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WBB: Stanford 75 WSU 41 - 81alum - 01-19-2012

Stanford's offense got off to a very slow start against a much smaller but quick and constantly moving, energetic WSU defense.  WSU got the first basket and still led with 5:32 left in the first half.  But over the next 5 minutes Stanford finally got things rolling and led 31-20 at the half.  When the reserves took over mid way through the second half they played well enough to keep extending the lead.

The most interesting things to me about this game were:

1.  Tara stayed with the "three bigs" starting lineup, playing the Ogwumike sisters as usual but using Joslyn Tinkle at the three and starting Amber Orrange at point and Toni Kokenis at the two.  This seems to be working pretty well.  Joslyn had 4 assists and no turnovers.  I remember at least two excellent passes from Joslyn at the foul line in to Chiney at the basket. 

2. Tara seemed to keep them in a zone almost the whole game--Viking Guy can correct me.  I saw a lot of 2-1-2.  At some points they trapped effectively out of the zone.  It seemed to me that they were pretty aggressive, which did leave a couple of back doors open along the way, but they often brought two out to trap and harass whoever had the ball.  WSU passed well enough to get a few somewhat open 3s against the zone, but they shot the three so poorly that I guess there was never a reason to leave the zone.  I did see some "man", and noticed that Amber seemed to be doing a much better job fighting around the screens than I had seen previously.

3. The reserves played well.  Erica Payne, playing late in the game, drove the ball to the basket extremely well at least three times, scoring a couple of times and getting a foul.  Sara James hit a 3.  Bonnie Samuelson had 8 points including a layup, proving she can score from within 30 feet!

4. Three point shooting is still an issue.  We were just 20% or 4 of 20.  Bonnie missed 3 times on the first possession she was in the game, and then went a respectable 2-4.  Toni was 0-4, Taylor 0-2, Lindy 0-2.  Not sure why the team is having such a three point drought.  (The team is now .323 for three point shooting for the year.  Last year we were .361 for the year.)

5. We seem to often start very slow offensively, but so far our defense keeps us close enough to overcome our poor offensive starts.  I wonder if this is because the energy level of the opponent's defense is very high but simply cannot be sustained, or whether it just takes time for our offense to get in sync. 

Nneka had 22 points and 10 rebounds, Chiney had 18 points and 12 rebounds, Joslyn had 9 points and 8 rebounds, and Bonnie had 8 points.  The team had 16 more rebounds than WSU.  We had 19 assists as a team--very impressive, with Toni getting 5, Joslyn 4, and Amber 3.  Chiney made 5/6 free throws, which must be a confidence booster for her after her earlier troubles.

WSU shot 27.7% tonight and only 10% from three, so I guess the defense worked.  It just seems so un-Tara like to me to see almost no man coverage.

WBB: Stanford 75 WSU 41 - 81alum - 01-19-2012

Stanford's offense got off to a very slow start against a much smaller but quick and constantly moving, energetic WSU defense.  WSU got the first basket and still led with 5:32 left in the first half.  But over the next 5 minutes Stanford finally got things rolling and led 31-20 at the half.  When the reserves took over mid way through the second half they played well enough to keep extending the lead.

The most interesting things to me about this game were:

1.  Tara stayed with the "three bigs" starting lineup, playing the Ogwumike sisters as usual but using Joslyn Tinkle at the three and starting Amber Orrange at point and Toni Kokenis at the two.  This seems to be working pretty well.  Joslyn had 4 assists and no turnovers.  I remember at least two excellent passes from Joslyn at the foul line in to Chiney at the basket. 

2. Tara seemed to keep them in a zone almost the whole game--Viking Guy can correct me.  I saw a lot of 2-1-2.  At some points they trapped effectively out of the zone.  It seemed to me that they were pretty aggressive, which did leave a couple of back doors open along the way, but they often brought two out to trap and harass whoever had the ball.  WSU passed well enough to get a few somewhat open 3s against the zone, but they shot the three so poorly that I guess there was never a reason to leave the zone.  I did see some "man", and noticed that Amber seemed to be doing a much better job fighting around the screens than I had seen previously.

3. The reserves played well.  Erica Payne, playing late in the game, drove the ball to the basket extremely well at least three times, scoring a couple of times and getting a foul.  Sara James hit a 3.  Bonnie Samuelson had 8 points including a layup, proving she can score from within 30 feet!

4. Three point shooting is still an issue.  We were just 20% or 4 of 20.  Bonnie missed 3 times on the first possession she was in the game, and then went a respectable 2-4.  Toni was 0-4, Taylor 0-2, Lindy 0-2.  Not sure why the team is having such a three point drought.  (The team is now .323 for three point shooting for the year.  Last year we were .361 for the year.)

