What to do about Josh - Printable Version
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What to do about Josh - yvonne - 10-13-2012
Even in most of the victories (San Jose State and Duke being the only exceptions), Josh has started out very badly. The coaches seem to believe that being patient with him will enable him to get some confidence and maybe pull it out at the end. What about throwing Kevin in there a little more often, but also allowing him to throw so as to keep defenses honest?
Re: What to do about Josh - fullmetal - 10-13-2012
There needs to be a change in the offense. Receivers are bricking balls, sure, but Nunes keeps throwing behind receivers at a substantial rate.
Playcalling didn't help either. They need to get tricky with run plays.
Re: What to do about Josh - needle - 10-13-2012
Yes, where is the creativity in the run game?
Granted, the unbalanced line shows some creativity, but Hewitt needs more touches and I'd like to see Young run out of the backfield more.
I really, really wish Barry J. was in the mix, but c'est la vie. At this point, the passing game is a bit of a lost cause (though I do think Montgomery makes things better when he's in, and I've never seen Terrell drop a pass), but there's still some untapped potential in the backfield.
Re: What to do about Josh - doug - 10-13-2012
Josh has limitations - he is very inaccurate on short throws, he throws a wobbly ball that can be difficult to catch, he locks onto his receivers and telegraphs where he is going even to the point of throwing to a receiver who is double covered. But I am beginning to think Shaw is a very big part of Josh's struggles. Shaw forces JN to play in handcuffs, especially early in games. The result is that JN plays with little confidence. He correctly interprets Shaw's priority as "don't make a mistake" and that failing to make plays will be forgiven but not mistakes. JN plays much better when we have to pass, as in Arizona game. He gets into a bit of a rhythm and looks much better.
I really, really dislike Shaw's conservative, don't go for it, don't make mistakes and "play not to lose" approach. This is now 2 games out of 6 in which the offense hasn't scored a TD. This team is strong and tough but boring to watch. Shaw's approach is going to result in crowds of ~20-25,000 soon if this doesn't change.
Another Shaw gripe: he makes the worst use of timeouts I have ever seen. We wasted 2 of our 3 TOs in the 1st half (one to avoid yet another drive-killing delay of game penalties), then had all 3 TOs in his pocket in the 2nd half. As ND was driving at the end of the 4th quarter, I was shouting at the TV "why aren't we calling TOs" to preserve some clock at the end of regulation, but no, Shaw was playing for OT. That is almost always a mistake when you are on the road, and it was again today.
Don't even get me started on the play-calling in OT.
Re: What to do about Josh - needle - 10-13-2012
I'm sure Shaw would have liked to have called TO after the second-and-goal run by Taylor.
BUT he had already burned the one TO allowed in OT.
I think if he has a time out to call before third and fourth down the play calls would have been different (might have been runs, but not just up-the-gut stuff that a good defense will stop the majority of the time when they know it's coming).
And, yeah, a TO would have helped Taylor who had to be running on fumes at that point.
Re: What to do about Josh - Cardinal96 - 10-13-2012
(10-13-2012, 06:57 PM)doug link Wrote:Josh has limitations - he is very inaccurate on short throws, he throws a wobbly ball that can be difficult to catch, he locks onto his receivers and telegraphs where he is going even to the point of throwing to a receiver who is double covered. But I am beginning to think Shaw is a very big part of Josh's struggles. Shaw forces JN to play in handcuffs, especially early in games. The result is that JN plays with little confidence. He correctly interprets Shaw's priority as "don't make a mistake" and that failing to make plays will be forgiven but not mistakes. JN plays much better when we have to pass, as in Arizona game. He gets into a bit of a rhythm and looks much better.
I really, really dislike Shaw's conservative, don't go for it, don't make mistakes and "play not to lose" approach. This is now 2 games out of 6 in which the offense hasn't scored a TD. This team is strong and tough but boring to watch. Shaw's approach is going to result in crowds of ~20-25,000 soon if this doesn't change.
