[Hulk01]

Okay, I'm going with:
Dustin Johnson
Rory (of course)
Jason Day
Adam Scott
Justin Rose
Mickelsen
Matsuyama

All three of these guys can carry it past 295 and hit short shots to these firm and tricky greens.  The guys who have to hit two or three more clubs into them are not good bets.

So I am shorting the short hitters:
Dufner
Simpson
Snedeker
McDowell
Poulter
Kuchar
Tringale
Donald
Furyk
Spieth (not horribly short, but not long enough)

It will be interesting to see how strongly driving distance correlates to the final placing.

[Hulk01]

Okay, I'm going with:
Dustin Johnson
Rory (of course)
Jason Day
Adam Scott
Justin Rose
Mickelsen
Matsuyama

All three of these guys can carry it past 295 and hit short shots to these firm and tricky greens.  The guys who have to hit two or three more clubs into them are not good bets.

So I am shorting the short hitters:
Dufner
Simpson
Snedeker
McDowell
Poulter
Kuchar
Tringale
Donald
Furyk
Spieth (not horribly short, but not long enough)

It will be interesting to see how strongly driving distance correlates to the final placing.

[Leftcoast]

So far, so good for your picks.  Of course we're not even through the first round but you'll like the early leaderboard. 

Dustin Johnson is leading with Francesco Molinara and Phil Mickelson in the hunt.  Adam Scott and Hideki Matsuyama are nearby.  The only early miss is your short hitter Kuchar who is hanging in at 4th place.  Early days though.

1 Dustin Johnson -6 17* -6
T2 Henrik Stenson -4 17 -4
T2 Patrick Reed -4 16* -4
4 Matt Kuchar -3 F* -3
T5 Cody Gribble -2 F -2
T5 Francesco Molinari -2 17 -2
T7 Phil Mickelson -1 F -1

[Leftcoast]

So far, so good for your picks.  Of course we're not even through the first round but you'll like the early leaderboard. 

Dustin Johnson is leading with Francesco Molinara and Phil Mickelson in the hunt.  Adam Scott and Hideki Matsuyama are nearby.  The only early miss is your short hitter Kuchar who is hanging in at 4th place.  Early days though.

1 Dustin Johnson -6 17* -6
T2 Henrik Stenson -4 17 -4
T2 Patrick Reed -4 16* -4
4 Matt Kuchar -3 F* -3
T5 Cody Gribble -2 F -2
T5 Francesco Molinari -2 17 -2
T7 Phil Mickelson -1 F -1

[slide]

an interesting mix on the leaderboard -- bombers like Dustin and shortballers like Kuchar and Molinari.  course must be set up fairly -- as it doesn't appear to favor favor one over the other.

[slide]

an interesting mix on the leaderboard -- bombers like Dustin and shortballers like Kuchar and Molinari.  course must be set up fairly -- as it doesn't appear to favor favor one over the other.

[CornFed]

I, for one, am relieved.  Word of mouth that I got was that Chambers Bay is Scottish golf on steroids.  So severe, it was said, that it came across as a cheesy putt-putt course.  So much for the credibility of those who passed along that info.


The contours are severe.  And there are many dangers throughout the course.  I haven't seen too many pure "opportunity" holes yet, although I've only been able to catch snippets of the broadcast.  Maybe the easiest hole is the 1st.  However, the fact that it is first (except for those starting on 10 today and tomorrow) diminishes the opportunity quite a bit.  Starting a course with a (deceptively) easy par five was one of Alister McKenzie's favorite devices.  He enticed you to opt for the aggressive approach before you really know where your game is on a given day.


Part of the reason the course is a bit tamer today is that the greens are only rolling at 11.5 on the stimpmeter.  The superintendent tried to suggest that that was about average for championship golf.  I don't know who he thinks he's fooling.  I am thinking that they cranked it back because of concerns that could get out of hand (bad) if they ran at 12.5 or 13.0.  Now that they seem to be surviving the first day without embarrassment (so far - Tiger hasn't teed off yet), I would not be surprised if the speed of the greens is ratcheted up as we get further into the weekend.


In any case, what I have seen to this point is wildly entertaining.  Mickelson was lining up a 40-foot downhill putt and Greg Norman (?) and Joe Buck (!!???!!!) started discussing the 15-foot left-to-right break that he would need to navigate.  He ended up playing 25 feet to the right and rolling it up off the green and back down toward the cup!  It should be added that he came up about 8 feet short and ended up three putting, so maybe Norman was right.  Bottom line is that I am thinking this course has more options on every shot than any we're used to seeing.

[CornFed]

I, for one, am relieved.  Word of mouth that I got was that Chambers Bay is Scottish golf on steroids.  So severe, it was said, that it came across as a cheesy putt-putt course.  So much for the credibility of those who passed along that info.


