradually unveil who will rise to the occasion and provide the answer(s) to this BIG question mark....

I'm looking at the schedule and their game at Portland is nationally televised in ESPN2? WOW!
How about their home game versus South Carolina, which is a #1 versus #2 heavyweight encounter?

RE: WBB - Way too early top 25 - BobK - 10-07-2022

I saw Harriell twice in HS Loved her game. Never saw her play point however.

RE: WBB - Way too early top 25 - BosCard - 10-07-2022

(10-06-2022, 06:29 PM)81alum Wrote:
(10-06-2022, 06:10 PM)BobK Wrote: I saw Harriell twice in HS Loved her game. Never saw her play point however.
How many of our guards have played point competitively in the past? After all, we are going to need more than ONE point guard.

Emma-Nnopu doubtful ?
Lepolo YES
Nivar "combo-guard" ?
Bosgana doubtful ?
Papadaki ?
Jones YES
Green ?
Harriel ?
Jump doubtful ?

Williams came in as a combo-guard, so we can hope that Nivar is the next Williams.

While we are on the subject, when was the last time a freshman played point guard? Was that Candice Wiggins? (EDIT: Sniezek started 9 games as a freshman, but I am looking for the last time a freshman became a regular starting point guard. Lili Thompson had more assists that year.)

I think we will see a lot of Jones at point, especially early in the year, while other points come along. I find it hard to believe that Nivar or Lepolo can be starting at point anytime soon--Tara puts so much weight on experience and on learning our system. That would demand an enormous basketball brain and nerves of steel that few freshmen will have. If we played a loosey-goosey style and improvisational offense, then that would be something else. But Tara's offenses, with Princeton elements, demand discipline. On the other hand, in the Princeton about four players can set up the plays, and the role of point to initiate the offense is reduced.

The main problem then remains ball handling against the press, and the Princeton doesn't help that one little bit. In fact, the Princeton thrives on lots of time to keep the players in motion until the defense makes a mistake, and the longer it takes to bring the ball up court the less time for running the offense. Opponents have already figured that out and they press us to consume clock as much as to force turnovers. So the Princeton really demands a solid, quick, and reliable method for bringing the ball up court. Remember, when the Princeton was first developed there was no shot clock, and thus the shot clock limits its effectiveness. The defense only has to survive a couple of plays without making a mistake, instead of motion ad infinitum. Bring the ball up slowly and there is only time for 1 or 2 options instead of 3 or 4, and that dramatically limits it. So maybe it is time to ditch the Princeton, go back to the triangle or something else that more prominently features our plethora of great "bigs".

If Jones does play a lot of point and we go with a "big" lineup, I keep thinking that maybe Tara will try out a different kind of defense designed to make us less vulnerable to slashers. Could this be the year of the zone?

I just get the feeling that change is in the air, whether offensive or defensive. Hard to see us running everything the same as we did last year with such different personnel this year.

Nivar was primarily used as a PG on the U18 national team. My guess is that Nivar or Lepolo back up Jones OR play with Jones to help bring up the ball but Jones primarily initiates the offense in the half court.

RE: WBB - Way too early top 25 - stopandpop - 10-07-2022

(10-06-2022, 06:29 PM)81alum Wrote:
(10-06-2022, 06:10 PM)BobK Wrote: I saw Harriell twice in HS Loved her game. Never saw her play point however.
How many of our guards have played point competitively in the past? After all, we are going to need more than ONE point guard.

Emma-Nnopu doubtful ?
Lepolo YES
Nivar "combo-guard" ?
Bosgana doubtful ?
Papadaki ?
Jones YES
Green ?
Harriel ?
Jump doubtful ?

Williams came in as a combo-guard, so we can hope that Nivar is the next Williams.

While we are on the subject, when was the last time a freshman played point guard? Was that Candice Wiggins? (EDIT: Sniezek started 9 games as a freshman, but I am looking for the last time a freshman became a regular starting point guard. Lili Thompson had more assists that year.)

I think we will see a lot of Jones at point, especially early in the year, while other points come along. I find it hard to believe that Nivar or Lepolo can be starting at point anytime soon--Tara puts so much weight on experience and on learning our system. That would demand an enormous basketball brain and nerves of steel that few freshmen will have. If we played a loosey-goosey style and improvisational offense, then that would be something else. But Tara's offenses, with Princeton elements, demand discipline. On the other hand, in the Princeton about four players can set up the plays, and the role of point to initiate the offense is reduced.