5. We seem to often start very slow offensively, but so far our defense keeps us close enough to overcome our poor offensive starts.  I wonder if this is because the energy level of the opponent's defense is very high but simply cannot be sustained, or whether it just takes time for our offense to get in sync. 

Nneka had 22 points and 10 rebounds, Chiney had 18 points and 12 rebounds, Joslyn had 9 points and 8 rebounds, and Bonnie had 8 points.  The team had 16 more rebounds than WSU.  We had 19 assists as a team--very impressive, with Toni getting 5, Joslyn 4, and Amber 3.  Chiney made 5/6 free throws, which must be a confidence booster for her after her earlier troubles.

WSU shot 27.7% tonight and only 10% from three, so I guess the defense worked.  It just seems so un-Tara like to me to see almost no man coverage.

WBB: Stanford 75 WSU 41 - 81alum - 01-19-2012

Stanford's offense got off to a very slow start against a much smaller but quick and constantly moving, energetic WSU defense.  WSU got the first basket and still led with 5:32 left in the first half.  But over the next 5 minutes Stanford finally got things rolling and led 31-20 at the half.  When the reserves took over mid way through the second half they played well enough to keep extending the lead.

The most interesting things to me about this game were:

1.  Tara stayed with the "three bigs" starting lineup, playing the Ogwumike sisters as usual but using Joslyn Tinkle at the three and starting Amber Orrange at point and Toni Kokenis at the two.  This seems to be working pretty well.  Joslyn had 4 assists and no turnovers.  I remember at least two excellent passes from Joslyn at the foul line in to Chiney at the basket. 

2. Tara seemed to keep them in a zone almost the whole game--Viking Guy can correct me.  I saw a lot of 2-1-2.  At some points they trapped effectively out of the zone.  It seemed to me that they were pretty aggressive, which did leave a couple of back doors open along the way, but they often brought two out to trap and harass whoever had the ball.  WSU passed well enough to get a few somewhat open 3s against the zone, but they shot the three so poorly that I guess there was never a reason to leave the zone.  I did see some "man", and noticed that Amber seemed to be doing a much better job fighting around the screens than I had seen previously.

3. The reserves played well.  Erica Payne, playing late in the game, drove the ball to the basket extremely well at least three times, scoring a couple of times and getting a foul.  Sara James hit a 3.  Bonnie Samuelson had 8 points including a layup, proving she can score from within 30 feet!

4. Three point shooting is still an issue.  We were just 20% or 4 of 20.  Bonnie missed 3 times on the first possession she was in the game, and then went a respectable 2-4.  Toni was 0-4, Taylor 0-2, Lindy 0-2.  Not sure why the team is having such a three point drought.  (The team is now .323 for three point shooting for the year.  Last year we were .361 for the year.)

5. We seem to often start very slow offensively, but so far our defense keeps us close enough to overcome our poor offensive starts.  I wonder if this is because the energy level of the opponent's defense is very high but simply cannot be sustained, or whether it just takes time for our offense to get in sync. 

Nneka had 22 points and 10 rebounds, Chiney had 18 points and 12 rebounds, Joslyn had 9 points and 8 rebounds, and Bonnie had 8 points.  The team had 16 more rebounds than WSU.  We had 19 assists as a team--very impressive, with Toni getting 5, Joslyn 4, and Amber 3.  Chiney made 5/6 free throws, which must be a confidence booster for her after her earlier troubles.

WSU shot 27.7% tonight and only 10% from three, so I guess the defense worked.  It just seems so un-Tara like to me to see almost no man coverage.

Re: WBB: Stanford 75 WSU 41 - Viking_Guy - 01-19-2012

A tale of really disparate runs of play: opening 4 minutes okay, 10 minutes of pure ick, then about 20 minutes or so of great play, then garbage time.  Although that in itself is a little too simple.

Stanford actually opened up okay, having success against the WSU defense and finding cutters for layups, plus a 3 from Joslyn which she followed with a nice fastbreak finish to give Stanford a 9-7 lead at the first media timeout.  Then WSU did a line change, bringing in four new players and changing defenses.  And all of a sudden, Stanford couldn't buy a bucket.  They appeared to switch to a floating zone, not chasing the shooters particularly hard off the ball, and Stanford again had problems working against it

From the 16 minute mark til the 9 minute mark of the first half, Stanford scored exactly four points.  Two free throws by Chiney, and one very nice pass by Amber to a cutting Toni, failed entirely to overcome 3 turnovers, and something like 8 missed shots.  WSU, meanwhile, had some success against the Cardinal's player-to-player defense, as their guards were consistently able to beat defenders at the point of attack and get into the lane, then make good decisions as the defense rotated to help and hit the open player.  They led 16-13 midway through the half.

