[82lsju]

Stanford's identity marks have a rich history.

El Palo Alto lives on, too, as the centerpiece in the Stanford University seal, and one of the Block "S" emblems. It was placed there not only because of its historical significance but also because it symbolizes the strength, independence, and enduring qualities that a great university must possess.

...

Although a version of the Block "S" with tree appears to have been used by the Stanford Alumni Association as early as 1931, it was not widely used in its current design until its appearance on uniforms for the men's soccer team in 1995. By 1999 the use of the Block "S" with tree had extended beyond athletics and was evident on Stanford identification cards as well as on memorabilia.

https://identity.stanford.edu/overview/history

[82lsju]

Stanford's identity marks have a rich history.

El Palo Alto lives on, too, as the centerpiece in the Stanford University seal, and one of the Block "S" emblems. It was placed there not only because of its historical significance but also because it symbolizes the strength, independence, and enduring qualities that a great university must possess.

...

Although a version of the Block "S" with tree appears to have been used by the Stanford Alumni Association as early as 1931, it was not widely used in its current design until its appearance on uniforms for the men's soccer team in 1995. By 1999 the use of the Block "S" with tree had extended beyond athletics and was evident on Stanford identification cards as well as on memorabilia.

https://identity.stanford.edu/overview/history

[stupac2]

Stanford's identity marks have a rich history.

El Palo Alto lives on, too, as the centerpiece in the Stanford University seal, and one of the Block "S" emblems. It was placed there not only because of its historical significance but also because it symbolizes the strength, independence, and enduring qualities that a great university must possess.

...

Although a version of the Block "S" with tree appears to have been used by the Stanford Alumni Association as early as 1931, it was not widely used in its current design until its appearance on uniforms for the men's soccer team in 1995. By 1999 the use of the Block "S" with tree had extended beyond athletics and was evident on Stanford identification cards as well as on memorabilia.

https://identity.stanford.edu/overview/history

Sure, but in the context of Stanford sports the tree isn't El Palo Alto, it's the band's mascot.

[stupac2]

Stanford's identity marks have a rich history.

El Palo Alto lives on, too, as the centerpiece in the Stanford University seal, and one of the Block "S" emblems. It was placed there not only because of its historical significance but also because it symbolizes the strength, independence, and enduring qualities that a great university must possess.

...

Although a version of the Block "S" with tree appears to have been used by the Stanford Alumni Association as early as 1931, it was not widely used in its current design until its appearance on uniforms for the men's soccer team in 1995. By 1999 the use of the Block "S" with tree had extended beyond athletics and was evident on Stanford identification cards as well as on memorabilia.

https://identity.stanford.edu/overview/history

Sure, but in the context of Stanford sports the tree isn't El Palo Alto, it's the band's mascot.

[82lsju]

Sure, but in the context of Stanford sports the tree isn't El Palo Alto, it's the band's mascot.

so you think if the tree hadn't been part of the University's identity that it would still have been adopted by the band?

[82lsju]

Sure, but in the context of Stanford sports the tree isn't El Palo Alto, it's the band's mascot.

so you think if the tree hadn't been part of the University's identity that it would still have been adopted by the band?

[JJJ]

[quote author=stupac2 link=topic=16257.msg182128#msg182128 date=1481410784]

Sure, but in the context of Stanford sports the tree isn't El Palo Alto, it's the band's mascot.

so you think if the tree hadn't been part of the University's identity that it would still have been adopted by the band?
[/quote]

This is just one person's opinion, but El Palo Alto probably helped influence the Band to adopt the Tree as its mascot. Although there is no way to know without having knowledge from an alternate universe, I believe that if the Band hadn't chosen the Tree, there would be no FEAR THE TREE t-shirts on sale at the bookstore. (FEAR EL PALO ALTO? maybe...)  :P

[JJJ]

[quote author=stupac2 link=topic=16257.msg182128#msg182128 date=1481410784]

Sure, but in the context of Stanford sports the tree isn't El Palo Alto, it's the band's mascot.

so you think if the tree hadn't been part of the University's identity that it would still have been adopted by the band?
[/quote]

This is just one person's opinion, but El Palo Alto probably helped influence the Band to adopt the Tree as its mascot. Although there is no way to know without having knowledge from an alternate universe, I believe that if the Band hadn't chosen the Tree, there would be no FEAR THE TREE t-shirts on sale at the bookstore. (FEAR EL PALO ALTO? maybe...)  :P

[82 Card]

Having come from the east coast, the great thing about Stanford for me was the iconoclastic culture in the classroom and around campus. The band was an important symbol of the lack of obeisance to the established ways. However, the willingness to do things differently in the classroom was even more important. The drive to destroy the band makes me worry that what made Stanford special is being destroyed in the rest of the University as well, turning Stanford into just another Ivy League school with better weather.