The contours are severe.  And there are many dangers throughout the course.  I haven't seen too many pure "opportunity" holes yet, although I've only been able to catch snippets of the broadcast.  Maybe the easiest hole is the 1st.  However, the fact that it is first (except for those starting on 10 today and tomorrow) diminishes the opportunity quite a bit.  Starting a course with a (deceptively) easy par five was one of Alister McKenzie's favorite devices.  He enticed you to opt for the aggressive approach before you really know where your game is on a given day.


Part of the reason the course is a bit tamer today is that the greens are only rolling at 11.5 on the stimpmeter.  The superintendent tried to suggest that that was about average for championship golf.  I don't know who he thinks he's fooling.  I am thinking that they cranked it back because of concerns that could get out of hand (bad) if they ran at 12.5 or 13.0.  Now that they seem to be surviving the first day without embarrassment (so far - Tiger hasn't teed off yet), I would not be surprised if the speed of the greens is ratcheted up as we get further into the weekend.


In any case, what I have seen to this point is wildly entertaining.  Mickelson was lining up a 40-foot downhill putt and Greg Norman (?) and Joe Buck (!!???!!!) started discussing the 15-foot left-to-right break that he would need to navigate.  He ended up playing 25 feet to the right and rolling it up off the green and back down toward the cup!  It should be added that he came up about 8 feet short and ended up three putting, so maybe Norman was right.  Bottom line is that I am thinking this course has more options on every shot than any we're used to seeing.

[Hulk01]

The USGA probably won't like these first-round scores.  In which case, as you point out, they will speed up the greens.  The wind and air aren't going to do that for them, apparently.  The players might not see a wind over 10 mph or a midafternoon over 75 degrees, and the air gets very cool and damp at night. 

I was in Seattle Monday, by the way.  The buzz was everywhere and all through the airport.  The Pacific Northwest is thrilled to have a major, and good for them.  Would love to see one at Bandon but the hosts would have to built 5,000 temporary cabins to house the fans, and the traffic on US 101--does it ever exceed two lanes down there?--would be impossible.  They'd have to run and almost bumper-to-bumper procession of buses to get people in and out.

But a fellow can dream.  I'd sleep in a bag on the beach to see it.

[Hulk01]

The USGA probably won't like these first-round scores.  In which case, as you point out, they will speed up the greens.  The wind and air aren't going to do that for them, apparently.  The players might not see a wind over 10 mph or a midafternoon over 75 degrees, and the air gets very cool and damp at night. 

I was in Seattle Monday, by the way.  The buzz was everywhere and all through the airport.  The Pacific Northwest is thrilled to have a major, and good for them.  Would love to see one at Bandon but the hosts would have to built 5,000 temporary cabins to house the fans, and the traffic on US 101--does it ever exceed two lanes down there?--would be impossible.  They'd have to run and almost bumper-to-bumper procession of buses to get people in and out.

But a fellow can dream.  I'd sleep in a bag on the beach to see it.

[Hulk01]

I'm just betting very good and not very good.  That is. I'm betting that the course will overwhelmingly favor the guys who can routinely carry the ball up to and beyond 295 yards, and will punish the guys--not matter how accurately they drive-- who can't bomb it down the fairway and take a shorter shot to these greens.

If I had to pick one, I'd make the safe choice of the boomers: Rory.  Johnson would be my number two. 

I forgot to include Bubba Watson in the boomers.  He's not a bad choice.  Holmes hits the hell out of it too.

And I wish Patrick Rodgers had qualified.  He's as long as anyone other than Johnson, Holmes and Watson.

I'm still going against Kuchar, Snedeker and Furyk.  Very good players but this sure doesn't look like their venue.

[Hulk01]

I'm just betting very good and not very good.  That is. I'm betting that the course will overwhelmingly favor the guys who can routinely carry the ball up to and beyond 295 yards, and will punish the guys--not matter how accurately they drive-- who can't bomb it down the fairway and take a shorter shot to these greens.

If I had to pick one, I'd make the safe choice of the boomers: Rory.  Johnson would be my number two. 

I forgot to include Bubba Watson in the boomers.  He's not a bad choice.  Holmes hits the hell out of it too.

And I wish Patrick Rodgers had qualified.  He's as long as anyone other than Johnson, Holmes and Watson.

I'm still going against Kuchar, Snedeker and Furyk.  Very good players but this sure doesn't look like their venue.

[Hulk01]

Find me a bookie who will take my clusters--I'll say group A beats group B by four strokes per guy over four rounds--and I'd lay it down  It makes no sense to bet the winner of a US Open.  It's the most arbitrary sporting event I am aware of.  (Andy North, Orville Moody, Charles Coody, and on and on.) Even the NCAA match play championships.