Another Shaw gripe: he makes the worst use of timeouts I have ever seen. We wasted 2 of our 3 TOs in the 1st half (one to avoid yet another drive-killing delay of game penalties), then had all 3 TOs in his pocket in the 2nd half. As ND was driving at the end of the 4th quarter, I was shouting at the TV "why aren't we calling TOs" to preserve some clock at the end of regulation, but no, Shaw was playing for OT. That is almost always a mistake when you are on the road, and it was again today.
Don't even get me started on the play-calling in OT.
I agree with pretty much everything you just said there.
Re: What to do about Josh - Spiny_Norman - 10-13-2012
Stanford has less than 300 yards in total offense in 3 of its 6 games so far. QB play is not the only problem. A fish stinks from the head down.
Re: What to do about Josh - yvonne - 10-13-2012
True, but the coach needs to put the team in the position to win. If he has to do some swapping to accommodate a player's jitters, that's part of his responsibility.
Re: What to do about Josh - deepred - 10-13-2012
Josh really moved the ball on the field goal drive at the end of the first half. Why can't we see more of that???
Re: What to do about Josh - stan01 - 10-13-2012
You may be right about Nunes needing to be in a rhythm to perform better. At the end of the first half, he engineered a pretty good 1.5 minute drill, all throws. Will the Peat - Yankey - Schwarzstein - Danser - Flemming lineup ever happen this season or will Schwartzstein's prediction that Yankey will be one of the best LTs in the country by the end of the season come true? Did anyone else notice Patterson trying to figure out where he should line up after a play was called? Have the coaches forgotten that Ryan Hewitt was one of our best receivers last year? Is Mike Sanford so busy recruiting that the running game schemes are not tailored ("taylored") properly? Will we ever find a way to use Kelsey Young effectively? Should Wilkerson be our first backup RB? How many WRs played tonight? Is there a formal inquiry process for the replay refs to explain themselves? Is anyone else tired of the Notre Dame a** kissing happening on College Game Day (minus Mark May)? Has a single ND fan admitted the refs got it wrong? Should I have spent the afternoon playing with my toddler instead of watching this frustrating game?Â
Re: What to do about Josh - fullmetal - 10-13-2012
If only the offensive playcalling were fixed, we could have won. If only the QB woes were fixed, we could have won. If only the receiving woes were fixed, we maybe could have won.
Is the coaching staff addressing any of these? None have become 'acceptable.'
Re: What to do about Josh - socalstanfan1 - 10-13-2012
(10-13-2012, 08:23 PM)deepred link Wrote:Josh really moved the ball on the field goal drive at the end of the first half. Why can't we see more of that???
Partly because teams don't play a prevent defense until the last couple of minutes of the half or the game. I think that is part of the reason for Josh's success in these late-half situations.
But I agree with doug's comments earlier: Shaw's fear of making a mistake has infected his QB, and playing afraid to make a mistake never conducive to playing well. I'd like to think that Shaw, as well as Josh, will have a chance to learn from these road losses. But I'm not sure that he will. If we come back and win a few more games on the strength of our D, and make it to a respectable bowl game, Shaw will be able to chalk the losses up to just a young, inexperienced QB learning on the job, and tell himself that things will be better later. I'm sure there is some truth to that. But Shaw and Hamilton need to also look in the mirror and consider their role in both the losses this year.
As an aside: I'm basically not paying much attention any more when Shaw hypes a young player. All through the Spring we heard about the X factor of Kelsey Young, and how Ricky Seale would push for playing time. And all fall we heard about how nobody had ever picked up the offense as quickly as Kodi Whitfield, and how great Remound Wright looked, and how both Peat, Murphy, and Garnett were prodigies. Has any of these guys really played a significant role this season so far? I'm not saying that they necessarily should; minutes should go to the players who earn them. But why hype these guys then basically have them be non-factors once the season begins?Â
Re: What to do about Josh - dabigv13 - 10-13-2012
Like I said from day one when JN was declared the starter because he was less likely to make mistakes (paraphrased, but that's how we all read Shaw's comments), if you play not to win, you won't. It's a dangerous attitude to have from the top.