I hope I'm over-reacting.

[82 Card]

Having come from the east coast, the great thing about Stanford for me was the iconoclastic culture in the classroom and around campus. The band was an important symbol of the lack of obeisance to the established ways. However, the willingness to do things differently in the classroom was even more important. The drive to destroy the band makes me worry that what made Stanford special is being destroyed in the rest of the University as well, turning Stanford into just another Ivy League school with better weather.

I hope I'm over-reacting.

[Redrum]

Any lovers of irony notice that in the same week Stanford gets a pie in the face AND a black eye in the media for its administrative treatment of rape allegations...

AND

The band gets suspended for irreverence and beers,

[Redrum]

Any lovers of irony notice that in the same week Stanford gets a pie in the face AND a black eye in the media for its administrative treatment of rape allegations...

AND

The band gets suspended for irreverence and beers,

[M T]

This has the potential to make the administration look really bad while also being highly entertaining.

I look forward to videos of campus security chasing people with musical instruments around sporting events.

Since pretty much everything is banned from going into stadiums, maybe all the instruments will have to be kazoos.

[M T]

This has the potential to make the administration look really bad while also being highly entertaining.

I look forward to videos of campus security chasing people with musical instruments around sporting events.

Since pretty much everything is banned from going into stadiums, maybe all the instruments will have to be kazoos.

[81alum]

Having come from the east coast, the great thing about Stanford for me was the iconoclastic culture in the classroom and around campus. The band was an important symbol of the lack of obeisance to the established ways. However, the willingness to do things differently in the classroom was even more important. The drive to destroy the band makes me worry that what made Stanford special is being destroyed in the rest of the University as well, turning Stanford into just another Ivy League school with better weather.

I hope I'm over-reacting.

No, the homogenization of elite education is a real concern, driven by the fact that professional academic administrators move from elite university to elite university and often have no particular roots in the place they reside--no institutional memory.  While Etchemendy has pretty deep Stanford roots,  Tessier-Lavigne has flitted around more than half a dozen elites and a couple of corporations besides, teaching at Stanford during one of his flits.  Greg Boardman has no Stanford roots but is a lifelong academic administrator, moving up from Vermont to Penn State to Tulane to UOP to Stanford about 10 years ago.  I wonder just how many administrators on campus were undergraduates at Stanford?  Precious few.  It has been all the rage for years to seek people from the outside for "new perspectives."  In reality, Presidents know that they can control subordinates who have no deep campus ties much more easily than those who are ensconced in the campus culture. 

I doubt that it is a pure coincidence that the Band has been facing a barrage of criticisms and disciplinary actions since 2012, and only after a change in administration does a truly draconian measure drop.

You know, David Shaw may be the most significant undergraduate alum actually working at Stanford. 

[81alum]

Having come from the east coast, the great thing about Stanford for me was the iconoclastic culture in the classroom and around campus. The band was an important symbol of the lack of obeisance to the established ways. However, the willingness to do things differently in the classroom was even more important. The drive to destroy the band makes me worry that what made Stanford special is being destroyed in the rest of the University as well, turning Stanford into just another Ivy League school with better weather.

I hope I'm over-reacting.

No, the homogenization of elite education is a real concern, driven by the fact that professional academic administrators move from elite university to elite university and often have no particular roots in the place they reside--no institutional memory.  While Etchemendy has pretty deep Stanford roots,  Tessier-Lavigne has flitted around more than half a dozen elites and a couple of corporations besides, teaching at Stanford during one of his flits.  Greg Boardman has no Stanford roots but is a lifelong academic administrator, moving up from Vermont to Penn State to Tulane to UOP to Stanford about 10 years ago.  I wonder just how many administrators on campus were undergraduates at Stanford?  Precious few.  It has been all the rage for years to seek people from the outside for "new perspectives."  In reality, Presidents know that they can control subordinates who have no deep campus ties much more easily than those who are ensconced in the campus culture. 

I doubt that it is a pure coincidence that the Band has been facing a barrage of criticisms and disciplinary actions since 2012, and only after a change in administration does a truly draconian measure drop.

You know, David Shaw may be the most significant undergraduate alum actually working at Stanford. 

