WBB: Stanford 65, Utah 44 - Printable Version

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WBB: Stanford 65, Utah 44 - 81alum - 01-25-2013

First, our sympathy goes out for Taryn Wicijowski, one of Utah's two stars, who went out with a knee injury ten minutes into the game.  We Stanford fans know what it means to lose a key player to a knee injury--it is the curse of women's basketball and the worst feature of the game.  And credit is due to Michelle Plouffe, who led the game with 24 points and 10 rebounds.  She reminds me a lot of Kayla Peterson.  Utah has some fine players.

Stanford, however, led from start to finish with very little suspense in the game.  When Taryn went out we were leading by 9, by 16 at the half, and increased it to 21 by the end.  Chiney finished with 23 points and 13 rebounds, but the big story was the offensive breakout for Joslyn.  Jos was 7/9 for 16 points and 8 rebounds.  She was 2/4 to continue her torrid pace for 3 pointers, although she did break her streak after 8 straight makes.  I wonder how many players have hit 8 straight treys?

Sara James was a "gamer" and continued to hustle, slash, and take open shots.  Unfortunately, they rarely went in.  She was only 1/11.  Still, it is hard to fault her--most of those 11 shots seemed like reasonable ones to take.  Maybe she forced it a bit when she slashed to the basket a couple of times, but it is refreshing to see another player taking some initiative.

Toni and Amber were not really "on" their offensive games tonight.  Toni just has not been taking many shots lately.  She was 3/5 tonight.  Amber was 1/6.  I'm a bit worried about Toni. 

Taylor Greenfield got 18 minutes.  I've been curious about her progress this year--she seems to have receded from the forefront with Ruef back and now Sara getting minutes--considering that she was a starter for much of last season.  She took 3 shots, made 1, but led the team with 4 assists.  I just can't help thinking that she could still be a great player if she can somehow get her offensive game cranked up to match the other aspects of her play.  But it just doesn't seem to be happening.

Bonnie was 2/5 and continued her 3 point drought, but she showed a couple of moves to the basket that I have not seen from her before.  That was highly encouraging.  Erica Payne came in and did a decent job defending Ploufe, and she also went 1/3, and showed a spectacular move--splitting defenders, on her one basket.

Overall, the teams were tied in rebounds, which is a bit troubling.  We had 12 assists, which verges on mediocre, and shot only 40%.  The same story as the whole year--we won this game with very good defense and mediocre offense.  It looks as if we will have a much more dangerous foe on Sunday, with Cal and Colorado tied as I write this.

postscript:  Cal pulled it out over Colorado.  It looked to me that the game was sealed by a questionable non-call when Colorado's Roberson tried to score over Brandon.  In other words, the refs were continuuing to allow Cal to get away with mugging their opponents.

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Re: WBB: Stanford 65, Utah 44 - M T - 01-26-2013

I was glad to see Wicijowski, knee wrapped, but sitting on the bench during the second half.  The Utes web site simply describes it as a "knee injury."  She previously red-shirted because of an ACL injury to that knee.  I wish her the best. 

What would be my choice for highlight of the game:
After the injury, once a timeout was called, she stood on her own, all alone, under the Utah basket, looking to be in pain.  Jos went to her to give her support and walked her half-way to the Utah bench before another Utah player came to take her place.  That's a nice example of sportsmanship by Jos.  (I was a bit disappointed there wasn't a picture of that in one of the galleries.)

Once she was out & Plouffe got in foul trouble in the second half, Chiney had little trouble going to the hoop.  Plouffe came back in with 4 fouls with 12 minutes left and didn't foul out, but couldn't be too effective on the defense.  Still, Stanford didn't just bury them as I think could have happened.  Stanford could use more killer instinct.

Clearly our shooting was again lacking.  Sara tried, and failed. 1 of 11. Amber 1 of 6.  Mikaela 1 of 4.  Erica and Taylor 1 of 3 each.  Our players seemed to be tense on their shots, often pushing the ball too hard.  Even on layups.  Even Chiney seemed to have the same problem.  We had more missed layups than missed three-pointers!  Seven different players missed at least one layup (not counting any fouls), for a total of 10 missed layups!  It wasn't that rough inside.  Maybe it was something in the air as Utah missed 5 layups, including a completely open one late in the game.

I think sometimes some of us (and I do specifically include me) focus on the flaws and miss some of the good things.  To note:

• We had ZERO turnovers in the first half and wound up with only 8 (2 in the last 1:30).  Not quite as good as last outing against them (6), but second best in the season.
  
