Even Cal... - Printable Version

Even Cal... - Printable Version

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Even Cal... - OutsiderFan - 11-13-2022

is firing coaches for failure now, as OC Musgrave and OL Coach McClure were axed today.

I don't see how firing coaches when 3-7 saves a season, BUT it at least shows you care and won't accept failure. Stanford just cues up the "everything is fine in a burning building" meme and continues digging deeper.

RE: Even Cal... - JeffInCorvallis - 11-13-2022

(11-13-2022, 07:37 PM)OutsiderFan Wrote: is firing coaches for failure now, as OC Musgrave and OL Coach McClure were axed today.

I don't see how firing coaches when 3-7 saves a season, BUT it at least shows you care and won't accept failure. Stanford just cues up the "everything is fine in a burning building" meme and continues digging deeper.

Not sure what the point is of firing coaches with two games left in the season except, as you say, it says that they're not going to accept the status quo and change SOMETHING.

RE: Even Cal... - 82lsju - 11-13-2022

(11-13-2022, 08:42 PM)JeffInCorvallis Wrote:
(11-13-2022, 07:37 PM)OutsiderFan Wrote: is firing coaches for failure now, as OC Musgrave and OL Coach McClure were axed today.

I don't see how firing coaches when 3-7 saves a season, BUT it at least shows you care and won't accept failure. Stanford just cues up the "everything is fine in a burning building" meme and continues digging deeper.

Not sure what the point is of firing coaches with two games left in the season except, as you say, it says that they're not going to accept the status quo and change SOMETHING.

it does give them a head start on actively hiring their replacements.

RE: Even Cal... - BostonCard - 11-13-2022

And here I thought Wilcox was a smart guy who hires smarter coordinators.

BC

RE: Even Cal... - Giants - 11-13-2022

(11-13-2022, 07:37 PM)OutsiderFan Wrote: is firing coaches for failure now, as OC Musgrave and OL Coach McClure were axed today.

I don't see how firing coaches when 3-7 saves a season, BUT it at least shows you care and won't accept failure. Stanford just cues up the "everything is fine in a burning building" meme and continues digging deeper.

Too little; Too late…

If Cal really cared about their football program, those two would have been fired after last season. They don’t; they weren’t.

Why now? I’m guessing that because the team is no longer eligible to play in a bowl game, the head coach is moving quickly to deflect blame. In my opinion, his inability to hold himself accountable for a mess of a program is at the core of their problems.

Regardless, the question here should be what will Stanford do regarding their coaching situation? Will Shaw retire from coaching to go into broadcasting full-time? Or, if he chooses to continue as the HC, will he shake up his staff of assistants? Or, something else, none of us have considered?

RE: Even Cal... - Jamesy - 11-13-2022

(11-13-2022, 11:11 PM)Giants Wrote:
(11-13-2022, 07:37 PM)OutsiderFan Wrote: is firing coaches for failure now, as OC Musgrave and OL Coach McClure were axed today.

I don't see how firing coaches when 3-7 saves a season, BUT it at least shows you care and won't accept failure. Stanford just cues up the "everything is fine in a burning building" meme and continues digging deeper.

Too little; Too late…

If Cal really cared about their football program, those two would have been fired after last season. They aren’t; they weren’t.

Why now? I’m guessing that because the team is no longer eligible to play in a bowl game, the head coach is moving quickly to deflect blame. In my opinion, his inability to hold himself accountable for a mess of a program is at the core of their problems.

Regardless, the question here should be what will Stanford do regarding their coaching situation? Will Shaw retire from coaching to go into broadcasting full-time? Or, if he chooses to continue as the HC, will he shake up his staff of assistants? Or, something else, none of us have considered?

Hope I'm wrong but I think there is a non trivial chance he makes only 0 or 1 assistant coach change excluding coaches that "retire".

RE: Even Cal... - JohnR34231 - 11-14-2022

(11-13-2022, 09:06 PM)BostonCard Wrote: And here I thought Wilcox was a smart guy who hires smarter coordinators.

BC

Yeah, it seems like this great admiration everyone had for Wilcox is finally starting to dissipate.

RE: Even Cal... - OutsiderFan - 11-14-2022

Wilcox is not the problem. Cal is the problem. Just look at the history and how the hoops and football programs have performed since 1960. Even look at the WVB and WBB programs. For the most part, suck , suck, suck. Softball had a nice run, but has been terrible for years now.

You can also look at Sonny Dykes. Cal fans were convinced he was the anti-christ of a football coach. Now he's at a place that actually gives a scintilla of a shit, and has his TCU team 10-0, ranked #4, possibly headed to CFP.

