[washingtonismoney]

Not great if true: http://www.intouchweekly.com/posts/brock...eam-105204

[washingtonismoney]

Not great if true: http://www.intouchweekly.com/posts/brock...eam-105204

[TreesAndBirds]

Stanford needs to investigate these claims. If women student athletes were pressured to not share their experiences with the court, that is unacceptable and must be addressed.

[TreesAndBirds]

Stanford needs to investigate these claims. If women student athletes were pressured to not share their experiences with the court, that is unacceptable and must be addressed.

[dabigv13]

Well, consider the source. InTouch?

[dabigv13]

Well, consider the source. InTouch?

[stupac2]

Well, consider the source. InTouch?

It's possible they were the first people to think of asking the women's swim team about him. Who knows? Stanford should definitely look into it even if you think the odds are it's complete BS.

[stupac2]

Well, consider the source. InTouch?

It's possible they were the first people to think of asking the women's swim team about him. Who knows? Stanford should definitely look into it even if you think the odds are it's complete BS.

[BobK]

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2016/06/16/sta...urner.html


I think this story makes more sense. Well accurate maybe
Wasn't Turner a Frosh  at Stanford just a month or two.  So the Fox story
Doesn't use the long time term

[BobK]

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2016/06/16/sta...urner.html


I think this story makes more sense. Well accurate maybe
Wasn't Turner a Frosh  at Stanford just a month or two.  So the Fox story
Doesn't use the long time term

[fullmetal]

It makes sense, and I believe it  :(  But that kind of request to not say anything seems like the norm for anyone tangentially related to a major case...

[fullmetal]

It makes sense, and I believe it  :(  But that kind of request to not say anything seems like the norm for anyone tangentially related to a major case...

[oldalum]

from a prevention standpoint, if the women swimmer's perceptions are reported accurately, it seems like there was an opportunity for someone to intervene with this person before he committed the crime. This would answer my initial question from a long time ago, which is how does a seemingly normal person suddenly commit such a horrendous crime. He seems to have been abnormal and had a predisposition, and the particular circumstances of that party and intoxication allowed this predisposition to go forward to a criminal act.

[oldalum]

from a prevention standpoint, if the women swimmer's perceptions are reported accurately, it seems like there was an opportunity for someone to intervene with this person before he committed the crime. This would answer my initial question from a long time ago, which is how does a seemingly normal person suddenly commit such a horrendous crime. He seems to have been abnormal and had a predisposition, and the particular circumstances of that party and intoxication allowed this predisposition to go forward to a criminal act.

[TreesAndBirds]

If true, this is also could have affected the sentencing. Some male swim team members submit supportive recommendations to the court, but unsupportive women swim team members encouraged not to?

[TreesAndBirds]

If true, this is also could have affected the sentencing. Some male swim team members submit supportive recommendations to the court, but unsupportive women swim team members encouraged not to?

[Mick]

I think it's SOP to request that members of a group in which one member has behaved badly, are asked not to speak to the media ("publicly or to the media?"  Same thing) for a variety of reasons, not the least of which has to do with liability and culpability.  It has nothing to do with trying to "silence" the other group members per se and everything to do with managing a legal case.

I'm dealing with one of these right now, and I've dealt with dozens of them over the past 30 years.  The message to the group's other members is to refrain from speaking in the media to keep the legal case manageable.

[Mick]

I think it's SOP to request that members of a group in which one member has behaved badly, are asked not to speak to the media ("publicly or to the media?"  Same thing) for a variety of reasons, not the least of which has to do with liability and culpability.  It has nothing to do with trying to "silence" the other group members per se and everything to do with managing a legal case.

I'm dealing with one of these right now, and I've dealt with dozens of them over the past 30 years.  The message to the group's other members is to refrain from speaking in the media to keep the legal case manageable.

[TreesAndBirds]

I think it's SOP to request that members of a group in which one member has behaved badly, are asked not to speak to the media ("publicly or to the media?"  Same thing) for a variety of reasons, not the least of which has to do with liability and culpability.  It has nothing to do with trying to "silence" the other group members per se and everything to do with managing a legal case.

I'm dealing with one of these right now, and I've dealt with dozens of them over the past 30 years.  The message to the group's other members is to refrain from speaking in the media to keep the legal case manageable.