[Hulk01]

Find me a bookie who will take my clusters--I'll say group A beats group B by four strokes per guy over four rounds--and I'd lay it down  It makes no sense to bet the winner of a US Open.  It's the most arbitrary sporting event I am aware of.  (Andy North, Orville Moody, Charles Coody, and on and on.) Even the NCAA match play championships.

[CornFed]

Just began reviewing the recording I made of play today and realized that they are playing the first hole as a par 4 today.  It can play as either a par 4 or a par 5, and others to whom I have spoken (other than those negative sensationalists I mentioned in my previous post) have said there is a possibility it will be played as a par 5 during one of the rounds.  Probably not if, as Hulk said, the tournament committee feels scoring has been too low.


In fact, there are several holes on this course that can be dramatically changed by pin and/or tee selection.  There are actually about 21 or 22 holes on this course, really.


I do not feel as strongly as Hulk that pure power will be sufficient to differentiate a player.  Players who have imagination in their short game and balanced emotional approaches will close the gap on those that don't.  However, this does seem to narrow the field to power players with these other qualities.  Not at all surprising then that DJ is currently in the lead.  Although many things make sense in retrospect.  ;D

[CornFed]

Just began reviewing the recording I made of play today and realized that they are playing the first hole as a par 4 today.  It can play as either a par 4 or a par 5, and others to whom I have spoken (other than those negative sensationalists I mentioned in my previous post) have said there is a possibility it will be played as a par 5 during one of the rounds.  Probably not if, as Hulk said, the tournament committee feels scoring has been too low.


In fact, there are several holes on this course that can be dramatically changed by pin and/or tee selection.  There are actually about 21 or 22 holes on this course, really.


I do not feel as strongly as Hulk that pure power will be sufficient to differentiate a player.  Players who have imagination in their short game and balanced emotional approaches will close the gap on those that don't.  However, this does seem to narrow the field to power players with these other qualities.  Not at all surprising then that DJ is currently in the lead.  Although many things make sense in retrospect.  ;D

[CornFed]

[size=1.35em]Further to one of the points in my previous post, this passage from a Golf Digest article:


[color=rgb(35, 31, 32)]And Chambers Bay has so many disparate elements to cope with, golfers would be wise to go with the flow.[/color][/size][/size]


[color=rgb(35, 31, 32)]A freight train that might blow its whistle as you’re about to hit? Cool.[/color][/font][/size]
[color=rgb(35, 31, 32)]Greens of fescue grass that are so indistinguishable from the fairways of fescue grass that the USGA will put little white paint dots to show where the greens begin? Awesome.[/color][/font][/size]
[color=rgb(35, 31, 32)]Nine different holes that will have multiple tees, including two (No. 1 and 18) that will play as both a par 4 and a par 5 at some point, and another (No. 9) that will either feature a 100-foot downhill tee shot or a slightly uphill tee shot, depending on the location? Bring it on![/color][/font][/size][/size][/font]




**  Sorry about the font and format drama in this post.  Something about the source print made copy and paste more complicated.

[CornFed]

[size=1.35em]Further to one of the points in my previous post, this passage from a Golf Digest article:


[color=rgb(35, 31, 32)]And Chambers Bay has so many disparate elements to cope with, golfers would be wise to go with the flow.[/color][/size][/size]


[color=rgb(35, 31, 32)]A freight train that might blow its whistle as you’re about to hit? Cool.[/color][/font][/size]
[color=rgb(35, 31, 32)]Greens of fescue grass that are so indistinguishable from the fairways of fescue grass that the USGA will put little white paint dots to show where the greens begin? Awesome.[/color][/font][/size]
[color=rgb(35, 31, 32)]Nine different holes that will have multiple tees, including two (No. 1 and 18) that will play as both a par 4 and a par 5 at some point, and another (No. 9) that will either feature a 100-foot downhill tee shot or a slightly uphill tee shot, depending on the location? Bring it on![/color][/font][/size][/size][/font]




**  Sorry about the font and format drama in this post.  Something about the source print made copy and paste more complicated.

[Langdude]

Hulk, have you played Bandon? Has anyone here? I live in Seattle, and it pretty much has hit mythical status.


-m.

[Langdude]

Hulk, have you played Bandon? Has anyone here? I live in Seattle, and it pretty much has hit mythical status.


-m.

