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God and Man at Notre Dame - Link Corrected - Printable Version

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God and Man at Notre Dame - Link Corrected - threepointer - 11-19-2024

This is an interesting article that points out how important it was for Notre Dame to be invited into the American Association of Universities.  Food for thought.

God and Man at Notre Dame


The AAU includes 71 distinguished public and private research universities dedicated to improving human life through education, research, and discovery.

The Pac-12.  All of the former Pac-12 schools were members of the AAU (83%).  Only Oregon State and Washington State were not members.

The Big 10 has 18 members, 17 of which are members of the AAU (94%).  The Big 10 is head and shoulders above the remainder of the large conferences.  This is very important to the Big 10 for repetitional bragging rights.  Nebraska used to be a member but was booted in 2010 for not meeting standards of the AAU.   Logically, Cal and Stanford should be in the Big 10 on this basis.

The ACC has 16 members, Nine are members of the AAU (56%) - This includes Duke, Georgia Tech, Stanford, Cal, Miami, North Carolina, Notre Dame (not football), Pitt, UVA.  Nine are not members (BC, Clemson, FL ST, Louisville, NC State, SMU, Syracuse, VA Tech, Wake Forest).  Stanford and Cal helped raise the Academic stature of the ACC.

The Big 12 has 16 members.  Five are members of the AAU (31%).  This includes Arizona State, Arizona, Colorado, Kansas, Utah.  Ten are not members (BYU, UCF Ciunncinnati, Houston, Iowa State, Kansas State, OK State, TCU, Texas Tech, West Virginia).

The SEC has 16 members.  Five are members of the AAU (31%).  This includes Florida, Missouri, Texas, Texas A&M, Vanderbilt.  Nine are not members (Alabama, Arkansas, Auburn, Georgia, Kentucky, LSU, Oklahoma, Ole Miss, South Carolina, Tennessee)

American Athletic Conference has 16 members.  Four are members of the AAU (25%).  This includes Rice, South Florida, Tulane, Vanderbilt.  Twelve are not members (Army, Navy, Temple, Old Dominion, East Carolina, Charlotte, Memphis, Alabama-Birmingham, Tulsa, Wichita State, North Texas, Texas-San Antonio).

So 40 Division I schools comprise 56% of the AAU.  The remaining 31 are:
8 - Ivies
6 - UC schools (Davis, Irvine, Riverside, San Diego, Santa Barbara, Santa Cruz).
Others:  Cal Tech, MIT, Carnegie Mellon, Johns Hopkins, Stony Brook, Buffalo, Brandeis, Case Western, Emory, George Washington, NYU, Wash U, McGill, Toronto)

RE: God and Man at Notre Dame - oldalum - 11-19-2024

I'm curious how Vanderbilt counts for two conferences?

RE: God and Man at Notre Dame - CompSci87 - 11-19-2024

(11-19-2024, 07:03 PM)threepointer Wrote:  This is an interesting article that points out how important it was for Notre Dame to be invited into the American Association of Universities.  Food for thought.

God and Man at Notre Dame
The link above does not go to an article about Notre Dame. It goes to the list of AAU members.

Googling, I think this was the intended link: https://www.city-journal.org/article/god-and-man-at-notre-dame

RE: God and Man at Notre Dame - cardcrimson - 11-19-2024

I'm perplexed. Why do we care>?

RE: God and Man at Notre Dame - threepointer - 11-20-2024

(11-19-2024, 07:36 PM)oldalum Wrote:  I'm curious how Vanderbilt counts for two conferences?

Vanderbilt plays major sports in the SEC but is an affiliate of the American Athletic Conference in other sports.

RE: God and Man at Notre Dame - Mick - 11-20-2024

(11-19-2024, 07:03 PM)threepointer Wrote:  This is an interesting article that points out how important it was for Notre Dame to be invited into the American Association of Universities.  Food for thought.

God and Man at Notre Dame

Interesting. The top two ranked universities not a member of the AAU are both Catholic colleges, Boston College and Georgetown.

RE: God and Man at Notre Dame - Canalejas - 11-20-2024

(11-20-2024, 07:45 AM)Mick Wrote:  
(11-19-2024, 07:03 PM)threepointer Wrote:  This is an interesting article that points out how important it was for Notre Dame to be invited into the American Association of Universities.  Food for thought.

God and Man at Notre Dame

Interesting. The top two ranked universities not a member of the AAU are both Catholic colleges, Boston College and Georgetown.

Using which rankings? USNWR National?

RE: God and Man at Notre Dame - chrisk - 11-20-2024

(11-19-2024, 07:36 PM)oldalum Wrote:  I'm curious how Vanderbilt counts for two conferences?

Mississippi State is missing from the SEC,

RE: God and Man at Notre Dame - Link Corrected - French Rage - 11-21-2024

Even further off topic, God and Man at Yale was one of the worst pieces of crap I ever read.

RE: God and Man at Notre Dame - Mick - 11-21-2024

(11-20-2024, 06:07 PM)Canalejas Wrote:  
(11-20-2024, 07:45 AM)Mick Wrote:  
(11-19-2024, 07:03 PM)threepointer Wrote:  This is an interesting article that points out how important it was for Notre Dame to be invited into the American Association of Universities.  Food for thought.