I didnt read the article as saying the women wanted to talk to the media, but rather that they wanted to submit letters to the judge (although the submitted letters have since become public). And at least one male swimmer did submit a letter to the judge in support of Brock. So if this was done on advice of counsel, it seems to have not been applied even handedly.

[TreesAndBirds]

I think it's SOP to request that members of a group in which one member has behaved badly, are asked not to speak to the media ("publicly or to the media?"  Same thing) for a variety of reasons, not the least of which has to do with liability and culpability.  It has nothing to do with trying to "silence" the other group members per se and everything to do with managing a legal case.

I'm dealing with one of these right now, and I've dealt with dozens of them over the past 30 years.  The message to the group's other members is to refrain from speaking in the media to keep the legal case manageable.

I didnt read the article as saying the women wanted to talk to the media, but rather that they wanted to submit letters to the judge (although the submitted letters have since become public). And at least one male swimmer did submit a letter to the judge in support of Brock. So if this was done on advice of counsel, it seems to have not been applied even handedly.

[FrankO]

Legalities today:  not in the know... but my instincts tell me that Mick nailed the reasoning

'60's Vibe:  the NY Times writer's account (Joe Klein) re Harris, Sweeny and Lowenstein brought back memories...  Sweeney and Harris were best buddies and after living in dorms lived off campus in a rented house/commune on upper Moody road off Page Mill, up in Los Altos Hills when Harris was elected ASSU President... and though seeming to be pretty mature for college kids, they were nevertheless considerably younger than their mentor/pied piper, Allard Lowenstein (who was then some kind of RA/Grad advisor or junior administrator in the dorms... but still very much a biggie in National Student Association circles)

That they subsequently felt betrayed by Lowenstein, not a surprise to any who were on campus at the time

[FrankO]

Legalities today:  not in the know... but my instincts tell me that Mick nailed the reasoning

'60's Vibe:  the NY Times writer's account (Joe Klein) re Harris, Sweeny and Lowenstein brought back memories...  Sweeney and Harris were best buddies and after living in dorms lived off campus in a rented house/commune on upper Moody road off Page Mill, up in Los Altos Hills when Harris was elected ASSU President... and though seeming to be pretty mature for college kids, they were nevertheless considerably younger than their mentor/pied piper, Allard Lowenstein (who was then some kind of RA/Grad advisor or junior administrator in the dorms... but still very much a biggie in National Student Association circles)

That they subsequently felt betrayed by Lowenstein, not a surprise to any who were on campus at the time

[fullmetal]

[quote author=Mick link=topic=15166.msg165118#msg165118 date=1466096534]
I think it's SOP to request that members of a group in which one member has behaved badly, are asked not to speak to the media ("publicly or to the media?"  Same thing) for a variety of reasons, not the least of which has to do with liability and culpability.  It has nothing to do with trying to "silence" the other group members per se and everything to do with managing a legal case.

I'm dealing with one of these right now, and I've dealt with dozens of them over the past 30 years.  The message to the group's other members is to refrain from speaking in the media to keep the legal case manageable.

I didnt read the article as saying the women wanted to talk to the media, but rather that they wanted to submit letters to the judge (although the submitted letters have since become public). And at least one male swimmer did submit a letter to the judge in support of Brock. So if this was done on advice of counsel, it seems to have not been applied even handedly.
[/quote]

The appearance of bias in favor of Turner from the athletic department is staggeringly bad PR.  And appearances may have been enough to grant Turner leniency...this could have mattered a lot.  And I'm still not sure how the cell phone evidence of Turner's salacious past didn't make it into the court case.

[fullmetal]

[quote author=Mick link=topic=15166.msg165118#msg165118 date=1466096534]
I think it's SOP to request that members of a group in which one member has behaved badly, are asked not to speak to the media ("publicly or to the media?"  Same thing) for a variety of reasons, not the least of which has to do with liability and culpability.  It has nothing to do with trying to "silence" the other group members per se and everything to do with managing a legal case.

I'm dealing with one of these right now, and I've dealt with dozens of them over the past 30 years.  The message to the group's other members is to refrain from speaking in the media to keep the legal case manageable.

I didnt read the article as saying the women wanted to talk to the media, but rather that they wanted to submit letters to the judge (although the submitted letters have since become public). And at least one male swimmer did submit a letter to the judge in support of Brock. So if this was done on advice of counsel, it seems to have not been applied even handedly.
[/quote]

The appearance of bias in favor of Turner from the athletic department is staggeringly bad PR.  And appearances may have been enough to grant Turner leniency...this could have mattered a lot.  And I'm still not sure how the cell phone evidence of Turner's salacious past didn't make it into the court case.

