[Nan3cy]

Our granddaughter just finished her sophomore year at a private high school in San Jose. She's taking a prep class for the ACT and intends to take it rather than the SAT. Does anyone here know if she's narrowing her options by only taking the ACT? She did very well on the pre-test before the class -- at least I think it was good (26 overall) -- but her grandfather is worried that there are schools that won't consider her as seriously without the SAT. Would appreciate any insight/opinions from this distinguished group...

[Nan3cy]

Our granddaughter just finished her sophomore year at a private high school in San Jose. She's taking a prep class for the ACT and intends to take it rather than the SAT. Does anyone here know if she's narrowing her options by only taking the ACT? She did very well on the pre-test before the class -- at least I think it was good (26 overall) -- but her grandfather is worried that there are schools that won't consider her as seriously without the SAT. Would appreciate any insight/opinions from this distinguished group...

[fullmetal]

To be honest, I don't understand why anyone takes the ACT unless they feel their science (analytical reasoning) skills are relatively strong compared to their reading/writing/math skills.  I believe both tests have reading/writing/math sections, and the ACT has an optional writing component on top of the additional science section.

I think any college admissions office worth its salt will comprehend and accept an ACT score, but the general question these days might be "why didn't you take the SAT?"  It does seem like the currency of the land.

The max ACT score is 36.  Has she taken an SAT pre-test?

[fullmetal]

To be honest, I don't understand why anyone takes the ACT unless they feel their science (analytical reasoning) skills are relatively strong compared to their reading/writing/math skills.  I believe both tests have reading/writing/math sections, and the ACT has an optional writing component on top of the additional science section.

I think any college admissions office worth its salt will comprehend and accept an ACT score, but the general question these days might be "why didn't you take the SAT?"  It does seem like the currency of the land.

The max ACT score is 36.  Has she taken an SAT pre-test?

[Nan3cy]

To be honest, I don't understand why anyone takes the ACT unless they feel their science (analytical reasoning) skills are relatively strong compared to their reading/writing/math skills.  I believe both tests have reading/writing/math sections, and the ACT has an optional writing component on top of the additional science section.

I think any college admissions office worth its salt will comprehend and accept an ACT score, but the general question these days might be "why didn't you take the SAT?"  It does seem like the currency of the land.

The max ACT score is 36.  Has she taken an SAT pre-test?

No, she hasn't. It sounds as if she's been warned off the SAT because "it's being changed" and "it tries to trick you." (Not sure who's doing the warning, but it may be the conventional wisdom at her high school -- which is a very good school.) She did do better on the science section of the ACT than on the English portion.

[Nan3cy]

To be honest, I don't understand why anyone takes the ACT unless they feel their science (analytical reasoning) skills are relatively strong compared to their reading/writing/math skills.  I believe both tests have reading/writing/math sections, and the ACT has an optional writing component on top of the additional science section.

I think any college admissions office worth its salt will comprehend and accept an ACT score, but the general question these days might be "why didn't you take the SAT?"  It does seem like the currency of the land.

The max ACT score is 36.  Has she taken an SAT pre-test?

No, she hasn't. It sounds as if she's been warned off the SAT because "it's being changed" and "it tries to trick you." (Not sure who's doing the warning, but it may be the conventional wisdom at her high school -- which is a very good school.) She did do better on the science section of the ACT than on the English portion.

[winflop]

Our granddaughter just finished her sophomore year at a private high school in San Jose. She's taking a prep class for the ACT and intends to take it rather than the SAT. Does anyone here know if she's narrowing her options by only taking the ACT? She did very well on the pre-test before the class -- at least I think it was good (26 overall) -- but her grandfather is worried that there are schools that won't consider her as seriously without the SAT. Would appreciate any insight/opinions from this distinguished group...

I believe there is some kind of test your child can take that will indicate which of the two tests is likelier to yield a higher score.  My understanding these days is that the vast majority of colleges will take either one.

