Are basketball players employees? - Printable Version
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Are basketball players employees? - BostonCard - 02-05-2024
The NLRB regional office thinks they are at Dartmouth.
https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/39466589/nlrb-regional-official-clears-way-dartmouth-hoops-union
It will be interesting to see how far down this goes. You don't have to make a profit in order to have employees, but if student athletes are employees even in schools where there are no athletic scholarships, is there any threshold for amateurism?
BC
RE: Are basketball players employees? - norcard10 - 02-05-2024
(02-05-2024, 05:14 PM)BostonCard Wrote: The NLRB regional office thinks they are at Dartmouth.
https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/39466589/nlrb-regional-official-clears-way-dartmouth-hoops-union
It will be interesting to see how far down this goes. You don't have to make a profit in order to have employees, but if student athletes are employees even in schools where there are no athletic scholarships, is there any threshold for amateurism?
BC
College sports are a farce now with NIL and transfer portal.
RE: Are basketball players employees? - Bampa - 02-05-2024
Quote:College sports are a farce now with NIL and transfer portal.
+1000
RE: Are basketball players employees? - lex24 - 02-05-2024
(02-05-2024, 06:04 PM)Bampa Wrote:Quote:College sports are a farce now with NIL and transfer portal.
+1000
Well, if college athletes are found to be employees. You won’t have to worry about it anymore. Because that will be the end of college athletics as we know them. And universities across the country will get hit for brobdingnagian damage awards based on wage and hour claims.
RE: Are basketball players employees? - Giants - 02-05-2024
A collectively bargained contract for college athletes is coming. I don’t think there is any question about that. The sooner, the better. The current landscape is not viable for the long term. More than anything, college sports need structure where the rules are clearly spelled out and everyone understands what is (and isn’t) permitted.
RE: Are basketball players employees? - 82lsju - 02-05-2024
(02-05-2024, 05:14 PM)BostonCard Wrote: The NLRB regional office thinks they are at Dartmouth.
https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/39466589/nlrb-regional-official-clears-way-dartmouth-hoops-union
It will be interesting to see how far down this goes. You don't have to make a profit in order to have employees, but if student athletes are employees even in schools where there are no athletic scholarships, is there any threshold for amateurism?
BC
you don't even have to bring in revenue to have employees....at least not in the short term....see for example the revenue stream of many start-ups for some number of years....
(02-05-2024, 06:51 PM)Giants Wrote: A collectively bargained contract for college athletes is coming. I don’t think there is any question about that. The sooner, the better. The current landscape is not viable for the long term. More than anything, college sports need structure where the rules are clearly spelled out and everyone understands what is (and isn’t) permitted.
not to worry, the Big 10/SEC advisory group will solve the problem...
https://bigten.org/news/2024/2/2/general-big-ten-conference-southeastern-conference-form-advisory-group.aspx
RE: Are basketball players employees? - cardcrimson - 02-05-2024
(02-05-2024, 06:37 PM)lex24 Wrote:(02-05-2024, 06:04 PM)Bampa Wrote:Quote:College sports are a farce now with NIL and transfer portal.
+1000
Well, if college athletes are found to be employees. You won’t have to worry about it anymore. Because that will be the end of college athletics as we know them. And universities across the country will get hit for of immense proportions damage awards based on wage and hour claims.
Bingo. I've been mentioning PAGA mills for awhile, and no one seemed to care. They will descend upon CA schools like locusts, devouring every shred of college athletics. It will doom college sports in California first, then it will slowly trickle across the country.
RE: Are basketball players employees? - Beeg_Dawg - 02-06-2024
https://sports.yahoo.com/nlrb-rules-that-dartmouth-mens-basketball-players-are-employees-in-decision-that-challenges-ncaas-amateurism-model-004752811.html?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly9kdWNrZHVja2dvLmNvbS8&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAADTCwLo8k7CsNQ7HJg2STpX5rUENjeQYSr0NFGPtSEGjKqsPow3U8xxQdiekf1wI1Qma_bkkUZmIdk3l6Zc3SozJ9KXtAip19FrRQM9RUJVoIQZZc-AInb1dMA_EQMGpYrd10pDXvIT6-_CBV3O-TYqjxKe6BT_jZDaxFeYTBtem
Don't think there is anything new in this article.
I believe there will be a great number of schools that will simply move away from big time sports if the NCAA is not granted some sort of protection. It will be fun to watch player's react when the IRS determines their compensation is taxable. :)
RE: Are basketball players employees? - M T - 02-06-2024
Is access to a tax accountant and a CPA an allowable benefit to athletes without having to provide it for all students?
RE: Are basketball players employees? - GK3 - 02-06-2024
(02-06-2024, 11:29 AM)M T Wrote: Is access to a tax accountant and a CPA an allowable benefit to athletes without having to provide it for all students?
If the team is losing, can it go on strike and demand a new coach, or better food at the training tables, or limited practice hours.
This whole thing has become insanity.
RE: Are basketball players employees? - dabigv13 - 02-06-2024
Athletes become employees. Schools shut down sponsored sports.
...
Club sports start to become more popular. Schools pay off good athletes or give them admissions breaks so their club teams beat their rival club teams.
...
Club sports athletes unionize.
RE: Are basketball players employees? - Mick - 02-06-2024
(02-06-2024, 12:08 PM)GK3 Wrote:(02-06-2024, 11:29 AM)M T Wrote: Is access to a tax accountant and a CPA an allowable benefit to athletes without having to provide it for all students?
If the team is losing, can it go on strike and demand a new coach, or better food at the training tables, or limited practice hours.
This whole thing has become insanity.
