WBB: Postseason tournament - Printable Version

WBB: Postseason tournament - Printable Version

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WBB: Postseason tournament - 81alum - 03-10-2025

I noticed in the brief presser posted on GoStanford that Paye was asked if she was open to going to a post season tournament (other than the NCAAs) and she said yes.

I wonder where we will wind up.

https://gostanford.com/documents/c289076d-7cf4-4548-afd4-acb7e6721dee.pdf

RE: WBB: Postseason tournament - petersalas - 03-10-2025

I think that’s a smart decision. Why not get some more games in. Final games for seniors, more game experience for younger players, hopefully some more wins, more head coach experience for Kate, and importantly some great momentum for next season if they can play well and win some games, or the entire tournament.

RE: WBB: Postseason tournament - 81alum - 03-10-2025

(03-10-2025, 08:08 PM)petersalas Wrote: I think that’s a smart decision. Why not get some more games in. Final games for seniors, more game experience for younger players, hopefully some more wins, more head coach experience for Kate, and importantly some great momentum for next season if they can play well and win some games, or the entire tournament.

My enthusiasm will depend in part on whether we get a home game or not. We are two completely different teams home and away. Another home game could be a feel-good moment, especially for the seniors.

Home: 14-3
Away and neutral: 2-11

At least this season will be a winning season, even if we lose in the first round of whatever, since we are 16-14. The meltdown could have been worse this year, and a few wins in a post season tournament would indeed provide some optimism going forward. A trip to the ends of the earth to lose in the first round to a team loaded with grad transfers, however, would do more harm than good.

RE: WBB: Postseason tournament - petersalas - 03-10-2025

I know what you mean. I remain optimistic that this season was just rough, but that it will be a much different one next season. I believe in the players and coaches. As long as they learn from the losses and come back with a different mindset, we’ll be spoiled again. Post season games will give the team a head start into next season. They just need to learn to win on the road and play with the same mentality as the home games. It’s obvious this team never got comfortable playing on the road. Whoever is working on the schedule next year should also learn from this seasons schedule and balance it out even more. I’d even start with a road game, even if the road games are local or in state. I know I’m getting ahead to next season and I don’t know if it’s because I’m ready to move on from this season or if it’s because I know we won’t see the season play out like this one did.

(03-10-2025, 08:24 PM)81alum Wrote:
(03-10-2025, 08:08 PM)petersalas Wrote: I think that’s a smart decision. Why not get some more games in. Final games for seniors, more game experience for younger players, hopefully some more wins, more head coach experience for Kate, and importantly some great momentum for next season if they can play well and win some games, or the entire tournament.
My enthusiasm will depend in part on whether we get a home game or not. We are two completely different teams home and away. Another home game could be a feel-good moment, especially for the seniors.

Home: 14-3
Away and neutral: 2-11

At least this season will be a winning season, even if we lose in the first round of whatever, since we are 16-14. The meltdown could have been worse this year, and a few wins in a post season tournament would indeed provide some optimism going forward. A trip to the ends of the earth to lose in the first round to a team loaded with grad transfers, however, would do more harm than good.

RE: WBB: Postseason tournament - OCcardinal - 03-12-2025

(03-10-2025, 08:24 PM)81alum Wrote:
(03-10-2025, 08:08 PM)petersalas Wrote: I think that’s a smart decision. Why not get some more games in. Final games for seniors, more game experience for younger players, hopefully some more wins, more head coach experience for Kate, and importantly some great momentum for next season if they can play well and win some games, or the entire tournament.
My enthusiasm will depend in part on whether we get a home game or not. We are two completely different teams home and away. Another home game could be a feel-good moment, especially for the seniors.

Home: 14-3
Away and neutral: 2-11

At least this season will be a winning season, even if we lose in the first round of whatever, since we are 16-14. The meltdown could have been worse this year, and a few wins in a post season tournament would indeed provide some optimism going forward. A trip to the ends of the earth to lose in the first round to a team loaded with grad transfers, however, would do more harm than good.

There was more behind those 11 road losses than the fact they were on the road:

First, we faced four top 15 teams on the road*:
Duke (#7)
Notre Dame (#8)
LSU (#10) Overtime Loss
Ohio St. (#15) - Neutral
*We faced 3 currently-ranked teams at home, losing to #9 NC State and #12 North Carolina and beating #23 Florida St. (which was indeed a great home win)

Second, we lost 3 travel games where there was either no Nunu or a limited Nunu
Louisville (NET 32) - no Nunu
Virginia (NET 72)- no Nunu
Clemson (NET 62, Neutral) - limited Nunu (Clemson took Louisville to overtime the next day)

3 of the 4 remaining road losses were against decent, if not ranked, teams.
Indiana (NET 34)
California (NET 38) - lost to Cal at home too
Clemson (NET 62) - OT loss

Then there is one game I'd rather forget...
SMU (NET 134)

The Clemson/SMU road trip is the only one I would point to as a particularly bad one, mostly because of the SMU loss, which was the clear low point of the season. But at least the SMU game was close (4 points). That was also just before SMU lost their second leading scorer, Chantae Embry, for the season. And that was the last game Tess Heal started, so perhaps Kate Paye learned something there.