[winflop]

Our granddaughter just finished her sophomore year at a private high school in San Jose. She's taking a prep class for the ACT and intends to take it rather than the SAT. Does anyone here know if she's narrowing her options by only taking the ACT? She did very well on the pre-test before the class -- at least I think it was good (26 overall) -- but her grandfather is worried that there are schools that won't consider her as seriously without the SAT. Would appreciate any insight/opinions from this distinguished group...

I believe there is some kind of test your child can take that will indicate which of the two tests is likelier to yield a higher score.  My understanding these days is that the vast majority of colleges will take either one.

[jacketree]

Most schools take either.  I did much better on the ACT than the SAT, and this is apparently genetic.  Good thing for my son that USNA would mix 'n match scores. He crushed the ACT but not the SAT.  Got in everywhere he applied except the UCs.

The ACT is more like school; in my opinion the SAT is a little off in testing academic or real world skill.  Seems to be some gamesmanship involved.  I think the ACT is easier to take without professional preparation.

[jacketree]

Most schools take either.  I did much better on the ACT than the SAT, and this is apparently genetic.  Good thing for my son that USNA would mix 'n match scores. He crushed the ACT but not the SAT.  Got in everywhere he applied except the UCs.

The ACT is more like school; in my opinion the SAT is a little off in testing academic or real world skill.  Seems to be some gamesmanship involved.  I think the ACT is easier to take without professional preparation.

[Treebound]

My son just graduated from a local private HS and is heading to Stanford in the fall.  He took the SAT and did very well.  All the colleges that we visited said that you can submit scores from either or both.  He decided not to take the ACT after he received his SAT scores.

Our daughter just finished her sophomore year at the same school.  As many of you know, the SAT will change next year, so it is a bit of a mystery for everyone at this point.  Given that prepping for a new SAT will be more of an unknown, we know some students will be opting for the ACT.  We are on the fence, so it's good to hear peoples perspectives on this topic. 

[Treebound]

My son just graduated from a local private HS and is heading to Stanford in the fall.  He took the SAT and did very well.  All the colleges that we visited said that you can submit scores from either or both.  He decided not to take the ACT after he received his SAT scores.

Our daughter just finished her sophomore year at the same school.  As many of you know, the SAT will change next year, so it is a bit of a mystery for everyone at this point.  Given that prepping for a new SAT will be more of an unknown, we know some students will be opting for the ACT.  We are on the fence, so it's good to hear peoples perspectives on this topic. 

[Mick]

My older son scored the exact same on both the SAT and ACT (according to the concordance tables).  My younger son did better on the SAT after having been assured that he'd do better on the ACT.  One of his high school counselors told him that the ACT is more subject/achievement-oriented while the SAT focuses more on problem-solving and thinking skills.

[Mick]

My older son scored the exact same on both the SAT and ACT (according to the concordance tables).  My younger son did better on the SAT after having been assured that he'd do better on the ACT.  One of his high school counselors told him that the ACT is more subject/achievement-oriented while the SAT focuses more on problem-solving and thinking skills.

[Farm93]

SAT is ideal for good test takers.  I knew I was very good at the game and thrived in the SAT realm.  My public school was pretty strong so I had the ACT material down too, but there was just a lot more to know with the ACT.    I enjoyed the problem-solving realm, so the SAT was built for me.


The initial poster noted the student attends private schools.  If that private school is any good then perhaps they have done more to prepare students for the ACT. Perhaps they know that the student in question here is more likely to get a strong score in one or the other.


This notion of trying to trick you seems really odd though.  The questions in the SAT are not particularly tricky.  Some need to master little tricks to save time, but those that work quickly can navigate the tests without needing know time saving tricks or games.


One path?  Buy a prep book, or online versions if they exist now, for each test type.  Take a sample tests in each book and see where they score out.

