Clemson sues to exit ACC - Printable Version
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Clemson sues to exit ACC - 82lsju - 03-19-2024
will be interesting to see how this and the FSU cases develop.
https://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/39765481/clemson-files-lawsuit-acc-exorbitant-exit-fees
RE: Clemson sues to exit ACC - TonyLima - 03-19-2024
Wow. Just wow.
RE: Clemson sues to exit ACC - jacket3ree - 03-19-2024
It's the final countdown....(Actually, I hate that song.)
I love the law. Spend truckloads of money for lawyers to make "unbreakable" contracts so that other layers can make just as much money breaking them.
Clemson and Free Shoes U want out and want to force the ACC into a settlement. A strategy taught in law school, right? I have zero faith in Tobacco Road leadership and rumor has it that Miami, UNC, NC State, Virginia, and Vippi Sue aren't far behind. Idiots. Carolina has run the ACC with an iron fist since 1953 and they want to crawl in bed with the likes of Alabama, Tennessee, and Georgia? Have fun! Hopefully, the ACC learned their Maryland lesson, but something tells me "nope".
Stanford made a brobdingnagian mistake joining this conference, but might it get unanticipated relief as it implodes. Maybe take proactive action and get ready to get the band back together. I'll be rooting hard for USC, UCLA, U Dub, and the Dux to fail miserably (but I guess they can wipe away their loser tears with all that cash) and come to their regional senses.
Where are these clowns (looking at you UNC, NC State, Miami, FSU, Clemson, Virginia, Virginia Tech) going? You really think you'll dominate those 30-team super conferences?
Instead of the slow death that is happening, I'd rather see the rapture right now. NASCAR universities and there is still value in a free education and sports are fun universities, so good luck in a poorly run professional league comrades! So much internet entertainment. We'd need to spend massive money on stadium tarps, but it's not like the place is filled now.
RE: Clemson sues to exit ACC - StanfordMatt - 03-19-2024
(03-19-2024, 12:57 PM)jacket3ree Wrote: Where are these clowns (looking at you UNC, NC State, Miami, FSU, Clemson, Virginia, Virginia Tech) going? You really think you'll dominate those 30-team super conferences?
The decision makers at these schools have little concern for dominating. Their concern lies in cashing the largest checks possible.
RE: Clemson sues to exit ACC - qwerty49 - 03-19-2024
Sure, it’s all about getting settlement check.
But maybe our resident legal experts can answer this — what if Clemson (and FSU and anyone else) just went ahead and booked home-and-home series with the likes of Bama, Michigan, U$C, etc etc? How could any governance infrastructure prevent the teams from physically meeting on the field? (Assume for a minute that the SEC wanted Clemson - either now or in the future - would it really prevent Clemson/Bama from happening? How? By suspending Bama? Right….as if.)
I really wonder how much teeth these conference structures have. What’s to prevent Fox or ESPN or whoever to negotiate a separate TV deal to show a “bootleg” game or games?
Other than $$ I don’t see a whole lot of things that can deter a school or schools from going rogue.
RE: Clemson sues to exit ACC - Maple Leaf - 03-19-2024
(03-19-2024, 04:46 PM)qwerty49 Wrote: Sure, it’s all about getting settlement check.
But maybe our resident legal experts can answer this — what if Clemson (and FSU and anyone else) just went ahead and booked home-and-home series with the likes of Bama, Michigan, U$C, etc etc? How could any governance infrastructure prevent the teams from physically meeting on the field? (Assume for a minute that the SEC wanted Clemson - either now or in the future - would it really prevent Clemson/Bama from happening? How? By suspending Bama? Right….as if.)
I really wonder how much teeth these conference structures have. What’s to prevent Fox or ESPN or whoever to negotiate a separate TV deal to show a “bootleg” game or games?
Other than $$ I don’t see a whole lot of things that can deter a school or schools from going rogue.
You have identified a real potential problem that could cause the current realignment of conferences to imploded. You will have promoters lining up matches each off season and then going to fox, espn or whoever will pay the most, with those two schools each getting 1/3 and the promoter getting 1/3 just for grins, then add in sports betting, and playing the top games in Vegas.
RE: Clemson sues to exit ACC - 2006alum - 03-19-2024
(03-19-2024, 04:46 PM)qwerty49 Wrote: Sure, it’s all about getting settlement check.
But maybe our resident legal experts can answer this — what if Clemson (and FSU and anyone else) just went ahead and booked home-and-home series with the likes of Bama, Michigan, U$C, etc etc? How could any governance infrastructure prevent the teams from physically meeting on the field? (Assume for a minute that the SEC wanted Clemson - either now or in the future - would it really prevent Clemson/Bama from happening? How? By suspending Bama? Right….as if.)