Then Stanford changed up the defense, and brought in that 2-1-2 zone look that I've been talking about and that 81Alum mentions. 

The Cougars scored 4 points in the last 10 minutes of the half.

It took a few more minutes for the Cardinal offense to get untracked; Nneka had a steal and fastbreak layup, but then Stanford missed FIVE consecutive three point shots and had a turnover that allowed WSU to not pay for only scoring 2 points in 3 minutes or so of clock time.

Not sure what changed.  Part of it was a couple of very nice athletic moves and offensive rebounds from Chiney that gave Stanford the lead back at 19-18.  Another part of it was more personnel changes or perhaps fatigue on the part of the Cougars' defense.  But I think a larger part of it was simply that WSU stopped scoring, with turnovers and long rebounds off badly missed three point shots that led to transition and secondary transition opportunities.

I was a bit concerned when Stanford had a couple of empty possessions late in the half and WSU had a chance to cut into the lead; they hit their first bucket in the last six minutes of the half off an offensive rebound and layup, then got a quick Stanford miss on a three pointer by Jos.  The Cougars tried to drive inside on the last play of the half, but Tinkle made up for her miss by coming up with the steal, then firing a long pass to Toni who just beat the buzzer to get to the final halftime score.

The first half was offensively, well, ugly.  Take away three fast break layups, and Stanford shot 8-30 from the field with 10 turnovers.  WSU off their penetration was getting into the paint, and Stanford's bench contribution was a lone three by Samuelson in the end of half run.  Toni looked out of sync and out of sorts (the Cougar guards, especially Adzasu, might actually outquick her).  All in all, an ugh only salvaged by the opening and ending of the half, outweighing a middle 10 minutes of 6 points on 2-18 shooting with 4 turnovers.

The second half began as the first ended; Stanford becoming a bit more efficient on offense, and WSU hitting an average of a shot every, well, four minutes or so.  The Cougars hit the opening bucket to cut the lead to 8, then only had a FT til a baseline jumper about 4 minutes in.  Then again nothing until after the under-12 minute media timeout.

WSU also for some reason switched back to a player-to-player defense, and Nneka and Chiney went to town inside.  They scored 16 of Stanford's first 17 points of the half, all in the paint, before Lindy converted a fastbreak and-1 opportunity.  By that point, the lead was 25, and any chance of an upset was essentially gone.


For me, gameball to Chiney narrowly over Nneka; she had the advantage of not trying to beat WSU's zone with outside jumpers, and after missing her first shot from the field hit her last 7 to go with 12 rebounds and 5-6 from the line.  Nneka had 22 and 10, but spent a bit too much time outside against an eminently beatable WSU frontline (I don't know, maybe she was preparing to try to draw UW's giant Regina Rogers away from the hoop on Saturday).

More problematic - I think Jos, despite a tough shooting night, has settled in at the 3.  But now both the 1 and 2 spots are really struggling; the primaries at that spot went 3-16 (Toni 2-8, Lindy 1-4 on that fastbreak, Amber 0-4 but with some FTs from breaks she couldn't finish) and 0-7 from 3 pt range.

I agree; I'm a big Erica Payne fan, and love that she's playing on the perimeter with enthusiasm and energy in limited minutes.  I'd like to see what she could do as a defensive stopper, as I've said in the past.  But also love the fact that, unlike a lot of Stanford's perimeter players, she can finish on contested drives to the hoop.  Lindy tries, but doesn't get enough lift and often gets blocked, while Toni seems only rarely to remember that she's a good cutter and finisher.  Part of that might be, not to beat a severely wounded equine, that Stanford's triangle is more about feeding the post than creating the opportunity for a slasher to the basket, and Toni seems to prefer driving from the top rather than from the wing, so her positioning at the 2 doesn't fit her comfort zone for taking it into the lane.  That slashing game is what Stanford really lacks in these games when the outside shooting is cold.

VG


Re: WBB: Stanford 75 WSU 41 - Viking_Guy - 01-19-2012

A tale of really disparate runs of play: opening 4 minutes okay, 10 minutes of pure ick, then about 20 minutes or so of great play, then garbage time.  Although that in itself is a little too simple.