RE: WBB: Postseason tournament - 81alum - 03-12-2025

(03-12-2025, 04:13 PM)OCcardinal Wrote: .And that was the last game Tess Heal started, so perhaps Kate Paye learned something there.

Tess Heal is a better three point shooter and a better layup finisher in traffic than any of our other guards, and a better free throw shooter as well. She shot an absolutely astounding 34/68 from beyond the arc. She would be leading the nation if she had more attempts. She also led the team in free throw percentage at 86%. She led the team in overall field goal percentage too. I also thought she was one of our best at going for 50/50 balls and was one of the few to play hard and show good body language in all those losses. She reminds me a lot of the Hulls, but in a smaller body.

But there are certain kinds of guards she can't guard, and there are certain kind of defenders who can control her long windup. So getting the right match-up for her is critical, and sometimes we couldn't. She is the opposite of Ijiwoye, who is almost all defense and not enough offense (yet, though we can hope she develops her offense.)

RE: WBB: Postseason tournament - 2006alum - 03-12-2025

(03-12-2025, 10:09 PM)81alum Wrote:
(03-12-2025, 04:13 PM)OCcardinal Wrote: .And that was the last game Tess Heal started, so perhaps Kate Paye learned something there.
Tess Heal is a better three point shooter and a better layup finisher in traffic than any of our other guards, and a better free throw shooter as well. She shot an absolutely astounding 34/68 from beyond the arc. She would be leading the nation if she had more attempts. She also led the team in free throw percentage at 86%. She led the team in overall field goal percentage too. I also thought she was one of our best at going for 50/50 balls and was one of the few to play hard and show good body language in all those losses. She reminds me a lot of the Hulls, but in a smaller body.

But there are certain kinds of guards she can't guard, and there are certain kind of defenders who can control her long windup. So getting the right match-up for her is critical, and sometimes we couldn't. She is the opposite of Ijiwoye, who is almost all defense and not enough offense (yet, though we can hope she develops her offense.)

Thanks. I've been absolutely slammed with work since Jan. 20 but I've been wanting to write something to this effect. Heal has the best effective field goal % on our team, and the third best in the past 5 seasons (interestingly, Anna Wilson's natty season was the best, followed by Jump's (non-super) senior season). Had she not missed two free throws late in the Georgia Tech game, she was on pace for a 50/50/90 season, which I'm also certain no Stanford player has hit since the early 90s. 81 is absolutely right that she can only be effectively deployed as a two-way player against certain matchups, but she's easily our best and most reliably efficient offensive weapon.

RE: WBB: Postseason tournament - fullmetal - 03-13-2025

Thanks for that excellent breakdown OCcardinal. There's always a story behind the numbers :)

The team has to play in the postseason if offered a berth. Stanford can't risk becoming a no-fun program in the NIL era. Coach Paye has to recruit the team each year as well as make the team an appealing destination for future transfers.

RE: WBB: Postseason tournament - Hieronymus - 03-13-2025

(03-12-2025, 10:30 PM)2006alum Wrote:
(03-12-2025, 10:09 PM)81alum Wrote:
(03-12-2025, 04:13 PM)OCcardinal Wrote: .And that was the last game Tess Heal started, so perhaps Kate Paye learned something there.
Tess Heal is a better three point shooter and a better layup finisher in traffic than any of our other guards, and a better free throw shooter as well. She shot an absolutely astounding 34/68 from beyond the arc. She would be leading the nation if she had more attempts. She also led the team in free throw percentage at 86%. She led the team in overall field goal percentage too. I also thought she was one of our best at going for 50/50 balls and was one of the few to play hard and show good body language in all those losses. She reminds me a lot of the Hulls, but in a smaller body.

But there are certain kinds of guards she can't guard, and there are certain kind of defenders who can control her long windup. So getting the right match-up for her is critical, and sometimes we couldn't. She is the opposite of Ijiwoye, who is almost all defense and not enough offense (yet, though we can hope she develops her offense.)