I really wonder how much teeth these conference structures have. What’s to prevent Fox or ESPN or whoever to negotiate a separate TV deal to show a “bootleg” game or games?
Other than $$ I don’t see a whole lot of things that can deter a school or schools from going rogue.
"Other than $$" is no small caveat. They'd face breach of contract lawsuits for the sum remaining amount of those agreements. The ACC has the grant of rights and the early exit penalties. The networks all have agreements with the conferences. Not only would those agreements prohibit the kinds of "bootlet" deals you're referring, but even if Fox or ESPN negotiated separate TV deals to show bootleg games, they'd still have to pay the ACC schools the money promised AND air those games as promised.
The reason Clemson and FSU are suing is because even in the world of seemingly unlimited college football money, there's still too much money at stake for them to walk away in breach. And the SEC and B1G are smart enough to smell a tortious interference lawsuit from a mile away and sit back counting their dough in the meantime.
RE: Clemson sues to exit ACC - jacket3ree - 03-19-2024
Nothing is stopping any school from leaving the conference other than the exit fee and loss of broadcast rights through 2036. Someone had the FSU exit fee pegged at half a billion dollars. Somebody on one of the Cal sites totally gets the GOR from a legal standpoint and that analysis is making the rounds. That person says it is pretty lock tight, but lawyers do get $500 per hour to pick locks.
This seems to be the we'll be as big a pain in the ass conference partners as you can imagine so you'll do anything to stop dealing with us strategy.
In my dream world, all conference members leave but Tech and Stanford, each collecting billions to be split among current and former season ticket holders as some sort of Texas or Alaska energy dividend for all the past suffering. Then I can watch college sports I no longer care about in the comfort of a second home somewhere.
RE: Clemson sues to exit ACC - TonyLima - 03-19-2024
(03-19-2024, 12:57 PM)jacket3ree Wrote: It's the final countdown....(Actually, I hate that song.)
I love the law. Spend truckloads of money for lawyers to make "unbreakable" contracts so that other layers can make just as much money breaking them.
Clemson and Free Shoes U want out and want to force the ACC into a settlement. A strategy taught in law school, right? I have zero faith in Tobacco Road leadership and rumor has it that Miami, UNC, NC State, Virginia, and Vippi Sue aren't far behind. Idiots. Carolina has run the ACC with an iron fist since 1953 and they want to crawl in bed with the likes of Alabama, Tennessee, and Georgia? Have fun! Hopefully, the ACC learned their Maryland lesson, but something tells me "nope".
Stanford made a of immense proportions mistake joining this conference, but might it get unanticipated relief as it implodes. Maybe take proactive action and get ready to get the band back together. I'll be rooting hard for USC, UCLA, U Dub, and the Dux to fail miserably (but I guess they can wipe away their loser tears with all that cash) and come to their regional senses.
Where are these clowns (looking at you UNC, NC State, Miami, FSU, Clemson, Virginia, Virginia Tech) going? You really think you'll dominate those 30-team super conferences?
Instead of the slow death that is happening, I'd rather see the rapture right now. NASCAR universities and there is still value in a free education and sports are fun universities, so good luck in a poorly run professional league comrades! So much internet entertainment. We'd need to spend massive money on stadium tarps, but it's not like the place is filled now.
*Felony State U.
RE: Clemson sues to exit ACC - 82lsju - 03-19-2024
(03-19-2024, 06:33 PM)jacket3ree Wrote: Nothing is stopping any school from leaving the conference other than the exit fee and loss of broadcast rights through 2036. Someone had the FSU exit fee pegged at half a billion dollars. Somebody on one of the Cal sites totally gets the GOR from a legal standpoint and that analysis is making the rounds. That person says it is pretty lock tight, but lawyers do get $500 per hour to pick locks.
This seems to be the we'll be as big a pain in the ass conference partners as you can imagine so you'll do anything to stop dealing with us strategy.
In my dream world, all conference members leave but Tech and Stanford, each collecting billions to be split among current and former season ticket holders as some sort of Texas or Alaska energy dividend for all the past suffering. Then I can watch college sports I no longer care about in the comfort of a second home somewhere.
one way this works out with two "super conferences", everyone else is in the "minor leagues", do the minor league teams end up as the development league for the "super conferences" where many of their good players "transfer up"??? Will this work??
RE: Clemson sues to exit ACC - Goose - 03-19-2024
(03-19-2024, 07:48 PM)82lsju Wrote: one way this works out with two "super conferences", everyone else is in the "minor leagues", do the minor league teams end up as the development league for the "super conferences" where many of their good players "transfer up"??? Will this work??My opinion is that teams that are not part of the "super conferences" fairly quickly drop the sport. These "minor league" conferences won't be getting the revenue to support a "lavish" player lifestyle. Once it becomes clear that none of the "good" players will remain at the school that developed them, fans will quickly lose interest. Since none of these players graduate from the school in which they initially enrolled, the administration (and faculty) will rightly question why have the sport at all. There is no school loyalty and it costs money (as opposed to making money like it does now).
