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Why isn't the winner of the North Division the winner of the North Division? - Printable Version

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Why isn't the winner of the North Division the winner of the North Division? - martyup - 11-22-2013

If we beat the weenies, we will have gone undefeated in the North Division of the Pac-12.  I don't know why the rules don't make us the winner of the North Division over a team that we beat from the North Division.

Re: Why isn't the winner of the North Division the winner of the North Division? - Canalejas - 11-22-2013

Because we count all conference games in the divisional race, even interdivisional ones.  To do otherwise would essentially turn our games against the Pac-12 South teams into out-of-conference games. 

If we only counted games against our intradivisional opponents we could, in theory, get to the Pac-12 championship game with a 4-8 record, even if Oregon only has a single loss and finishes with an identical 4-1 division record. 

But it does seem a little crazy that we have a good chance of sweeping the division while claiming wins over the South division's top 2 teams and ending up with no P-12CG berth to show for it.

Re: Why isn't the winner of the North Division the winner of the North Division? - stupac2 - 11-22-2013

(11-22-2013, 05:43 PM)Robber Baron 83 link Wrote:But it does seem a little crazy that we have a good chance of sweeping the division while claiming wins over the South division's top 2 teams and ending up with no P-12CG berth to show for it.

That's what playing down to your opponents will get you. Hopefully next year we'll have a 35-ppg offense to go with our 20-ppg defense, then things will be fun.

Re: Why isn't the winner of the North Division the winner of the North Division? - Farm93 - 11-22-2013

Last year Stanford has one OOC loss, one bad divisional loss, and 2 or 3 rather lucky wins.  This year's team has played more consistently throughout the year, but now has this little road game issue.  In both seasons 14-0 just looks like it was really close, but in truth 10-4 was a real possibility last year and Stanford could easily be 7-3 or 6-4 today.  (UW & OSU)  Still most programs would be very happy to have Stanford's set of problems.

Most Pac-10/12 programs had very little luck with the BCS at-large process, but Stanford lucked out with 2 automatic at-large selections.  Again, most programs would be happy to have Stanford's problems.

Stanford still has a shot at the Pac-12 CG and a shot at a BCS at-large selection.  Most programs would love to have either option as a possibility heading into late November.

Re: Why isn't the winner of the North Division the winner of the North Division? - DC - 11-22-2013

(11-22-2013, 05:49 PM)stupac2 link Wrote:[quote author=Robber Baron 83 link=topic=8924.msg75474#msg75474 date=1385167439]But it does seem a little crazy that we have a good chance of sweeping the division while claiming wins over the South division's top 2 teams and ending up with no P-12CG berth to show for it.

That's what playing down to your opponents will get you. Hopefully next year we'll have a 35-ppg offense to go with our 20-ppg defense, then things will be fun.
[/quote]

Sorry to say that for that to happen, we'll need a new QB and new playcallers. A TE that can catch passes would help as well.

Re: Why isn't the winner of the North Division the winner of the North Division? - Gauss - 11-23-2013

(11-22-2013, 06:04 PM)Farm93 link Wrote:Last year Stanford has one OOC loss, one bad divisional loss, and 2 or 3 rather lucky wins.  This year's team has played more consistently throughout the year, but now has this little road game issue.  In both seasons 14-0 just looks like it was really close, but in truth 10-4 was a real possibility last year and Stanford could easily be 7-3 or 6-4 today.  (UW & OSU)  Still most programs would be very happy to have Stanford's set of problems.

Most Pac-10/12 programs had very little luck with the BCS at-large process, but Stanford lucked out with 2 automatic at-large selections.  Again, most programs would be happy to have Stanford's problems.

Stanford still has a shot at the Pac-12 CG and a shot at a BCS at-large selection.  Most programs would love to have either option as a possibility heading into late November.

Excellent post.

Re: Why isn't the winner of the North Division the winner of the North Division? - fullmetal - 11-23-2013

(11-22-2013, 09:29 PM)DC link Wrote:[quote author=stupac2 link=topic=8924.msg75475#msg75475 date=1385167758]
[quote author=Robber Baron 83 link=topic=8924.msg75474#msg75474 date=1385167439]But it does seem a little crazy that we have a good chance of sweeping the division while claiming wins over the South division's top 2 teams and ending up with no P-12CG berth to show for it.

That's what playing down to your opponents will get you. Hopefully next year we'll have a 35-ppg offense to go with our 20-ppg defense, then things will be fun.
[/quote]

Sorry to say that for that to happen, we'll need a new QB and new playcallers. A TE that can catch passes would help as well.
[/quote]

I've been thinking--we don't need a Move TE to really make things work.  A big TE that can shield the ball from a LB would work...and good-enough hands would be great too if Hogan throws the ball to the TE on short-to-intermediate routes.  Does Shaw really think that Hopkins/Dudchock/Hewitt/Kaumatule were unsuitable to do even that?

