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WBB: Stanford 51 UCLA 49 Final - 81alum - 03-10-2013

***Halftime Report***

Chiney went out of the first half with 2 fouls, and then Ruef and Amber too.  Even before her fouls, Chiney missed 3/4 free throws and also missed 3/4 baskets.  Bonnie has been doing well with three treys, but otherwise our offense went stagant.  Stanford's bench gave up a 10 point lead.

A troubling first half.

***Final Report***

A thrilling and unlikely win.  Chiney had 3 points and 10 rebounds for the game, making her only basket 45 seconds into the game.  It did not seem to me that she had the energy that we are used to seeing.  Announcers speculated about whether the brutal schedule and time change may have sapped her energy.  I wonder if a virus is sweeping though the ranks.  In any case, this was not the Chiney we are used to seeing, and the team somehow found a way to win in the end.

We trailed for most of the second half, by seven points with 7:20 left.  Amber led our scoring with a career-high 20 points on 9/15 shooting.  As the Bruins doubled and tripled Chiney, there were some lanes open for Amber, and she did a splendid job of exploiting them.

Over the last 7:20 Stanford scoring went like this:  Tinkle made two free throws, Orange made a 2 point jumper, a steal and a layup, two free throws, another  layup, then Ruef made a jumper before fouling out, and finally Amber hit a miraculous 2 point layup amidst the trees.    Walker scored 5 points but it wasn't quite enough--she missed her last attempt which then went out of bounds on Chiney.  The refs determined that there should be .2 seconds left on the clock, which meant by rule that there could be a tip but no catch-and-shoot.  Fortunately nothing came of the inbounds effort and Stanford won.

The defense was furious, and neither side had many assists. 

Ruef was stalwart in defense and scored 8 very necessary points.  My heart sank when she fouled out at the very end.  Bonnie was hot and did splendidly in the first half, but did not play much or shoot much in the second.  I am curious as to why. 

In addition to Chiney's inexplicable game, we nearly lost on account of rebounding.  We were outrebounded 41/33, and UCLA had 19 O-boards to our 9.  Even though Chiney managed 10 rebounds, she was not the vaccum cleaner she has been of late, and no one else had more than 4 rebounds either.  We looked sluggish, and UCLA seemed to get to the rebounds and the loose balls with much more regularity than we did. 

Joslyn continued to look as if she might be under the weather, with little spring in her legs and jumpers that often fell short, going 1/6, but hitting those two critical free throws.

Then how did we win, given this seeming disaster-in-the-making?  We shot 39% compared with their 29%.  Also, while UCLA had a big turnover lead until deep in the second half, we wound up with only a 2 turnover disadvantage in the end.  Somehow we cleaned up our turnovers by the end.

This game was won by Amber and Ruef--especially Amber.  The questions will now begin about Chiney's and Joslyn's health, and whether Toni will make it back for the NCAAs.  In the end, winning a game like this might be a good thing, helping the team to learn about a Chiney-less offense and scrapping, even when exhausted, for a victory.

Champions! - Nan3cy - 03-10-2013

Only saw the last few minutes of the game (had to take hubby to ER - he's going to be fine, but is not very happy at the moment, poor lamb) - but I did see Mikaela and Amber make some truly clutch baskets. Sounds like a really tough game...

Re: WBB: UCLA 27 Stanford 26 at half - chimera - 03-10-2013

Amber won the game.  And I am not a relative, just think she needs more credit in these parts.  Chiney really struggled, the whole team looked tired, and the plan at the end seemed to be to have Orrange drive.  And she pulled it off.  We do need Toni back for a Final Four run though. 

Re: WBB: Stanford 51 UCLA 49 Final - CompSci87 - 03-10-2013

What a relief that the team gets almost 2 weeks to recuperate before starting the NCAA tournament!

Re: WBB: Stanford 51 UCLA 49 Final - meos - 03-10-2013

Statement Game:  "My name is Amber Orrange!!!  Any questions?"

Way to grind your way to a win. Every single effort counted.