Thanks. I've been absolutely slammed with work since Jan. 20 but I've been wanting to write something to this effect. Heal has the best effective field goal % on our team, and the third best in the past 5 seasons (interestingly, Anna Wilson's natty season was the best, followed by Jump's (non-super) senior season). Had she not missed two free throws late in the Georgia Tech game, she was on pace for a 50/50/90 season, which I'm also certain no Stanford player has hit since the early 90s. 81 is absolutely right that she can only be effectively deployed as a two-way player against certain matchups, but she's easily our best and most reliably efficient offensive weapon.

It didn’t help that several key players had similar match up limitations. It would have been easier to deploy Heal effectively in those games if the team had more complimentary players. But at core I agree, Heal did a lot of good stuff this year, and she did adapt some as the season went along.

RE: WBB: Postseason tournament - jacket3ree - 03-13-2025

(03-13-2025, 02:41 AM)fullmetal Wrote: Thanks for that excellent breakdown OCcardinal. There's always a story behind the numbers :)

The team has to play in the postseason if offered a berth. Stanford can't risk becoming a no-fun program in the NIL era. Coach Paye has to recruit the team each year as well as make the team an appealing destination for future transfers.

Never thought I'd see those words on the internet, even a nascent form of it in 1987. First, the streak is amazing and should be acknowledged. At 36 consecutive appearances, Stanford was second only to Tennessee (42), and now will be tied with UCONN. Maybe UCONN will miss it next year. Right. What does anyone think UCONN would do faced with the WNIT or an off brand pay to play decision? Probably decline for not being up to their normal standard. The next longest streak is 20 years (Baylor). After that 13 years (Louisville and Maryland). Even magical South Carolina is "only" at 12 years. Anyone see Staley hanging around another 24 years?

I'm OK either way. I don't think they'd get anything out of it, now or for the future, other than a few more games to which few (especially recruits) will pay attention other than WTF is Stanford not in the tournament? Maybe Paye gets a few extra contractual dollars for postseason play?

RE: WBB: Postseason tournament - Jskass - 03-14-2025

This is so unusual I would not be surprised if out to a team vote and they decline.

RE: WBB: Postseason tournament - 82lsju - 03-14-2025

I for one was not aware of how teams are selected for the WNIT

out of the 48 teams

- up to 31 (31 if none in this pool decline)

Quote:[b]Automatic Berths[/b] - one berth from each of the nation's 31 conferences
A team that is offered an automatic berth by the WNIT shall be the team that is:
a.) the highest-finishing team in the conference's regular-season standings – and
b.) is not selected for the NCAA Tournament or the WBIT.
Should a conference's automatic qualifier team decline the WNIT invitation, the spot will then be awarded to either the next highest-finishing team in the designated conference or reallocated to the At-Large berth consideration per the WNIT committee's discretion.

the remaining 17 (or more if some of the 31 automatic qualifiers decline)

Quote:[b]At-large Berths[/b]
The remaining team slots will be filled by the top teams available at the discretion of the WNIT committee. Any team from Division I will be considered. Teams that are considered for at-large berths MUST have:
a.) an overall record of .500 or better.
1. Teams who are under .500 are eligible to submit a waiver to be considered for an At-large spot and the following criteria points will be taken into high consideration.
Minimum 13 wins, excluding non-DI or exhibition games.

1-120 NET ranking

b.) When evaluating teams for at-large berths, the WNIT committee utilizes at least six statistical ranking systems, such as NCAA NET, RealTime RPI, Massey, Massey BCS, Her Hoop Stats, LRMC, Bennett, and Moore. The committee also looks at the strength of schedule, common opponents, games against other potential invitees, record at home and away, how well a team is currently playing, and key injuries, among other factors. The selection committee strives to choose the next best teams for the at-large spots, based solely on team meriterit.

and I found this site with projections for the field, no idea how good the site it. It does not show us in either their projected field or the next X teams out. From the ACC it shows BC, Clemson, and Miami

https://omnirankings.com/wcb/Macro/WNIT%20Selection.htm

RE: WBB: Postseason tournament - BobK - 03-14-2025

In any case the team is practicing

RE: WBB: Postseason tournament - liveoak - 03-14-2025

(03-13-2025, 07:38 PM)jacket3ree Wrote:
(03-13-2025, 02:41 AM)fullmetal Wrote: Thanks for that excellent breakdown OCcardinal. There's always a story behind the numbers :)

The team has to play in the postseason if offered a berth. Stanford can't risk becoming a no-fun program in the NIL era. Coach Paye has to recruit the team each year as well as make the team an appealing destination for future transfers.