[82 Card]

Since pretty much everything is banned from going into stadiums, maybe all the instruments will have to be kazoos.

I suspect kazoos would be declared "artificial noisemakers" and confiscated. Maybe reusable water bottles can be adapted, perhaps using some sort of implement from concessions for percussion.

[82 Card]

Since pretty much everything is banned from going into stadiums, maybe all the instruments will have to be kazoos.

I suspect kazoos would be declared "artificial noisemakers" and confiscated. Maybe reusable water bottles can be adapted, perhaps using some sort of implement from concessions for percussion.

[stupac2]

[quote author=stupac2 link=topic=16257.msg182128#msg182128 date=1481410784]

Sure, but in the context of Stanford sports the tree isn't El Palo Alto, it's the band's mascot.

so you think if the tree hadn't been part of the University's identity that it would still have been adopted by the band?
[/quote]

No, of course not. But the fact that it's on the university seal isn't what makes it an icon of Stanford. If it weren't on the seal the band wouldn't have adopted it, but if the band didn't adopt it, it wouldn't have become the symbol of Stanford sports.

[stupac2]

[quote author=stupac2 link=topic=16257.msg182128#msg182128 date=1481410784]

Sure, but in the context of Stanford sports the tree isn't El Palo Alto, it's the band's mascot.

so you think if the tree hadn't been part of the University's identity that it would still have been adopted by the band?
[/quote]

No, of course not. But the fact that it's on the university seal isn't what makes it an icon of Stanford. If it weren't on the seal the band wouldn't have adopted it, but if the band didn't adopt it, it wouldn't have become the symbol of Stanford sports.

[82lsju]

While Etchemendy has pretty deep Stanford roots, 

As I think I wrote about here previously, I had an email exchange with John Etchemendy about the Band not going to Big Game.

He did not disclose any details about what was going on, but my takeaway (and in no way his words) was the Band was on double (or maybe triple) secret probation and that any return of the Band in its previous incarnation was as likely as me becoming a first round NBA pick........

I've experienced organizational inertia in opposition to what I want (not in college but in dealing with the small city I live in).  The working assumption is that they can wear you down and win.  In my specific example it was a ten year "situation" that was eventually resolved in our favor.  In a situation like the Band I would think the odds would be worse for succeeding as the most interested parties (current students who want to be in/like the band) have almost complete turnover every four years......

Folks who are upset about what has happened to the Band need to be prepared for a long and organized effort to change the current path. 

disclaimer, I was not in the Band but have known members of the Band

 

[82lsju]

While Etchemendy has pretty deep Stanford roots, 

As I think I wrote about here previously, I had an email exchange with John Etchemendy about the Band not going to Big Game.

He did not disclose any details about what was going on, but my takeaway (and in no way his words) was the Band was on double (or maybe triple) secret probation and that any return of the Band in its previous incarnation was as likely as me becoming a first round NBA pick........

I've experienced organizational inertia in opposition to what I want (not in college but in dealing with the small city I live in).  The working assumption is that they can wear you down and win.  In my specific example it was a ten year "situation" that was eventually resolved in our favor.  In a situation like the Band I would think the odds would be worse for succeeding as the most interested parties (current students who want to be in/like the band) have almost complete turnover every four years......

Folks who are upset about what has happened to the Band need to be prepared for a long and organized effort to change the current path. 

disclaimer, I was not in the Band but have known members of the Band

 

[Hurlburt88]

Persis Drell did not get her undergrad from Stanford but has some Stanford roots. 

[Hurlburt88]

Persis Drell did not get her undergrad from Stanford but has some Stanford roots. 

[Hurlburt88]

Persis Drell did not get her undergrad from Stanford but has some Stanford roots. 

[Hurlburt88]

Persis Drell did not get her undergrad from Stanford but has some Stanford roots. 

[81alum]

Persis Drell did not get her undergrad from Stanford but clearly has deep Stanford roots.

Well, her CV has her as a Wellesley undergrad and a Cornell professor who came out to SLAC and didn't get a job on the campus proper until 2014.  I think her roots have to do with the fact that her father was faculty and she grew up on campus, so there is that.

This is an interesting question that I had not thought about much before.  Are there, in fact, any major administrators on the Stanford campus who were undergraduates here?  Richard Saller was Illinois, Cambridge, and UChicago. 

Ah!  I found one.  Jonathan Levin, Dean of the College of Business, BS in Math and BA in English in 1994.

[81alum]

Persis Drell did not get her undergrad from Stanford but clearly has deep Stanford roots.

