Outside Topic MLB HOF - Printable Version

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MLB HOF - 82lsju - 05-13-2025

will Shoeless Joe Jackson or Pete Rose or any of the other 14 deceased, banned players now get into the MLB hall of fame

https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/45115659/pete-rose-shoeless-joe-jackson-players-reinstated-mlb

Quote:Manfred ruled that MLB's punishment of banned individuals ends upon their deaths.
...
Manfred's ruling removes a total of 16 deceased players and one deceased owner from MLB's banned list

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RE: MLB HOF - Mick - 05-13-2025

(05-13-2025, 02:18 PM)82lsju Wrote:  will Shoeless Joe Jackson or Pete Rose or any of the other 14 deceased, banned players now get into the MLB hall of fame

https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/45115659/pete-rose-shoeless-joe-jackson-players-reinstated-mlb

Quote:Manfred ruled that MLB's punishment of banned individuals ends upon their deaths.
...
Manfred's ruling removes a total of 16 deceased players and one deceased owner from MLB's banned list

Shoeless Joe Jackson was illiterate. He never went to school and started working in cotton mills at the age of six. He hit .375/.394/.563/.956 during the World Series in question, didn't make an error and hit the only home run in the series. All of those numbers were superior to his WS numbers just two years prior and all of those numbers were superior to his regular season statistics.

He'll be eligible for the Hall of Fame in 2028.

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RE: MLB HOF - Giants - 05-13-2025

82lsju dateline='[url=tel:1747171135' Wrote:  1747171135[/url]']
will Shoeless Joe Jackson or Pete Rose or any of the other 14 deceased, banned players now get into the MLB hall of fame

https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/45115659/pete-rose-shoeless-joe-jackson-players-reinstated-mlb

Quote:Manfred ruled that MLB's punishment of banned individuals ends upon their deaths.
...
Manfred's ruling removes a total of 16 deceased players and one deceased owner from MLB's banned list

It will take 12 votes from the Classic Era Committee of 16 in 2027 (induction in 2028).  IMO, whether Jackson, Rose or any of the others is selected will depend in large part on the composition of the committee.  Will they be hardliners or people willing to take a second look at each case?  

We will have to wait and see……..

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RE: MLB HOF - Treebound - 05-13-2025

Thanks for this post.  Growing up an A's fan I was not a fan of Rose or the Big Red Machine, but oh were they good!    You had to tip your cap to that crew with Rose, Bench, Morgan, Perez, Foster, Concepcion, etc...  

When MLB let Ohtani get away with betting big on baseball because of all the money flowing in from Japan/Asia, I felt like it was incredibly unfair to Rose and others.  Is this why Manfred changed his mind or was there some other event that brought about this change of heart.

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RE: MLB HOF - PVTree - 05-14-2025

(05-13-2025, 09:34 PM)Treebound Wrote:  Thanks for this post.  Growing up an A's fan I was not a fan of Rose or the Big Red Machine, but oh were they good!    You had to tip your cap to that crew with Rose, Bench, Morgan, Perez, Foster, Concepcion, etc...  

When MLB let Ohtani get away with betting big on baseball because of all the money flowing in from Japan/Asia, I felt like it was incredibly unfair to Rose and others.  Is this why Manfred changed his mind or was there some other event that brought about this change of heart.

Really? I didn't know that. I thought it was his personal manager / translator who stole from Ohtani due to a gambling problem he (the translator) had.

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RE: MLB HOF - gailtate - 05-14-2025

We need a Hall of Infamy. We can start with jerks like Manfred and Rose. And Fisher.

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RE: MLB HOF - Goose - 05-14-2025

I can see the argument that a player who is "banned for life" is no longer banned after he is dead. I do however hope Rose is never inducted. While clearly part of MLB and subject to its rules, Rose unquestionably repeatedly violated those rules and then lied about it. IMO that should result in a ban not just for life, but forever. The fact that Rose continued to violate the laws of the land subsequently is an additional reason to deny him admission.

A few of the other players that are acknowledged as no longer banned may be different cases. Their alleged involvement in rule-breaking was a one time event, the players claimed innocence and the "proof" is in some cases very questionable. It is possible IMO that some of these players could be voted into the HOF. I would be "OK" with that provided a rationale was also provided.

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RE: MLB HOF - Giants - 05-14-2025

(05-14-2025, 04:30 AM)PVTree Wrote:  

(05-13-2025, 09:34 PM)Treebound Wrote:  Thanks for this post.  Growing up an A's fan I was not a fan of Rose or the Big Red Machine, but oh were they good!    You had to tip your cap to that crew with Rose, Bench, Morgan, Perez, Foster, Concepcion, etc...  

When MLB let Ohtani get away with betting big on baseball because of all the money flowing in from Japan/Asia, I felt like it was incredibly unfair to Rose and others.  Is this why Manfred changed his mind or was there some other event that brought about this change of heart.

Really? I didn't know that. I thought it was his personal manager / translator who stole from Ohtani due to a gambling problem he (the translator) had.

Yep.  Ohtani’s personal assistant was the guilty party (he will begin serving a 57 month sentence soon).