[oldalum]

And I'm still not sure how the cell phone evidence of Turner's salacious past didn't make it into the court case.

It made it into the sentencing. I am no criminal law expert, but my impression is that evidence of past behavior is often deemed too prejudicial to admit into evidence for deciding guilt or innocence of a specific act, unless a pattern can be established. The prosecution, if it knew about the cell phone stuff before the trial, probably could not have introduced it in its primary case; it probably could only have used that evidence to rebut arguments made by the plaintiff.

[oldalum]

And I'm still not sure how the cell phone evidence of Turner's salacious past didn't make it into the court case.

It made it into the sentencing. I am no criminal law expert, but my impression is that evidence of past behavior is often deemed too prejudicial to admit into evidence for deciding guilt or innocence of a specific act, unless a pattern can be established. The prosecution, if it knew about the cell phone stuff before the trial, probably could not have introduced it in its primary case; it probably could only have used that evidence to rebut arguments made by the plaintiff.

[fullmetal]

The cell phone evidence made it into sentencing and this was the result?  Oof.

[fullmetal]

The cell phone evidence made it into sentencing and this was the result?  Oof.

[oldalum]

yes, at the sentencing hearing the assistant D.A. not only pointed out his history, but that he had lied about it to the court by saying he was inexperienced at drinking and partying. This is part of the outrage at the sentence.

[oldalum]

yes, at the sentencing hearing the assistant D.A. not only pointed out his history, but that he had lied about it to the court by saying he was inexperienced at drinking and partying. This is part of the outrage at the sentence.

[fullmetal]

House Members Unite to Read Stanford Rape Victim’s Letter
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/06/17/us/pol...etter.html

Twelve of the 18 readers were women, but the group was bipartisan, bringing together lawmakers who rarely cooperate. They included liberals like Ms. Speier and three Republicans. Representative Paul Gosar of Arizona, a conservative Republican, said he had been horrified when he read Emily Doe’s statement.

“People need to learn from this,” Mr. Gosar said. “I’m a father too. I have two daughters. This should matter to everyone.”

Representative Anna G. Eshoo, Democrat of California, said she had watched as outrage over the sentencing of Mr. Turner spread from her district, which includes Stanford, across the nation. “Stanford is accustomed to being No. 1 at a lot of things, but this is not a source of pride,” Ms. Eshoo said.

[fullmetal]

House Members Unite to Read Stanford Rape Victim’s Letter
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/06/17/us/pol...etter.html

Twelve of the 18 readers were women, but the group was bipartisan, bringing together lawmakers who rarely cooperate. They included liberals like Ms. Speier and three Republicans. Representative Paul Gosar of Arizona, a conservative Republican, said he had been horrified when he read Emily Doe’s statement.

“People need to learn from this,” Mr. Gosar said. “I’m a father too. I have two daughters. This should matter to everyone.”

Representative Anna G. Eshoo, Democrat of California, said she had watched as outrage over the sentencing of Mr. Turner spread from her district, which includes Stanford, across the nation. “Stanford is accustomed to being No. 1 at a lot of things, but this is not a source of pride,” Ms. Eshoo said.

[CowboyIndian]

I guess it's good they found some common ground but I'm cynically wondering why they chose this particular event as opposed to, say, the Sandusky rapes. Don't any of the Congresspersons have sons?

[CowboyIndian]

I guess it's good they found some common ground but I'm cynically wondering why they chose this particular event as opposed to, say, the Sandusky rapes. Don't any of the Congresspersons have sons?

[82lsju]

I guess it's good they found some common ground but I'm cynically wondering why they chose this particular event as opposed to, say, the Sandusky rapes. Don't any of the Congresspersons have sons?

well Sandusky did get 60 years (eligible for parole after 30 years when he'll be 98) so maybe not so much outrage over the sentence

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jerry_Sand...sentencing

[82lsju]

I guess it's good they found some common ground but I'm cynically wondering why they chose this particular event as opposed to, say, the Sandusky rapes. Don't any of the Congresspersons have sons?

well Sandusky did get 60 years (eligible for parole after 30 years when he'll be 98) so maybe not so much outrage over the sentence

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jerry_Sand...sentencing