Re: WBB: Stanford 51 UCLA 49 Final - Yellowlab - 03-10-2013

What can you say about Amber's performance?  That was OK team here is my back jump on terrific.  MT still gets to claim that she is a 2 guard, but there is no longer any doubt that she is a difference maker.  Chiney scores 3 points, Toni doesn't play, and yet they win?  If they are going to New Orleans, I'm going.

Re: WBB: Stanford 51 UCLA 49 Final - 81alum - 03-10-2013

Questions.  And I do mean honest questions--not necessarily implied criticisms:

1. Was Chiney shut down by UCLA's defense, or was there something wrong with Chiney tonight?  She seemed sluggish the way Joslyn has seemed sluggish this tournament.  A bug?

2. Why was Bonnie not much used in the second half after going 3/5 from three in the first, providing our best offense at that time?  (Actually, she was in for 7 minutes in the second half but did not take a shot.  Did they change their defense on her?)

3. Was the late, physical game last night, combined with the time change, implicated in our lack of energy?  The announcers said that Stanford did not do its normal shoot-around this morning.  Was that a mistake or an excellent decision given what happened?

4. Various announcers keep saying that "Stanford hopes to have Toni back for the NCAAs."  Is that based on anything other than pure speculation?

Re: WBB: Stanford 51 UCLA 49 Final - Griffins78 - 03-10-2013

Amber has been terrific on defense too and tonight she carried us to victory on both sides of the court. We cannot have a team with just one superstar. Amber stepped and tonight became our second superstar.

Re: WBB: Stanford 51 UCLA 49 Final - 81alum - 03-10-2013

(03-10-2013, 08:07 PM)Griffin78 link Wrote:Amber has been terrific on defense too and tonight she carried us to victory on both sides of the court. We cannot have a team with just one superstar. Amber stepped and tonight became our second superstar.
Amber was terrific and clearly pulled this game out of the dumpster for us in an absolutely thrilling finish.  The promise she showed last year is simply being confirmed and growing this year. 

I think she is an absolutely terrific 2 guard and currently our best healthy point guard.  But is she a terrific point guard? She did have 0 assists and 5 turnovers--clearly caused by the way UCLA hounded her, but still there is room for improvement.

Another point in Amber's favor that should be mentioned is that she had 3 critical steals, which were very important for the win. 

Re: WBB: Stanford 51 UCLA 49 Final - CompSci87 - 03-10-2013

(03-10-2013, 08:05 PM)81alum link Wrote:Questions.  And I do mean honest questions--not necessarily implied criticisms:

1. Was Chiney shut down by UCLA's defense, or was there something wrong with Chiney tonight?  She seemed sluggish the way Joslyn has seemed sluggish this tournament.  A bug?

UCLA's defense was good, but Chiney looked exhausted. Maybe Tara will say in the postgame whether Chiney caught the bug that Jos had. If so, I hope it runs its course quickly and she's feeling 100% when the NCAAs start.

Quote:2. Why was Bonnie not much used in the second half after going 3/5 from three in the first, providing our best offense at that time?  (Actually, she was in for 7 minutes in the second half but did not take a shot.  Did they change their defense on her?)

They seemed to be up in her face in the second half, making her put the ball on the floor, where she's not too secure.

Quote:3. Was the late, physical game last night, combined with the time change, implicated in our lack of energy? The announcers said that Stanford did not do its normal shoot-around this morning.  Was that a mistake or an excellent decision given what happened?

Both matters of opinion. I'm sure the previous two games and the short turnaround to this one took their toll. It looked to me like the team could have used still more sleep. It's not like they were drowsy at the start because they slept too long and perked up later.

Quote:4. Various announcers keep saying that "Stanford hopes to have Toni back for the NCAAs."  Is that based on anything other than pure speculation?

It's based on Tara having said so. In my completely uninformed opinion, I think that's a faint hope at best.