Cal has now signed two straight naming rights deals with companies that went bankrupt. They signed a deal with Under Armor that blew up in their face too. It's indifferent ineptitude all around, but sure, it's all Wilcox's fault they suck.

RE: Even Cal... - JohnR34231 - 11-14-2022

(11-14-2022, 05:22 AM)OutsiderFan Wrote: Wilcox is not the problem. Cal is the problem. Just look at the history and how the hoops and football programs have performed since 1960. Even look at the WVB and WBB programs. For the most part, suck , suck, suck. Softball had a nice run, but has been terrible for years now.

You can also look at Sonny Dykes. Cal fans were convinced he was the anti-christ of a football coach. Now he's at a place that actually gives a scintilla of a shit, and has his TCU team 10-0, ranked #4, possibly headed to CFP.

Cal has now signed two straight naming rights deals with companies that went bankrupt. They signed a deal with Under Armor that blew up in their face too. It's indifferent ineptitude all around, but sure, it's all Wilcox's fault they suck.

Actually Kal had a pretty nice run in the 1970's under Mike White.

RE: Even Cal... - OutsiderFan - 11-14-2022

(11-14-2022, 05:36 AM)JohnR34231 Wrote:
(11-14-2022, 05:22 AM)OutsiderFan Wrote: Wilcox is not the problem. Cal is the problem. Just look at the history and how the hoops and football programs have performed since 1960. Even look at the WVB and WBB programs. For the most part, suck , suck, suck. Softball had a nice run, but has been terrible for years now.

You can also look at Sonny Dykes. Cal fans were convinced he was the anti-christ of a football coach. Now he's at a place that actually gives a scintilla of a shit, and has his TCU team 10-0, ranked #4, possibly headed to CFP.

Cal has now signed two straight naming rights deals with companies that went bankrupt. They signed a deal with Under Armor that blew up in their face too. It's indifferent ineptitude all around, but sure, it's all Wilcox's fault they suck.

Actually Kal had a pretty nice run in the 1970's under Mike White.

Yes, from 1974-1976 and 2004 to 2006, Cal was great. They were also ranked #2 in 2007, poised to go to #1 if they could beat unranked Oregon State at home. They lost that game and 6/7 as the entire season imploded under Jeff Tedford. Other than that, and beating Duke to get to the Sweet 16 in 1992, it's all suck and mediocrity for the most part.

But again, blame Justin Wilcox because he is the real problem with Cal Football.

RE: Even Cal... - JohnR34231 - 11-14-2022

(11-14-2022, 06:45 AM)OutsiderFan Wrote:
(11-14-2022, 05:36 AM)JohnR34231 Wrote:
(11-14-2022, 05:22 AM)OutsiderFan Wrote: Wilcox is not the problem. Cal is the problem. Just look at the history and how the hoops and football programs have performed since 1960. Even look at the WVB and WBB programs. For the most part, suck , suck, suck. Softball had a nice run, but has been terrible for years now.

You can also look at Sonny Dykes. Cal fans were convinced he was the anti-christ of a football coach. Now he's at a place that actually gives a scintilla of a shit, and has his TCU team 10-0, ranked #4, possibly headed to CFP.

Cal has now signed two straight naming rights deals with companies that went bankrupt. They signed a deal with Under Armor that blew up in their face too. It's indifferent ineptitude all around, but sure, it's all Wilcox's fault they suck.

Actually Kal had a pretty nice run in the 1970's under Mike White.

Yes, from 1974-1976 and 2004 to 2006, Cal was great. They were also ranked #2 in 2007, poised to go to #1 if they could beat unranked Oregon State at home. They lost that game and 6/7 as the entire season imploded under Jeff Tedford. Other than that, and beating Duke to get to the Sweet 16 in 1992, it's all suck and mediocrity for the most part.

But again, blame Justin Wilcox because he is the real problem with Cal Football.

Well, if it is virtually impossible to win at Kal because of reasons beyond the HC's control you would think Wilcox would have realized that and headed off for greener pastures.

RE: Even Cal... - lex24 - 11-14-2022

(11-14-2022, 05:22 AM)OutsiderFan Wrote: Wilcox is not the problem. Cal is the problem. Just look at the history and how the hoops and football programs have performed since 1960. Even look at the WVB and WBB programs. For the most part, suck , suck, suck. Softball had a nice run, but has been terrible for years now.

You can also look at Sonny Dykes. Cal fans were convinced he was the anti-christ of a football coach. Now he's at a place that actually gives a scintilla of a shit, and has his TCU team 10-0, ranked #4, possibly headed to CFP.