Minor league baseball teams are created to be baseball teams. They get support from the major league teams with which they affiliate. If they lose money they eventually fold (as many have). Universities aren't created to support football teams and there will be no affiliate that will make up the losses. IMO it will not work.
RE: Clemson sues to exit ACC - gailtate - 03-20-2024
It was just a matter of time before Clemson (et. al.) would want to leave. The arrival of top-tier academies in the eyes of the more well-heeled neighbors, would surely drive down property value. "Uh-oh, Cal and Stanford?! There goes the neighborhood. We're outta here." And how revealing as to the worldview of Tobacco Road.
RE: Clemson sues to exit ACC - StanfordMatt - 03-20-2024
(03-19-2024, 07:59 PM)Goose Wrote:(03-19-2024, 07:48 PM)82lsju Wrote: one way this works out with two "super conferences", everyone else is in the "minor leagues", do the minor league teams end up as the development league for the "super conferences" where many of their good players "transfer up"??? Will this work??My opinion is that teams that are not part of the "super conferences" fairly quickly drop the sport. These "minor league" conferences won't be getting the revenue to support a "lavish" player lifestyle. Once it becomes clear that none of the "good" players will remain at the school that developed them, fans will quickly lose interest. Since none of these players graduate from the school in which they initially enrolled, the administration (and faculty) will rightly question why have the sport at all. There is no school loyalty and it costs money (as opposed to making money like it does now).
Minor league baseball teams are created to be baseball teams. They get support from the major league teams with which they affiliate. If they lose money they eventually fold (as many have). Universities aren't created to support football teams and there will be no affiliate that will make up the losses. IMO it will not work.
This dynamic has been a way of life for the MAC and Sun Belt for years.
RE: Clemson sues to exit ACC - Goose - 03-20-2024
(03-20-2024, 09:50 AM)StanfordMatt Wrote:I would argue that no, it hasn't been a way of life for years. Only quite recently has it been true that athletes can transfer to another school easily. That is a big hit on alumni/student body loyalty. You can certainly live with a program that doesn't make money if it has the support of alumni and the school at large. The alumni pony up and the school supports their team. It is "worth it" despite the difficulty. It can be regarded as a "team building" experience for all concerned :-). IMO this enthusiasm will go away when the (possibly few) good players leave whenever they get "a better offer". The myth that these are "our lads" becomes unsupportable in the face of such behavior. It will inevitably take it's toll.(03-19-2024, 07:59 PM)Goose Wrote:(03-19-2024, 07:48 PM)82lsju Wrote: one way this works out with two "super conferences", everyone else is in the "minor leagues", do the minor league teams end up as the development league for the "super conferences" where many of their good players "transfer up"??? Will this work??My opinion is that teams that are not part of the "super conferences" fairly quickly drop the sport. These "minor league" conferences won't be getting the revenue to support a "lavish" player lifestyle. Once it becomes clear that none of the "good" players will remain at the school that developed them, fans will quickly lose interest. Since none of these players graduate from the school in which they initially enrolled, the administration (and faculty) will rightly question why have the sport at all. There is no school loyalty and it costs money (as opposed to making money like it does now).
Minor league baseball teams are created to be baseball teams. They get support from the major league teams with which they affiliate. If they lose money they eventually fold (as many have). Universities aren't created to support football teams and there will be no affiliate that will make up the losses. IMO it will not work.
This dynamic has been a way of life for the MAC and Sun Belt for years.
RE: Clemson sues to exit ACC - GK3 - 03-20-2024
(03-19-2024, 05:54 PM)2006alum Wrote:Why do they have to do anything. Now days contracts are hardly worth the cost of the paper they are printed on. The cost of defending these contracts in court could be enormous and no guarantee you will win. Competing in Div 1 is simply not going to be worth the cost for a school like Stanford. Just go judge shopping until you find one that thinks your way.(03-19-2024, 04:46 PM)qwerty49 Wrote: Sure, it’s all about getting settlement check.
But maybe our resident legal experts can answer this — what if Clemson (and FSU and anyone else) just went ahead and booked home-and-home series with the likes of Bama, Michigan, U$C, etc etc? How could any governance infrastructure prevent the teams from physically meeting on the field? (Assume for a minute that the SEC wanted Clemson - either now or in the future - would it really prevent Clemson/Bama from happening? How? By suspending Bama? Right….as if.)
I really wonder how much teeth these conference structures have. What’s to prevent Fox or ESPN or whoever to negotiate a separate TV deal to show a “bootleg” game or games?