• Scoring, while concentrated in Chiney & Jos, was spread out some more, with 13 bench points.
  
• While rebounding was even, Stanford got 16 second-chance points to only 5 for Utah.
  
• 21 points off turnovers was the high for our season.
  
• We can probably take some credit for their season low 25% FG%.
  
• While 12 assists may be mediocre, they covered 48% of our FG, which is right on our season average.  A/TO = 1.5, which is good.
  
• We got a lot of time off the bench, averaging nearly 13 minutes per position (64 min. total)
  
• The league-leading 3PT% shooter only had one 3pt attempt, and missed.
  

According to KZSU post-game interview with Taylor, Tara was intending to concentrate on other players scoring more, as she expected Chiney to be held in check by their two tall players.  It didn't turn out that way at all.


I will remind everyone that when we were on the road, Utah lost to C.al by only 5, while Colorado lost by 4 to C.al, while we beat Utah by 14 and Colorado by 17.  Colorado certainly gave C.al a run tonight, losing by just 3.  But I'd hope we have a 10+ point win on Sunday.  Not an easy game, and certainly one we could lose if we play poorly and they play well, but one I'd expect to win.


It looks like Toni (again) and Mikaela were the most effective players:

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Re: WBB: Stanford 65, Utah 44 - 81alum - 01-26-2013

(01-26-2013, 05:22 AM)MT link Wrote:The league-leading 3PT% shooter only had one 3pt attempt, and missed.

I had not realized this.  Very impressive.  I presume Toni was on her?  Maybe that was part of Toni's issue, using up her energy closely defending the opponent's top perimeter player.  Toni has become the new Ros--the shut-down defensive perimeter player who doesn't score a whole lot.

Tara is fully aware of our offensive vulnerabilities: 

Quote:"I'm just glad Chiney and Jos came to the game tonight," Cardinal coach Tara VanDerveer said.  "Otherwise it would have been tough. We're trying to get more people involved but we really struggled on the perimeter. It was the Chiney-Jos show and they really got it done."

And here is a particularly revealing Tara pre-game quote coming off of Drukarev's board http://stanford.rivals.com/content.asp?CID=1464265 :

Quote:"We're working on pace, our offensive pace, and trying to get people to set better screens," VanDerveer said. "We're working on getting on the o-boards better. I showed our team the Pac-12 statistics where we're working being more aggressive. We're 12th in the Pac-12 in steals, we're 11th I think in o-boards. We're living a lot on what Chiney does and we need some people to carry more of a load. I really think the blueprint of our team is Sara James, how well she's done and how well she's contributing. So for other people it's if she can do it, you can do it, that's been our message. We're just hoping to get more contributions from more people. We think we have capable players that are spectating. We have to make more happen."

So Tara is certainly focussed on the offense.  She is seeing all the things we are seeing, and is trying to get more players involved in the offense.

Also, the Drukarev quotes say something interesting about Toni:

Quote:"Toni's knee was a little sore, she was out today. Everybody else was going 100 percent. Toni felt fine. She has[a brace on her right thumb. She has a lot of dings. It might be affecting her shot, she hurt it right before UConn. It's on her shooting hand, a little brace for her thumb, and her shooting is way down from last year. Maybe she has to adjust to it."

Other reports about the game pointed out something that gives this game a little more context:  Utah's flight to California was grounded on Thursday and delayed until Friday morning, then delayed again.  They did not land until 5 hours before game time.  A messed-up, discombobulated day, capped off with an injury.  How awful for them.

When Chiney went out I noticed at the time that--while everything looked a bit disjointed--we actually expanded our lead (from 10-3 to 16-5).  I said to myself "this is going to show up in MT's stats."  But it seems we expanded our lead even faster when she was in the game, no?

We won the first half 35-19, and the second half 30-26.  The contrast was not nearly as extreme as with USC--we seemed to do a better job staying focussed in the second half.  Still, it is worth watching.

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Re: WBB: Stanford 65, Utah 44 - WAcard - 01-26-2013

Here' S a couple of stats 1 assist in a combined 75 mins of our starting backcourt and 5 of 22 only because Toni was 3 of  5.

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Re: WBB: Stanford 65, Utah 44 - Yellowlab - 01-26-2013

OK, Stanford did not shoot well, but there was good ball movement!  Sara wasn't making anything, but continued to attack the defense.  I have to think many of those shots go in most nights.  Amber missed a couple mid-range shots that she has been knocking down more often than not.  It might just've been one of those games shooting wise. 