Cal has now signed two straight naming rights deals with companies that went bankrupt. They signed a deal with Under Armor that blew up in their face too. It's indifferent ineptitude all around, but sure, it's all Wilcox's fault they suck.

Dykes was awful at Cal. Did nothing to improve an awful defense. And he was a poor fit to boot.

Yes, they have Administrative problems. But so does Stanford. Bay Area college football is dying. Blame the coaches all you want. It’s their program. But without administrative support, neither program is going anywhere.

If Shaw is gone, which I highly doubt, who takes his place? My guess is an older Coordinator that has never had a shot at an HC. Or an older HC from a non Power Five. Cause if I’m an up and coming young coach looking for my first HC job, no way I take a position at either Stanford or Cal. Maybe they look a few miles south and try to get Brennan.

As for Wilcox - amazing how quickly perceptions change. Didn’t he just supposedly turn down the Washington job? A decision he may come to rue.

RE: Even Cal... - msqueri - 11-14-2022

(11-14-2022, 07:59 AM)lex24 Wrote:
(11-14-2022, 05:22 AM)OutsiderFan Wrote: Wilcox is not the problem. Cal is the problem. Just look at the history and how the hoops and football programs have performed since 1960. Even look at the WVB and WBB programs. For the most part, suck , suck, suck. Softball had a nice run, but has been terrible for years now.

You can also look at Sonny Dykes. Cal fans were convinced he was the anti-christ of a football coach. Now he's at a place that actually gives a scintilla of a shit, and has his TCU team 10-0, ranked #4, possibly headed to CFP.

Cal has now signed two straight naming rights deals with companies that went bankrupt. They signed a deal with Under Armor that blew up in their face too. It's indifferent ineptitude all around, but sure, it's all Wilcox's fault they suck.

Dykes was awful at Cal. Did nothing to improve an awful defense. And he was a poor fit to boot.

Yes, they have Administrative problems. But so does Stanford. Bay Area college football is dying. Blame the coaches all you want. It’s their program. But without administrative support, neither program is going anywhere.

If Shaw is gone, which I highly doubt, who takes his place? My guess is an older Coordinator that has never had a shot at an HC. Or an older HC from a non Power Five. Cause if I’m an up and coming young coach looking for my first HC job, no way I take a position at either Stanford or Cal. Maybe they look a few miles south and try to get Brennan.

As for Wilcox - amazing how quickly perceptions change. Didn’t he just supposedly turn down the Washington job? A decision he may come to rue.

Jaw-dropping how much of this post I think is wrong, but very busy day so not sure I can engage. I think it's closer to being all wrong than to half right.

RE: Even Cal... - lex24 - 11-14-2022

(11-14-2022, 08:17 AM)msqueri Wrote:
(11-14-2022, 07:59 AM)lex24 Wrote:
(11-14-2022, 05:22 AM)OutsiderFan Wrote: Wilcox is not the problem. Cal is the problem. Just look at the history and how the hoops and football programs have performed since 1960. Even look at the WVB and WBB programs. For the most part, suck , suck, suck. Softball had a nice run, but has been terrible for years now.

You can also look at Sonny Dykes. Cal fans were convinced he was the anti-christ of a football coach. Now he's at a place that actually gives a scintilla of a shit, and has his TCU team 10-0, ranked #4, possibly headed to CFP.

Cal has now signed two straight naming rights deals with companies that went bankrupt. They signed a deal with Under Armor that blew up in their face too. It's indifferent ineptitude all around, but sure, it's all Wilcox's fault they suck.

Dykes was awful at Cal. Did nothing to improve an awful defense. And he was a poor fit to boot.

Yes, they have Administrative problems. But so does Stanford. Bay Area college football is dying. Blame the coaches all you want. It’s their program. But without administrative support, neither program is going anywhere.

If Shaw is gone, which I highly doubt, who takes his place? My guess is an older Coordinator that has never had a shot at an HC. Or an older HC from a non Power Five. Cause if I’m an up and coming young coach looking for my first HC job, no way I take a position at either Stanford or Cal. Maybe they look a few miles south and try to get Brennan.

As for Wilcox - amazing how quickly perceptions change. Didn’t he just supposedly turn down the Washington job? A decision he may come to rue.

Jaw-dropping how much of this post I think is wrong, but very busy day so not sure I can engage. I think it's closer to being all wrong than to half right.

Jaw dropping! Impressive! So, please elaborate, what points are “jaw droppingly” wrong ?

