Outside Topic Doncic to Lakers

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Doncic to Lakers - newguy - 02-01-2025

from ESPN: https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/43659380/sources-mavericks-trading-doncic-lakers-anthony-davis

RE: Doncic to Lakers - BostonCard - 02-02-2025

What was Dallas thinking?

BC

RE: Doncic to Lakers - Mick - 02-02-2025

(02-02-2025, 10:42 AM)BostonCard Wrote: What was Dallas thinking?

BC

It's not the worst trade in NBA history. That's still the Warriors giving up 9x NBA All Star Robert Parish and the draft choice that became 7x NBA All Star Kevin McHale for Joe Barely Cares and Ricky Brown. But...they're going to regret it.

RE: Doncic to Lakers - chrisk - 02-02-2025

Without Doncic (who would have been out anyway), the Mavs have given up 91 points this afternoon to the Cavs -- in the first half. Dallas was almost doubled up, scoring 46.

Cavs shot 66% overall in the first half, 73% from three (16-22).

RE: Doncic to Lakers - triangle2 - 02-02-2025

To me, the most interesting aspect of the trade is the degree to which it revealed internal distrust of each star from within his own organization. Maybe Luka has been much more difficult to manage behind the scenes than anyone knows. Or perhaps Dallas decided they couldn't live with a slightly overweight superstar who can't play defense against the top half of the league. On the other hand, I can see why the Lakers soured on AD. He reminds me of Embiid - really physically talented, concerning injury issues, and can't finish when you really need it.

But I generally agree that the Lakers get the much better end of the deal. Whatever issues Luka has, he's also only 25, and maybe getting traded will get him to prioritize his long-term effectiveness and health.

RE: Doncic to Lakers - TrumpCard - 02-05-2025

While the Lakers are trying to get younger, the Warriors are getting older. The deal will have its critics, but the Warriors could be good in the short term if the fit between Curry, Butler, and Draymond turns out well. Good thing the Warriors are not at all sensitive to paying the luxury tax.

RE: Doncic to Lakers - Mick - 02-05-2025

(02-05-2025, 07:22 PM)TrumpCard Wrote: While the Lakers are trying to get younger, the Warriors are getting older. The deal will have its critics, but the Warriors could be good in the short term if the fit between Curry, Butler, and Draymond turns out well. Good thing the Warriors are not at all sensitive to paying the luxury tax.

I like the trade a lot. The Warriors lose a Top-10 protected 1st round pick in 2025 and 2026 and unprotected in 2027. SO Miami gets it if it's between #11 and #30 in 2025.*

They won't miss Dennis Schroder or Kyle Anderson at all. Of the 18 players who've been on Golden State's roster this year, they ranked #17 and #18 in +/- per 100 possessions at -7.2 and -12.2 respectively. Wiggins was #13 in that stat at -4.1. Schroder had the worst O-D rating at -17. Anderson was +7, Wiggins was just +2.

Butler, on the other hand, had a +22 difference between his offensive and defensive rating and was 5th on Miami with a +4.4 rating per 100 possessions.

The only thing Butler lacks is a 3 point shot. But he gets a lot of free throws and makes them, averages 17 ppg, 5.2 rebs., 4.8 assists. Can play the 2, 3 and 4. Highly aggressive.

RE: Doncic to Lakers - fullmetal - 02-05-2025

(02-02-2025, 10:42 AM)BostonCard Wrote: What was Dallas thinking?

For those not keeping track of the scuttlebutt, there's a theory that the new ownership of the Mavs (Adelson family) intends to tank the Mavs and make it a forgotten franchise so that they can move them to Vegas. The Adelsons have substantial real estate and casino dealings and experience. The counterpoint is that franchise relocations are voted on by team owners, who would probably benefit more from an expansion team in Vegas rather than a relocation, which would only benefit the Adelsons. Still, that might not stop the Adelsons from trying. Gifting the Lakers Luka Doncic might be some kind of overture to Adam Silver to keep one of the league's most valuable franchises relevant in their future post-Lebron years. With Silver's support, who knows what the Adelsons might be able to do?