Jos came out as aggressive as I've ever seen her.  I think it is true that seniors start to count down the number of games they have left at Maples, and ratchet up their intensity.  Jos even used the backboard on one drive!  I was also touched when Jos was the first person to go help the injured Ute.  It reminded me of when JJ did that for an opponent when JJ was between ACL injuries herself.

I don't think I told this story from the Rainbow Classic in November:  Jos gets the ball down low and knocks an opponent to the floor.  She has the ball for an uncontested lay up, but hesitates.  We all had the same thought:  "She's going to help the player up before shooting!"  Fortunately, she recovered herself and put the ball in, but we had a good laugh about it.  She may be as nice as they come, but I wouldn't mind seeing her continue to play with a sense of urgency out there.

I'm still smarting from the UConn smack down, and the Cal loss, but it seems to me that the coaching staff may have figured out a few things about this team.  I'm very curious to see how they respond against Colorado.

Oh, by the way, Chiney was great.

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Re: WBB: Stanford 65, Utah 44 - Yellowlab - 01-26-2013

I'm sorry, but Jake Curtis is reporting that it was indeed another ACL Injury.

http://www.examiner.com/article/stanford-women-clobber-utah-but-need-more-from-their-guards?CID=examiner_alerts_article

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Re: WBB: Stanford 65, Utah 44 - 81alum - 01-26-2013

That is horrible.  The epidemic of ligament injuries in WBB is barbaric.  I hope that one day they will figure out how to prevent them.

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Re: WBB: Stanford 65, Utah 44 - yvonne - 01-26-2013

(01-26-2013, 02:28 PM)81alum link Wrote:I hope that one day they will figure out how to prevent them.

narrowing women's hips?

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Re: WBB: Stanford 65, Utah 44 - 81alum - 01-26-2013

(01-26-2013, 05:23 PM)Yvonne link Wrote:[quote author=81alum link=topic=7460.msg57923#msg57923 date=1359235703]
I hope that one day they will figure out how to prevent them.

narrowing women's hips?
[/quote]
Is that what causes these injuries at such a high rate among women?

One of the young women I had in class last semester--and who plays basketball at a JC--came back to class last week in a wheelchair.  I haven't yet asked what happened. 

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Re: WBB: Stanford 65, Utah 44 - yvonne - 01-26-2013

Quote:However, recent research suggests that the difference between a man and a woman’s hip structure may be the most significant reason why women experience more knee injuries. A woman’s wider hips cause her to land in a more “knock-kneed” position – angled in from hip to knee and angled out from knee to ankle - to maintain balance, whereas a man’s legs tend to be straighter when he lands. This angular positioning of the legs produces a tremendous strain on the knees.

http://www.brighamandwomens.org/Departments_and_Services/medicine/services/rheumatology/womensortho/BaimaKneeQA.aspx

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ACL injury theories - M T - 01-27-2013

The Utah Women's basketball team's website's article update before their C.al game, dated Saturday, does not state it is an ACL injury

Quote:Taryn Wicijowski left the Stanford game midway through the first half with a knee injury. She will be reevaluated before Sunday's game.

I continue to hope that the injury was minor and she can surprise their next opponent.  I will note that I saw no ice on the knee during the second half and I saw her stand and (stiffly) move around on the knee with no crutches.  I would be very surprised if they thought she had an ACL injury but didn't put her on crutches or ice the knee, which appear to be part of the recommended first aid until it is evaluated.  But I am no physician!

I remember watching one Stanford player tear her ACL as she was headed into the step to elevate to the basket.  I don't remember an awkward landing where her knee obviously was inside her ankle (but that could be just my memory).  But it made me wonder whether the article here was the best theory out there.  Here are different perspectives on the injury:

A theory of compressive forces triggering the injury (and, as I read it, causes an internal rotation ("crumple"), perhaps exacerbated by the knee not being above the foot):
http://www.smartplanet.com/blog/big-story/with-technology-bringing-the-acl-tear-to-its-knees/101  (25 Sep 2012)

Quote:Around the time that Sheehan-Gavelli was working on her thesis at Stanford, using the cardiac MRI to image moving bones, Dr. Barry Boden, now an orthopedic surgeon outside Washington, D.C., was at Duke University, starting to look at how ACL injures occur. “Seventy percent of these are non-contact injuries,” he said, “so I thought if we had a better understanding of how they happened, we could prevent some of these injuries.”

Several years ago, he began looking at videotapes of NBA and WNBA games during which athletes were tearing their ACLs and comparing them to videos of similar movements that weren’t causing injuries. When he slowed the tapes, Boden was able to classify dangerous and safe landing positions. He could see that the injured athletes landed on their heel or flat-footed, and all the non-injured athletes landed on the ball of their foot.

