Question for Baylor and Stanford fans

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Question for Baylor and Stanford fans - Gauss - 12-08-2011

Lately there's been an influx of Baylor fans, and I think we got a pretty good debate about the two Voldemort frontrunners (well, lately it looks like the frontrunner and LuckÂ :( ).

I am a Stanford student who obviously supports Stanford, and would be delighted if Luck won (especially after what happened in 2009, ugh), but I think this year, RG3 deserves it. I found several labmates agreeing with me, so I was wondering what the proportion would be in this forum.

I think there are good cases for both:
For RG3
- RG3 has passed much better this year: RG3 stats are incredible, but I think they overstate the case. However, even after discounting the yards he got because his very good receivers got great separation, or made a play after the catch, his passing looked to me superior to Lucks (I've watched every snap Luck has taken, and about 5 Baylor games). He was really accurate.
- RG3 ran the option magnificently: some of this runs and decisions were superb, and you can't sniff at 644 yards. Luck, probably because he was being protected, just didn't run as much as other seasons.
For Luck
- Luck seemed to control the game and read defenses more effectively than RG3: RG3 was more flashy, but Luck seemed to take the right decision more often. I especially felt it in third downs, and sure enough, when I checked the stats, Stanford has a 52% conversion, versus 45% Baylor (both are obviously very good).
- Luck is better in the red zone: this is a subset of the previous point, making better decisions. But decisions in the red zone are even more important.
It seemed to me that even Baylor's coach didn't fully trust RG3 in the red zone. In their first drive against Oklahoma St, they had a clear running situation with first and goal, and sure enough, they tried rushing 4 times in a row. OkSt's defense stopped them. I was thinking all along that the rushing was so obvious that they should have passed at least once. Of course, a couple of drives later, again on first and goal RG3 tries to pass, and got intercepted in the end zone (he got another ugly end zone interception against Texas).
It seems to me that Stanford's success in the Red zone (1st with 98% Vs 95th with 76%) is directly attributable to Luck's making the right decisions.

So overall, I don't believe it's such a slam dunk as some of the Voldemort voters seem to think, but I think RG3's better passing and rushing somewhat outweighs Luck's better decisions.

Re: Question for Baylor and Stanford fans - jayasena - 12-08-2011

(12-08-2011, 04:16 PM)Gauss link Wrote:I think RG3's better passing and rushing somewhat outweighs Luck's better decisions.

I agree... if I ever had to decide between losing my arms or my brain -- it's a no-brainer to give up the brain.Â ::)

Re: Question for Baylor and Stanford fans - fullmetal - 12-09-2011

RG3 mentioned this in his O'Brien award acceptance speech--with 11 min to go in the game against Kansas, Baylor was down 21 pts?Â They couldn't jump all over Kansas in the first half?Â Kansas the doormat?Â Holy smokes.Â What was RG3 doing in the first half of that game?

Re: Question for Baylor and Stanford fans - NYC Poke - 12-09-2011

Notice how in RG3's highlights, they never show the OSU game.Â He threw 2 picks and they were down 49-3 in the 3rd quarter. All of his positive stats from this game came in the 4th quarter against our 2nd and 3rd team defenses (and I believe they called TO with with a few seconds remaining to get their final TD and make it 59-24).

Having said that, I wouldn't have a problem with either Luck or RG3 winning the Voldemort.Â They are both deserving, and I'm glad I don't carry the burden of having to make that decision.

Re: Question for Baylor and Stanford fans - D. C. Bear - 12-09-2011

(12-09-2011, 01:13 AM)fullmetal link Wrote:RG3 mentioned this in his O'Brien award acceptance speech--with 11 min to go in the game against Kansas, Baylor was down 21 pts?Â They couldn't jump all over Kansas in the first half?Â Kansas the doormat?Â Holy smokes.Â What was RG3 doing in the first half of that game?

Since you asked...Â ;)

What was he doing? Mostly watching Kansas run the ball. Kansas was pretty horrible this year, but they had a decent game plan and played their hearts out on their Senior Day. Very frustrating to watch. A lot of ignorant Baylor fans were calling for Briles' head at halftime. KU held the ball for 43:28 seconds in that game and rolled up nearly 300 yards rushing against Baylor's rather porous defense. Even in the 4th quarter, where they scored three touchdowns, Baylor only had the ball for 4:00 minutes. Bottom line, Kansas couldn't finish the job, and, of all the wins, this one was on Griffin. Down 24-3 with 12:53 left, he ran for one touchdown (49 yards), and, as the defense managed to force another punt and an interception, he passed for two more (into a very strong wind) to tie the game. Threw for another in OT and then the defense stopped Kansas' two-point conversion try. Ball game. I don't know if they came out flat, if Kansas just executed well or if they just got lucky for a three quarters.

