The CardBoard
Why so little respect, and could it come just in time to put Stanford in Miami? - Printable Version

+- The CardBoard (https://thecardboard.org/board)
+-- Forum: C-House! (https://thecardboard.org/board/forum-4.html)
+--- Forum: The CardBoard (https://thecardboard.org/board/forum-5.html)
+--- Thread: Why so little respect, and could it come just in time to put Stanford in Miami? (/thread-4304.html)

Pages: 1 2

Why so little respect, and could it come just in time to put Stanford in Miami? - OutsiderFan - 11-19-2012

Stanford continues to be undervalued by the public and certainly poll voters. 

Last year when 2 loss USC went into the game against 1 loss Oregon, they were ranked #18 in the AP poll.  Oregon was ranked #4.  After that game, Oregon fell five spots to #9, USC moved up EIGHT spots to #10, and made it to #9 after curb stomping UCLA the next week. 

Stanford was #14 and Oregon #1 in the AP poll going into this weekend's game.  After Stanford's win the AP dropped Oregon three spots to #4, and Stanford moved up just THREE spots to #11.  Coach's was worse, where Stanford went in #13 and ended up at #11.  Even the coaches are disrespecting Stanford!  Same with Harris.

LSU has two losses and is #8 in the AP poll, but #7 in the coach's poll and BCS rankings.  Stanford is #8 in the BCS, which suggests Stanford would be the highest ranked 2 loss team if Stanford was even ranked #10 in the polls.  What if Stanford was ranked #7 in the polls?  Stanford would be what, #5 or #6 in the BCS rankings now?  It's not this week that matters.  Stanford has the potential of two more games to impress poll voters and move past LSU as the highest ranked 2 loss team.  There could be a lot of movement that favors Stanford in the BCS rankings after this weekend's games.

What is this happens this weekend:

USC beats Notre Dame soundly by like 3 TDs
Florida State beats Florida
Texas beats Kansas State
Stanford beats UCLA
U.S.C. beats Clemson
Oregon beats Oregon State

Could the BCS rankings before the championship games look like this?

1. Alabama
2. Georgia
3. Stanford
4. Oregon or Notre Dame
5. Notre Dame or Oregon

I'm assuming Stanford has a big enough lead over Oregon and Florida State in the computers, N.D. would fall hard in the polls with a blow-out loss to USC (like Kansas State did against Baylor), and Stanford would gain more poll voter support while N.D. is sinking, with no more games to play, and Stanford one more to solidify voter support.

After the Championship games, it could be:

1. Alabama/Georgia
2. Stanford





















Re: Why so little respect, and could it come just in time to put Stanford in Miami? - Cardinal96 - 11-19-2012

We have no conceivable chance of playing in the BCS title game.  In your scenario, Notre Dame would still be ranked ahead of us in the polls (they have the head-to-head victory, no matter how controversial).  The SEC title game winner (who will have at most two losses) and Notre Dame will be ahead of us in all scenarios.

Re: Why so little respect, and could it come just in time to put Stanford in Miami? - JeffInCorvallis - 11-19-2012

I like the logic but bad loss to Washington is too much to overcome.  Actually, that one is still looking less and less bad each week, but still...

We've been up against ND and Oregon, at their place, and taken both to overtime.  Won one, lost one.  I'd like to put this team up against Alabama.  I think they'd have a good showing.

Re: Why so little respect, and could it come just in time to put Stanford in Miami? - OutsiderFan - 11-19-2012

Why do you say no chance?  What proof do you have that there is no chance?

If Notre Dame falls hard in the polls, why couldn't it happen?  Anyone who pays attention to the BCS knows it comes up with crazy results all the time.  The polls don't account for head-to-head match-ups.  If more people vote Stanford higher on the last polls, Stanford will be ahead of Notre Dame, even with 2 losses, and a head-to-head one.  David Shaw will be able to make a very strong argument for why Stanford is more deserving than Notre Dame, namely the B.S. ref calls when his team got jobbed in South Bend, and the fact Hogan wasn't playing then.

This is the kind of controversy the BCS LOVES and I hate as a college football fan.  Again, it might not make logical sense, but the BCS isn't about logic.  It's about numbers. 

Plus, Stanford will be peaking at the right time.  The New York Giants were 9-7 in the NFL regular season in 2011.  They won the Super Bowl.  Stanford has just as much right to play for the BCS Championship with two losses as the Giants had to be in the NFL playoffs last year.

And I KNOW David Shaw would make that point while campaigning for Stanford to be ranked higher in the BCS rankings over the next two weeks, if there is an opening for Stanford to get to #2.  Absent a playoff, you can't play yourself into a championship, but the BCS can make an effort to reward the teams playing the best at the end of the year, regardless of record, and especially with the circumstances surrounding Stanford's two losses.