The faulty position was causing a compression injury. It’s like jamming your finger into a basketball. Or, to use a different metaphor, it’s like the crumple zone of a car, which absorbs the impact of a collision so the driver doesn’t have to. Similarly, the human calf muscles are designed to absorb the force of a jump when, say, you dunk a basketball and land on your toes. If you land flat-footed, the impact goes directly to your knees. The theory was that landing flat-footed causes the knee to jam and the femur snaps the ACL.

Boden teamed up with Sheehan-Gavelli to further study these injuries; he provided the gruesome videos of the injuries, and she offered an understanding of the knee mechanics, took measurements and provided statistics. They looked at patients in a standing MRI machine — in both the safe and dangerous positions — which offered insight into how the leg is aligned and how gravity affects someone in a fall. Combining that data with the videos, the duo was able to determine how the injury occurs.
...
“We know from a biomechanical standpoint that we can train these athletes to keep their legs from internally rotating when they jump and land,” Mandelbaum said, taking a break from watching soccer at the Olympic Games last month. “There is a learning to it — not only for the knee and hip but for the brain –neuroplasticity. It’s like playing the piano. After six weeks, we can change the biomechanical variables and change the brain waves.”
...
“The concept is simple,” Beutler said. “Teaching people to land softly, toe to heel, not heel to toe. Use your body as God intended you to use it — keep your knees over your toes and use your knees as hinges. We like things to bend straight, not like corkscrews.”

Sheehan-Gavelli said for all the research findings, there are still various camps when it comes to the cause of ACL tears, and there are still people who question the effectiveness of prevention exercises. Dr. Kevin Shea, an orthopedic surgeon in Boise, Idaho, has conducted a study looking at female high school athletes and found that retraining them doesn’t reduce the risk of injury; he said if it’s possible, the retraining may take years, not weeks.

(Sep 2009) Seemingly different theory, based on similar evidence, suggesting more pressure on the knee from dynamics of the body at the time of impact.
http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/09/09/phys-ed-preventing-acl-injuries-in-girls/

Quote:They solicited videos from surgeons and coaches showing the exact moment when athletes, male and female, suffered an ACL tear. They also gathered videos of female basketball players performing similar movements — foot plants, pivots, and so on — without tearing their ACLs. Using computer software, they marked and triangulated exactly how the athletes were positioned. What they found, according to the results made available online in April in the British Journal of Sports Medicine, was that young women whose ACLs had popped exhibited more trunk sway than the men or the uninjured women; when they landed, or planted a knee to switch directions, their upper bodies wobbled to one side. This placed great pressure on their planted knee, collapsing it inward and overloading the ACL. “Our research suggests that the issue in injured female athletes,” Hewett says, “is a lack of high-level ability to control deceleration and acceleration at the center of their mass in three-dimensional space.”

In that same article, another experiment is mentioned.

Quote:In the meantime, McLean, at the University of Michigan wonders whether all of the current theories about ACL injuries in girls are reductionist. For a study made available online in May in the journal The Knee, he attached ACL-damaged knees from male and female cadavers to a machine that applied loads similar to those experienced during various athletic movements and found that, “really, no two knees respond alike,” he says. Some ACLs from male cadavers readily tore; some from women held fast under every tension.

However, the article linked to was a Dec. 2009 article (with McLean as an author) and appears to be different than that description.  Based on cadaver experiments, the team created models of the ACL strain (I presume they mean stretching) through a range of forces on knees of both sexes.  Per those models, the female ACL experiences significantly greater strain than male for almost all situations.  The stated suggestion is that the female ACL will be injured by a smaller force on the knee than the male ACL.  I believe the reason for the disparity is solely in the structure of the knee itself.
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0968016009000751

Quote:While gender-based differences in knee joint anatomies/laxities are well documented, the potential for them to precipitate gender-dimorphic ACL loading and resultant injury risk has not been considered. To this end, we generated gender-specific models of ACL strain as a function of any six degrees of freedom (6DOF) knee joint load state via a combined cadaveric and analytical approach. ...
Predicted female ACL strains were also significantly larger than respective male values for both simulated 6 DOF load scenarios. Outcomes suggest that the female ACL will rupture in response to comparatively smaller external load applications. Future work must address the underlying anatomical/laxity contributions to knee joint mechanical and resultant ACL loading, ultimately affording prevention strategies that may cater to individual joint vulnerabilities.

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