[CornFed]

It deserves it.  I'm told it is the only location in the US in which gorse grows naturally.  An Irishman I met there said, "It's more Irish than the courses back home."  No carts.  You can carry, use a caddy or use a pull cart.  The facility is all about golf and simple comfort.  No fancy spas, no shopping, no kiddie park.  It does have a comprehensive practice facility that I enjoyed immensely.  The first day, we arrived about noon and played an afternoon round.  The temperature was in the mid-seventies and there was almost no wind.  Our caddies, who had been there since the first course opened, both said it was the most harmless weather they had ever seen.  The next morning we awoke to horizontal rain and 40 mph winds with gusts to more than 50.  During our morning round (we played two) we played a particular par five (I honestly don't remember which one) directly into the wind.  My friend, who is very long, hit a driver, and then a driver off the deck, then another driver off the deck onto the green, sank a 20' putt for what he called the greatest birdie of his life.


There are very strong similarities between Bandon and what I'm seeing of Chambers Bay on TV.  I have enjoyed watching the course and some of the plays are literally fantastic (and I believe I know the meaning of the word "literal").  In any case, the dispersion of scores today seemed more severe than I have recalled from the past but that is not the result of any specific analysis.  It suggests that nobody is out of it yet (except Tiger, I suppose).  It is going to be a very fun weekend for us golf fanatics.  ;D

[CornFed]

It deserves it.  I'm told it is the only location in the US in which gorse grows naturally.  An Irishman I met there said, "It's more Irish than the courses back home."  No carts.  You can carry, use a caddy or use a pull cart.  The facility is all about golf and simple comfort.  No fancy spas, no shopping, no kiddie park.  It does have a comprehensive practice facility that I enjoyed immensely.  The first day, we arrived about noon and played an afternoon round.  The temperature was in the mid-seventies and there was almost no wind.  Our caddies, who had been there since the first course opened, both said it was the most harmless weather they had ever seen.  The next morning we awoke to horizontal rain and 40 mph winds with gusts to more than 50.  During our morning round (we played two) we played a particular par five (I honestly don't remember which one) directly into the wind.  My friend, who is very long, hit a driver, and then a driver off the deck, then another driver off the deck onto the green, sank a 20' putt for what he called the greatest birdie of his life.


There are very strong similarities between Bandon and what I'm seeing of Chambers Bay on TV.  I have enjoyed watching the course and some of the plays are literally fantastic (and I believe I know the meaning of the word "literal").  In any case, the dispersion of scores today seemed more severe than I have recalled from the past but that is not the result of any specific analysis.  It suggests that nobody is out of it yet (except Tiger, I suppose).  It is going to be a very fun weekend for us golf fanatics.  ;D

[Stymie]

Hulk, have you played Bandon? Has anyone here? I live in Seattle, and it pretty much has hit mythical status.


-m.

I've been to Bandon Dunes twice, both on 4-day trips with golfing buddies.  The first trip was in 2001 just after its 2nd course (Pacific Dunes) was opened and the second in 2011.  All the 4 courses are very good, although I would not put any of them in my world top-30.  Each is very different, too, which adds to the enjoyment of a stay there.  The resort is a self-contained golf immersion experience unlike any other place I have ever seen.  The area outside of the resort makes Myrtle Beach look like the Cote d'Azur.

As for the US Open, I'm following Jimmy Gunn, a kid from one of my clubs who is a very good player and whose career has been a real life "Tin Cup" story.  He got into the event at the last moment, was last out yesterday and shot 72, tied for 52nd.  I'm hoping for a Carl Spackler "Cinderella Story" over the next 3 days.....

[Stymie]

Hulk, have you played Bandon? Has anyone here? I live in Seattle, and it pretty much has hit mythical status.


-m.

I've been to Bandon Dunes twice, both on 4-day trips with golfing buddies.  The first trip was in 2001 just after its 2nd course (Pacific Dunes) was opened and the second in 2011.  All the 4 courses are very good, although I would not put any of them in my world top-30.  Each is very different, too, which adds to the enjoyment of a stay there.  The resort is a self-contained golf immersion experience unlike any other place I have ever seen.  The area outside of the resort makes Myrtle Beach look like the Cote d'Azur.

As for the US Open, I'm following Jimmy Gunn, a kid from one of my clubs who is a very good player and whose career has been a real life "Tin Cup" story.  He got into the event at the last moment, was last out yesterday and shot 72, tied for 52nd.  I'm hoping for a Carl Spackler "Cinderella Story" over the next 3 days.....

[Hulk01]

Yes, I've played Pacific, Trails, and Bandon Dunes, and toured McDonald during the construction.  My son Will has played them all many times, and shares my preference: Pacific, Trails, Old McDonald, and Bandon Dunes.  But he loves the cliffside hole at the Sheep Ranch the most. 

Trails suffers from being off the ocean, while Bandon Dunes benefits enormously from it.  A lot of David Kidd's choices seem a little gimmicky to me, while Trails, like all of Coore's courses, seems to emerge naturally from the land; there isn't a false note.  ( I was at Kidd's course in Bend last weekend, and it looked like a chorus of false notes.) 

