Reflection on the demise of the Pac-12 - Printable Version
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Reflection on the demise of the Pac-12 - BostonCard - 08-04-2023
To paraphrase Jeff Goldblum, playing Dr. Ian Malcolm in Jurassic Park, “Your Athletic Directors were so preoccupied with whether they could, they didn't stop to think if they should.”
You might think that I would feel like my decision to “check out” of college sports a few months ago is now vindicated, but I really feel a melancholy about the demise of the Pac-12 and the fact that when the music stopped, it appears that Stanford is left without a seat. I also feel bad for my friends on this board and others who have remained fans. I saw Matt’s post a few weeks ago about the importance of football, and while I don’t really agree, who am I to deny him the joy that comes with being a part of “Big Time” football, however one defines it in the context of Stanford. I also feel for longtime fans like Bob, who I don’t think will ever come right out and say it, but who likely are doing the math on whether their beloved sports will survive in any way in this new reality. Mostly, though, I feel for the athletes, who were lured to Stanford with an implicit promise that first rate academics and Div. I Athletics can work synergistically, even as the environment has increasingly demonstrated that they are a cross-current, and the NCAA has stopped pretending that they ought to be.
It is easy to see how the story unfolded, almost as a Greek tragedy, where everyone’s individual actions were completely rational and understandable, and yet, when all is said and done, we are now in a place where I must ask, “What the hell are we doing here?” You start in a situation where academic institutions exist to educate their students to become future leaders. And certainly athletics plays a role in that; the data on the success of NCAA athletes after graduation is, on the whole quite good, and I have long bought into the idea that the discipline, leadership, teamwork, and other aspects that required for excelling in sports are applicable to excelling in life. And, sure, if television stations want to broadcast games and throw millions of dollars at a school for the right to show viewers ads, it’s not hard to blame schools for saying “why not”, even as filling out television windows has meant that games are at less convenient times for fans who want to see them, or that athletes are leaving the Palouse after midnight, or that adding a twelfth game, and then a conference championship, and then up to four playoff games, increases the time demands on athletes and the risk of injury, while not adding anything to their chances of academic success or their compensation. And so, who can blame the athletes for demanding a piece of the pie, or at least to get paid for their name, image, and likeness. And then, it is easy to see how wealthy alums, whose ego is tied to the success of the athletics use this to funnel money to the athletes through collectives. And as the costs for schools go up, again, it is easy to see how they would jockey for position at conferences whose payout is better, lest they wind up, as it appears we are, left holding the bag. And, of course, the conferences are doing the same thing; nobody wants to end up as the Pac-12 has, and so there is only one thing to do when you smell blood. Never mind, again, the effect of increased demand of the travel on student athletes, or the loss of rivalries on fans. And, at the end of the day, while schools and conferences might pay lip service to the importance of academics to the NCAA, I can’t help but notice that at the end of the day, this did nothing for Stanford’s standing, because let’s face it, for a major conference to add Stanford, they would take a hit to their bottom line, because we will not bring eyeballs to televisions. Stanford is the “nice guy” who is left without a date to the prom, even as all the girls rue that their boyfriends are a-holes. I believe the economic term is “revealed preference”. Nobody gives a crap about academics.
At every step, we could, but at no step did anyone stop and think “Should we really be doing this? Is this really compatible with our mission as institutions of higher learning? Is this what is best for our student athletes?” And yet at every step, these same institutions of higher learning (and, I have no illusions, that includes Stanford) have operated in a revenue-maximizing mode. Student-athlete wellbeing? Academics? Fans? Who cares, when we can extract another few million dollars from our TV deal.