God and Man at Notre Dame

Interesting. The top two ranked universities not a member of the AAU are both Catholic colleges, Boston College and Georgetown.

Using which rankings? USNWR National?

Yes.

RE: God and Man at Notre Dame - Canalejas - 11-21-2024

(11-21-2024, 09:07 AM)Mick Wrote:  
(11-20-2024, 06:07 PM)Canalejas Wrote:  
(11-20-2024, 07:45 AM)Mick Wrote:  
(11-19-2024, 07:03 PM)threepointer Wrote:  This is an interesting article that points out how important it was for Notre Dame to be invited into the American Association of Universities.  Food for thought.

God and Man at Notre Dame

Interesting. The top two ranked universities not a member of the AAU are both Catholic colleges, Boston College and Georgetown.

Using which rankings? USNWR National?

Yes.

Let's see how those schools do in USNWR and in other rankings when compared to recent AAU inductee ND, to schools we know, and to perpetual AAU head-scratcher Oregon:

USNWR National
USNWR Global
Times Higher Education World University Rankings 2025
QS World University Rankings 2025
ARWU 2024
CWUR 2024
Forbes 2024-25

I think we might be able to assume that whatever criteria the AAU uses must be closer to the global rankings (USNWR Global, THE, ARWU, CWUR) than to the more famous national rankings (USNWR National, Forbes.) Though I'd be more confident in saying so if it were not for the continued membership of the University of Oregon.  

But what I wouldn't do is read any slight aimed specifically at Georgetown or Boston College.

RE: God and Man at Notre Dame - Link Corrected - BostonCard - 11-21-2024

https://www.aau.edu/who-we-are/membership-policy

Quote:The Association of American Universities (the “Association”) is an association of leading comprehensive research universities distinguished by the breadth and quality of their programs of (a) academic research and scholarship and (b) graduate education. Membership in the association is by invitation. The Association maintains a standing Membership Committee, which periodically evaluates both non-member universities for possible membership and current members for continued membership, with the goal of ensuring that the Association in fact comprises comparable leading research-intensive universities.

Seems like USNWR is probably at best only loosely correlated with their criteria, which focuses on research prowess.

BC

RE: God and Man at Notre Dame - Link Corrected - threepointer - 11-21-2024

(11-21-2024, 07:14 PM)BostonCard Wrote:  https://www.aau.edu/who-we-are/membership-policy

Quote:The Association of American Universities (the “Association”) is an association of leading comprehensive research universities distinguished by the breadth and quality of their programs of (a) academic research and scholarship and (b) graduate education. Membership in the association is by invitation. The Association maintains a standing Membership Committee, which periodically evaluates both non-member universities for possible membership and current members for continued membership, with the goal of ensuring that the Association in fact comprises comparable leading research-intensive universities.

Seems like USNWR is probably at best only loosely correlated with their criteria, which focuses on research prowess.

BC

Nebraska was booted from the AAU in 2011 - "The university lost its Association of American Universities membership in 2011, primarily for two reasons: its medical school is at the Omaha campus, not the flagship Lincoln campus; and it focuses heavily on agriculture research, which is not weighted as heavily in the AAU's eyes."

RE: God and Man at Notre Dame - Link Corrected - Canalejas - 11-21-2024

(11-21-2024, 07:29 PM)threepointer Wrote:  
(11-21-2024, 07:14 PM)BostonCard Wrote:  https://www.aau.edu/who-we-are/membership-policy

Quote:The Association of American Universities (the “Association”) is an association of leading comprehensive research universities distinguished by the breadth and quality of their programs of (a) academic research and scholarship and (b) graduate education. Membership in the association is by invitation. The Association maintains a standing Membership Committee, which periodically evaluates both non-member universities for possible membership and current members for continued membership, with the goal of ensuring that the Association in fact comprises comparable leading research-intensive universities.

Seems like USNWR is probably at best only loosely correlated with their criteria, which focuses on research prowess.

BC

Nebraska was booted from the AAU in 2011 - "The university lost its Association of American Universities membership in 2011, primarily for two reasons: its medical school is at the Omaha campus, not the flagship Lincoln campus; and it focuses heavily on agriculture research, which is not weighted as heavily in the AAU's eyes."

I think that's the spin that we've heard from Nebraska folks and those sympathetic toward them in the years since their expulsion.

On the first point, what does it mean for a med school to be "theirs?" If the medical school is not part of the Lincoln campus, and doesn't answer to its chancellor, then why should the contributions of the med school count in favor of the Lincoln campus when it comes to rankings or membership in clubs like the AAU? Note that the accomplishments of UCSF don't count toward UC Berkeley, UCLA, UC Santa Cruz, or any of their other sister campuses.  

And on the second point, wasn't it explained that agriculture research expenditures are discounted not because they are made in the field of agriculture, but because the funds were allocated through a non-competitive and more formula-based process? Given that the AAU is essentially a lobbying group for federal research grants, does it not make sense that it would emphasize being good at winning competitive grants?