Another tack is that the Adelsons are implicitly threatening a part of Texas sports culture to show that they mean business, as the Adelsons have been funding a yet-unsuccessful attempt to legalize gambling through the Texas legislature. They would love to build a casino/stadium complex in downtown Dallas featuring the Mavericks.
https://www.dallasnews.com/news/2024/11/27/miriam-adelson-sands-casino-continue-to-bankroll-pro-gambling-efforts-in-texas/

Nico Harrison, the Mavs GM, is known as the guy who flubbed Nike's pitch to Steph Curry back in 2013 when Steph was looking to sign with a shoe company. Two name errors and the presentation of a slide deck tailored for Kevin Durant being shown was enough to send Curry to Under Armour. Despite botching that pitch, Harrison stayed on at Nike until 2021, having been promoted to VP in that span. In 2021, he was hired by the Mavs (still owned by Cuban then).

People are seeing this move as more of a political/financial move for the Mavs ownership rather than a basketball move for the Mavs basketball team, and there's not a lot to deny that charge.

RE: Doncic to Lakers - newguy - 02-06-2025

(02-05-2025, 10:46 PM)fullmetal Wrote:
(02-02-2025, 10:42 AM)BostonCard Wrote: What was Dallas thinking?

For those not keeping track of the scuttlebutt, there's a theory that the new ownership of the Mavs (Adelson family) intends to tank the Mavs and make it a forgotten franchise so that they can move them to Vegas. The Adelsons have substantial real estate and casino dealings and experience. The counterpoint is that franchise relocations are voted on by team owners, who would probably benefit more from an expansion team in Vegas rather than a relocation, which would only benefit the Adelsons. Still, that might not stop the Adelsons from trying. Gifting the Lakers Luka Doncic might be some kind of overture to Adam Silver to keep one of the league's most valuable franchises relevant in their future post-Lebron years. With Silver's support, who knows what the Adelsons might be able to do?

Another tack is that the Adelsons are implicitly threatening a part of Texas sports culture to show that they mean business, as the Adelsons have been funding a yet-unsuccessful attempt to legalize gambling through the Texas legislature. They would love to build a casino/stadium complex in downtown Dallas featuring the Mavericks.
https://www.dallasnews.com/news/2024/11/27/miriam-adelson-sands-casino-continue-to-bankroll-pro-gambling-efforts-in-texas/

Nico Harrison, the Mavs GM, is known as the guy who flubbed Nike's pitch to Steph Curry back in 2013 when Steph was looking to sign with a shoe company. Two name errors and the presentation of a slide deck tailored for Kevin Durant being shown was enough to send Curry to Under Armour. Despite botching that pitch, Harrison stayed on at Nike until 2021, having been promoted to VP in that span. In 2021, he was hired by the Mavs (still owned by Cuban then).

People are seeing this move as more of a political/financial move for the Mavs ownership rather than a basketball move for the Mavs basketball team, and there's not a lot to deny that charge.

i think that this is actually quite possible.

triangle2 - triangle2 - 02-06-2025

(02-06-2025, 09:27 AM)newguy Wrote:
(02-05-2025, 10:46 PM)fullmetal Wrote:
(02-02-2025, 10:42 AM)BostonCard Wrote: What was Dallas thinking?

For those not keeping track of the scuttlebutt, there's a theory that the new ownership of the Mavs (Adelson family) intends to tank the Mavs and make it a forgotten franchise so that they can move them to Vegas. The Adelsons have substantial real estate and casino dealings and experience. The counterpoint is that franchise relocations are voted on by team owners, who would probably benefit more from an expansion team in Vegas rather than a relocation, which would only benefit the Adelsons. Still, that might not stop the Adelsons from trying. Gifting the Lakers Luka Doncic might be some kind of overture to Adam Silver to keep one of the league's most valuable franchises relevant in their future post-Lebron years. With Silver's support, who knows what the Adelsons might be able to do?

Another tack is that the Adelsons are implicitly threatening a part of Texas sports culture to show that they mean business, as the Adelsons have been funding a yet-unsuccessful attempt to legalize gambling through the Texas legislature. They would love to build a casino/stadium complex in downtown Dallas featuring the Mavericks.
https://www.dallasnews.com/news/2024/11/27/miriam-adelson-sands-casino-continue-to-bankroll-pro-gambling-efforts-in-texas/

Nico Harrison, the Mavs GM, is known as the guy who flubbed Nike's pitch to Steph Curry back in 2013 when Steph was looking to sign with a shoe company. Two name errors and the presentation of a slide deck tailored for Kevin Durant being shown was enough to send Curry to Under Armour. Despite botching that pitch, Harrison stayed on at Nike until 2021, having been promoted to VP in that span. In 2021, he was hired by the Mavs (still owned by Cuban then).