Re: Why isn't the winner of the North Division the winner of the North Division? - JohnR34231 - 11-23-2013

(11-22-2013, 05:43 PM)Robber Baron 83 link Wrote:Because we count all conference games in the divisional race, even interdivisional ones.  To do otherwise would essentially turn our games against the Pac-12 South teams into out-of-conference games. 

If we only counted games against our intradivisional opponents we could, in theory, get to the Pac-12 championship game with a 4-8 record, even if Oregon only has a single loss and finishes with an identical 4-1 division record. 

But it does seem a little crazy that we have a good chance of sweeping the division while claiming wins over the South division's top 2 teams and ending up with no P-12CG berth to show for it.

I think the reason is that if you only count the division games toward the championship, you diminish the importance of the other conference games, and the conference gurus did not want to do that.
The Ducks luck out a little this year because they don't have to play U$C, who just may currently be the best team in the South.

Re: Why isn't the winner of the North Division the winner of the North Division? - ChicagoCard - 11-23-2013

Is there any realistic chance that the conference moves Stanford and C.al to the south division, and Utah and Colorado to the north?

Re: Why isn't the winner of the North Division the winner of the North Division? - JohnR34231 - 11-23-2013

(11-23-2013, 08:10 AM)ChicagoVisitor link Wrote:Is there any realistic chance that the conference moves Stanford and kal to the south division, and Utah and Colorado to the north?

No because the northern schools want to come down to California often, because it is where they do much of their recruiting.

Re: Why isn't the winner of the North Division the winner of the North Division? - stupac2 - 11-23-2013

(11-23-2013, 06:55 AM)JPRI link Wrote:The Ducks luck out a little this year because they don't have to play U$C, who just may currently be the best team in the South.

Or ASU. They missed two of the top 3 teams and we missed two of the bottom 3. And that's going to happen a lot to us, since USC and UCLA don't figure to both be bad at the same time.

Re: Why isn't the winner of the North Division the winner of the North Division? - Canalejas - 11-23-2013

(11-23-2013, 08:25 AM)JPRI link Wrote:[quote author=ChicagoVisitor link=topic=8924.msg75492#msg75492 date=1385219414]
Is there any realistic chance that the conference moves Stanford and kal to the south division, and Utah and Colorado to the north?

No because the northern schools want to come down to California often, because it is where they do much of their recruiting.
[/quote]

I find that a little funny because the Pacific Northwest schools have given up access to LA in order to retain yearly access to the Bay Area.  I think they would be better off playing each CA school 2 out of every 3 years, since SoCal is more important for recruiting.

Re: Why isn't the winner of the North Division the winner of the North Division? - CowboyIndian - 11-23-2013

(11-23-2013, 08:10 AM)ChicagoVisitor link Wrote:Is there any realistic chance that the conference moves Stanford and kal to the south division, and Utah and Colorado to the north?

I think what IS possible is adding 4 more teams to the conference and reverting to the old Pac-8 in the West and the balance in an Eastern or Mountain division.

Re: Why isn't the winner of the North Division the winner of the North Division? - DC - 11-23-2013

(11-23-2013, 10:29 AM)CowboyIndian link Wrote:[quote author=ChicagoVisitor link=topic=8924.msg75492#msg75492 date=1385219414]
Is there any realistic chance that the conference moves Stanford and kal to the south division, and Utah and Colorado to the north?

I think what IS possible is adding 4 more teams to the conference and reverting to the old Pac-8 in the West and the balance in an Eastern or Mountain division.
[/quote]I agree that it very well could happen because it sounds so logical geographically. However, that would be pretty unbalanced, wouldn't it?  Oregon, Stanford, UCLA and USC in one division, and the mostly-ordinary others in another?  Long-term after sanctions are lifted, USC likely revives and could be the team to beat with all the 5-star recruits they get. It will be really hard to make it out of the old Pac-8 unscathed.

Re: Why isn't the winner of the North Division the winner of the North Division? - dabigv13 - 11-23-2013

This is what we were all thinking back in the early days of the Pac-12, when the thought was that Texas might bolt the Big 12 to make a Pac-16.

It was the only expansion plan that I thought would make up for giving up the round robin schedule and having to add a silly championship game. Of course there is no going back now.

Re: Why isn't the winner of the North Division the winner of the North Division? - martyup - 11-23-2013

Well, I guess I got my wish.  The team with the best record in the North Division against opponents in the North Division is the Champion of the North Division.  And that team is the Leland Stanford Junior University Cardinal.

Re: Why isn't the winner of the North Division the winner of the North Division? - dabigv13 - 11-23-2013

I'm not a fan of the concept of the North Division, but I am a fan of Shayne Skov's King Of The North ASOIAF reference.

Re: Why isn't the winner of the North Division the winner of the North Division? - washingtonismoney - 11-23-2013

(11-23-2013, 09:38 PM)dabigv link Wrote:I'm not a fan of the concept of the North Division, but I am a fan of Shayne Skov's King Of The North ASOIAF reference.

Hopefully Stanford's less Robb Stark and more Brandon the Builder.