1. Bay Area college football is dying?
2. Administrations at both Stanford are not invested in football.
3. That any HC needs administrative support.
4. Dykes was awful at Cal and a bad fit to boot
5. Shaw will be back next year
6. Stanford is not an attractive job to a young up and coming coach.

0-6? Surely, I got a couple right. I mean, even a blind squirrel…..

RE: Even Cal... - Giants - 11-14-2022

(11-14-2022, 05:22 AM)OutsiderFan Wrote: Wilcox is not the problem. Cal is the problem. Just look at the history and how the hoops and football programs have performed since 1960. Even look at the WVB and WBB programs. For the most part, suck , suck, suck. Softball had a nice run, but has been terrible for years now.

You can also look at Sonny Dykes. Cal fans were convinced he was the anti-christ of a football coach. Now he's at a place that actually gives a scintilla of a shit, and has his TCU team 10-0, ranked #4, possibly headed to CFP.

Cal has now signed two straight naming rights deals with companies that went bankrupt. They signed a deal with Under Armor that blew up in their face too. It's indifferent ineptitude all around, but sure, it's all Wilcox's fault they suck.

Kabam did not go bankrupt. The company was sold and the entity that purchased Kabam reached a settlement with Cal. Having said that, their deal making skills are questionable at best.

(11-14-2022, 07:59 AM)lex24 Wrote:
(11-14-2022, 05:22 AM)OutsiderFan Wrote: Wilcox is not the problem. Cal is the problem. Just look at the history and how the hoops and football programs have performed since 1960. Even look at the WVB and WBB programs. For the most part, suck , suck, suck. Softball had a nice run, but has been terrible for years now.

You can also look at Sonny Dykes. Cal fans were convinced he was the anti-christ of a football coach. Now he's at a place that actually gives a scintilla of a shit, and has his TCU team 10-0, ranked #4, possibly headed to CFP.

Cal has now signed two straight naming rights deals with companies that went bankrupt. They signed a deal with Under Armor that blew up in their face too. It's indifferent ineptitude all around, but sure, it's all Wilcox's fault they suck.

Dykes was awful at Cal. Did nothing to improve an awful defense. And he was a poor fit to boot.

Yes, they have Administrative problems. But so does Stanford. Bay Area college football is dying. Blame the coaches all you want. It’s their program. But without administrative support, neither program is going anywhere.

If Shaw is gone, which I highly doubt, who takes his place? My guess is an older Coordinator that has never had a shot at an HC. Or an older HC from a non Power Five. Cause if I’m an up and coming young coach looking for my first HC job, no way I take a position at either Stanford or Cal. Maybe they look a few miles south and try to get Brennan.

As for Wilcox - amazing how quickly perceptions change. Didn’t he just supposedly turn down the Washington job? A decision he may come to rue.

You nailed it Lex. Also, he turned down Oregon (his Alma Mater) not UW.

And, you were 6 for 6 in your response post.

RE: Even Cal... - cardcrimson - 11-14-2022

(11-14-2022, 09:34 AM)Giants Wrote: You nailed it Lex. Also, he turned down Oregon (his Alma Mater) not UW.

And, you were 6 for 6 in your response post.

Think it was UW

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwi-4unxja77AhVGmGoFHfbFCwkQFnoECAkQAQ&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwriteforcalifornia.com%2Fp%2Fjustin-wilcox-washington-huskies-coaching-rumors&usg=AOvVaw1Jw0Lb6RzQVCh-oG3oXAuI

RE: Even Cal... - Goose - 11-14-2022

(11-14-2022, 07:59 AM)lex24 Wrote: As for Wilcox - amazing how quickly perceptions change. Didn’t he just supposedly turn down the Washington job? A decision he may come to rue.

Actually, I think it was Oregon. It is disputed what, if anything, he was actually "offered". IMHO what this situation actually demonstrates (yet again) is that is difficult to actually know how much success can be attributed to the head coach and how much to circumstances. Dykes goes to TCU and is gifted with a defense. Great things ensue. How much is Dykes and how much is the situation? If Dykes goes on a run it would reinforce the idea it was mostly Dykes. If he doesn't and the program goes downhill, does that mean it wasn't mostly Dykes? Not necessarily. It may mean that the time and place was right for Dykes and he made the most of it. Later, circumstances changed and it stopped working for him. We can't know. If we could, hiring coaches would be simple.

RE: Even Cal... - Giants - 11-14-2022

(11-14-2022, 09:41 AM)cardcrimson Wrote:
(11-14-2022, 09:34 AM)Giants Wrote: You nailed it Lex. Also, he turned down Oregon (his Alma Mater) not UW.

And, you were 6 for 6 in your response post.