[Farm93]

SAT is ideal for good test takers.  I knew I was very good at the game and thrived in the SAT realm.  My public school was pretty strong so I had the ACT material down too, but there was just a lot more to know with the ACT.    I enjoyed the problem-solving realm, so the SAT was built for me.


The initial poster noted the student attends private schools.  If that private school is any good then perhaps they have done more to prepare students for the ACT. Perhaps they know that the student in question here is more likely to get a strong score in one or the other.


This notion of trying to trick you seems really odd though.  The questions in the SAT are not particularly tricky.  Some need to master little tricks to save time, but those that work quickly can navigate the tests without needing know time saving tricks or games.


One path?  Buy a prep book, or online versions if they exist now, for each test type.  Take a sample tests in each book and see where they score out.

[oldalum]

When I went through the admissions process with my oldest 2 years ago, every admissions counselor said it does not matter to them at all which one you take, they treat them equally. I see no reason not to believe them, and I disagree with the comments above to the contrary. In the distant past, the SAT was clearly the dominant test, but the ACT is now taken by more students than the SAT. That is probably one of the reasons why the SAT is changing next March, apparently to become more like the ACT. (I suspect grandfather is basing his opinion on old information.)


With my oldest, it was universally recommended to take both, because some students do better on one than the other and it is not necessarily predictable from the pretests (and for him, it did not turn out to have been predictable). Almost all schools allow you to send them only the best one even if you took both (not Stanford).

I have a just-finished sophomore too, and the change in the SAT is a wild card in the game. There is no clear path, everything has tradeoffs and uncertainty. Our sophomore has decided to prepare for the old SAT test which is being given for the last time in January 2016 because it is known how to prepare for that one. Then she'll take the ACT, and reassess then. I am a little uncomfortable with that strategy but that's the plan.

[oldalum]

When I went through the admissions process with my oldest 2 years ago, every admissions counselor said it does not matter to them at all which one you take, they treat them equally. I see no reason not to believe them, and I disagree with the comments above to the contrary. In the distant past, the SAT was clearly the dominant test, but the ACT is now taken by more students than the SAT. That is probably one of the reasons why the SAT is changing next March, apparently to become more like the ACT. (I suspect grandfather is basing his opinion on old information.)


With my oldest, it was universally recommended to take both, because some students do better on one than the other and it is not necessarily predictable from the pretests (and for him, it did not turn out to have been predictable). Almost all schools allow you to send them only the best one even if you took both (not Stanford).

I have a just-finished sophomore too, and the change in the SAT is a wild card in the game. There is no clear path, everything has tradeoffs and uncertainty. Our sophomore has decided to prepare for the old SAT test which is being given for the last time in January 2016 because it is known how to prepare for that one. Then she'll take the ACT, and reassess then. I am a little uncomfortable with that strategy but that's the plan.

[BostonCard]

I don't know if it is still the case, but Stanford used to consider your best test if you took both the SAT and ACT (or if you took one test multiple times).  In fact, it allowed you to "mix and match"; that is, for the SAT, take your best verbal score, and your best math score, even if they occurred on different tests.

This, of course, tends to advantage wealthier families who can afford to have their kids take multiple tests and take them multiple times, but I suspect Stanford had other ways to make up for this.

BC

[BostonCard]

I don't know if it is still the case, but Stanford used to consider your best test if you took both the SAT and ACT (or if you took one test multiple times).  In fact, it allowed you to "mix and match"; that is, for the SAT, take your best verbal score, and your best math score, even if they occurred on different tests.

This, of course, tends to advantage wealthier families who can afford to have their kids take multiple tests and take them multiple times, but I suspect Stanford had other ways to make up for this.

BC

[Nan3cy]

Thanks everyone. This is helpful.

[Nan3cy]

Thanks everyone. This is helpful.

[81alum]

The Gunn college counselors told us that the ACT is becoming more common for elite students; it is more of an achievement test while the SAT is more of an intelligence test.