I don’t know what’s going to happen from here. While we would never in a million years sign up for the intercollegiate athletics system that exists now, inertia is tough to overcome, and there are a lot of vested interests who would rather we try to cling to what we have and play the game. I respect those of you who do, and there is a part of me that is reluctant to advocate for getting rid of something that clearly brings you joy. But I think this is a good time to stop, reassess, and try to figure out whether the version of collegiate athletics that exists right now is still compatible with Stanford’s values. Some people here have made a case that Div. I athletics are part of Stanford’s “secret sauce” as the only top-5 ranked school which also operates the most historically successful and diversified athletics program in the country. That is a tough thing to give up. But in the large scheme of things, intercollegiate athletics is listed under “Auxiliary activities” in Stanford’s financial report. It is a mere rounding error in comparison to the total consolidated operating revenues of $15.1 billion (with a “b”) dollars. It likely plays an outsized role in the consciousness of fans, but there are ever fewer ones, and while some students certainly consider it part of the special sauce, many others (I would venture that it is most undergrads, and the vast majority of non-alum graduate students) don’t actually care about Stanford’s athletic prowess. It would be one thing if I believed that intercollegiate athletics was still about the “collegiate” part, but since I no longer believe it is, it really is hard for me to continue to support Stanford athletics in its current form. And while I feel a bit sorry for the student-athletes, as an ever increasing number have used the portal to pursue greener pastures (including in sports outside of football, including women’s basketball, men’s swimming, and just the other day women’s swimming), do many of them even view Stanford academics as the other half of the secret sauce. So, while I do realize that I have let a lot of cynism and disillusionment creep into my assessment, I do hope that Stanford takes advantage of this opportunity to hop off treadmill. It’s been a great ride, but all good things must end at some point.
RE: Reflection on the demise of the Pac-12 - pefloresjr - 08-04-2023
We've missed you Boston Card. I also don't know what will happen but I am closer to your point of view than some others on this board and I have season tickets to football, WVB and WBB. I LOVE Stanford sports. But, the current national champ in women's hoops is a pay to play mercenary team. Texas is currently over bidding to buy a competitive beach volleyball team because there aren't many teams and it's easy to get in the game. I agree that it is time to step back and re-assess what we want Stanford sports to be. Going to the Big10 in the short term would feel like vindication of our place in the sports world but I fear it would only be prolonging the inevitable. Feels like a disfunctional, abusive relationship.
I don't plan to give up the Cardboard despite the changes to Stanford sports. I hope you can find your way back even if it is for selected threads. I really am going to watch my noir movie now.
Cheers,
Pete F.
RE: Reflection on the demise of the Pac-12 - chrisk - 08-04-2023
That's a great assessment, Boston Card.
While some fans are decrying the professionializaion of college sports, one part of professional sports that would have benefited college sports is a strict governance structure. The NCAA has been completely ineffective in that role and is coming around to the idea that it needs legislation to bring things under control. Legislation might have been feasible and worked a decade ago, but at this point, it is a day late and a dollar short.
RE: Reflection on the demise of the Pac-12 - vataha - 08-05-2023
SU football fan starting in ‘69 Plunkett (Jesse Freitas) Bunce. Gene Washington was still emanating from the old wooden bowl.
Seen a lot of stuff. Worked in the AD. This is sad.
Our conference was all I knew. Now dissolved.
Yeah, I’m…….. I don’t know.
RE: Reflection on the demise of the Pac-12 - PersonalLegend - 08-05-2023
The revealed preference has been there all along… BC, your essay is so right. It puts a little too little blame on the leaders at Stanford, however.
We have tolerated the refusal of so many Stanford folks to admit that a healthy football program is the key to a healthy athletic program at this level.
Now we sit here with a football program in tatters, with a figurehead athletic director who is not a change leader or even a factor as far as I can tell, with no university president, and with an institutional hierarchy mired in scandal and distraction. These are things that ringing up the next Silicon Valley billionaire for a check cannot fix.
This one has already played out for years in the worst dreams of all of us who knew Shaw was destroying the program through apathy and inaction even after milking it nicely for so long…all of us who knew that the Stanford brand and decades of directors cup wins mattered not if we couldn’t field decent money sports teams…all of us who knew that the magic of Stanford’s academic and athletic combination only mattered if the athletics were relevant in the big sports.
We decided to hire an athletic director with no cred in the big sports. To tolerate mediocrity or worse in basketball and football. We decided to get distracted by minor financial issues in minor sports. We decided to tolerate scandal and mismanagement revealed in Varsity Blues.
We didn’t realize that we were losing the culture while we were losing the games. Further to that, we didn’t realize that our irrelevance would be left naked, exposed, and rotting with a rapid demise of our erstwhile conference money train.
“We’re not Nebraska!”
Those were the good old days.
RE: Reflection on the demise of the Pac-12 - Maple Leaf - 08-05-2023
Mandel: Pac-12’s demise is story of 12 years of hubris, apathy, astounding mismanagement - The Athletic
excellent article.
RE: Reflection on the demise of the Pac-12 - marchballer - 08-05-2023
Crazy to think if realignment had happened in 2016, we likely wouldn’t have been left out.