Think it was UW

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwi-4unxja77AhVGmGoFHfbFCwkQFnoECAkQAQ&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwriteforcalifornia.com%2Fp%2Fjustin-wilcox-washington-huskies-coaching-rumors&usg=AOvVaw1Jw0Lb6RzQVCh-oG3oXAuI

He said no to Oregon. I don’t believe UW ever made an offer.

https://www.si.com/college/cal/news/espn-report-wilcox-turns-down-oregon

RE: Even Cal... - SamuelMcF - 11-14-2022

(11-14-2022, 09:48 AM)Giants Wrote:
(11-14-2022, 09:41 AM)cardcrimson Wrote:
(11-14-2022, 09:34 AM)Giants Wrote: You nailed it Lex. Also, he turned down Oregon (his Alma Mater) not UW.

And, you were 6 for 6 in your response post.

Think it was UW

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwi-4unxja77AhVGmGoFHfbFCwkQFnoECAkQAQ&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwriteforcalifornia.com%2Fp%2Fjustin-wilcox-washington-huskies-coaching-rumors&usg=AOvVaw1Jw0Lb6RzQVCh-oG3oXAuI

He said no to Oregon. I don’t believe UW ever made an offer.

https://www.si.com/college/cal/news/espn-report-wilcox-turns-down-oregon

Oregon never offered him a job. His agent did amazing PR work to get him extended, to the point where everyone still thinks they did.

RE: Even Cal... - BostonCard - 11-14-2022

(11-14-2022, 09:03 AM)lex24 Wrote:
(11-14-2022, 08:17 AM)msqueri Wrote:
(11-14-2022, 07:59 AM)lex24 Wrote:
(11-14-2022, 05:22 AM)OutsiderFan Wrote: Wilcox is not the problem. Cal is the problem. Just look at the history and how the hoops and football programs have performed since 1960. Even look at the WVB and WBB programs. For the most part, suck , suck, suck. Softball had a nice run, but has been terrible for years now.

You can also look at Sonny Dykes. Cal fans were convinced he was the anti-christ of a football coach. Now he's at a place that actually gives a scintilla of a shit, and has his TCU team 10-0, ranked #4, possibly headed to CFP.

Cal has now signed two straight naming rights deals with companies that went bankrupt. They signed a deal with Under Armor that blew up in their face too. It's indifferent ineptitude all around, but sure, it's all Wilcox's fault they suck.

Dykes was awful at Cal. Did nothing to improve an awful defense. And he was a poor fit to boot.

Yes, they have Administrative problems. But so does Stanford. Bay Area college football is dying. Blame the coaches all you want. It’s their program. But without administrative support, neither program is going anywhere.

If Shaw is gone, which I highly doubt, who takes his place? My guess is an older Coordinator that has never had a shot at an HC. Or an older HC from a non Power Five. Cause if I’m an up and coming young coach looking for my first HC job, no way I take a position at either Stanford or Cal. Maybe they look a few miles south and try to get Brennan.

As for Wilcox - amazing how quickly perceptions change. Didn’t he just supposedly turn down the Washington job? A decision he may come to rue.

Jaw-dropping how much of this post I think is wrong, but very busy day so not sure I can engage. I think it's closer to being all wrong than to half right.

Jaw dropping! Impressive! So, please elaborate, what points are “jaw droppingly” wrong ?

1. Bay Area college football is dying?
2. Administrations at both Stanford are not invested in football.
3. That any HC needs administrative support.
4. Dykes was awful at Cal and a bad fit to boot
5. Shaw will be back next year
6. Stanford is not an attractive job to a young up and coming coach.

0-6? Surely, I got a couple right. I mean, even a blind squirrel…..

Based on several prior posts disputing the idea that Stanford is not an attractive job, I would say that Matt vehemently disagrees with you on #6. Ultimately, we won't know until we try it, but I am somewhat inclined to agree that while Stanford might not be a top tier destination, it is probably a decent place to go for an ambitious young G5 or FCS coach or FBS coordinator. I think a such a coach would look at where the program is now and can see room for making a difference fairly quickly (whether they do or not is a question, but an ambitious young coach would not doubt that they can) while getting a pretty good salary, and look at being able to leverage that into an NFL (like Harbaugh) or top-tier BCS gig (like Willingham) in 4-5 years, or into a long-term, comfortable head coaching gig at Stanford (like Shaw).

Ultimately, we won't know until we try it, but Matt has identified more such candidates than there are top-tier openings, so you would have to assume that those coaches would prefer to stay where they are (hoping more positions to open up in the next couple years).

BC