Very bright students who have possibly underperformed in classes are better off with the SAT.  Diligent students who are extremely well prepared but who may not be as gifted are better off with the ACT.  Students who are both very bright and well prepared are probably better with the SAT on the theory that their GPA will prove their preparation and the SAT will show their potential.

If the student is going to take several subject tests, however, then do the SAT.  There are a few schools that require subject tests for SAT takers but wave subject tests for ACT takers.

[81alum]

The Gunn college counselors told us that the ACT is becoming more common for elite students; it is more of an achievement test while the SAT is more of an intelligence test.

Very bright students who have possibly underperformed in classes are better off with the SAT.  Diligent students who are extremely well prepared but who may not be as gifted are better off with the ACT.  Students who are both very bright and well prepared are probably better with the SAT on the theory that their GPA will prove their preparation and the SAT will show their potential.

If the student is going to take several subject tests, however, then do the SAT.  There are a few schools that require subject tests for SAT takers but wave subject tests for ACT takers.

[FarmBoy]

I took both. Scored better on the ACT and used that on my application to Stanford to no ill effects. That was 20 years ago, though, so take it as you will.

[FarmBoy]

I took both. Scored better on the ACT and used that on my application to Stanford to no ill effects. That was 20 years ago, though, so take it as you will.

[oldalum]

If the student is going to take several subject tests, however, then do the SAT.  There are a few schools that require subject tests for SAT takers but wave subject tests for ACT takers.

I don't understand what you mean, 81. If you are going to take some subject tests (and everyone should: they can only help, you don't have to send them unless a school requires 1 or more), then it doesn't matter whether you take the SAT, ACT, or both. If you know you are only going to take the SAT, then you should take some subject tests--but in my view you should do so anyway. If you are going to take only the ACT, subject tests can still help your application even though they are not required. Other than some preparation time, no downside to taking them when you have taken the class that prepares you for them.

[oldalum]

If the student is going to take several subject tests, however, then do the SAT.  There are a few schools that require subject tests for SAT takers but wave subject tests for ACT takers.

I don't understand what you mean, 81. If you are going to take some subject tests (and everyone should: they can only help, you don't have to send them unless a school requires 1 or more), then it doesn't matter whether you take the SAT, ACT, or both. If you know you are only going to take the SAT, then you should take some subject tests--but in my view you should do so anyway. If you are going to take only the ACT, subject tests can still help your application even though they are not required. Other than some preparation time, no downside to taking them when you have taken the class that prepares you for them.

[oldalum]

I don't know if it is still the case, but Stanford used to consider your best test if you took both the SAT and ACT (or if you took one test multiple times).  In fact, it allowed you to "mix and match"; that is, for the SAT, take your best verbal score, and your best math score, even if they occurred on different tests.

This is called "super-scoring" but none of the schools we looked at 2 years ago do it across tests (SAT-ACT), only within the SAT or within the ACT. Each school's admissions website explains its policy. Some schools superscore, others do not.

I have heard admissions counselors say they disfavor applicants who take the SAT or ACT too many times precisely because it disadvantages those who can't. (I don't know how many = too many)

Your granddaughter (or her parent) should probably take the time now to look at the admissions requirements for schools she may be interested in, just to make sure to cover all the bases. For example, Georgetown requires 3 SAT subject tests, which is the most of any school my oldest looked at, and he made sure to take 3 for that reason.

[oldalum]

I don't know if it is still the case, but Stanford used to consider your best test if you took both the SAT and ACT (or if you took one test multiple times).  In fact, it allowed you to "mix and match"; that is, for the SAT, take your best verbal score, and your best math score, even if they occurred on different tests.

This is called "super-scoring" but none of the schools we looked at 2 years ago do it across tests (SAT-ACT), only within the SAT or within the ACT. Each school's admissions website explains its policy. Some schools superscore, others do not.