NYC Poke doesn't know what he's talking about. At 107th in the country, there's nothing special about OSU's defense. Stanford has a great offense, and your defense is head and shoulders better than Baylor's. Just do your thing against OSU, don't turn the ball over, and you will beat them. Baylor didn't have any trouble moving the ball against OSU, but failed to capitalize on that offense and turned the ball over an inordinate number of times. You don't roll up 622 yards of offense in the 4th quarter against 2nd and 3rd string players--that's just not possible. Also, Baylor had 286 yards in the first half of that game. Projected over two halves, that was right at their season average of 571.2 yards per game. I'm sure it would be fairly easy to find some highlights in the 622 yards of offense and 36 first downs that Baylor piled up in that game, but there are sufficient highlights elsewhere if you're just looking for a highlight.

somnambule, if you're implying that Griffin isn't as smart as Luck, that may or may not be true. However, Griffin's undergraduate GPA (political science, not basket weaving) is somewhat higher than Luck's (though both are quite impressive), and he's about to finish a master's degree. If he comes back, he'd go to law school part-time, although I can't imagine why he'd do that instead of turning pro given that he'll already have two degrees. Maybe he could go part-time to Stanford Law and play for you guys for one season. I'm sure he'd have no trouble getting in, (and might even win a Voldemort).

Re: Question for Baylor and Stanford fans - oman - 12-09-2011

I want III to get it so that Luck just goes into the Fiesta pissed off, and ready to take off running and hurt some defensive backs.Â

Re: Question for Baylor and Stanford fans - yvonne - 12-09-2011

(12-09-2011, 03:27 PM)D. C. Bear link Wrote:somnambule, if you're implying that Griffin isn't as smart as Luck, that may or may not be true. However, Griffin's undergraduate GPA (political science, not basket weaving) is somewhat higher than Luck's (though both are quite impressive),

I couldn't think of a better example of stats and numbers not telling the whole picture. Thanks for posting it.

Re: Question for Baylor and Stanford fans - D. C. Bear - 12-09-2011

(12-09-2011, 03:31 PM)Yvonne link Wrote:[quote author=D. C. Bear link=topic=5143.msg37191#msg37191 date=1323469633]

somnambule, if you're implying that Griffin isn't as smart as Luck, that may or may not be true. However, Griffin's undergraduate GPA (political science, not basket weaving) is somewhat higher than Luck's (though both are quite impressive),

I couldn't think of a better example of stats and numbers not telling the whole picture. Thanks for posting it.
[/quote]

You're right that numbers don't tell the whole story, but they do tell a lot of the story. With Griffin, you don't have to choose between smart, accurate and fast. He's the whole package.

Re: Question for Baylor and Stanford fans - NYC Poke - 12-09-2011

(12-09-2011, 03:27 PM)D. C. Bear link Wrote:NYC Poke doesn't know what he's talking about. At 107th in the country, there's nothing special about OSU's defense.

Okay, so RG3 threw 2 picks and was running an offense that trailed 49-3 at the end of the 3rd quarter against a terrible defense.Â I take it you're campaigning for Luck?

And pleasepleasePLEASE convince the Stanford coaching staff how "terrible" our defense is using ranking based solely on yards per game.Â Please neglect to mention that our defense faced more plays per game than any other team.

Re: Question for Baylor and Stanford fans - Roberton3 - 12-09-2011

(12-09-2011, 04:30 PM)NYC Poke link Wrote:[quote author=D. C. Bear link=topic=5143.msg37191#msg37191 date=1323469633]NYC Poke doesn't know what he's talking about. At 107th in the country, there's nothing special about OSU's defense.

Re: Question for Baylor and Stanford fans - NYC Poke - 12-09-2011

(12-09-2011, 04:40 PM)Roberton3 link Wrote:[quote author=NYC Poke link=topic=5143.msg37204#msg37204 date=1323473410]
[quote author=D. C. Bear link=topic=5143.msg37191#msg37191 date=1323469633]NYC Poke doesn't know what he's talking about. At 107th in the country, there's nothing special about OSU's defense.