RE: Reflection on the demise of the Pac-12 - BobK - 08-05-2023
Great post Boston Card which is why you are needed here
Plus a Talking Heads paraphrase.
I’m totally pissed and will say more later but off to breakfast with Phogge who I’ll allow to say for 10. minutes Stanford is now San Francisco State.
RE: Reflection on the demise of the Pac-12 - BobK - 08-05-2023
Well the good news for me is that track and field should continue as is. Of course recruiting could fall off
If not ACC bIG or Big 22
WBB: recruiting falls way off Tara retires the portal flies open
WVB: recruiting falls way off Coaches leave the portal flies open
Softball: recruiting falls off after than unknown but the portal flies open
Baseball: big unknown
RE: Reflection on the demise of the Pac-12 - Nan3cy - 08-05-2023
https://slate.com/culture/2023/08/pac-12-schools-left-conference-death-big-ten-football.html
Seems to put the blame where it belongs, which I guess is pretty much everywhere...
RE: Reflection on the demise of the Pac-12 - CardinalSagehen - 08-05-2023
There's a strong temptation to be overly dramatic with respect to Stanford's plight in the realignment fiasco.
Let's take a breath and realize one thing. Based on its endowment, Stanford has choices that most of the other Pac-12 refugees didn't have.
The AD and President were incompetent, but maybe things are ending up the way they should. Just as an example, one can easily imagine an Independent football schedule combined with Mountain West membership in all other sports. This maintains a reasonable student-athlete experience and level of competition. Football may need to travel a bit more, but they have the charter flights and resources to manage it. Less revenue may result in some sports being cut, but this remains a choice for the next President and AD (yes, I said it), not a financial necessity.
Stanford does not need to make the same desperate tradeoffs that other schools do. It can afford to have its cake (D1 football) and eat it (good student-athlete experience and less travel for other sports), too.
RE: Reflection on the demise of the Pac-12 - chrisk - 08-05-2023
(08-05-2023, 10:35 AM)CardinalSagehen Wrote: There's a strong temptation to be overly dramatic with respect to Stanford's plight in the realignment fiasco.
Let's take a breath and realize one thing. Based on its endowment, Stanford has choices that most of the other Pac-12 refugees didn't have.
The AD and President were incompetent, but maybe things are ending up the way they should. Just as an example, one can easily imagine an Independent football schedule combined with Mountain West membership in all other sports. This maintains a reasonable student-athlete experience and level of competition. Football may need to travel a bit more, but they have the charter flights and resources to manage it. Less revenue may result in some sports being cut, but this remains a choice for the next President and AD (yes, I said it), not a financial necessity.
Stanford does not need to make the same desperate tradeoffs that other schools do. It can afford to have its cake (D1 football) and eat it (good student-athlete experience and less travel for other sports), too.
Developing an independent football schedule anywhere close to Notre Dame’s would be tough. Even ND has an agreement with the ACC for 5 games a year.
RE: Reflection on the demise of the Pac-12 - 82lsju - 08-05-2023
Statement from the Pac-12 Conference
"Today’s news is incredibly disappointing for student-athletes, fans, alumni and staff of the Pac-12 who cherish the over 100-year history, tradition and rivalries of the Conference of Champions. We remain focused on securing the best possible future for each of our member universities."
I assume all the smart Pac-12 employees starting looking for new jobs when USC and UCLA announced they were leaving the conference last year....
RE: Reflection on the demise of the Pac-12 - lex24 - 08-05-2023
(08-05-2023, 11:40 AM)82lsju Wrote: Statement from the Pac-12 Conference
"Today’s news is incredibly disappointing for student-athletes, fans, alumni and staff of the Pac-12 who cherish the over 100-year history, tradition and rivalries of the Conference of Champions. We remain focused on securing the best possible future for each of our member universities."
I assume all the smart Pac-12 employees starting looking for new jobs when USC and UCLA announced they were leaving the conference last year....
Bingo. The second that was announced the Conference was in trouble. Yet, as far as I can tell, it did nothing.
RE: Reflection on the demise of the Pac-12 - Snorlax94 - 08-05-2023
(08-05-2023, 10:48 AM)chrisk Wrote:But I think Stanford’s situation is very different due to its recent conference history . I imagine most every former Pac 12 team would love to keep playing Stanford as a non-conference game.(08-05-2023, 10:35 AM)CardinalSagehen Wrote: There's a strong temptation to be overly dramatic with respect to Stanford's plight in the realignment fiasco.