Again, I think McDonald will grow in stature as it grows in.  It still has a bit of the just-built feel to it.

[Hulk01]

Yes, I've played Pacific, Trails, and Bandon Dunes, and toured McDonald during the construction.  My son Will has played them all many times, and shares my preference: Pacific, Trails, Old McDonald, and Bandon Dunes.  But he loves the cliffside hole at the Sheep Ranch the most. 

Trails suffers from being off the ocean, while Bandon Dunes benefits enormously from it.  A lot of David Kidd's choices seem a little gimmicky to me, while Trails, like all of Coore's courses, seems to emerge naturally from the land; there isn't a false note.  ( I was at Kidd's course in Bend last weekend, and it looked like a chorus of false notes.) 

Again, I think McDonald will grow in stature as it grows in.  It still has a bit of the just-built feel to it.

[Mick]

The contours are severe.  And there are many dangers throughout the course.  I haven't seen too many pure "opportunity" holes yet, although I've only been able to catch snippets of the broadcast.  Maybe the easiest hole is the 1st.  However, the fact that it is first (except for those starting on 10 today and tomorrow) diminishes the opportunity quite a bit.  Starting a course with a (deceptively) easy par five was one of Alister McKenzie's favorite devices.  He enticed you to opt for the aggressive approach before you really know where your game is on a given day.

In high school, I played Pasatiempo most afternoons.  It a downhill, 485 yard par five straight as an arrow, with an enormous tree about 100 yards in front of the very large green, and several bunkers surrounding it, OB tight left..  Looked really easy, played quite difficult.  Most subtle difficulty, IMHO, was playing your second shot off of a slightly sloping downhill.  Plays havoc if you tend to hit right or left.

Today?  They cut the tree down and now it's just a long, fairly wide open par 4.  Really a shame.

BTW, I've heard Watson say that Pasatiempo's 16th hole is either his favorite or one of his few favorites.  Blind drive, dogleg left, carry over canyon to elevated, three-tier green.  My dad and I were on that green one day, and I was midway between the upper two tiers on the right and the hole placement was left/middle of the lower tier, about an 18 foot putt.  He walked straight down to the front right of the green and said "your best bet is to put it right here, it's the only way it won't go off the green."  Stubborn Mick, I hit for the hole, missed it by three inches, went about eight yards off the green.  Later, dad told me that the last time the NCGA had a stimpmeter on the green, they were told that the grass was too short for this green, given that the green had been designed for the farming implements of the late 1920s.

[Mick]

The contours are severe.  And there are many dangers throughout the course.  I haven't seen too many pure "opportunity" holes yet, although I've only been able to catch snippets of the broadcast.  Maybe the easiest hole is the 1st.  However, the fact that it is first (except for those starting on 10 today and tomorrow) diminishes the opportunity quite a bit.  Starting a course with a (deceptively) easy par five was one of Alister McKenzie's favorite devices.  He enticed you to opt for the aggressive approach before you really know where your game is on a given day.

In high school, I played Pasatiempo most afternoons.  It a downhill, 485 yard par five straight as an arrow, with an enormous tree about 100 yards in front of the very large green, and several bunkers surrounding it, OB tight left..  Looked really easy, played quite difficult.  Most subtle difficulty, IMHO, was playing your second shot off of a slightly sloping downhill.  Plays havoc if you tend to hit right or left.

Today?  They cut the tree down and now it's just a long, fairly wide open par 4.  Really a shame.

BTW, I've heard Watson say that Pasatiempo's 16th hole is either his favorite or one of his few favorites.  Blind drive, dogleg left, carry over canyon to elevated, three-tier green.  My dad and I were on that green one day, and I was midway between the upper two tiers on the right and the hole placement was left/middle of the lower tier, about an 18 foot putt.  He walked straight down to the front right of the green and said "your best bet is to put it right here, it's the only way it won't go off the green."  Stubborn Mick, I hit for the hole, missed it by three inches, went about eight yards off the green.  Later, dad told me that the last time the NCGA had a stimpmeter on the green, they were told that the grass was too short for this green, given that the green had been designed for the farming implements of the late 1920s.

[CornFed]

Chambers Bay has been controversial due to the severity of its topography and the extreme style of play that results from its design and set up.  However, there have been historic highlights this week in terms of individual shots and several players' grittiness (especially Jason Day).  From a fan's perspective it is pretty fascinating and the rotation at the top of the leader board and the churning of players suddenly dropping out of sight makes for a kind of ghoulish drama as viewers wait anxiously to see when, not if, their favorite player gets hammered by the course.  The fans at the course seem to be fairly loutish, probably due to their being Seahawk fans with nothing else to do in the offseason.  Most could probably not add the scores up for the players and, thankfully, are not having to stress out with too many negative numbers.