Stanford actually opened up okay, having success against the WSU defense and finding cutters for layups, plus a 3 from Joslyn which she followed with a nice fastbreak finish to give Stanford a 9-7 lead at the first media timeout.  Then WSU did a line change, bringing in four new players and changing defenses.  And all of a sudden, Stanford couldn't buy a bucket.  They appeared to switch to a floating zone, not chasing the shooters particularly hard off the ball, and Stanford again had problems working against it

From the 16 minute mark til the 9 minute mark of the first half, Stanford scored exactly four points.  Two free throws by Chiney, and one very nice pass by Amber to a cutting Toni, failed entirely to overcome 3 turnovers, and something like 8 missed shots.  WSU, meanwhile, had some success against the Cardinal's player-to-player defense, as their guards were consistently able to beat defenders at the point of attack and get into the lane, then make good decisions as the defense rotated to help and hit the open player.  They led 16-13 midway through the half.

Then Stanford changed up the defense, and brought in that 2-1-2 zone look that I've been talking about and that 81Alum mentions. 

The Cougars scored 4 points in the last 10 minutes of the half.

It took a few more minutes for the Cardinal offense to get untracked; Nneka had a steal and fastbreak layup, but then Stanford missed FIVE consecutive three point shots and had a turnover that allowed WSU to not pay for only scoring 2 points in 3 minutes or so of clock time.

Not sure what changed.  Part of it was a couple of very nice athletic moves and offensive rebounds from Chiney that gave Stanford the lead back at 19-18.  Another part of it was more personnel changes or perhaps fatigue on the part of the Cougars' defense.  But I think a larger part of it was simply that WSU stopped scoring, with turnovers and long rebounds off badly missed three point shots that led to transition and secondary transition opportunities.

I was a bit concerned when Stanford had a couple of empty possessions late in the half and WSU had a chance to cut into the lead; they hit their first bucket in the last six minutes of the half off an offensive rebound and layup, then got a quick Stanford miss on a three pointer by Jos.  The Cougars tried to drive inside on the last play of the half, but Tinkle made up for her miss by coming up with the steal, then firing a long pass to Toni who just beat the buzzer to get to the final halftime score.

The first half was offensively, well, ugly.  Take away three fast break layups, and Stanford shot 8-30 from the field with 10 turnovers.  WSU off their penetration was getting into the paint, and Stanford's bench contribution was a lone three by Samuelson in the end of half run.  Toni looked out of sync and out of sorts (the Cougar guards, especially Adzasu, might actually outquick her).  All in all, an ugh only salvaged by the opening and ending of the half, outweighing a middle 10 minutes of 6 points on 2-18 shooting with 4 turnovers.

The second half began as the first ended; Stanford becoming a bit more efficient on offense, and WSU hitting an average of a shot every, well, four minutes or so.  The Cougars hit the opening bucket to cut the lead to 8, then only had a FT til a baseline jumper about 4 minutes in.  Then again nothing until after the under-12 minute media timeout.

WSU also for some reason switched back to a player-to-player defense, and Nneka and Chiney went to town inside.  They scored 16 of Stanford's first 17 points of the half, all in the paint, before Lindy converted a fastbreak and-1 opportunity.  By that point, the lead was 25, and any chance of an upset was essentially gone.


For me, gameball to Chiney narrowly over Nneka; she had the advantage of not trying to beat WSU's zone with outside jumpers, and after missing her first shot from the field hit her last 7 to go with 12 rebounds and 5-6 from the line.  Nneka had 22 and 10, but spent a bit too much time outside against an eminently beatable WSU frontline (I don't know, maybe she was preparing to try to draw UW's giant Regina Rogers away from the hoop on Saturday).

More problematic - I think Jos, despite a tough shooting night, has settled in at the 3.  But now both the 1 and 2 spots are really struggling; the primaries at that spot went 3-16 (Toni 2-8, Lindy 1-4 on that fastbreak, Amber 0-4 but with some FTs from breaks she couldn't finish) and 0-7 from 3 pt range.

I agree; I'm a big Erica Payne fan, and love that she's playing on the perimeter with enthusiasm and energy in limited minutes.  I'd like to see what she could do as a defensive stopper, as I've said in the past.  But also love the fact that, unlike a lot of Stanford's perimeter players, she can finish on contested drives to the hoop.  Lindy tries, but doesn't get enough lift and often gets blocked, while Toni seems only rarely to remember that she's a good cutter and finisher.  Part of that might be, not to beat a severely wounded equine, that Stanford's triangle is more about feeding the post than creating the opportunity for a slasher to the basket, and Toni seems to prefer driving from the top rather than from the wing, so her positioning at the 2 doesn't fit her comfort zone for taking it into the lane.  That slashing game is what Stanford really lacks in these games when the outside shooting is cold.