But my greater question is why is Stanford getting so little respect in the polls after knocking off Oregon and holding a team nobody thought could be stopped, to 14 points?  How USC was rewarded last year and Stanford wasn't, really bothers me, and I want answers!


Re: Why so little respect, and could it come just in time to put Stanford in Miami? - needle - 11-19-2012

I think that beating UCLA two times in two weeks will be very, very difficult (thanks Larry Scott)...

But the hypothetical I'm most interested in thinking about is how the selection committee in place in 2014 would view this season.

Do you select a one-loss Oregon or two-loss Stanford team for the Final Football Four?

Honestly, I would guess that Stanford would be the right call because of SOS but mainly the emergence of a Hogan. However, without those two things, I would give Oregon the nod based on the Ducks stomping Washington and Arizona (common opponents).

It will be interesting if the selection committee considers things like a new starting QB in evaluating teams.

Re: Why so little respect, and could it come just in time to put Stanford in Miami? - washingtonismoney - 11-19-2012

As with most "respect" issues, it cuts both ways:

1) It's ridiculous our ranking didn't improve more.
2) I see many bowl-projection people assuming a Cardinal loss to UCLA--and putting Stanford in a BCS bowl regardless. This seems highly surprising to me -- I had assumed we would not be a sufficiently attractive quantity. But who knows.

Anyway, whatever. Just win out (which will be quite hard) and the rest will take care of itself.

Re: Why so little respect, and could it come just in time to put Stanford in Miami? - Kathy - 11-19-2012

If we beat UCLA twice in a row, it won't matter how much the polls disrespect us — we'll be headed to the Rose Bowl even if no one else will have us. If we lose either game (or both  :o), we're not going to Miami or any other top-tier BCS bowl.

I'll be rooting for U$C over N.otre Dame this week, simply because I don't want ND to enter the NC game undefeated (and if U$C blows out the domers, that's just icing on the cake). But if Kiffin's team continues to implode, I'll have to rely on the SEC champ to expose the domers as the pretenders I believe they are.


Re: Why so little respect, and could it come just in time to put Stanford in Miami? - OutsiderFan - 11-19-2012

Garvin, I'm fairly certain you didn't think Stanford would beat Oregon, Baylor would crush Kansas State or Texas A&M would beat Alabama.

My only point is there seem to be scenarios under which Stanford can play for the crystal football.  As Lee Corso might say, "Stanford is sneaking around the chicken coop" right now in that nobody is aware they are a threat.

The key is Stanford being so high in the computers and so low in the polls.  Stanford has a lot more room for growth than say Florida State, who is already ahead of Stanford in the polls and can't go much higher because of its low computer ranking.  Stanford is six spots behind FSU in the polls, but three two ahead in the computers.  If the voters get behind Stanford late, and with two high profile games left, it cold happen, Stanford could make a big jump up the BCS rankings in the final two weeks, particularly this week, given all the other match-ups.

Back to USC and Notre Dame.  Ordinarily a team losing its Senior QB and one-time Voldemort candidate would be a reason to count out USC, but USC has elite talent all over the place, and Barkley has been mediocre all year as it was.  Wittek might actually be better than Barkley.  Maybe not Hogan over Nunes better, but better or at least on par.  Notre Dame has brobdingnagian pressure to win, USC has none, and they will make their season by knocking off the #1 team. 

Re: Why so little respect, and could it come just in time to put Stanford in Miami? - tfeldstein - 11-19-2012

If we beat UCLA twice in two weeks and finish 10-2 I will be thrilled to go to the Rose Bowl. I think it is intriguing and fun to speculate on getting to Miami, but that just seems so hard to fathom. Yes, we got screwed at ND and they could be us, but we shit the bed in those two losses and I am OK suffering the consequences. I also think given the speculation that a strong performance in a loss to UCLA puts us in the Fiesta Bowl shows a lot of respect. When you peel back the onion, no loss teams are ranked a head of one loss teams who are ranked ahead of two loss teams. Kinda the way it is.

Re: Why so little respect, and could it come just in time to put Stanford in Miami? - OutsiderFan - 11-19-2012

(11-19-2012, 10:13 AM)bowlorbust link Wrote:If we beat UCLA twice in two weeks and finish 10-2 I will be thrilled to go to the Rose Bowl. I think it is intriguing and fun to speculate on getting to Miami, but that just seems so hard to fathom. Yes, we got screwed at ND and they could be us, but we shit the bed in those two losses and I am OK suffering the consequences. I also think given the speculation that a strong performance in a loss to UCLA puts us in the Fiesta Bowl shows a lot of respect. When you peel back the onion, no loss teams are ranked a head of one loss teams who are ranked ahead of two loss teams. Kinda the way it is.