When I was in HS, I had some thoroughly reprehensible coaches who behaved terribly and really mistreated the athletes. Let's just say if athletes were employees, my HS coaches would have regularly been called into HR's office and ultimately lost their jobs...if athletes were treated like employees. Somewhat like the experience that John Rittman had as Stanford's softball coach. Incidentally, Rittman has gone 154-45 (.774) since he founded Clemson's program in 2020.
RE: Are basketball players employees? - BobK - 02-06-2024
Rittman mistreated athletes ? No
Rittman mistreated athletes ? No
RE: Are basketball players employees? - dabigv13 - 02-06-2024
Speaking about HS coaches, the reasoning that applies for why Dartmouth basketball players are employees would seemingly apply in large measure to high school athletes as well.
Quote:Dartmouth determines when the players will practice and play, as well as when they will review film, engage with alumni, or take part in other team-related activities,” Sacks wrote. “When the basketball team participates in away games, Dartmouth determines when and where the players will travel, eat and sleep.
The only difference really is compensation, but athletes at Dartmouth don't get a scholarship or money. The things they get that other students don't get are things like game tickets and equipment and clothes. Some articles talk about housing and food but I'm not sure that applies since that would all be through need based financial aid I think. Some articles such as in NYT and WaPo don't mention food or housing, just tickets, apparel, equipment. Would welcome a link to the actual ruling.
So I guess I was an employee of my high school because I got a jersey and shorts for cross country? Or teachers bought me food after a science olympiad event? Slippery slope.
RE: Are basketball players employees? - BigJohn043 - 02-06-2024
(02-06-2024, 03:51 PM)dabigv13 Wrote: Speaking about HS coaches, the reasoning that applies for why Dartmouth basketball players are employees would seemingly apply in large measure to high school athletes as well.
Quote:Dartmouth determines when the players will practice and play, as well as when they will review film, engage with alumni, or take part in other team-related activities,” Sacks wrote. “When the basketball team participates in away games, Dartmouth determines when and where the players will travel, eat and sleep.
The only difference really is compensation, but athletes at Dartmouth don't get a scholarship or money. The things they get that other students don't get are things like game tickets and equipment and clothes. Some articles talk about housing and food but I'm not sure that applies since that would all be through need based financial aid I think. Some articles such as in NYT and WaPo don't mention food or housing, just tickets, apparel, equipment. Would welcome a link to the actual ruling.
So I guess I was an employee of my high school because I got a jersey and shorts for cross country? Or teachers bought me food after a science olympiad event? Slippery slope.
And aren't all of the kids in drama employees as well? The school decides when they rehearse, when they perform, etc. For that matter, the school sets the school day so are all students employees?
This is just all flat stupid.
RE: Are basketball players employees? - 82lsju - 02-06-2024
(02-06-2024, 03:51 PM)dabigv13 Wrote: The only difference really is compensation, but athletes at Dartmouth don't get a scholarship or money. The things they get that other students don't get are things like game tickets and equipment and clothes. Some articles talk about housing and food but I'm not sure that applies since that would all be through need based financial aid I think. Some articles such as in NYT and WaPo don't mention food or housing, just tickets, apparel, equipment. Would welcome a link to the actual ruling.
but don't many of them getting an admission preference for being an athlete so would that make any financial aid dependent on them being an athlete and be compensation?
RE: Are basketball players employees? - dabigv13 - 02-06-2024
Maybe? But that sounds tenuous and I don't think the players were making that argument from what I have been able to glean from the news. Again I haven't been able to find a document with the actual ruling.
I did read one article that was more specific that the benefit of lodging and food was related to when they were traveling for away games.
It seems like a disingenuous argument by the players. Did they really go to Dartmouth to play basketball to get Dartmouth branded workout gear and game tickets and some meals and lodging at away games? Or did they go to Dartmouth for an Ivy League degree that they may not have otherwise been able to get?
RE: Are basketball players employees? - fullmetal - 02-06-2024
Those international recruits are going to get their student visas reexamined...I'm pretty sure intl students on student visas aren't allowed to be employees, but I could be wrong.
RE: Are basketball players employees? - 82lsju - 02-07-2024
(02-06-2024, 11:18 PM)fullmetal Wrote: Those international recruits are going to get their student visas reexamined...I'm pretty sure intl students on student visas aren't allowed to be employees, but I could be wrong.
maybe they will get H1B visas as the pool of job seekers with those specific skills may be limited in some areas....
![[Image: 240_F_136706734_KWhNBhLvY5XTlZVocpxFQK1FfKNOYbMj.jpg]](https://t4.ftcdn.net/jpg/01/36/70/67/240_F_136706734_KWhNBhLvY5XTlZVocpxFQK1FfKNOYbMj.jpg){kind=small}
RE: Are basketball players employees? - 82lsju - 03-08-2024
Quote:Cardinal House (C-House) will deliberate on whether Stanford student-athletes should be considered employees at its upcoming spring meeting, said Megan Olomu, a senior women’s sprinter and co-president of the Student-Athlete Advisory Committee (SAAC).
Ololmu told The Daily that Athletics Director Bernard Muir spoke with the athletes at the last C-House meeting, a quarterly gathering that hosts coach-appointed representatives from each of the 36 teams, and encouraged them to discuss student-athlete employment. C-House’s spring meeting is scheduled for April 24.
The discussion comes after a National Labor Relations Board (NLRB) ruling that Dartmouth men’s basketball players are employees of the school. On Tuesday, the team voted to unionize and join Service Employees International Union Local 560, which currently represents some Dartmouth workers.
https://stanforddaily.com/2024/03/07/athletes-to-deliberate-employment-status-post-dartmouth-unionization/?utm_content=Mar-08-2024%3Futm_campaign%3Ddigest&utm_content=Mar-08-2024