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New OC suggestions or wishes? - OutsiderFan - 11-04-2014

Now that it's a lot more than just me who is convinced Stanford football needs a new OC, who does everyone want or suggest as a replacement for Bloomgren?  And in this case, do you like the idea of him remaining OL coach?  Feel free to also indicate the kind of system you'd like to see run.

Usually with these things, you go look up the top performing units and say you want this coach or that coach who's units are on top of the NCAA rankings.  But for Stanford, it's a little more complicated given Shaw wants to run a pro style, and most offfenses on top of the stats leader boards are running spread and/or no huddle styles.  Given Shaw's NFL connections, a current NFL coach might be a very good choice, as long as his name isn't Greg Roman  :P

I'm going to start doing my own looking around, before suggesting any names, but I do know this.  I want a far less complicated offense with far less terminology, and much less predictability based on personnel and formation use, and Shaw to let the OC do his job withput interference, but you guys who read my posts probably know that! Oh, and I'm fine with giving Bloomgren a year to only focus on turning the OL into the intellectual and physical bullies we expect them to be on the football field, under any OC.





Re: New OC suggestions or wishes? - 81alum - 11-04-2014

I would like to see an offensive coordinator who weighs in at about 225, has four years of eligibility, runs a 4.3 or 4.4 40, has vision and patience, and always gets a yard or two more than you would expect just by falling forward.  It would be fine with me if he also coached the offensive line.

Re: New OC suggestions or wishes? - BobK - 11-04-2014

Outsider, lets start with who gets fired so we have this opening.  Got to do the whole exercise. 

Re: New OC suggestions or wishes? - OutsiderFan - 11-04-2014

This isn't a who has an opening or who's available question.  It's simply an attempt to understand whom the Stanford football fan base might like to see as the OC and potentially what style of offense it wants to see run.  Lots of people have an opportunity to contribute ideas and bring names to the surface than many of us haven't heard of before.



Re: New OC suggestions or wishes? - washingtonismoney - 11-04-2014

If keeping in the general pro-style approach is the assumption -- and knowing Shaw's love of rehabilitating good coaches in bad coaching situations (see: Alamar, Akina) -- I would guess Doug Nussmeier if Shaw makes a switch.

But who knows. The offense has dabbled enough with no-huddle and quarterback run plays that I doubt Shaw completely dismisses the value of spread ideology.

Re: New OC suggestions or wishes? - stupac2 - 11-04-2014

(11-04-2014, 09:08 AM)OutsiderFan link Wrote:This isn't a who has an opening or who's available question.  It's simply an attempt to understand whom the Stanford football fan base might like to see as the OC and potentially what style of offense it wants to see run.  Lots of people have an opportunity to contribute ideas and bring names to the surface than many of us haven't heard of before.

Well, it actually is, since apparently the NCAA mandates how many positional coaches/coordinators you can have, and we're at the max. If you want to bring someone in, then someone else needs to leave. So who would that be?

Entirely possible a positional coach gets a better offer somewhere (doubt Bloomgren does and I don't think Anderson is going anywhere yet), but if not you have to fire someone. Who would that be?


Also, I'm really not sure why you're so confident that the OC is entirely to blame for this, and that bringing someone else in would help tremendously. Sometimes in football, especially in college football, teams just have bad years even if they're fairly talented and well coached. Besides, I think that the actual season we've gotten so far is not that far off of rational expectations entering the season. It sucks to not outperform expectations yet again, but sooner or later that was bound to happen just by the laws of probability.

Re: New OC suggestions or wishes? - washingtonismoney - 11-04-2014

One more add to stupac: we've also seen offenses change their approach dramatically without big staff shakeups. I believe Sarkisian went from a pure pro-style approach to the sort of hybrid pro/spread hurry-up he uses today without a major change in staff. That seems to have worked reasonably well.

So it's tough to come up with a generalizable suggestion that applies to college football. Sometimes changes work. Sometimes they don't. Sometimes not changing works too.

Re: New OC suggestions or wishes? - Renaissance Man - 11-04-2014

(11-04-2014, 05:42 AM)81alum link Wrote:I would like to see an offensive coordinator who weighs in at about 225, has four years of eligibility, runs a 4.3 or 4.4 40, has vision and patience, and always gets a yard or two more than you would expect just by falling forward.  It would be fine with me if he also coached the offensive line.

I know that it is a popular refrain that we do not have the same type of players we have had the past few years--but does anybody see a team lacking in talent? I see a stable of very talented running backs trying to work in a system that is not designed for their skill-set. 

Re: New OC suggestions or wishes? - washingtonismoney - 11-04-2014

(11-04-2014, 09:58 AM)Renaissance Man link Wrote:I know that it is a popular refrain that we do not have the same type of players we have had the past few years--but does anybody see a team lacking in talent? I see a stable of very talented running backs trying to work in a system that is not designed for their skill-set.

Not sure where you detect such talent from the running backs. Wright and Young have little vision. Sanders has no speed.