Well, her CV has her as a Wellesley undergrad and a Cornell professor who came out to SLAC and didn't get a job on the campus proper until 2014.  I think her roots have to do with the fact that her father was faculty and she grew up on campus, so there is that.

This is an interesting question that I had not thought about much before.  Are there, in fact, any major administrators on the Stanford campus who were undergraduates here?  Richard Saller was Illinois, Cambridge, and UChicago. 

Ah!  I found one.  Jonathan Levin, Dean of the College of Business, BS in Math and BA in English in 1994.

[81alum]

Persis Drell did not get her undergrad from Stanford but clearly has deep Stanford roots.

Well, her CV has her as a Wellesley undergrad and a Cornell professor who came out to SLAC and didn't get a job on the campus proper until 2014.  I think her roots have to do with the fact that her father was faculty and she grew up on campus, so there is that.

This is an interesting question that I had not thought about much before.  Are there, in fact, any major administrators on the Stanford campus who were undergraduates here?  Richard Saller was Illinois, Cambridge, and UChicago. 

Ah!  I found one.  Jonathan Levin, Dean of the College of Business, BS in Math and BA in English in 1994.

[81alum]

Persis Drell did not get her undergrad from Stanford but clearly has deep Stanford roots.

Well, her CV has her as a Wellesley undergrad and a Cornell professor who came out to SLAC and didn't get a job on the campus proper until 2014.  I think her roots have to do with the fact that her father was faculty and she grew up on campus, so there is that.

This is an interesting question that I had not thought about much before.  Are there, in fact, any major administrators on the Stanford campus who were undergraduates here?  Richard Saller was Illinois, Cambridge, and UChicago. 

Ah!  I found one.  Jonathan Levin, Dean of the College of Business, BS in Math and BA in English in 1994.

[Renaissance Man]

I currently have 12 season tickets for football for my family members and their children.  Our seats are in section 209, right above the band.  No band, no tree, no interest from the kids, and the adults who bring them.  I doubt that I will use even four tickets for most games this season, so I can't see a reason to pay for them.  I will still be there to see a great home schedule, but, based on the number of people who are gone with their kids by halftime during night games, I wonder how many families will come to see the frisbee dogs that we seemed to get every week during the last suspension?

[Renaissance Man]

I currently have 12 season tickets for football for my family members and their children.  Our seats are in section 209, right above the band.  No band, no tree, no interest from the kids, and the adults who bring them.  I doubt that I will use even four tickets for most games this season, so I can't see a reason to pay for them.  I will still be there to see a great home schedule, but, based on the number of people who are gone with their kids by halftime during night games, I wonder how many families will come to see the frisbee dogs that we seemed to get every week during the last suspension?

[Renaissance Man]

I currently have 12 season tickets for football for my family members and their children.  Our seats are in section 209, right above the band.  No band, no tree, no interest from the kids, and the adults who bring them.  I doubt that I will use even four tickets for most games this season, so I can't see a reason to pay for them.  I will still be there to see a great home schedule, but, based on the number of people who are gone with their kids by halftime during night games, I wonder how many families will come to see the frisbee dogs that we seemed to get every week during the last suspension?

[Renaissance Man]

I currently have 12 season tickets for football for my family members and their children.  Our seats are in section 209, right above the band.  No band, no tree, no interest from the kids, and the adults who bring them.  I doubt that I will use even four tickets for most games this season, so I can't see a reason to pay for them.  I will still be there to see a great home schedule, but, based on the number of people who are gone with their kids by halftime during night games, I wonder how many families will come to see the frisbee dogs that we seemed to get every week during the last suspension?

[2006alum]

Just catching up on all of this. Has there been any movement to create an alumni petition for some sort of review of this? There was a link to a facebook page but I'm not on facebook and it wouldn't let me view it without signing in.

I was never in the band, but I'd be more than happy to sign a petition pledging to withhold all donations to Stanford until, at a minimum, a thorough and adequate explanation is provided. I'm sure many would feel the same way.

This seems grossly unfair, given the many seemingly FAR worse incidents the Stanford Administration seems to have mishandled over the last few years, taking it out on the band is just pathetic.

During the suspension of Band activities, as individual students you are free to interact and
socialize as any Stanford student would. Groups of Band students may not, however, imply or
engage in any activity (e.g. performances, rallies, events or other activities) that would cause a
reasonable person to believe that you are representatives of the Leland Stanford Junior University
Marching Band.  Failure to abide by the full suspension of Band activities could result in
individual disciplinary action.