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RE: MLB HOF - Treebound - 05-14-2025

While Ohtani's personal translator/manager/best friend was convicted and is taking the fall, I find it very hard to believe Ohtani knew nothing here.  If they are/were very good/best friends then he likely had some knowledge of the betting.  MLB is all about the money, so they were happy to see this new international star come through it all "clean" and the money keep flowing in from Asia.  I don't buy it.    

I agree that Rose is not a model citizen and the committee will need to decide if he ultimately gets into the Hall.

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RE: MLB HOF - terry - 05-14-2025

A question for all of you -- If you had a vote, which of the following players would you vote to include in the Hall of Fame?

Gary Sheffield

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RE: MLB HOF - BobK - 05-14-2025

Bonds
Clemons
McGuire
Sosa

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RE: MLB HOF - Spiny_Norman - 05-14-2025

(05-14-2025, 12:49 PM)terry Wrote:  A question for all of you -- If you had a vote, which of the following players would you vote to include in the Hall of Fame?

Pete Rose

Shoeless Joe Jackson

Barry Bonds

Roger Clemens

Alex Rodriguez

Sammy Sosa

Mark McGwire

Rafael Palmeiro

Gary Sheffield

Shoeless Joe Jackson. And that's it.

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RE: MLB HOF - 82lsju - 05-14-2025

(05-14-2025, 12:49 PM)terry Wrote:  A question for all of you -- If you had a vote, which of the following players would you vote to include in the Hall of Fame?

Pete Rose

Shoeless Joe Jackson

Barry Bonds

Roger Clemens

Alex Rodriguez

Sammy Sosa

Mark McGwire

Rafael Palmeiro

Gary Sheffield

only Jackson, and I grew up in Cincinnati watching the Big Red Machine

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RE: MLB HOF - PVTree - 05-14-2025

(05-14-2025, 12:49 PM)terry Wrote:  A question for all of you -- If you had a vote, which of the following players would you vote to include in the Hall of Fame?

Pete Rose

Shoeless Joe Jackson

Barry Bonds

Roger Clemens

Alex Rodriguez

Sammy Sosa

Mark McGwire

Rafael Palmeiro

Gary Sheffield

All down to and including ARod.

I don't think the others had good enough numbers to get into the HOF (and I am a Cubbies' fan).

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RE: MLB HOF - BostonCard - 05-14-2025

I agree that it stretches credulity that Ohtani didn’t at least know.  But I think there is a difference between thinking he probably was involved and subjecting him to a lifetime ban. Moreover, the translator maintains he never bet on baseball, though I don’t know that it could be verified. Rose didn’t just gamble; he bet on baseball (and if memory serves, he bet on Reds games, though he claims never to have bet against himself).
The thing about gambling addicts, though, is that it is an addiction so if Ohtani was involved, then I suspect this won’t be the last of it.

BC

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RE: MLB HOF - Leftcoast - 05-14-2025

Rose and Bonds are the all-time leaders in hits and home runs respectively.  The voters will hold their noses and put them in.

I’m less sure of the others but probably Jackson, every one knows his story and for some reason he’s stayed talk-show relevant.

Clemons and ARod are toss-ups.  Talented for sure but the world is quickly forgetting their on the field excellence and when they are remembered at all it is rarely baseball related.

The rest are in a pack of steroid casualties without a push from somewhere or someone.

YMMV

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RE: MLB HOF - BostonCard - 05-14-2025

The criteria (supposedly) are 

Quote:record, playing ability, integrity, sportsmanship, character, and contributions to the team(s)

Yeah, there are HoF players with questionable sportsmanship and character, but including most of the players on that list makes a mockery of the stated criteria

BC

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RE: MLB HOF - Mick - 05-14-2025

Personally, I don't care about the various HoFs. I haven't visited, nor will I ever visit any sports Hall of Fame. I just don't like clubs to which you have to be invited based on (a) floating criteria and (b) a vote of your non-peers. 

I really enjoy all the main sports, I venerate the good and great players, I appreciate everything they did to provide entertainment. I have great memories. And I know that many of them value election to those Halls. BTW, it is the height of hypocrisy to exhibit the equipment of great players when those players are barred from being elected.

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RE: MLB HOF - Giants - 05-14-2025

terry dateline='[url=tel:1747252187' Wrote:  1747252187[/url]']
A question for all of you -- If you had a vote, which of the following players would you vote to include in the Hall of Fame?

Pete Rose

Shoeless Joe Jackson

Barry Bonds

Roger Clemens

Alex Rodriguez

Sammy Sosa

Mark McGwire

Rafael Palmeiro

Gary Sheffield

Rose
Jackson
Bonds
Clemens
Rodriguez
Sosa

All six of them deserve a place in the Hall.  They were outstanding players.

Note:  If we are going to nitpick over their off-field behavior, we should take a long, hard look at the existing enshrines who had significant character flaws.  

Note2: I am an advocate of judging players by what they accomplished between the white lines.

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RE: MLB HOF - BostonCard - 05-14-2025

(05-14-2025, 07:53 PM)Giants Wrote:  Note2: I am an advocate of judging players by what they accomplished between the white lines.

I think that's fine, and maybe preferable, but if that's the case, let's get rid of the hypocrisy and say that the Hall of Fame criteria are based solely on what happens between the white lines and that "Voting shall be based upon the player’s record, playing ability, integrity, sportsmanship, character, and contributions to the team(s) on which the player played."

And your point about prior honorees with character flaws is well taken.

BC

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