VG


Re: WBB: Stanford 75 WSU 41 - Viking_Guy - 01-19-2012

A tale of really disparate runs of play: opening 4 minutes okay, 10 minutes of pure ick, then about 20 minutes or so of great play, then garbage time.  Although that in itself is a little too simple.

Stanford actually opened up okay, having success against the WSU defense and finding cutters for layups, plus a 3 from Joslyn which she followed with a nice fastbreak finish to give Stanford a 9-7 lead at the first media timeout.  Then WSU did a line change, bringing in four new players and changing defenses.  And all of a sudden, Stanford couldn't buy a bucket.  They appeared to switch to a floating zone, not chasing the shooters particularly hard off the ball, and Stanford again had problems working against it

From the 16 minute mark til the 9 minute mark of the first half, Stanford scored exactly four points.  Two free throws by Chiney, and one very nice pass by Amber to a cutting Toni, failed entirely to overcome 3 turnovers, and something like 8 missed shots.  WSU, meanwhile, had some success against the Cardinal's player-to-player defense, as their guards were consistently able to beat defenders at the point of attack and get into the lane, then make good decisions as the defense rotated to help and hit the open player.  They led 16-13 midway through the half.

Then Stanford changed up the defense, and brought in that 2-1-2 zone look that I've been talking about and that 81Alum mentions. 

The Cougars scored 4 points in the last 10 minutes of the half.

It took a few more minutes for the Cardinal offense to get untracked; Nneka had a steal and fastbreak layup, but then Stanford missed FIVE consecutive three point shots and had a turnover that allowed WSU to not pay for only scoring 2 points in 3 minutes or so of clock time.

Not sure what changed.  Part of it was a couple of very nice athletic moves and offensive rebounds from Chiney that gave Stanford the lead back at 19-18.  Another part of it was more personnel changes or perhaps fatigue on the part of the Cougars' defense.  But I think a larger part of it was simply that WSU stopped scoring, with turnovers and long rebounds off badly missed three point shots that led to transition and secondary transition opportunities.

I was a bit concerned when Stanford had a couple of empty possessions late in the half and WSU had a chance to cut into the lead; they hit their first bucket in the last six minutes of the half off an offensive rebound and layup, then got a quick Stanford miss on a three pointer by Jos.  The Cougars tried to drive inside on the last play of the half, but Tinkle made up for her miss by coming up with the steal, then firing a long pass to Toni who just beat the buzzer to get to the final halftime score.

The first half was offensively, well, ugly.  Take away three fast break layups, and Stanford shot 8-30 from the field with 10 turnovers.  WSU off their penetration was getting into the paint, and Stanford's bench contribution was a lone three by Samuelson in the end of half run.  Toni looked out of sync and out of sorts (the Cougar guards, especially Adzasu, might actually outquick her).  All in all, an ugh only salvaged by the opening and ending of the half, outweighing a middle 10 minutes of 6 points on 2-18 shooting with 4 turnovers.

The second half began as the first ended; Stanford becoming a bit more efficient on offense, and WSU hitting an average of a shot every, well, four minutes or so.  The Cougars hit the opening bucket to cut the lead to 8, then only had a FT til a baseline jumper about 4 minutes in.  Then again nothing until after the under-12 minute media timeout.

WSU also for some reason switched back to a player-to-player defense, and Nneka and Chiney went to town inside.  They scored 16 of Stanford's first 17 points of the half, all in the paint, before Lindy converted a fastbreak and-1 opportunity.  By that point, the lead was 25, and any chance of an upset was essentially gone.


For me, gameball to Chiney narrowly over Nneka; she had the advantage of not trying to beat WSU's zone with outside jumpers, and after missing her first shot from the field hit her last 7 to go with 12 rebounds and 5-6 from the line.  Nneka had 22 and 10, but spent a bit too much time outside against an eminently beatable WSU frontline (I don't know, maybe she was preparing to try to draw UW's giant Regina Rogers away from the hoop on Saturday).

More problematic - I think Jos, despite a tough shooting night, has settled in at the 3.  But now both the 1 and 2 spots are really struggling; the primaries at that spot went 3-16 (Toni 2-8, Lindy 1-4 on that fastbreak, Amber 0-4 but with some FTs from breaks she couldn't finish) and 0-7 from 3 pt range.

I agree; I'm a big Erica Payne fan, and love that she's playing on the perimeter with enthusiasm and energy in limited minutes.  I'd like to see what she could do as a defensive stopper, as I've said in the past.  But also love the fact that, unlike a lot of Stanford's perimeter players, she can finish on contested drives to the hoop.  Lindy tries, but doesn't get enough lift and often gets blocked, while Toni seems only rarely to remember that she's a good cutter and finisher.  Part of that might be, not to beat a severely wounded equine, that Stanford's triangle is more about feeding the post than creating the opportunity for a slasher to the basket, and Toni seems to prefer driving from the top rather than from the wing, so her positioning at the 2 doesn't fit her comfort zone for taking it into the lane.  That slashing game is what Stanford really lacks in these games when the outside shooting is cold.