This is also ridiculous. Band students have to go underground just to socialize and play instruments? I'm sorry, Stanford sounds more and more like a police state.

[2006alum]

Just catching up on all of this. Has there been any movement to create an alumni petition for some sort of review of this? There was a link to a facebook page but I'm not on facebook and it wouldn't let me view it without signing in.

I was never in the band, but I'd be more than happy to sign a petition pledging to withhold all donations to Stanford until, at a minimum, a thorough and adequate explanation is provided. I'm sure many would feel the same way.

This seems grossly unfair, given the many seemingly FAR worse incidents the Stanford Administration seems to have mishandled over the last few years, taking it out on the band is just pathetic.

During the suspension of Band activities, as individual students you are free to interact and
socialize as any Stanford student would. Groups of Band students may not, however, imply or
engage in any activity (e.g. performances, rallies, events or other activities) that would cause a
reasonable person to believe that you are representatives of the Leland Stanford Junior University
Marching Band.  Failure to abide by the full suspension of Band activities could result in
individual disciplinary action.

This is also ridiculous. Band students have to go underground just to socialize and play instruments? I'm sorry, Stanford sounds more and more like a police state.

[2006alum]

Just catching up on all of this. Has there been any movement to create an alumni petition for some sort of review of this? There was a link to a facebook page but I'm not on facebook and it wouldn't let me view it without signing in.

I was never in the band, but I'd be more than happy to sign a petition pledging to withhold all donations to Stanford until, at a minimum, a thorough and adequate explanation is provided. I'm sure many would feel the same way.

This seems grossly unfair, given the many seemingly FAR worse incidents the Stanford Administration seems to have mishandled over the last few years, taking it out on the band is just pathetic.

During the suspension of Band activities, as individual students you are free to interact and
socialize as any Stanford student would. Groups of Band students may not, however, imply or
engage in any activity (e.g. performances, rallies, events or other activities) that would cause a
reasonable person to believe that you are representatives of the Leland Stanford Junior University
Marching Band.  Failure to abide by the full suspension of Band activities could result in
individual disciplinary action.

This is also ridiculous. Band students have to go underground just to socialize and play instruments? I'm sorry, Stanford sounds more and more like a police state.

[2006alum]

Just catching up on all of this. Has there been any movement to create an alumni petition for some sort of review of this? There was a link to a facebook page but I'm not on facebook and it wouldn't let me view it without signing in.

I was never in the band, but I'd be more than happy to sign a petition pledging to withhold all donations to Stanford until, at a minimum, a thorough and adequate explanation is provided. I'm sure many would feel the same way.

This seems grossly unfair, given the many seemingly FAR worse incidents the Stanford Administration seems to have mishandled over the last few years, taking it out on the band is just pathetic.

During the suspension of Band activities, as individual students you are free to interact and
socialize as any Stanford student would. Groups of Band students may not, however, imply or
engage in any activity (e.g. performances, rallies, events or other activities) that would cause a
reasonable person to believe that you are representatives of the Leland Stanford Junior University
Marching Band.  Failure to abide by the full suspension of Band activities could result in
individual disciplinary action.

This is also ridiculous. Band students have to go underground just to socialize and play instruments? I'm sorry, Stanford sounds more and more like a police state.

[Mick]

Fix vs. Destroy. 

The eternal question when people don't like something in their lives.  And people of power have a bias to action.  So they want to fix, the initial instinct is to fix...unless they view the problem as something not of their own.  Then, they want to hammer it out of existence.

It's a shame.  I've watched and enjoyed the band since I was a small child, in the 1960s.  For me, as an outsider, it is one of the indescribably unique defining elements of Stanford University.  It exists here like nothing else.  It's one of a hundred things that separates Stanford from Chicago and Dartmouth and Harvard and Duke and on and on.

It's too bad that the "destroy" instinct is kicking in.

[Mick]

Fix vs. Destroy. 

The eternal question when people don't like something in their lives.  And people of power have a bias to action.  So they want to fix, the initial instinct is to fix...unless they view the problem as something not of their own.  Then, they want to hammer it out of existence.

It's a shame.  I've watched and enjoyed the band since I was a small child, in the 1960s.  For me, as an outsider, it is one of the indescribably unique defining elements of Stanford University.  It exists here like nothing else.  It's one of a hundred things that separates Stanford from Chicago and Dartmouth and Harvard and Duke and on and on.

It's too bad that the "destroy" instinct is kicking in.