And I think if our season was imploding, if we were 2-4 and not 4-2, maybe Shaw makes a change. But the fact of the matter is that we have only lost two very close games, both on the road. We were only favored in one of those losses. We can go 8-4, and I think at the beginning of the year, we would think that's not too bad of a season. All of that leads me to believe we will probably go the entire season with Nunes as our QB. He will probably complete about 50% of his passes on the season, with more TD's than INTs. He'll probably have another game or two against poor-middling defenses where he puts up good numbers.
I'm gonna do it again:
     comp att     yds   comp %  ypa    TD  INT    sacks rating
QB 1: 86Â Â Â Â 159Â Â Â Â 1145 Â Â 54.1Â Â Â 7.20 Â 8 Â Â 4Â Â Â Â Â 5 Â Â 126.1
QB2: 112 Â Â 181 Â Â 1348Â Â Â Â 61.9 Â 7.45 Â 9 Â Â 5 Â Â Â 28 Â Â 135.3
Our quarterback is below the Zach Maynard line. And a look at those sack numbers tells you all you need to know about who has much, much better protection.
**edit those numbers are before this past weeks games...they will look worse**
Re: What to do about Josh - scorecard - 10-13-2012
My fear is that Nunes has another year of eligibility left, and we will be stuck with 2 years of this ...
Re: What to do about Josh - doug - 10-13-2012
My fear is that Shaw has a 5-year contract and we have a new AD who isn't as decisive as Bowlsby was, so we will endure many more years of boring, play-not-to-lose football.
Re: What to do about Josh - yvonne - 10-13-2012
My expectation is that we will have two years of this. After all, he will be the only experienced quarterback.
I'm not sure that Shaw understands the implications of the fact that Bob Bowlsby, the guy who hired him, is no longer at Stanford.
Re: What to do about Josh - ChicagoCard - 10-14-2012
I'm gloomy about the state of the offense now, but there should be good potential to improve this year. Next year's team will be deeper, more talented and faster than any Stanford team since, well maybe ever. Also the offensive line is in a trough between the last two years and the next few. (They seem already to be a great at pass-protecting... plenty of guys out there would kill for the pass protection Nunes is given.) If Nunes continues to miss on such plays as the would-be TD to Whitfield, and mis-fire on short-range passes then certainly it's only a matter of time before one of the others moves up. I was tempted to comment that maybe Nunes will forego his final year of elligibility and go pro. I hate to be the kind of follower who says such things but did it strike anybody as sounding a little hollow when Nunes said after Arizona that he had lots of confidence now?
Re: What to do about Josh - scorecard - 10-14-2012
(10-14-2012, 07:04 AM)ChicagoOutsider link Wrote:I'm gloomy about the state of the offense now, but there should be good potential to improve this year. Next year's team will be deeper, more talented and faster than any Stanford team since, well maybe ever. Also the offensive line is in a trough between the last two years and the next few.
Agree. If there is any good to come of this loss, maybe we will stop playing like we have something to lose. Just open up the playbook, start throwing downfield, give some serious playing time to some of the young guys. And just give Nottingham a chance in some game situations since it doesn't matter so much (I still can't see Shaw doing this though). If Nunes goes down due to injury, at least we will have a backup ready.
We do potentially lose a lot next year, but at least the cupboard is full. For sure, Chase Thomas, Taylor, Schwartzstein are gone. Skov/Ertz/Toilolo/Murphy are NFL candidates with a year eligibility remaining? I hope at least one of them stays. The TE's seem like they may be the hardest to replace.
Re: What to do about Josh - Cardinal96 - 10-14-2012
(10-13-2012, 10:51 PM)scorecard link Wrote:My fear is that Nunes has another year of eligibility left, and we will be stuck with 2 years of this ...
Seconded. With decent QB play this year, we could have had a special season.
Re: What to do about Josh - oman - 10-14-2012
Asinine. All of this.