The main problem then remains ball handling against the press, and the Princeton doesn't help that one little bit. In fact, the Princeton thrives on lots of time to keep the players in motion until the defense makes a mistake, and the longer it takes to bring the ball up court the less time for running the offense. Opponents have already figured that out and they press us to consume clock as much as to force turnovers. So the Princeton really demands a solid, quick, and reliable method for bringing the ball up court. Remember, when the Princeton was first developed there was no shot clock, and thus the shot clock limits its effectiveness. The defense only has to survive a couple of plays without making a mistake, instead of motion ad infinitum. Bring the ball up slowly and there is only time for 1 or 2 options instead of 3 or 4, and that dramatically limits it. So maybe it is time to ditch the Princeton, go back to the triangle or something else that more prominently features our plethora of great "bigs".

If Jones does play a lot of point and we go with a "big" lineup, I keep thinking that maybe Tara will try out a different kind of defense designed to make us less vulnerable to slashers. Could this be the year of the zone?

I just get the feeling that change is in the air, whether offensive or defensive. Hard to see us running everything the same as we did last year with such different personnel this year.

Some very excellent points. Yes, Haley will be bringing up the ball, but with her high dribble, she has had trouble with smaller, quick guards defending her before and even after she crosses midcourt. Still, Haley is our best bet right now, but I worry about being pressed and how that impacts her amazing offensive game.

You're right about the Princeton offense limiting opportunities with the shot clock winding down and many instances where we rushed shots or made ill-advised drives to a well-defended basket, but then again, we burned Texas with a number of backdoor plays in last season's regionals. I am sure this vulnerability is not lost on Tara. Some tweaks to the offense (for more early points opportunities) are needed.

While there is no Kiana Williams on the roster, I am hoping that Nivar or Harriel will become our #2 starting guard by Conference, even if Haley continues to be PG/point wing/forward. Many teams pressured us on the perimeter and we had no one who could create their own offense, drive the ball, shoot, pass, etc. We need five offensive threats to relieve that pressure which in turn gives Haley more operating room and takes away potential double-teaming of Brink.

Would be great to see Nivar and/or Harriel demonstrating such skills in those early non-conference games before we face South Carolina. The Gamecocks are going to continue to pressure and disrupt our perimeter players whoever we throw out there. With quick ball handling and the ability to create, we can turn that pressure into an advantage.

Part of the mystery and excitement with less than a month to go!

RE: WBB - Way too early top 25 - BobK - 10-07-2022

"Part of the mystery and excitement with less than a month to go!"

Or until the open practice whenever that is

RE: WBB - Way too early top 25 - AxeMan89 - 10-07-2022

(10-07-2022, 03:32 PM)BobK Wrote: "Part of the mystery and excitement with less than a month to go!"

Or until the open practice whenever that is

Thought I got a note that open practice and chat was November 1. Perhaps Buck/Cardinal and not STH?

RE: WBB - Way too early top 25 - BobK - 10-07-2022

Mov 1 is a 30 minute open practice Buck cardinal club event. Not the open practice

RE: WBB - Way too early top 25 - Spiny_Norman - 10-08-2022

Stanford also needs to use the early season games to identify reliable 3 point shooters other than Jump. She made the most 3 pointers on the team last year. But 2nd, 3rd, 4th and 5th (Lexie Hull, Lacie Hull, Wilson and Van Gytenbeek) are all gone.

RE: WBB - Way too early top 25 - old spanish trail - 10-08-2022

Has anyone heard any info re why Van Gytenbeek left?

RE: WBB - Way too early top 25 - JohnR34231 - 10-09-2022

(10-08-2022, 03:09 PM)old spanish trail Wrote: Has anyone heard any info re why Van Gytenbeek left?

I think everyone has assumed she wasn't happy with her playing time last year and didn't see it improving significantly this year.
If there is any other reason I don't think it has been made public.

RE: WBB - Way too early top 25 - Card10Fan - 10-09-2022

(10-08-2022, 03:09 PM)old spanish trail Wrote: Has anyone heard any info re why Van Gytenbeek left?

Unless the player herself comes out and discusses why she chose to leave, it likely remains unknown or purely speculation. Jana was dating another member of the Stanford WBB team last year. Could have been a number of factors involved; wanting more playing time, strained relationships with fellow players/coaches, just wanting a change of scenery and fresh start. Regardless, we wish her the best and move on. Curious how much playing time she will get this year as Baylor has many returning guards on their roster.

RE: WBB - Way too early top 25 - TheWildJacko - 10-09-2022

I’m hoping for a lot more over-the-top style lob passes, in addition to our classic backdoor cuts, now that Betts is on the roster this year.