I suppose we could sit down and count this, but I don't really see endless Power O plays anymore, for the good reason that neither the line nor the backs are prepared to do it. There's a lot more zone, zone stretch, etc.

Wright/Young/Sanders just aren't much good at the moment. If they were good, they probably would've gotten more time last year as well.

McCaffrey? Maybe a different matter.

Re: New OC suggestions or wishes? - StanFan88 - 11-04-2014

(11-04-2014, 05:20 AM)OutsiderFan link Wrote:Now that it's a lot more than just me who is convinced Stanford football needs a new OC, who does everyone want or suggest as a replacement for Bloomgren?  And in this case, do you like the idea of him remaining OL coach? 

I'm not going to purport to have any knowledge of who should be OC next season other than two things:
- It cannot be Mike Bloomgren.  Bloomgren could stay as OL coach but I doubt he would.
- It needs to be someone from outside the program

I also think we need a new QB coach.  Pritchard's job one was to make Hogan a more fundamentally sound, better QB.  Anybody think he's accomplished that?  Job two would be to develop a competent backup.  Anybody think he's done that?

Re: New OC suggestions or wishes? - BobK - 11-04-2014

While Hogan has not improved Crower has.  Of course in the scheme of things Hogan far more important.  We have no Clue on Burns and Chryst. 

But back to the OC bring Sanford back.  But again one comes and one goes.  This is not an new NCAA it's for all sports in place a long time. 

Re: New OC suggestions or wishes? - theashwineffect - 11-04-2014

With the current roster composition, I'd like someone from Mike McCoy / Frank Reich's staff from the San Diego Chargers. It's an offense that takes advantage of WR / TE size advantages and the use of smaller, quicker backs. For all of its passing, San Diego had a top-5 rushing offense last season, spread between two backs not known for hitting the hole. Philip Rivers took less than 3 seconds to release the ball, on average, and was one of the top passers in the league.

However, this would offense would be contingent on someone with a significantly different skill set than Hogan's (ie. quick[er] release, ability to quickly run through progressions).

Both Chryst and Burns have pretty, quick releases. I don't have answers on the progression part.

NOTE: the more that I think of it, the less I'm down on Burns for the fumbled snaps issue. It seems that the problem is more centralized to Shuler, given all of the problems that Hogan has had in game situations.

Re: New OC suggestions or wishes? - OutsiderFan - 11-04-2014

It does seem, when looking at the coaching staff composition and where the performance is lacking, Bloomgren should go and Pritchard has too much responsibility he isn't handling well, coaching QBs and WRs.  Stanford's OL, QBs, and RBs have not improved in any appreciable way from 2013 to 2014, or even through 3/4 of the 2014 season.

My suggested structure:

Andrew Luck Director of Offense/QB coach - a proven OC, at least at the D1 level, in the mold of Cam Cameron or Norv Turner, known for developing QBs but also a strong commitment to the running game.

WR coach  - Prefer someone who played WR (James Lofton perhaps?), but OK with keeping Pritchard if he gives up QB coaching duties to the more proven OC/QB coach.

Morgan Turner seems to have done well with the TEs, so give him OL coaching duties as well.

I'm not totally up on who counts and doesn't against the coach limit, but it seems Bloomgren would have to go in order to get a new OC and keep Turner. Otherwise, to keep Bloomgren, Turner would need to go, and Bloomgren would get the OL and TEs.

I'm not sure of exactly who counts against the coach limit, but this seems like the pieces that would have to be changed and moved to accommodate new blood in the coaching staff at the OC position.

Re: New OC suggestions or wishes? - Bruce Wang - 11-04-2014

Norm Chow.

Chow time - Redrum - 11-04-2014

I'll give Publius the benefit of the doubt and chuckle along at his suggestion.  But-- just in case he was serious-- I'll note that Chow will be most likely be available after his long-awaited HC gig comes to a sad, sad end in Hawaii.

Re: New OC suggestions or wishes? - BostonCard - 11-04-2014

(11-04-2014, 10:46 AM)OutsiderFan link Wrote:It does seem, when looking at the coaching staff composition and where the performance is lacking, Bloomgren should go and Pritchard has too much responsibility he isn't handling well, coaching QBs and WRs.  Stanford's OL, QBs, and RBs have not improved in any appreciable way from 2013 to 2014, or even through 3/4 of the 2014 season.

My suggested structure:

Andrew Luck Director of Offense/QB coach - a proven OC, at least at the D1 level, in the mold of Cam Cameron or Norv Turner, known for developing QBs but also a strong commitment to the running game.

WR coach  - Prefer someone who played WR (James Lofton perhaps?), but OK with keeping Pritchard if he gives up QB coaching duties to the more proven OC/QB coach.

Morgan Turner seems to have done well with the TEs, so give him OL coaching duties as well.

I'm not totally up on who counts and doesn't against the coach limit, but it seems Bloomgren would have to go in order to get a new OC and keep Turner. Otherwise, to keep Bloomgren, Turner would need to go, and Bloomgren would get the OL and TEs.