I have heard admissions counselors say they disfavor applicants who take the SAT or ACT too many times precisely because it disadvantages those who can't. (I don't know how many = too many)

Your granddaughter (or her parent) should probably take the time now to look at the admissions requirements for schools she may be interested in, just to make sure to cover all the bases. For example, Georgetown requires 3 SAT subject tests, which is the most of any school my oldest looked at, and he made sure to take 3 for that reason.

[JohnR34231]

Are "subject" tests what were, once upon a time, known as "achievement" tests?

I believe so.


I'm guessing the name was changed for the same reason why what was once the "Scholastic Aptitude Test" is now just the SAT.

[JohnR34231]

Are "subject" tests what were, once upon a time, known as "achievement" tests?

I believe so.


I'm guessing the name was changed for the same reason why what was once the "Scholastic Aptitude Test" is now just the SAT.

[BostonCard]

[quote author=Boston Card link=topic=12223.msg120081#msg120081 date=1433471496]
I don't know if it is still the case, but Stanford used to consider your best test if you took both the SAT and ACT (or if you took one test multiple times).  In fact, it allowed you to "mix and match"; that is, for the SAT, take your best verbal score, and your best math score, even if they occurred on different tests.

This is called "super-scoring" but none of the schools we looked at 2 years ago do it across tests (SAT-ACT), only within the SAT or within the ACT. Each school's admissions website explains its policy. Some schools superscore, others do not.

I have heard admissions counselors say they disfavor applicants who take the SAT or ACT too many times precisely because it disadvantages those who can't. (I don't know how many = too many)

Your granddaughter (or her parent) should probably take the time now to look at the admissions requirements for schools she may be interested in, just to make sure to cover all the bases. For example, Georgetown requires 3 SAT subject tests, which is the most of any school my oldest looked at, and he made sure to take 3 for that reason.
[/quote]

Correct, i did not mean that you could combine the best parts of the SAT and ACT together.  Just that you could take the best components of the SAT and combine across test dates (and presumably the same for ACT).

I agree that a college might look suspiciously at someone who was an outlier in terms of how many times they took the test.

BC

[BostonCard]

[quote author=Boston Card link=topic=12223.msg120081#msg120081 date=1433471496]
I don't know if it is still the case, but Stanford used to consider your best test if you took both the SAT and ACT (or if you took one test multiple times).  In fact, it allowed you to "mix and match"; that is, for the SAT, take your best verbal score, and your best math score, even if they occurred on different tests.

This is called "super-scoring" but none of the schools we looked at 2 years ago do it across tests (SAT-ACT), only within the SAT or within the ACT. Each school's admissions website explains its policy. Some schools superscore, others do not.

I have heard admissions counselors say they disfavor applicants who take the SAT or ACT too many times precisely because it disadvantages those who can't. (I don't know how many = too many)

Your granddaughter (or her parent) should probably take the time now to look at the admissions requirements for schools she may be interested in, just to make sure to cover all the bases. For example, Georgetown requires 3 SAT subject tests, which is the most of any school my oldest looked at, and he made sure to take 3 for that reason.
[/quote]

Correct, i did not mean that you could combine the best parts of the SAT and ACT together.  Just that you could take the best components of the SAT and combine across test dates (and presumably the same for ACT).

I agree that a college might look suspiciously at someone who was an outlier in terms of how many times they took the test.

BC

[oldalum]

Contrary to what I said above (now corrected), Stanford does not require applicants to send every score they receive on subject tests (because subject tests are not required). So there really is no downside to taking subject tests (unless some other school requires you to send all scores).


Stanford does require applicants to send every score on the SAT and ACT tests, though, and so do some other top schools.

[oldalum]

Contrary to what I said above (now corrected), Stanford does not require applicants to send every score they receive on subject tests (because subject tests are not required). So there really is no downside to taking subject tests (unless some other school requires you to send all scores).


Stanford does require applicants to send every score on the SAT and ACT tests, though, and so do some other top schools.