Re: WBB: Stanford 51 UCLA 49 Final - Griffins78 - 03-10-2013

(03-10-2013, 08:33 PM)CompSci87 link Wrote:[quote author=81alum link=topic=7652.msg59927#msg59927 date=1362971141]1. Was Chiney shut down by UCLA's defense, or was there something wrong with Chiney tonight?  She seemed sluggish the way Joslyn has seemed sluggish this tournament.  A bug?
UCLA's defense was good, but Chiney looked exhausted. Maybe Tara will say in the postgame whether Chiney caught the bug that Jos had. If so, I hope it runs its course quickly and she's feeling 100% when the NCAAs start.[/quote]I agree. 3 physically tough games in 3 nights (the last one ending at essentially 11:30pm) as opponents tried to physically harass, exhaust, and take Chiney out of her game. As long as they had bodies and fouls to give the opponents shoved, clawed, grabbed, bumped, etc. Her shots were often short (tired legs). She wasn't the only one tired - both teams seemed gassed at times. That's what made Amber's play even more remarkable. She kept motoring. UCLA, like Colorado, extended the defense and tried to harass the ball from coming into Chiney, but they all sagged and collapsed onto Chiney as soon as she got the ball. At times, she seemed to be intent on getting to the basket to get her offensive game going instead of looking to pass the ball back out.
(03-10-2013, 08:33 PM)CompSci87 link Wrote:[quote author=81alum link=topic=7652.msg59927#msg59927 date=1362971141]2. Why was Bonnie not much used in the second half after going 3/5 from three in the first, providing our best offense at that time?  (Actually, she was in for 7 minutes in the second half but did not take a shot.  Did they change their defense on her?)
They seemed to be up in her face in the second half, making her put the ball on the floor, where she's not too secure.[/quote]UCLA started the 2nd half in a 1-2-2 zone which was effective against Chiney. Tara countered with Bonnie and UCLA immediately came out of the zone and went to man. They extended their defense and got in the face of anyone that touched the ball, well beyond the 3 point arc and kept a close eye on Bonnie. But Bonnie did get a shot off and her first 3 point shot of the second half was way short and hit the front of the rim. Then she was out the majority of the 2nd half. Made me recall that after her last 3 pointer in the 1st half she had a pained look on her face that made me think she was hit in the face or head after the shot. Maybe Tara was concerned. So Tara got UCLA out of the zone that was so effective against Cal by using her Bonnie weapon but when UCLA changed - it made Bonnie less of a threat.

Re: WBB: Stanford 51 UCLA 49 Final - M T - 03-11-2013

Whew!  That was close and not particularly fun.  I can hope that it gives Stanford something positive, but it is hard for me to see what, besides Amber's shooting.  I guess Tess got some much needed playing time.


As for Chiney's play, I thought she was a touch less quick than she usually is.  She didn't snag balls out of the air and play like everyone else is moving at half speed, as she usually does.  I don't know what might be going around the team, but that's how I feel after taking cold medicine.  Thinking about that, that would fit the missed shots, missed rebounds, and the missed FTs (1/4).  An illness would also explain the extended time on the bench rather than asking her to play with fouls.  (Did anyone else notice that Tess was at the official's table BEFORE Chiney got her 2nd foul, but she could have been going in for Jos?)

Amber did score very well.  (Note that I've said she should shoot more.  We're fortunate she did and was good at it.)  Her steals counterbalance 3 of her 5 TO, so give her a net 2 TO to go with 0 assists.  Boil that down to about 16 points on the positive side of the ledger, for an overall great game, at least for her.  One can say the UCLA defense gets the credit for no assists, but when was the last time our starting point guard got 0 assists?   

I hope that Tara can identify what went wrong, both with Chiney's performance (which includes her not getting the ball) and the team's performance, and work around it before someone else can exploit it.

I thought against WSU, at the start of the 2nd half, Stanford responded to a lock-down on Chiney by bringing her out, closer to the 3pt line, and letting the rest of the team score by getting to the basket.  I didn't see us try that on Sunday.


Chiney was 1 for 9.  I think it is telling that the team had no missed layups. 