I'm not sure of exactly who counts against the coach limit, but this seems like the pieces that would have to be changed and moved to accommodate new blood in the coaching staff at the OC position.

The following coaches "count":
David Shaw (Bradford M. Freeman Director of Football)
Mike Bloomgren (ALDoO, OL)
Tavita Pritchard (QB, WR)
Lance Taylor (RB)
Morgan Turner (TE)
Lance Anderson (WSDoD, OLB)
Duane Akina (DB)
Peter Hansen (ILB)
Randy Hart (DL)
Pete Alamar (ST Coord) [Maybe he can become the Ty Montgomery Director of Special Teams]

BC

Re: New OC suggestions or wishes? - slide - 11-04-2014

(11-04-2014, 10:46 AM)OutsiderFan link Wrote:It does seem, when looking at the coaching staff composition and where the performance is lacking, Bloomgren should go and Pritchard has too much responsibility he isn't handling well, coaching QBs and WRs.  Stanford's OL, QBs, and RBs have not improved in any appreciable way from 2013 to 2014, or even through 3/4 of the 2014 season.

My suggested structure:

Andrew Luck Director of Offense/QB coach - a proven OC, at least at the D1 level, in the mold of Cam Cameron or Norv Turner, known for developing QBs but also a strong commitment to the running game.

WR coach  - Prefer someone who played WR (James Lofton perhaps?), but OK with keeping Pritchard if he gives up QB coaching duties to the more proven OC/QB coach.

Morgan Turner seems to have done well with the TEs, so give him OL coaching duties as well.

I'm not totally up on who counts and doesn't against the coach limit, but it seems Bloomgren would have to go in order to get a new OC and keep Turner. Otherwise, to keep Bloomgren, Turner would need to go, and Bloomgren would get the OL and TEs.

I'm not sure of exactly who counts against the coach limit, but this seems like the pieces that would have to be changed and moved to accommodate new blood in the coaching staff at the OC position.

don't forget recruiting.  it seems to get less and less emphasis as time goes by.

Re: New OC suggestions or wishes? - Red State - 11-04-2014

(11-04-2014, 05:42 AM)81alum link Wrote:I would like to see an offensive coordinator who weighs in at about 225, has four years of eligibility, runs a 4.3 or 4.4 40, has vision and patience, and always gets a yard or two more than you would expect just by falling forward.  It would be fine with me if he also coached the offensive line.

+1 It's just uncanny how much better the play-calling becomes when you have stud players...

Re: New OC suggestions or wishes? - BostonCard - 11-04-2014

(11-04-2014, 09:51 AM)washingtonismoney link Wrote:One more add to stupac: we've also seen offenses change their approach dramatically without big staff shakeups. I believe Sarkisian went from a pure pro-style approach to the sort of hybrid pro/spread hurry-up he uses today without a major change in staff. That seems to have worked reasonably well.

So it's tough to come up with a generalizable suggestion that applies to college football. Sometimes changes work. Sometimes they don't. Sometimes not changing works too.

A very quick look at the data suggests that Sarkisian's shake-up appears to have worked reasonably well, with the caveat that there are few data points to examine.

UW
2011: 33.4 ppg, 6.21 ypp, 409.8 ypg
2012: 24.0 ppg, 5.11 ypp, 355.2 ypg
2013*: 37.9 ppg, 6.35 ypp, 499.3 ypg
2014: 30.8 ppg, 5.11 ypp, 364.9 ypg

2013 corresponds to the year he instituted the "hybrid" offense; points per game went up 14, yards per game went up 144, and, most importantly, yards per play went up by 1.2.  Subsequently, with the hiring of Chris Petersen, all offensive numbers have fallen back a bit.

USC
2012: 32.1 ppg, 6.60 ypp, 432.9 ypg
2013: 29.7 ppg, 6.05 ypp, 399.1 ypg
2014*: 34.9 ppg, 6.13 ypp, 458.9 ypg

At USC, Sark's offense this year has improved over last year (though by a less dramatic amount) 5ppg, a shade under 0.1 ypp, and about 50 yards per game.  Of course, some of that might just be improvements in Kody Kessler from his first to his second year, and much of it is simply that they are running more plays. Compared to Matt Barkeley in 2012, yards per play are down, even as yards per game and ppg are up (obviously, SC is running more plays in the hurry up hybrid offense).

BC

Re: New OC suggestions or wishes? - washingtonismoney - 11-04-2014

By the way, w/r/t my Nussmeier suggestion: he's the guy who coordinated UW during that 2011 season. Had solid records at Alabama. Michigan's offense stinks -- but is that Brady Hoke's fault?

(Remember, here's how you can describe some of the most successful members of the staff:
"N.D.'s defensive line stinks -- but is that Randy Hart's fault?"
"Texas's defense stinks -- but is that Duane Akina's fault?"
"C.al's special teams stink -- but is that Pete Alamar's fault?")