Let's take a breath and realize one thing. Based on its endowment, Stanford has choices that most of the other Pac-12 refugees didn't have.
The AD and President were incompetent, but maybe things are ending up the way they should. Just as an example, one can easily imagine an Independent football schedule combined with Mountain West membership in all other sports. This maintains a reasonable student-athlete experience and level of competition. Football may need to travel a bit more, but they have the charter flights and resources to manage it. Less revenue may result in some sports being cut, but this remains a choice for the next President and AD (yes, I said it), not a financial necessity.
Stanford does not need to make the same desperate tradeoffs that other schools do. It can afford to have its cake (D1 football) and eat it (good student-athlete experience and less travel for other sports), too.
Developing an independent football schedule anywhere close to Notre Dame’s would be tough. Even ND has an agreement with the ACC for 5 games a year.
As Sagehen said, Stanford is in a uniquely strong position.
Even when USC and UCLA announced their departures, I think they both expressed a strong desire to keep playing Stanford, just not as a Pac-12 game. It’s a tricky situation for them, too — will ucla fans be excited about games against rutgers and indiana? Those teams need stanford-usc/ucla/washington/oregon/Arizona games, also.
I could totally see an independent Stanford continuing to play 8-10 games a year against former Pac-12 teams, it’ll just be out-of-conference games for them.
RE: Reflection on the demise of the Pac-12 - chrisk - 08-05-2023
(08-05-2023, 12:08 PM)Snorlax94 Wrote:(08-05-2023, 10:48 AM)chrisk Wrote:But I think Stanford’s situation is very different due to its recent conference history . I imagine most every former Pac 12 team would love to keep playing Stanford as a non-conference game. I could see an independent Stanford locking up games against USC, UCLA, Notre Dame and Cal every year as home-and-homes — those would be local, good revenue games for all teams involved. They could probably lock up “non-conference” games with almost the entire former pac-12 — both Oregons, both Washingtons, both Arizonas.(08-05-2023, 10:35 AM)CardinalSagehen Wrote: There's a strong temptation to be overly dramatic with respect to Stanford's plight in the realignment fiasco.
Let's take a breath and realize one thing. Based on its endowment, Stanford has choices that most of the other Pac-12 refugees didn't have.
The AD and President were incompetent, but maybe things are ending up the way they should. Just as an example, one can easily imagine an Independent football schedule combined with Mountain West membership in all other sports. This maintains a reasonable student-athlete experience and level of competition. Football may need to travel a bit more, but they have the charter flights and resources to manage it. Less revenue may result in some sports being cut, but this remains a choice for the next President and AD (yes, I said it), not a financial necessity.
Stanford does not need to make the same desperate tradeoffs that other schools do. It can afford to have its cake (D1 football) and eat it (good student-athlete experience and less travel for other sports), too.
Developing an independent football schedule anywhere close to Notre Dame’s would be tough. Even ND has an agreement with the ACC for 5 games a year.
As Sagehen said, Stanford is in a uniquely strong position.
While of course Notre Dame’s football audience is much bigger, Stanford has a century of history playing games against Pac-12 rivals, and audiences on both sides would want to see them continue.
Even when USC and UCLA announced their departures, I think they both expressed a strong desire to keep playing Stanford, just tsa Pac-12 game. It’s a tricky situation for them, too — will ucla fans be excited about games against rutgers and indiana? Those teams woll need stanford, also.
USC has its non-conference games booked 4-5 years in advance. Same with UCLA. I don't think it is too likely Stanford will be playing USC or UCLA in that window, unless it begs itself into the Big 10.
RE: Reflection on the demise of the Pac-12 - Maple Leaf - 08-05-2023
Conference realignment’s winners and (many) losers after the latest upheaval - The Athletic
This article focuses on the Pac 12 schools, but also mentions some drawbacks for Big 10 schools.
RE: Reflection on the demise of the Pac-12 - Mick - 08-05-2023
(08-05-2023, 10:48 AM)chrisk Wrote:(08-05-2023, 10:35 AM)CardinalSagehen Wrote: There's a strong temptation to be overly dramatic with respect to Stanford's plight in the realignment fiasco.
Let's take a breath and realize one thing. Based on its endowment, Stanford has choices that most of the other Pac-12 refugees didn't have.