VG


Re: WBB: Stanford 75 WSU 41 - 81alum - 01-20-2012

The AP article and WSU coach Dougherty  credit Stanford's switching to the "high 2-3 zone" as the key to the game.

Stanford also got a boost from its own defense, which held the Cougars to 27.3 percent shooting. VanDerveer, who has juggled her lineup in recent weeks, had the Cardinal move to a high 2/3 zone which gave Washington State fits.

"That's when we struggled the most," Daugherty said. "We missed some very easy layups and they stayed in it. Of course you'd stay in it when teams are missing easy layups."

VG, that zone came in when?  About when we got the lead for good, with 5 minutes left in the half, or did we go to that zone earlier?

Elliot Almond calls our zone the "half court zone trap" and says Stanford picked it up from Davis last year.  Is this the same thing as the 2-1-2 we saw or was he referring to something else that we did?

Stanford unleashed a half-court zone trap that resulted in a lopsided 75-41 Pac-12 victory at Maples Pavilion.

"It's our version of a full-court press," coach Tara VanDerveer said.

It was something not seen at Maples for a long time. However, it's something the Cardinal (16-1, 7-0 Pac-12) has practiced this season after watching U.C. D.avis employ it in the NCAA tournament last year. VanDerveer plans to use the trap sporadically "like a blitz in football" as Stanford continues its trek toward March Madness and a fifth consecutive appearance in the Final Four.

Re: WBB: Stanford 75 WSU 41 - 81alum - 01-20-2012

The AP article and WSU coach Dougherty  credit Stanford's switching to the "high 2-3 zone" as the key to the game.

Stanford also got a boost from its own defense, which held the Cougars to 27.3 percent shooting. VanDerveer, who has juggled her lineup in recent weeks, had the Cardinal move to a high 2/3 zone which gave Washington State fits.

"That's when we struggled the most," Daugherty said. "We missed some very easy layups and they stayed in it. Of course you'd stay in it when teams are missing easy layups."

VG, that zone came in when?  About when we got the lead for good, with 5 minutes left in the half, or did we go to that zone earlier?

Elliot Almond calls our zone the "half court zone trap" and says Stanford picked it up from Davis last year.  Is this the same thing as the 2-1-2 we saw or was he referring to something else that we did?

Stanford unleashed a half-court zone trap that resulted in a lopsided 75-41 Pac-12 victory at Maples Pavilion.

"It's our version of a full-court press," coach Tara VanDerveer said.

It was something not seen at Maples for a long time. However, it's something the Cardinal (16-1, 7-0 Pac-12) has practiced this season after watching U.C. D.avis employ it in the NCAA tournament last year. VanDerveer plans to use the trap sporadically "like a blitz in football" as Stanford continues its trek toward March Madness and a fifth consecutive appearance in the Final Four.

Re: WBB: Stanford 75 WSU 41 - 81alum - 01-20-2012

The AP article and WSU coach Dougherty  credit Stanford's switching to the "high 2-3 zone" as the key to the game.

Stanford also got a boost from its own defense, which held the Cougars to 27.3 percent shooting. VanDerveer, who has juggled her lineup in recent weeks, had the Cardinal move to a high 2/3 zone which gave Washington State fits.

"That's when we struggled the most," Daugherty said. "We missed some very easy layups and they stayed in it. Of course you'd stay in it when teams are missing easy layups."

VG, that zone came in when?  About when we got the lead for good, with 5 minutes left in the half, or did we go to that zone earlier?

Elliot Almond calls our zone the "half court zone trap" and says Stanford picked it up from Davis last year.  Is this the same thing as the 2-1-2 we saw or was he referring to something else that we did?

Stanford unleashed a half-court zone trap that resulted in a lopsided 75-41 Pac-12 victory at Maples Pavilion.

"It's our version of a full-court press," coach Tara VanDerveer said.

It was something not seen at Maples for a long time. However, it's something the Cardinal (16-1, 7-0 Pac-12) has practiced this season after watching U.C. D.avis employ it in the NCAA tournament last year. VanDerveer plans to use the trap sporadically "like a blitz in football" as Stanford continues its trek toward March Madness and a fifth consecutive appearance in the Final Four.