People are seeing this move as more of a political/financial move for the Mavs ownership rather than a basketball move for the Mavs basketball team, and there's not a lot to deny that charge.

i think that this is actually quite possible.

So, basically, this is a variant of the John Fisher “let’s poo in the nest” plan. Perhaps we should encourage everyone to adopt the gerund form to describe such loathsome conduct: “Fisherizing”.

RE: Doncic to Lakers - Hieronymus - 02-06-2025

The move to Vegas or bizarre leverage for legalizing sports gambling seem like the most reasonable theories, because the basketball reasons make no sense. That said, it doesn’t look like a bad enough trade in those cases. It’s dumb, but it’s not ridiculously dumb enough. So basically I just don’t get it.

RE: Doncic to Lakers - fullmetal - 02-06-2025

If you have a crystal ball and can predict with 100% certainty that a 25-yr old league phenom will not be able to get a handle on his conditioning or will not be able to stay healthy ever again...okay sure.

But then, why negotiate in secret? Why not shop him around and see what the market will give you for one of the top players? Utah, the third wheel in the trade, didn't even know Luka was a piece until what, 30-60 min before the trade went through? He led the league in PPG last (regular) season! The failure to establish fair market value for Luka speaks to either incompetence or shenanigans.

And as far as durability is concerned, Anthony Davis is no iron man.

And,

Quote:To complain about Luka’s conditioning and then trade him for a chronically injured big man who’s six years older and not as good right now is driving me to become a conspiracy theorist. None of this passes the smell test.

https://www.theringer.com/2025/02/02/nba/luka-doncic-trade-anthony-davis-dallas-mavericks-los-angeles-lakers

What the trade does purport to do is boost the Dallas defense. Sure, Luka has been known to play the role of a revolving door. But the Mavs made it to the Finals last season, and they somewhat held their own against the Celtics (Luka playing hurt notwithstanding). Doesn't scream Achilles heel to me.

Some moderate analysis about the Mavs' chance of a championship: https://www.si.com/nba/five-questions-luka-doncic-anthony-davis-lakers-mavericks-trade

Defense wins championships, but you know, you gotta score some points to win.

Anyway, trading the young face of the franchise and a future cornerstone (a la Dirk) for an All-Star whose seasons are numbered...bold move. Dallas fans loved Dirk, and it really felt like Luka was his spiritual successor. Let's hope Nico Harrison didn't mix up the Luka package with the Kevin Durant package again. (Or was he ordered to make the trade...)

RE: Doncic to Lakers - Mick - 02-06-2025

I didn't realize Doncic was hurt so much and so often.

Luka Doncic's timeline of conditioning trouble with Mavericks, from beer snatch video to weight concerns | Sporting News

RE: Doncic to Lakers - newguy - 02-06-2025

(02-06-2025, 02:23 PM)fullmetal Wrote: And as far as durability is concerned, Anthony Davis is no iron man.

his nickname (given to him by Charles Barkley) is street clothes.

RE: Doncic to Lakers - fullmetal - 02-06-2025

Yeah, there was a rumor that Luka showed up to training camp at 270 lbs. But...the rumor mill is wild by nature. He is young, after all.

ESPN has a great story on how the trade came together
https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/43676830/how-stunning-luka-doncic-anthony-davis-trade-came-together-los-angeles-lakers-dallas-mavericks

Two more things:
1. Luka will not be eligible for a $345 million super max contract after the '26-'26 season. Also, he now has to pay California state income taxes (none in Texas).
https://www.cnbc.com/2025/02/06/luka-doncic-misses-out-on-supermax-contract-but-could-make-even-more.html

2. The Adelsons will now dodge the luxury tax (salary cap), which I think comes out of the pockets of the owners. Anthony Davis waived his $6 million trade bonus to make that happen.
https://www.sportingnews.com/us/nba/news/what-nba-luxury-tax-explained-penalties-high-spending-teams/p1sspaedfsmsit20rqewn9d7
https://www.si.com/nba/anthony-davis-details-motive-behind-selfless-decision-major-trade-bonus
https://www.spotrac.com/nba/dallas-mavericks/tax

RE: Doncic to Lakers - TrumpCard - 02-07-2025

(02-06-2025, 10:11 PM)fullmetal Wrote: Yeah, there was a rumor that Luka showed up to training camp at 270 lbs. But...the rumor mill is wild by nature. He is young, after all.