Okay, so RG3 threw 2 picks and was running an offense that trailed 49-3 at the end of the 3rd quarter against a terrible defense.Â [/quote]

I'm really starting to like our new friends from Oklahoma...
[/quote]

Wish we could've liked each other more in the PAC.Â :(Â I understand why y'all wouldn't necessarily want us, though.

Re: Question for Baylor and Stanford fans - yvonne - 12-09-2011

I was impressed by the very first OSU post.

We should campaign for Larry Scott to rescue you from the Summer's Eve conference.

Re: Question for Baylor and Stanford fans - jacketree - 12-09-2011

The poll is missing one option:

Both deserve it, but there is only one trophy.

Yvonne, what is the 'whole story the GPAs don't tell'?Â Are you implying that Stanford's notorious grade inflation somehow diminishes Luck's achievement?Â Architecture is tough and engineering is tough, so I presume his hybrid program is tough. I know nothing about Baylor or political science really, but I can't believe what RGIII did academically while playing big-time football was particularly easy. So I'm pretty confused by your response.

Also, I thought Stanford went after RGIII pretty hard and offered him a scholarship?Â I don't see any need for the Stanford fan base to put him down or call other fans douches just because it appears their guy won't win one particular trophy.

Re: Question for Baylor and Stanford fans - yvonne - 12-09-2011

Stanford:Baylor::#5:#75

I think it takes a special kind of person to come to another team's board with the expressed purpose of putting the other team's player and fans down. It also takes someone special to post 7 such tomes per day and to achieve a reputation ranking of -34 (and counting). One or two posts would have been within the norm.

Re: Question for Baylor and Stanford fans - fullmetal - 12-09-2011

Let me put it this way.Â The Kansas defense almost managed a shutout of RG3, your favorite Voldemort contender.

The.Â Kansas.Â Defense.

Re: Question for Baylor and Stanford fans - D. C. Bear - 12-09-2011

(12-09-2011, 07:17 PM)fullmetal link Wrote:Let me put it this way.Â The Kansas defense almost managed a shutout of RG3, your favorite Voldemort contender.

The.Â Kansas.Â Defense.

Football. isn't. horseshoes. :)

Re: Question for Baylor and Stanford fans - NYC Poke - 12-09-2011

(12-09-2011, 07:17 PM)fullmetal link Wrote:Let me put it this way.Â The Kansas defense almost managed a shutout of RG3, your favorite Voldemort contender.

The.Â Kansas.Â Defense.

Re: Question for Baylor and Stanford fans - NYC Poke - 12-09-2011

(12-09-2011, 07:57 PM)D. C. Bear link Wrote:Football. isn't. horseshoes. :)

Meh.Â You can sometimes get a ringer.Â Look at Auburn last year.

Re: Question for Baylor and Stanford fans - D. C. Bear - 12-09-2011

(12-09-2011, 07:57 PM)NYC Poke link Wrote:[quote author=fullmetal link=topic=5143.msg37220#msg37220 date=1323483438]
Let me put it this way.Â The Kansas defense almost managed a shutout of RG3, your favorite Voldemort contender.

The.Â Kansas.Â Defense.

Good point.Â That was the Kansas defense that we pulled Weeden on before the end of the first half.Â I think we'd scored 56 by that point.Â Weeden didn't get a chance to rally in the 4th quarter.Â And the KU defense only ranks 7 below us!Â

D.C. Bear has a point in that KU played ball control against their truly pathetic defense and kept RG3 off of the field.Â Texas did the same to us and it kept the game close.Â I'm really worried about Stanford doing that with us.Â It doesn't take a rocket surgeon to figure this out.
[/quote]

It's a little unfair to compare across games since football is not transitive. Each game is its own entity. After all, ISU was the team that Baylor beat by 23 points with a subpar (for him) quarterback performance. RGIII only passed for 212 yards in that game, although he did run for 107.

In the end, of course, it didn't matter against Kansas that RGIII didn't have the ball much. With about 12 minutes left in the game, KU's defense finally broke when RGIII went 49 yards for a TD and it looked after that like Baylor would score every time. They did. It took three drives totaling four minutes of clock time to put three TDs on the Jayhawks, and the drives weren't short yardage either. They were 80, 89, and 98 yards.

Re: Question for Baylor and Stanford fans - jayasena - 12-09-2011

(12-09-2011, 03:27 PM)D. C. Bear link Wrote:somnambule, if you're implying that Griffin isn't as smart as Luck, that may or may not be true.

No, I was not implying that. I was commenting on Gauss' claim that running and throwing outweighs better decision making.