Re: WBB: Stanford 75 WSU 41 - Viking_Guy - 01-20-2012

81--

I think it came in at about the 7 minute mark in the first half, when Chiney reentered in place of Jos with two fouls on her.  Right after that, Adzasu reentered the game, but she was never able to find the same amount of driving space by beating the initial defender as she had earlier in the half.

I still think of it as more of a 2-1-2 than a "high 2-3," though.  Two guards high on the wings, and the three bigger players in a triangle, one at the free throw line and the other two a few feet outside the paint on either side guarding the baseline.  It really concentrates on taking away the lane, but concedes the deep corners and the top of the key (rather than the opposite wing and FT line like a 2-3 often does).  One thing it does very well is take away what WSU was doing last night, the interior pass off penetration as the post defenders rotate; the paint is too crowded for it to go through.  If you've got consistent outside shooters from that deep corner, though, it can be very vulnerable, as has happened in earlier games this year.  It also appears to be designed to stop the initial drive by clogging the lanes to the paint, rather than the 2-3's concentration on stopping the ball at the hoop.  WSU's guards had shown a solid mid-range game by that point.

Like the fact that it was inspired by D.avis' game last year.  Wasn't Tara friends with their retiring coach?\

VG

Re: WBB: Stanford 75 WSU 41 - Viking_Guy - 01-20-2012

81--

I think it came in at about the 7 minute mark in the first half, when Chiney reentered in place of Jos with two fouls on her.  Right after that, Adzasu reentered the game, but she was never able to find the same amount of driving space by beating the initial defender as she had earlier in the half.

I still think of it as more of a 2-1-2 than a "high 2-3," though.  Two guards high on the wings, and the three bigger players in a triangle, one at the free throw line and the other two a few feet outside the paint on either side guarding the baseline.  It really concentrates on taking away the lane, but concedes the deep corners and the top of the key (rather than the opposite wing and FT line like a 2-3 often does).  One thing it does very well is take away what WSU was doing last night, the interior pass off penetration as the post defenders rotate; the paint is too crowded for it to go through.  If you've got consistent outside shooters from that deep corner, though, it can be very vulnerable, as has happened in earlier games this year.  It also appears to be designed to stop the initial drive by clogging the lanes to the paint, rather than the 2-3's concentration on stopping the ball at the hoop.  WSU's guards had shown a solid mid-range game by that point.

Like the fact that it was inspired by D.avis' game last year.  Wasn't Tara friends with their retiring coach?\

VG

Re: WBB: Stanford 75 WSU 41 - Viking_Guy - 01-20-2012

81--

I think it came in at about the 7 minute mark in the first half, when Chiney reentered in place of Jos with two fouls on her.  Right after that, Adzasu reentered the game, but she was never able to find the same amount of driving space by beating the initial defender as she had earlier in the half.

I still think of it as more of a 2-1-2 than a "high 2-3," though.  Two guards high on the wings, and the three bigger players in a triangle, one at the free throw line and the other two a few feet outside the paint on either side guarding the baseline.  It really concentrates on taking away the lane, but concedes the deep corners and the top of the key (rather than the opposite wing and FT line like a 2-3 often does).  One thing it does very well is take away what WSU was doing last night, the interior pass off penetration as the post defenders rotate; the paint is too crowded for it to go through.  If you've got consistent outside shooters from that deep corner, though, it can be very vulnerable, as has happened in earlier games this year.  It also appears to be designed to stop the initial drive by clogging the lanes to the paint, rather than the 2-3's concentration on stopping the ball at the hoop.  WSU's guards had shown a solid mid-range game by that point.

Like the fact that it was inspired by D.avis' game last year.  Wasn't Tara friends with their retiring coach?\

VG

Re: WBB: Stanford 75 WSU 41 - Yellowlab - 01-20-2012

I thought something else changed with the switch to the zone.  It just seemed as though Stanford's defensive intensity picked up.  The sheer energy level made an impression on me.

I think Amber is going to make it has a low turnover/good assist/pesky defender of a point guard, but it does not look as though she's going to scare anyone with her mid-range or outside shooting.  Toni's outside shooting woes looks to me like she's being too mechanical.  I think she's aiming the ball instead of just shooting.  I have no explanation for Lyndy.  I thought her shot looked good, but it didn't go down.  There is no question that the outside shooting has to come around for this team to make a deep run in the tournament.

I was very happy with Jos.  She once again was scrappy on the boards, and played good help D.  I really like the way the offense looks when she is at or near the foul line. 

Re: WBB: Stanford 75 WSU 41 - Yellowlab - 01-20-2012

I thought something else changed with the switch to the zone.  It just seemed as though Stanford's defensive intensity picked up.  The sheer energy level made an impression on me.