But why bore you with my thoughts (I know, right?).  Here is a video of Gary Player giving his.  You go, Gary!:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ha59iKfjTxw

[CornFed]

Chambers Bay has been controversial due to the severity of its topography and the extreme style of play that results from its design and set up.  However, there have been historic highlights this week in terms of individual shots and several players' grittiness (especially Jason Day).  From a fan's perspective it is pretty fascinating and the rotation at the top of the leader board and the churning of players suddenly dropping out of sight makes for a kind of ghoulish drama as viewers wait anxiously to see when, not if, their favorite player gets hammered by the course.  The fans at the course seem to be fairly loutish, probably due to their being Seahawk fans with nothing else to do in the offseason.  Most could probably not add the scores up for the players and, thankfully, are not having to stress out with too many negative numbers.


But why bore you with my thoughts (I know, right?).  Here is a video of Gary Player giving his.  You go, Gary!:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ha59iKfjTxw

[Beeg_Dawg]

Been there everyday.  Lots of interesting stories, but my observations.
1) USGA absolutely screwed the punch.  If the goal is promoting golf, they failed miserably.  How many potential golfer would watch this and think "Gee, that looks like fun". ?
2) Players bitched about the greens, but I didn't catch any comments about drives with 70-80 yd rollouts. 
3) Hike in and out.  God help you if you are not in hiking shape.  First day, I walked the entire course.  I'm guessing it was close to 10 miles from the time I got off the bus until I returned.  The course is built in an abandoned quarry, and I estimate it's 300-400 feet from top to bottom. Swtchbacks would be nice.  Saw a lot of overweight folks struggling to get around the course. 
4) Lots of bitching about the greens.  Personally, I'd like to see a course  that was so punishing for a less than perfect shot.
5) Not sure where you got the info about the stimp, but I heard the greens were running around 12.
6) Should have had more stadium seating and large video monitors.
7) USGA needs to revise it's camera policy.  I forgot to remove a small Canon from my fanny pack and had to check it, even though 40,000 cell phones with cameras and the ability to immediately upload pictures to social media went though security.

All in all, I'm glad I went for the entire week. Would I return to Chambers Bay? Not without significant changes to improve the fan experience..

[Beeg_Dawg]

Been there everyday.  Lots of interesting stories, but my observations.
1) USGA absolutely screwed the punch.  If the goal is promoting golf, they failed miserably.  How many potential golfer would watch this and think "Gee, that looks like fun". ?
2) Players bitched about the greens, but I didn't catch any comments about drives with 70-80 yd rollouts. 
3) Hike in and out.  God help you if you are not in hiking shape.  First day, I walked the entire course.  I'm guessing it was close to 10 miles from the time I got off the bus until I returned.  The course is built in an abandoned quarry, and I estimate it's 300-400 feet from top to bottom. Swtchbacks would be nice.  Saw a lot of overweight folks struggling to get around the course. 
4) Lots of bitching about the greens.  Personally, I'd like to see a course  that was so punishing for a less than perfect shot.
5) Not sure where you got the info about the stimp, but I heard the greens were running around 12.
6) Should have had more stadium seating and large video monitors.
7) USGA needs to revise it's camera policy.  I forgot to remove a small Canon from my fanny pack and had to check it, even though 40,000 cell phones with cameras and the ability to immediately upload pictures to social media went though security.

All in all, I'm glad I went for the entire week. Would I return to Chambers Bay? Not without significant changes to improve the fan experience..

[CornFed]

The information I mentioned about the stimpmeter came from the golf course superintendent on the first day of the Fox Sports 1 broadcast.  He was talking to Greg Norman and said they had measured the stimpmeter that morning at about 11.0 to 11.5.  As I mentioned, he indicated that that is about the norm for major championships, which I am fairly certain is not true.  That first day, the players made many comments about the speed of the greens and several pointed out that the practice green was considerably faster than the greens on the course.


The play of the course did seem to quicken as the tournament went on.  Never heard another reference to the stimp reading, but it sure seemed to go up.  But when that happened, the play of the course got much more severe.  Shots that were hit to the dead center of the fairway would catch an awkward bounce, begin to roll, and trickle 50 yards or more until they went into a trap, under a lip of the bunker.  Putts from just off the green would hit severe aberrations in the surface and pop 2" into the air.  Speith's tee shot on the par-3 17th landed just short of the hole and stopped and began drifting back, gained momentum and just kept rolling off the false front 25 yards short and nearly went into a trap.  Grace's 2nd shot on the par-5 18th went past the hole, up a slope 25' past it, started rolling back, caught another slope on the way back and it left him a 30' putt.