Other than $$ I don’t see a whole lot of things that can deter a school or schools from going rogue.
"Other than $$" is no small caveat. They'd face breach of contract lawsuits for the sum remaining amount of those agreements. The ACC has the grant of rights and the early exit penalties. The networks all have agreements with the conferences. Not only would those agreements prohibit the kinds of "bootlet" deals you're referring, but even if Fox or ESPN negotiated separate TV deals to show bootleg games, they'd still have to pay the ACC schools the money promised AND air those games as promised.
The reason Clemson and FSU are suing is because even in the world of seemingly unlimited college football money, there's still too much money at stake for them to walk away in breach. And the SEC and B1G are smart enough to smell a tortious interference lawsuit from a mile away and sit back counting their dough in the meantime.
RE: Clemson sues to exit ACC - jacket3ree - 03-20-2024
The "magnificent 7" were talking about leaving the ACC before the Pac12 imploded. It has nothing to do about some concern over high brow schools from the Bay Area joining. The three "no" votes are the strongest indicators of who really wants out, because 15 ACC members is a magic number with ESPN (I think) for the viability of the conference. The more schools that belong to the conference, the more difficult it is to break it up en masse. That's the view from the Eastern Seaboard, Tobacco Road, Piedmont, New Jersey of the South (Florida), and whatever the eff they call Louisville. Oh yeah, some outpost in Indiana. As soon as they broke up the Big East, the ACC stopped being a regional conference. I do miss the purity of the old 8-team league, though.
From what I gather, no one is shaking in their boots over Cal and Stanford. A lot of the conference thinks SMU is going to be sneaky powerful really quickly. Willing to throw tons of cash at the enterprise.
P.S. If contracts aren't worth the paper they are printed on or whatever DocuSign costs, boy did I just waste a couple hours of my life in that webinar.
RE: Clemson sues to exit ACC - Hieronymus - 03-20-2024
(03-19-2024, 07:59 PM)Goose Wrote:(03-19-2024, 07:48 PM)82lsju Wrote: one way this works out with two "super conferences", everyone else is in the "minor leagues", do the minor league teams end up as the development league for the "super conferences" where many of their good players "transfer up"??? Will this work??My opinion is that teams that are not part of the "super conferences" fairly quickly drop the sport. These "minor league" conferences won't be getting the revenue to support a "lavish" player lifestyle. Once it becomes clear that none of the "good" players will remain at the school that developed them, fans will quickly lose interest. Since none of these players graduate from the school in which they initially enrolled, the administration (and faculty) will rightly question why have the sport at all. There is no school loyalty and it costs money (as opposed to making money like it does now).
Minor league baseball teams are created to be baseball teams. They get support from the major league teams with which they affiliate. If they lose money they eventually fold (as many have). Universities aren't created to support football teams and there will be no affiliate that will make up the losses. IMO it will not work.
And we mostly know what minor league football is worth - some large negative number. See NFL Europe, XFL, USFL etc. The college brands somehow have made college football an immense business, but I agree a clearly lower level of college football is unlikely to be very lucrative.
RE: Clemson sues to exit ACC - Spiny_Norman - 03-20-2024
I think it is valid to ask if major conference football is essential to Stanford Athletics. Or rather is the money from major conference football essential to Stanford Athletics? From what I can tell, the University will be heavily subsidizing Athletics for at least the next 7 years as Stanford gives back a share of its share of the ACC tier 1 media rights. This will enable Stanford to continue to offer 36 sports (or close to it, I still think a reckoning is coming where a few sports are cut for budget reasons).
If Stanford drops down to a lesser FBS conference or to a lower division, the current broad-based Athletic program is viable if the University will continue to subsidize it.
RE: Clemson sues to exit ACC - dabigv13 - 03-20-2024
Is it viable if you're playing Mountain West competition though? Would the best athletes in their sports want to come to Stanford for that? And if not then what's really the point.
RE: Clemson sues to exit ACC - Mick - 03-20-2024
(03-20-2024, 05:38 PM)Spiny_Norman Wrote: I think it is valid to ask if major conference football is essential to Stanford Athletics. Or rather is the money from major conference football essential to Stanford Athletics? From what I can tell, the University will be heavily subsidizing Athletics for at least the next 7 years as Stanford gives back a share of its share of the ACC tier 1 media rights. This will enable Stanford to continue to offer 36 sports (or close to it, I still think a reckoning is coming where a few sports are cut for budget reasons).
If Stanford drops down to a lesser FBS conference or to a lower division, the current broad-based Athletic program is viable if the University will continue to subsidize it.
Always thought Stanford should be in the MWC anyway. I'd go to Fresno, Hawaii, Las Vegas, San Diego, Berkeley, Reno, etc. for away games.