Just because that is "kinda the way it is" it does not follow it always has to be that way.

I'm not inquiring about what anyone can fathom.  I'm inquiring about what is possible.  Stanford seems to have an opportunity - albeit small - to play for the college football national championship.  I can't believe Stanford fans wouldn't be interested in looking at the possibilities, no matter how remote.  They aren't as remote as it seems, IMO.

I mean it doesn't take Auburn beating Alabama or Georgia Tech beating Georgia for it to happen.  It may not even take Oregon losing to Oregon State or LSU losing to Arkansas.  It may simply take the right combination of very possible outcomes, like Notre Dame losing to USC, Florida losing to Florida State, and Texas beating Kansas State.  And of course, Stanford beating UCLA two times in a row.

Re: Why so little respect, and could it come just in time to put Stanford in Miami? - cardcoug - 11-19-2012

another possibility would have us face ND in Miami.
Alabama < Auburn
GA < Ga Tech
OR < OR State
FL < FSU
K state < texas.

I think we pass LSU (or they could just lose to Arkansas) because we'd be at most 1 spot back in the polls, and have a brobdingnagian computer advantage. I also think voters might like the idea of giving us another shot at ND, given that we already beat them once. It is also good for us that many pundits are projecting us to lose this week. that would make our three final regular season games victories over ranked teams, as the underdog.

And while this is all fun, back to reality: how awesome is it that it looks like Rose Bowl or consolation Fiesta Bowl?

Re: Why so little respect, and could it come just in time to put Stanford in Miami? - fullmetal - 11-19-2012

I can't see Auburn beating Alabama, not after this Oregon loss has injected new life into Bama's next championship hopes.  Maybe if Bama were completely out of the running, Auburn could catch them on the downturn, but here we are again, each Bama game a stepping stone to another crystal trophy.

FSU might beat UF.  Driskel will play against FSU, but he's got a gimpy ankle.  Texas could maybe beat K-State now that Baylor (of all teams) has given the world a blueprint on how to do it with one of the worst defenses in college ball.  Of course that requires Texas to have a competent offense.  I dunno what might happen in the GA and OR civil wars, but here's hoping the higher-ranked BCS team loses :p

LSU almost lost to Ole Miss this weekend--how's that for lack of focus?  Arkansas doesn't have the talent to scare the Tigers though.  Ole Miss just didn't have the defense.

Re: Why so little respect, and could it come just in time to put Stanford in Miami? - Cardinal96 - 11-19-2012

(11-19-2012, 08:35 AM)OutsiderFan link Wrote:Why do you say no chance?  What proof do you have that there is no chance?

If Northern Indiana Parochial College falls hard in the polls, why couldn't it happen?  Anyone who pays attention to the BCS knows it comes up with crazy results all the time.  The polls don't account for head-to-head match-ups.  If more people vote Stanford higher on the last polls, Stanford will be ahead of Northern Indiana Parochial College, even with 2 losses, and a head-to-head one.  David Shaw will be able to make a very strong argument for why Stanford is more deserving than Northern Indiana Parochial College, namely the B.S. ref calls when his team got jobbed in South Bend, and the fact Hogan wasn't playing then.

This is the kind of controversy the BCS LOVES and I hate as a college football fan.  Again, it might not make logical sense, but the BCS isn't about logic.  It's about numbers. 

Plus, Stanford will be peaking at the right time.  The New York Giants were 9-7 in the NFL regular season in 2011.  They won the Super Bowl.  Stanford has just as much right to play for the BCS Championship with two losses as the Giants had to be in the NFL playoffs last year.

And I KNOW David Shaw would make that point while campaigning for Stanford to be ranked higher in the BCS rankings over the next two weeks, if there is an opening for Stanford to get to #2.  Absent a playoff, you can't play yourself into a championship, but the BCS can make an effort to reward the teams playing the best at the end of the year, regardless of record, and especially with the circumstances surrounding Stanford's two losses.

But my greater question is why is Stanford getting so little respect in the polls after knocking off Oregon and holding a team nobody thought could be stopped, to 14 points?  How the team Under Stanford Control was rewarded last year and Stanford wasn't, really bothers me, and I want answers!

Max Wittek (the QB replacing Barkley) could be the next Peyton Manning and lead USC to a 49-0 victory over Notre Dame next week.  Even if that happens, Notre Dame will be in the polls ahead of us because of (a) better record and (b) head-to-head result.  You can't lose any worse than Kansas State did last week and they are ahead of us in the polls.  Two wins over UCLA would not be enough for us to move ahead of Notre Dame in the polls.  And Notre Dame would also be higher in the computers than us; the computers love them.

I also don't think there is any legitimate way we pass the winner of Bama/Georgia in the SEC title game, even if they both lose next week.