Tara wanted more competitive teams in the PAC-12.  I think she almost got too much of it.

(03-10-2013, 09:22 PM)Griffin78 link Wrote:Made me recall that after [Bonnie's] last 3 pointer in the 1st half she had a pained look on her face that made me think she was hit in the face or head after the shot.
I think you are referring to her first 3 pointer (1st half 12:34).  The UCLA defender came out and hit her in the nose with her elbow after the shot was in the air.  It looked to me like the ref was looking right at it.  Bonnie's head went back and she grabbed her nose like someone expecting blood to fill her hand.  The camera had a close-up of her as she was going back on defense and she was almost welling up with tears.  She reached up and touched her nose like she was wondering if it was broken.  Just a UCLA calling card.  But it wasn't something that would affect any concussion.

Re: WBB: Stanford 51 UCLA 49 Final - 81alum - 03-11-2013

Elliot Almond says Tinkle had strep throat.  Hard to believe they would even let her be around the team if that were actually true.  But I do not know how quickly it stops being contagious after antibiotics are started.  Still, a regimen of antibiotics could very well sap energy, much as we saw with Jos.

On the other hand, probably about 1/3 of my students (and I) have been down over the last few weeks with a horrible virus, that while technically not the flu and certainly not strep, gives a very nasty sore throat lasting about 10 days.  I wished it had been strep because that is treatable.  The first couple of days before the infection "blossoms" are typified by very low energy.  It is so prevalent in the schools and colleges around here at the moment that I would not be at all surprised if that is what got Jos and perhaps other team members. 

The other insight coming out of the flurry of this morning's press is that the team had an electrical outage at their hotel, and some of them walked down 35 flights of stairs.

I don't know if there was a press conference that was recorded, but so far I have seen no particular explanation for Chiney.  Not to go too far toward the conspiracy theory end of the spectrum, but if Chiney were actually sick, I wonder whether they would say.  It might sound like sour grapes, and it also might be that Tara would prefer future teams to think UCLA figured out a winning strategy. 

Re: WBB: Stanford 51 UCLA 49 Final - washingtonismoney - 03-11-2013

(03-11-2013, 03:13 AM)MT link Wrote:Whew!  That was close and not particularly fun.  I can hope that it gives Stanford something positive, but it is hard for me to see what, besides Amber's shooting. 

Winning? For the seventh consecutive time? Against a top twenty opponent?


Re: WBB: Stanford 51 UCLA 49 Final - 81alum - 03-11-2013

The press conference can be found here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dvoZ5p9MYzQ

An interesting Tara observation:  having Chiney out of the game in the first half was less of a problem than having Amber out of the game.  Tara thought that we struggled to run the offense without Amber.  I guess that is a comment on how far along Tara thinks Jasmine is.  Toni could run the offense when required, of course, but I get the impression that playing point guard in Tara's system just requires a couple of years of experience.  Jeanette took some time to learn, too, as I recall.

Amber is a young woman of very few words, as we know, but both she and Chiney are eloquent in their own ways.  Chiney was more subdued than I have seen her.

A rather somber press conference considering the almost miraculous accomplishment this year of taking a team without Nneka or Toni to yet another championship.  Something tells me that this is actually a good result psychologically for us--it will make the team hungrier and wary about relying overly on Chiney in the NCAAs.  Hopefully it will give Amber and Ruef and Bonnie even more confidence going forward.