I think Amber is going to make it has a low turnover/good assist/pesky defender of a point guard, but it does not look as though she's going to scare anyone with her mid-range or outside shooting.  Toni's outside shooting woes looks to me like she's being too mechanical.  I think she's aiming the ball instead of just shooting.  I have no explanation for Lyndy.  I thought her shot looked good, but it didn't go down.  There is no question that the outside shooting has to come around for this team to make a deep run in the tournament.

I was very happy with Jos.  She once again was scrappy on the boards, and played good help D.  I really like the way the offense looks when she is at or near the foul line. 

Re: WBB: Stanford 75 WSU 41 - Yellowlab - 01-20-2012

I thought something else changed with the switch to the zone.  It just seemed as though Stanford's defensive intensity picked up.  The sheer energy level made an impression on me.

I think Amber is going to make it has a low turnover/good assist/pesky defender of a point guard, but it does not look as though she's going to scare anyone with her mid-range or outside shooting.  Toni's outside shooting woes looks to me like she's being too mechanical.  I think she's aiming the ball instead of just shooting.  I have no explanation for Lyndy.  I thought her shot looked good, but it didn't go down.  There is no question that the outside shooting has to come around for this team to make a deep run in the tournament.

I was very happy with Jos.  She once again was scrappy on the boards, and played good help D.  I really like the way the offense looks when she is at or near the foul line. 

Re: WBB: Stanford 75 WSU 41 - westcard - 01-20-2012

The 2 1 2 trapping defense was originated by Russ Davis and Vanguard and taken on by UC Davis old coach Sandy. It works with teams that have really good length, which we do,  as seen by the last 7 minutes of the first half, WSU had real trouble scoring and when they did get a shot it was a rushed 3 at the end of the shot clock. I see this being used as the players with length get better at trapping at the correct spots creating steals when a lobbed pass has to be made out of the trap. With Toni at the 1 we can go big at the other 4 spots - Jos, Bonnie, Chiney and Nneka who were in at that time caused trouble for WSU guards and it stopped their penetration.


I think the lineup and subbing could continue to change on a regular basis as I don't see Lindy and Taylor combination working as the offense tends to stall.

Did anyone notice that Boothe seemed to pull up injured? This could hurt against Rogers in the next game if the O sisters pick up early fouls.



Re: WBB: Stanford 75 WSU 41 - westcard - 01-20-2012

The 2 1 2 trapping defense was originated by Russ Davis and Vanguard and taken on by UC Davis old coach Sandy. It works with teams that have really good length, which we do,  as seen by the last 7 minutes of the first half, WSU had real trouble scoring and when they did get a shot it was a rushed 3 at the end of the shot clock. I see this being used as the players with length get better at trapping at the correct spots creating steals when a lobbed pass has to be made out of the trap. With Toni at the 1 we can go big at the other 4 spots - Jos, Bonnie, Chiney and Nneka who were in at that time caused trouble for WSU guards and it stopped their penetration.


I think the lineup and subbing could continue to change on a regular basis as I don't see Lindy and Taylor combination working as the offense tends to stall.

Did anyone notice that Boothe seemed to pull up injured? This could hurt against Rogers in the next game if the O sisters pick up early fouls.



Re: WBB: Stanford 75 WSU 41 - westcard - 01-20-2012

The 2 1 2 trapping defense was originated by Russ Davis and Vanguard and taken on by UC Davis old coach Sandy. It works with teams that have really good length, which we do,  as seen by the last 7 minutes of the first half, WSU had real trouble scoring and when they did get a shot it was a rushed 3 at the end of the shot clock. I see this being used as the players with length get better at trapping at the correct spots creating steals when a lobbed pass has to be made out of the trap. With Toni at the 1 we can go big at the other 4 spots - Jos, Bonnie, Chiney and Nneka who were in at that time caused trouble for WSU guards and it stopped their penetration.


I think the lineup and subbing could continue to change on a regular basis as I don't see Lindy and Taylor combination working as the offense tends to stall.

Did anyone notice that Boothe seemed to pull up injured? This could hurt against Rogers in the next game if the O sisters pick up early fouls.



Re: WBB: Stanford 75 WSU 41 - CompSci87 - 01-20-2012

Quote:Did anyone notice that Boothe seemed to pull up injured?

Yes, it looked like something was wrong when Taylor replaced her late in the game. She seemed to be grimacing. Hopefully it was something minor.

Re: WBB: Stanford 75 WSU 41 - CompSci87 - 01-20-2012

Quote:Did anyone notice that Boothe seemed to pull up injured?

Yes, it looked like something was wrong when Taylor replaced her late in the game. She seemed to be grimacing. Hopefully it was something minor.