ESPN has a great story on how the trade came together
https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/43676830/how-stunning-luka-doncic-anthony-davis-trade-came-together-los-angeles-lakers-dallas-mavericks

Two more things:
1. Luka will not be eligible for a $345 million super max contract after the '26-'26 season. Also, he now has to pay California state income taxes (none in Texas).
https://www.cnbc.com/2025/02/06/luka-doncic-misses-out-on-supermax-contract-but-could-make-even-more.html

2. The Adelsons will now dodge the luxury tax (salary cap), which I think comes out of the pockets of the owners. Anthony Davis waived his $6 million trade bonus to make that happen.
https://www.sportingnews.com/us/nba/news/what-nba-luxury-tax-explained-penalties-high-spending-teams/p1sspaedfsmsit20rqewn9d7
https://www.si.com/nba/anthony-davis-details-motive-behind-selfless-decision-major-trade-bonus
https://www.spotrac.com/nba/dallas-mavericks/tax

Davis was unhappy playing all his minutes at Center for the Lakers. If he thought that staying on the Lakers was causing excessive wear and tear on his injury prone body, then $6 million is a small price to pay to go to a team where he can play more minutes at Power Forward. The Mavericks have Lively, Gafford and Powell at Center, so Davis probably will be able to play further from the basket now. Plus, as you say, Davis will pay less income tax now. I can understand the reasons he welcomed the trade. Those same factors don't necessarily make the trade good for the Mavericks though.

As a Laker fan, I obviously hope that Luka will learn conditioning/health habits from LeBron. There aren't many players in the league who show the same discipline as LeBron does in taking care of his body. That's part of the reason that LeBron has been able to play more total minutes and games than anyone in NBA history (counting regular season and playoffs).

RE: Doncic to Lakers - Mick - 02-08-2025

Butler's first game was tonight in Chicago. The Warriors were down by 24 at one point, they won by 21. Butler had 25 points, 11 /13 free throws, 7/12 from the field and he's an underrated passer with four assists. Just one foul, just one turnover. He looks like a very young 35.

Curry had an amazing night, 34 points. The Warriors didn't get Vucevic at the trade deadline but their stretch big, second-round pick Quinten Post had 18 points in 20 minutes, 7/10 from the field, 3 rebs, 2 assists, just one turnover. He outperformed the Bulls' Vucevic who had just 10 points and got in foul trouble with four fouls in 29 minutes. Vucevic was -27, Post was +11.

11 previous all stars were traded by the trade deadline this year. Amazing.

RE: Doncic to Lakers - fullmetal - 02-09-2025

Thing is, it sounded like none of the players knew that they were about to be traded. Lebron said he was shocked, but...surely they would have run that by King James beforehand, right? I feel like if the Lakers front office does something to upset Lebron, it's all over. I thought there was a chance the trade could have been vetoed, but it's a done deal now.

The NBA2k5 video game rejects this trade outright as too unbalanced:
https://clutchpoints.com/nba-2k25-vetoes-luka-doncic-anthony-davis-trade

Good point about Luka picking up good habits from Lebron. Everyone knows that Luka doesn't have the greatest self-care or healthy habits. At 25 yrs old, if he doesn't take care of himself now, his body won't sustain the career it might be capable of. Maybe decades from now, we'll see this as the catalyst for Luka 2.0.

The only constant in life is change.

Butler looks like he'll provide a spark that could push GSW into the playoffs. He's always been a weapon if he's on his game.

RE: Doncic to Lakers - needle - 02-09-2025

I haven't ponied up to pay to read this article that describes an interview with the Mavs team "governor" (aka owner's son-in-law), but from what I've gleaned this trade was **most likely** about hubris and incompetence on the part of Dallas ownership.

https://www.dallasnews.com/sports/mavericks/2025/02/09/mavericks-governor-patrick-dumont-makes-first-public-comments-after-luka-doncic-trade/

Some audio of the interview for X users:

https://x.com/dmn_mavericks/status/1888613250889121987

RE: Doncic to Lakers - TrumpCard - 02-09-2025

I think AD had to know about the trade because he waived a large trade bonus, which would have been a financial fly in the ointment for Dallas had he not waived. I think Dallas would have wanted to know in advance that AD planned to do so.