I found it interesting that I did not see another comment by Gary Player anywhere since he made the comments in the video I posted above.  I did not even hear the announcers refer to the harsh criticisms that he leveled.  That should have been a major story.  When someone of his stature is that severely critical, you would think the topic would be pursued.  If there were contrary viewpoints with equal credibility, they should have been brought out.  There probably weren't any.  Fox Sports just tried to bury it and pretend everything was hunky dunky.  It wasn't.


I think the players would have given up half the roll that gave them the extra distance you mention if the putting surface could be normalized even a little.  There were admittedly lots of exciting individual shots and the turmoil at the top of the leader board gives announcers fodder to gin up story lines and excitement.  But that turmoil was the direct result of the randomness in shot outcomes caused by poor design elements in the course and poor decisions about how to set up the course each day.


For some reason the USGA rushed to hold this event at Chambers Bay.  The course is only eight years old.  One significant national competition had been held there previously.  The whole thing needed more time to mature and work out the design flaws.  I am relieved that golf will be returning to a more substantive and proven site next year at Oakmont in Pittsburg, PA.  I suspect they will not be returning to Chambers Bay in my lifetime.

[CornFed]

The information I mentioned about the stimpmeter came from the golf course superintendent on the first day of the Fox Sports 1 broadcast.  He was talking to Greg Norman and said they had measured the stimpmeter that morning at about 11.0 to 11.5.  As I mentioned, he indicated that that is about the norm for major championships, which I am fairly certain is not true.  That first day, the players made many comments about the speed of the greens and several pointed out that the practice green was considerably faster than the greens on the course.


The play of the course did seem to quicken as the tournament went on.  Never heard another reference to the stimp reading, but it sure seemed to go up.  But when that happened, the play of the course got much more severe.  Shots that were hit to the dead center of the fairway would catch an awkward bounce, begin to roll, and trickle 50 yards or more until they went into a trap, under a lip of the bunker.  Putts from just off the green would hit severe aberrations in the surface and pop 2" into the air.  Speith's tee shot on the par-3 17th landed just short of the hole and stopped and began drifting back, gained momentum and just kept rolling off the false front 25 yards short and nearly went into a trap.  Grace's 2nd shot on the par-5 18th went past the hole, up a slope 25' past it, started rolling back, caught another slope on the way back and it left him a 30' putt.


I found it interesting that I did not see another comment by Gary Player anywhere since he made the comments in the video I posted above.  I did not even hear the announcers refer to the harsh criticisms that he leveled.  That should have been a major story.  When someone of his stature is that severely critical, you would think the topic would be pursued.  If there were contrary viewpoints with equal credibility, they should have been brought out.  There probably weren't any.  Fox Sports just tried to bury it and pretend everything was hunky dunky.  It wasn't.


I think the players would have given up half the roll that gave them the extra distance you mention if the putting surface could be normalized even a little.  There were admittedly lots of exciting individual shots and the turmoil at the top of the leader board gives announcers fodder to gin up story lines and excitement.  But that turmoil was the direct result of the randomness in shot outcomes caused by poor design elements in the course and poor decisions about how to set up the course each day.


For some reason the USGA rushed to hold this event at Chambers Bay.  The course is only eight years old.  One significant national competition had been held there previously.  The whole thing needed more time to mature and work out the design flaws.  I am relieved that golf will be returning to a more substantive and proven site next year at Oakmont in Pittsburg, PA.  I suspect they will not be returning to Chambers Bay in my lifetime.

[Hulk01]

The bombers did well, it turns out. 

Eight of the ten biggest drivers in the field finished in the top 20: Johnson (1), Beljan (2), Lovemark (3), Funau (4), Day (6), McElroy (8), Scott (9), and Koepka (10).  Holmes got into the top ten on Saturday but faded to 27th.  Only Bubba Watson among the top ten missed the top 30, and he did it badly, missing the cut by two strokes.  Patrick Rodgers ranked in the top ten for driving distance, but did not qualify.  That appeasrs too bad; looks like he might have made some nice money.

Cameron Smith (averages 278.5) was the only singles hitter to crack the the top ten.  The only other short hitters in the final 20 and ties were Kuchar (283.5) and Duffney (281.5).  (The average tour player averages 287.4).

It too often felt like a version of Putt-Putt golf--too made back stops and loop-de-loops.  And the course seems to penalize too much the right to left righthander or left hander who strongly the draw. 

It also didn't appear the greens were ready.  Too much chop, which added too much arbitrariness to the putts. 

Hated to see it end as it did. but those were bad strokes by Johnson at the end.  But two remarkable shots to putt himself in a position to fail so dramatically.  Aggn, golf.

[Hulk01]

The bombers did well, it turns out. 