The AD and President were incompetent, but maybe things are ending up the way they should. Just as an example, one can easily imagine an Independent football schedule combined with Mountain West membership in all other sports. This maintains a reasonable student-athlete experience and level of competition. Football may need to travel a bit more, but they have the charter flights and resources to manage it. Less revenue may result in some sports being cut, but this remains a choice for the next President and AD (yes, I said it), not a financial necessity.
Stanford does not need to make the same desperate tradeoffs that other schools do. It can afford to have its cake (D1 football) and eat it (good student-athlete experience and less travel for other sports), too.
Developing an independent football schedule anywhere close to Notre Dame’s would be tough. Even ND has an agreement with the ACC for 5 games a year.
If only there were a group of proximitous D1 football schools in other conferences that need to schedule non-conference games on the West Coast each year...
(08-05-2023, 12:08 PM)Snorlax94 Wrote:(08-05-2023, 10:48 AM)chrisk Wrote:But I think Stanford’s situation is very different due to its recent conference history . I imagine most every former Pac 12 team would love to keep playing Stanford as a non-conference game.(08-05-2023, 10:35 AM)CardinalSagehen Wrote: There's a strong temptation to be overly dramatic with respect to Stanford's plight in the realignment fiasco.
Let's take a breath and realize one thing. Based on its endowment, Stanford has choices that most of the other Pac-12 refugees didn't have.
The AD and President were incompetent, but maybe things are ending up the way they should. Just as an example, one can easily imagine an Independent football schedule combined with Mountain West membership in all other sports. This maintains a reasonable student-athlete experience and level of competition. Football may need to travel a bit more, but they have the charter flights and resources to manage it. Less revenue may result in some sports being cut, but this remains a choice for the next President and AD (yes, I said it), not a financial necessity.
Stanford does not need to make the same desperate tradeoffs that other schools do. It can afford to have its cake (D1 football) and eat it (good student-athlete experience and less travel for other sports), too.
Developing an independent football schedule anywhere close to Notre Dame’s would be tough. Even ND has an agreement with the ACC for 5 games a year.
As Sagehen said, Stanford is in a uniquely strong position.
Even when USC and UCLA announced their departures, I think they both expressed a strong desire to keep playing Stanford, just not as a Pac-12 game. It’s a tricky situation for them, too — will ucla fans be excited about games against rutgers and indiana? Those teams need stanford-usc/ucla/washington/oregon/Arizona games, also.
I could totally see an independent Stanford continuing to play 8-10 games a year against former Pac-12 teams, it’ll just be out-of-conference games for them.
Sure. They can pay for the privilege. Except USC. I don't want to play the University of Spoiled Cheaters again, in any sport.
RE: Reflection on the demise of the Pac-12 - Goose - 08-05-2023
(08-05-2023, 12:21 PM)Maple Leaf Wrote: Conference realignment’s winners and (many) losers after the latest upheaval - The AthleticGreat post! Final conclusion from the above:
This article focuses on the Pac 12 schools, but also mentions some drawbacks for Big 10 schools.
Quote:I don’t buy the idea that college football is destroyed or dying. I suspect the sport will become even more popular at the top. But it lost a lot of its soul on Friday and is becoming something entirely different — and not better — for people who love the sport.While I agree with the above, I would add the qualifier that college football isn't destroyed and may be even more popular at the top IN THE SHORT TERM. Organizational moves that occur only because of market anomalies eventually become major liabilities and must be reversed. We are already seeing the struggles the major network organizations are facing to keep the money flowing. It won't persist, and when the revenue streams dry up, the structures they prop up will no longer make sense.
It has been repeatedly pointed out that college football functions as a "minor league" for the NFL. The anomaly is that this "minor league" right now makes big money. If it was actually a "solid" opportunity, the NFL would have jumped in to compete. They didn't because they know the current situation isn't "normal" and will not persist.
RE: Reflection on the demise of the Pac-12 - Leftcoast - 08-05-2023
I suspect you underestimate the appeal and legacy of college sports.
Look at basketball where a professional minor league exists side by side with college sports. It’s not the pro option which has the Television contract, March Madness tournament, brobdingnagian attendance figures, and front of sport section headlines. I follow sports pretty heavily and have no idea where the Santa Cruz “Sea Dubs” finished in their league.
Even in baseball with over a century of history I can’t tell you where the SJ Giants finished - and I attended several games.