I love your enthusiasm and would be thrilled to play for the whole enchilada.  But it just isn't in the cards this year.  I am thrilled because what is in the cards is a Rose Bowl appearance if we win two more games.  That is firmly in our destiny.

Re: Why so little respect, and could it come just in time to put Stanford in Miami? - FarmBoy - 11-19-2012

I have to laugh that as soon as the Rose Bowl becomes a realistic option, we all start focusing on alternative paths to the NCG.

If we win an outright conference championship and play in the Rose Bowl, I will be walking on cloud nine. I won't even be pissed off about the UW loss keeping us out of the NCG discussion.

Re: Why so little respect, and could it come just in time to put Stanford in Miami? - cardcoug - 11-19-2012

Its just because its fun to speculate as you look over the remaining games. There's no point in speculating about the Rose Bowl - we know exactly how that will or wont play out, and there aren't many variables. I already am on cloud 9 after the win saturday, and I'll stay that way if we keep winning.

Re: Why so little respect, and could it come just in time to put Stanford in Miami? - Treebound - 11-19-2012

OF,
I may be confusing you with another, but weren't you the one saying there was no way we get to the Fiesta last year and the Orange the year before??  I love the optimism and I'm voting for more BCS chaos in the next two weeks!  Go Texas, Auburn, SouthCarolina, G-Tech, FSU and even go U$C!      It may not be likely, but look at what happened on this past Saturday! 

This team IS pulling it all together at the right time and I'm looking forward to us beating the Bruins twice in the span of 6 days, not to mention one more tailgate in CTG!  Things would need to fall our way on multiple fronts, but stranger things have happened!

Re: Why so little respect, and could it come just in time to put Stanford in Miami? - Oasis - 11-19-2012

We are where we want to be.  This whole BcS national championship business is a silly, pseudo-scientific attempt to produce a consensus national champion.  It occupies minds like Plaschke's.  Who cares about that?  It's a lot more fun to argue about who is number one.  Without a good national championship controversy all we're left with is fiscal cliff, David Petraeus and (shudder) pro basketball. 

What counts is we can go to the Rose Bowl.  We don't need to care what the Lee Corso world thinks.  To hell with them.  I don't like Lee Corso anyway.  He's an a-hole of the first order.

Let's just beat UCLA twice -- which will be tough but look at how we played Saturday -- and take the real prize, which is being the Pac-8* team in the Rose Bowl.  Of course I'd like to see us in the Rose Bowl AND national champions, but the Rose Bowl is a much bigger deal.



* This is an unreconstructed view of what our conference should be, not the whored-out-for-the-last-dollar monster it has become.

Re: Why so little respect, and could it come just in time to put Stanford in Miami? - OutsiderFan - 11-19-2012

(11-19-2012, 03:59 PM)Treebound link Wrote:OF,
I may be confusing you with another, but weren't you the one saying there was no way we get to the Fiesta last year and the Orange the year before??  I love the optimism and I'm voting for more BCS chaos in the next two weeks!  Go Texas, Auburn, SouthCarolina, G-Tech, FSU and even go U$C!      It may not be likely, but look at what happened on this past Saturday!

I have done nothing but be positive about Stanford's BCS possibilities, and as you can see, that hasn't changed :)



Re: Why so little respect, and could it come just in time to put Stanford in Miami? - OutsiderFan - 11-19-2012

(11-19-2012, 03:59 PM)Treebound link Wrote:OF,
I may be confusing you with another, but weren't you the one saying there was no way we get to the Fiesta last year and the Orange the year before??  I love the optimism and I'm voting for more BCS chaos in the next two weeks!  Go Texas, Auburn, SouthCarolina, G-Tech, FSU and even go U$C!      It may not be likely, but look at what happened on this past Saturday!

I have done nothing but be positive about Stanford's BCS possibilities, and as you can see, that hasn't changed :)



Re: Why so little respect, and could it come just in time to put Stanford in Miami? - Spiny_Norman - 11-19-2012

(11-19-2012, 04:15 PM)Oasis link Wrote:What counts is we can go to the Rose Bowl . . . .

Let's just beat UCLA twice -- which will be tough but look at how we played Saturday -- and take the real prize, which is being the Pac-8* team in the Rose Bowl.  Of course I'd like to see us in the Rose Bowl AND national champions, but the Rose Bowl is a much bigger deal.

Could not agree more.  You play the game to win championships.  As Coach Shaw said after the game, no one is giving Stanford a trophy for beating Oregon.  Still more work to do.

Look at it this way, Stanford has won 1 outright conference championship (and two shared in 1992 and 2001) in the last 40 years!  This team has a chance to make history.  I'm pretty darn excited at the prospect of playing for a championship and a Rose Bowl berth.  Who cares what the nattering nabobs have to say about our prospects.