Re: WBB: Stanford 51 UCLA 49 Final - meos - 03-11-2013

On Chiney's performance:
It looked like a combination of effects; fatigue, a touch of illness, u-c-l-a's defense, and Chiney's one dimensional drop step move. The first 3 items, Chiney does not have much control over. She was showing some illness symptoms in the Colorado game and seemed out of breath in the first few minutes of the u-c-l-a game.
Her back to the basket game needs work. U-C-L-A was anticipating Chiney's long step, power drop step -- waiting where she would be after the step; resulting in block shots and travels.
Chiney needs counter-moves. Short step instead of long; the ball released more directly overhead in a short flip to the basket, not the wide power-step off the backboard. The power step is good one-on-one, but some teams with heavy inside players are anticipating and clogging-up that move.
I hope the coaches and Chiney see that and spend the next two weeks working on short step fast agile quick pivot moves leading to short flip shot directly overhead into the basket (no fade, no backboard). Forward pivot, half and 3/4 body turns flowing directly into a shot. This should also draw lots of fouls as players claw for the ball so often against Chiney. Then more drills on the same with reverse pivot, flowing into a direct shot. These things would help Chiney accentuate the advantages she has even when tired -- her height, length and quickness. The power move on the other hand takes more energy, can be anticipated (has "tells"), and can be smothered with a double team (and a 3rd coming in from behind). More than one team has done this now, so it can't be a surprise anymore. And as much as Chiney should shoot the ball most of the time, she also has the option to pass the ball out of a triple-team occasionally to a shooter spotting up. I guess I should also mention that being able to do all of these things with the left hand too would make Chiney much more potent offensively -- but that is more of an off-season project.


Re: WBB: Stanford 51 UCLA 49 Final - Leftcoast - 03-11-2013

We're pretty tough on the team this year. 

On the plus side last night -

1)  Stanford got the kind of tough challenge coaches LOVE before the NCAA tournament
2)  They beat a top 20 team that knows them well and had a good defensive game plan
3)  The team has almost two weeks to prep and get healthy before their first round game
4)  Stanford can fall no lower than a #2 NCAA seed and has a good shot at a #1
5)  Chiney NEVER has two bad games in a row
6)  Amber Orrange emerged as a tournament ready guard who can carry a team in the absence of their best player

Stanford is loaded for another regional final and has a decent shot at a Final Four.  If they make it that far then anything else is icing for the 2012/2013 cake. 

Sure they have weaknesses but take a good look at the other likely #1 seeds.  Does anyone see a Maya Moore led UConn or a Candace Parker led Tennessee out there?  In my opinion it looks like EVERYONE has a chink in their armor.  Baylor is probably the clubhouse favorite and Stanford beat them already this year.

Re: WBB: Stanford 51 UCLA 49 Final - Yellowlab - 03-11-2013

(03-11-2013, 05:07 AM)garvin link Wrote:I can only guess whether Chiney was tired, but she certainly wasn't herself -- she missed several shots that, even under pressure, she ordinarily makes; she wasn't as effective an offensive rebounder as usual; she didn't have her customary cat-quickness to loose balls under the basket.

Also -- not just with respect to Chiney -- we haven't given UCLA's defense enough credit in this thread. It was absolutely tenacious.

I thought Brewer in particular was a defensive force.

Re: WBB: Stanford 51 UCLA 49 Final - Yellowlab - 03-11-2013

Duke edged ahead of Kal in today's AP poll.  I have no idea whether that will change where they end up in the tournament.

Re: WBB: Stanford 51 UCLA 49 Final - treefan - 03-11-2013

(03-11-2013, 09:35 AM)Leftcoast link Wrote:We're pretty tough on the team this year. 

On the plus side last night -

1)  Stanford got the kind of tough challenge coaches LOVE before the NCAA tournament
2)  They beat a top 20 team that knows them well and had a good defensive game plan
3)  The team has almost two weeks to prep and get healthy before their first round game
4)  Stanford can fall no lower than a #2 NCAA seed and has a good shot at a #1
5)  Chiney NEVER has two bad games in a row
6)  Amber Orrange emerged as a tournament ready guard who can carry a team in the absence of their best player

Stanford is loaded for another regional final and has a decent shot at a Final Four.  If they make it that far then anything else is icing for the 2012/2013 cake. 

Sure they have weaknesses but take a good look at the other likely #1 seeds.  Does anyone see a Maya Moore led UConn or a Candace Parker led Tennessee out there?  In my opinion it looks like EVERYONE has a chink in their armor.  Baylor is probably the clubhouse favorite and Stanford beat them already this year.


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