Never thought I'd see those words on the internet, even a nascent form of it in 1987. First, the streak is amazing and should be acknowledged. At 36 consecutive appearances, Stanford was second only to Tennessee (42), and now will be tied with UCONN. Maybe UCONN will miss it next year. Right. What does anyone think UCONN would do faced with the WNIT or an off brand pay to play decision? Probably decline for not being up to their normal standard. The next longest streak is 20 years (Baylor). After that 13 years (Louisville and Maryland). Even magical South Carolina is "only" at 12 years. Anyone see Staley hanging around another 24 years?

I'm OK either way. I don't think they'd get anything out of it, now or for the future, other than a few more games to which few (especially recruits) will pay attention other than WTF is Stanford not in the tournament? Maybe Paye gets a few extra contractual dollars for postseason play?

I would respectfully disagree with this...I don't think that Stanford missing the NCAA Tournament is a reason to not play in another postseason tournament.
I think that if the team and coaches want to play postseason - that is solely their call (along with the Athletic Dept., of course). I think there are real benefits to it - primarily for the underclass players so they can gain playing time together

RE: WBB: Postseason tournament - BobK - 03-14-2025

So agree live oak. Recruiting is important. Recruits can’t look and think hmm something wrong here

RE: WBB: Postseason tournament - liveoak - 03-14-2025

(03-14-2025, 01:05 PM)BobK Wrote: So agree live oak. Recruiting is important. Recruits can’t look and think hmm something wrong here

I also think that refusing to play in a postseason tournament if it's not the NCAA says that those tournaments are beneath us. This IMO is not a good look.

RE: WBB: Postseason tournament - CompSci87 - 03-14-2025

(03-14-2025, 12:22 PM)82lsju Wrote: I for one was not aware of how teams are selected for the WNIT

out of the 48 teams

- up to 31 (31 if none in this pool decline)

Quote:[b]Automatic Berths[/b] - one berth from each of the nation's 31 conferences
A team that is offered an automatic berth by the WNIT shall be the team that is:
    a.) the highest-finishing team in the conference's regular-season standings – and
    b.) is not selected for the NCAA Tournament or the WBIT.
Should a conference's automatic qualifier team decline the WNIT invitation, the spot will then be awarded to either the next highest-finishing team in the designated conference or reallocated to the At-Large berth consideration per the WNIT committee's discretion.

the remaining 17 (or more if some of the 31 automatic qualifiers decline)

Quote:[b]At-large Berths[/b]
The remaining team slots will be filled by the top teams available at the discretion of the WNIT committee. Any team from Division I will be considered. Teams that are considered for at-large berths MUST have:
    a.) an overall record of .500 or better.
        1. Teams who are under .500 are eligible to submit a waiver to be considered for an At-large spot and the following criteria points will be taken into high consideration.
Minimum 13 wins, excluding non-DI or exhibition games.

1-120 NET ranking

b.) When evaluating teams for at-large berths, the WNIT committee utilizes at least six statistical ranking systems, such as NCAA NET, RealTime RPI, Massey, Massey BCS, Her Hoop Stats, LRMC, Bennett, and Moore. The committee also looks at the strength of schedule, common opponents, games against other potential invitees, record at home and away, how well a team is currently playing, and key injuries, among other factors. The selection committee strives to choose the next best teams for the at-large spots, based solely on team meriterit.

and I found this site with projections for the field, no idea how good the site it. It does not show us in either their projected field or the next X teams out. From the ACC it shows BC, Clemson, and Miami

https://omnirankings.com/wcb/Macro/WNIT%20Selection.htm

Perhaps it's projecting us for the WBIT, which is a higher tier than the WNIT now...?

RE: WBB: Postseason tournament - M T - 03-15-2025

(03-14-2025, 09:15 PM)CompSci87 Wrote:
(03-14-2025, 12:22 PM)82lsju Wrote: ...I found this site with projections for the field, no idea how good the site it. It does not show us in either their projected field or the next X teams out. From the ACC it shows BC, Clemson, and Miami

https://omnirankings.com/wcb/Macro/WNIT%20Selection.htm

Perhaps it's projecting us for the WBIT, which is a higher tier than the WNIT now...?

FWLIW, that site is projecting Stanford as the NCAA at-large bid #7 from the ACC.

RE: WBB: Postseason tournament - petersalas - 03-15-2025

I’m not sure how all those sites work. I’m going to watch the selection show cause my husband is a Tennessee women’s basketball fan, so he has something to look forward to. I’ve not given up, but as they say hope for the best, prepare for the worst. Next season, my anxiety will be #1 overall seed in the entire tournament or not?

RE: WBB: Postseason tournament - petersalas - 03-16-2025

WBIT
Looks like it’s Vs. Portland at Stanford Thursday

https://x.com/wbitwbb/status/1901444507637260733?s=46&t=4RIjvxZZM4wjQaSyTEUwgA