Eight of the ten biggest drivers in the field finished in the top 20: Johnson (1), Beljan (2), Lovemark (3), Funau (4), Day (6), McElroy (8), Scott (9), and Koepka (10).  Holmes got into the top ten on Saturday but faded to 27th.  Only Bubba Watson among the top ten missed the top 30, and he did it badly, missing the cut by two strokes.  Patrick Rodgers ranked in the top ten for driving distance, but did not qualify.  That appeasrs too bad; looks like he might have made some nice money.

Cameron Smith (averages 278.5) was the only singles hitter to crack the the top ten.  The only other short hitters in the final 20 and ties were Kuchar (283.5) and Duffney (281.5).  (The average tour player averages 287.4).

It too often felt like a version of Putt-Putt golf--too made back stops and loop-de-loops.  And the course seems to penalize too much the right to left righthander or left hander who strongly the draw. 

It also didn't appear the greens were ready.  Too much chop, which added too much arbitrariness to the putts. 

Hated to see it end as it did. but those were bad strokes by Johnson at the end.  But two remarkable shots to putt himself in a position to fail so dramatically.  Aggn, golf.

[slide]

Hulk, I get a slightly count, but the same net result.  Spieth, who finished a bunting 59th in driving distance, was more an exception than a rule in terms of leaderboard.  on 18, you could really see the difference between Spieth and Johnson.  both hit good drives -- Spieth has a fairwood metal into the green and Johnson hits 5 iron.  the putter then proved the great equalizer.


this week's greens (or the absence of them) may be the 2nd worst I can recall for an Open, with only the adobe treatment Shinnecock rec'd courtesy of USGA being worse.  the fescue, poa annua, bentgrass and broccoli blend on the greens was not good, and begs the question:  what was the USGA waiting on?  they selected the course, relatively brand new at 8 months, and had to have seen the blend problem.  why wait until this year to begin sorting out the issue? 

[slide]

Hulk, I get a slightly count, but the same net result.  Spieth, who finished a bunting 59th in driving distance, was more an exception than a rule in terms of leaderboard.  on 18, you could really see the difference between Spieth and Johnson.  both hit good drives -- Spieth has a fairwood metal into the green and Johnson hits 5 iron.  the putter then proved the great equalizer.


this week's greens (or the absence of them) may be the 2nd worst I can recall for an Open, with only the adobe treatment Shinnecock rec'd courtesy of USGA being worse.  the fescue, poa annua, bentgrass and broccoli blend on the greens was not good, and begs the question:  what was the USGA waiting on?  they selected the course, relatively brand new at 8 months, and had to have seen the blend problem.  why wait until this year to begin sorting out the issue? 

[Hulk01]

I get that number of top ten drivers by including Lovemark, a bomber who hasn't appeared in enough PGA tour events to be listed in the statistics, but has averaged that 300-plus in his web.com and limited tour appearances, and by including Koepcka, who lists as 11th but would be 10th among those who qualified and played, because our man Patrick Rodgers, ranked 6th, failed to qualify.

The mere presence of Lovemark, Finau, and Koepcka on near the top seems a big signal that the course favored the home run hitters.  I had never heard of the second two guys, and knew of Lovemark only because he starred at USC and was expected to star on the tour.  But he hasn't shown enough game beyond the bombing.

The USGA  can't defend these greens to fans, because we have hi def screens and have seen lots of close up putts over the years.  The putts were bounding far too much and rolling too seldom.  And there were brobdingnagian differences in green speeds.  I'm not sure if that's because fescue and poa annua are grainier--are they?--but there were putts thatstopped and others that felw, and the players were having trouble figuring which to expect.

Truth is that the tour itself loves this.  Their guys go off to a USGA event and come back appreciating the PGA and Tour far more. 

[Hulk01]

I get that number of top ten drivers by including Lovemark, a bomber who hasn't appeared in enough PGA tour events to be listed in the statistics, but has averaged that 300-plus in his web.com and limited tour appearances, and by including Koepcka, who lists as 11th but would be 10th among those who qualified and played, because our man Patrick Rodgers, ranked 6th, failed to qualify.

The mere presence of Lovemark, Finau, and Koepcka on near the top seems a big signal that the course favored the home run hitters.  I had never heard of the second two guys, and knew of Lovemark only because he starred at USC and was expected to star on the tour.  But he hasn't shown enough game beyond the bombing.

The USGA  can't defend these greens to fans, because we have hi def screens and have seen lots of close up putts over the years.  The putts were bounding far too much and rolling too seldom.  And there were brobdingnagian differences in green speeds.  I'm not sure if that's because fescue and poa annua are grainier--are they?--but there were putts thatstopped and others that felw, and the players were having trouble figuring which to expect.

Truth is that the tour itself loves this.  Their guys go off to a USGA event and come back appreciating the PGA and Tour far more.