[81alum]

Much has been said about Oregon's team speed.  I remember the win two years ago--having Oregon play on grass definitely slows them somewhat.  And I remember sadly the loss last year.  But in both games our defense looked terrible at times against Oregon speed.

Is there any consensus on how our defense should play to keep Oregon's scoring down to a tolerable level, or do we simply have to score nearly every time we get the ball? 

[81alum]

Much has been said about Oregon's team speed.  I remember the win two years ago--having Oregon play on grass definitely slows them somewhat.  And I remember sadly the loss last year.  But in both games our defense looked terrible at times against Oregon speed.

Is there any consensus on how our defense should play to keep Oregon's scoring down to a tolerable level, or do we simply have to score nearly every time we get the ball? 

[Roberton3]

There are lots of things, but the general theme would be to prevent big plays.  If you make Oregon gain 5 yards at at time, they'll struggle.  Their offense doesn't have the consistency to put together a 15-play drive without making a mistake at some point.  And their offense -- like spread offenses in general -- is less effective in the red zone.  So the big plays are really key for them.  Of course, preventing Oregon from getting big plays is much easier said than done...

[Roberton3]

There are lots of things, but the general theme would be to prevent big plays.  If you make Oregon gain 5 yards at at time, they'll struggle.  Their offense doesn't have the consistency to put together a 15-play drive without making a mistake at some point.  And their offense -- like spread offenses in general -- is less effective in the red zone.  So the big plays are really key for them.  Of course, preventing Oregon from getting big plays is much easier said than done...

[washingtonismoney]

Contain well, play your assignments and don't overpursue (possibly a big problem there for us), and--best of all: disrupt them at line of scrimmage.

I was much more confident of the last point earlier in the season, but our d line has faded a bit (from awesome to just good, to be fair).

[washingtonismoney]

Contain well, play your assignments and don't overpursue (possibly a big problem there for us), and--best of all: disrupt them at line of scrimmage.

I was much more confident of the last point earlier in the season, but our d line has faded a bit (from awesome to just good, to be fair).

[stanfan]

Our D line isn't the problem.  The problem is poor tackling by the secondary and, to a lesser extent, the DB's.    I see real problems with explosion plays by the Ducks.

[stanfan]

Our D line isn't the problem.  The problem is poor tackling by the secondary and, to a lesser extent, the DB's.    I see real problems with explosion plays by the Ducks.

[fullmetal]

I remember Marecic failing to tackle LMJ in the red zone last year.  It's just hard to hang onto fast, big guys--if Owen had trouble, so much more so the rest of the D.  I don't think Oregon struggles at all in the red zone--they'll just run between the tackles with numbers at the point of attack.  Stanford has to clog the lanes.

[fullmetal]

I remember Marecic failing to tackle LMJ in the red zone last year.  It's just hard to hang onto fast, big guys--if Owen had trouble, so much more so the rest of the D.  I don't think Oregon struggles at all in the red zone--they'll just run between the tackles with numbers at the point of attack.  Stanford has to clog the lanes.

[yvonne]

the secondary and, to a lesser extent, the DB's. 

huh?

[yvonne]

the secondary and, to a lesser extent, the DB's. 

huh?

[Roberton3]

I remember Marecic failing to tackle LMJ in the red zone last year.  It's just hard to hang onto fast, big guys--if Owen had trouble, so much more so the rest of the D.  I don't think Oregon struggles at all in the red zone--they'll just run between the tackles with numbers at the point of attack.  Stanford has to clog the lanes.

LMJ isn't big: I think he weighs something like 180 lbs.  He's very fast and very shifty, which indeed make him extremely hard to tackle, but not especially big.

[Roberton3]

I remember Marecic failing to tackle LMJ in the red zone last year.  It's just hard to hang onto fast, big guys--if Owen had trouble, so much more so the rest of the D.  I don't think Oregon struggles at all in the red zone--they'll just run between the tackles with numbers at the point of attack.  Stanford has to clog the lanes.

LMJ isn't big: I think he weighs something like 180 lbs.  He's very fast and very shifty, which indeed make him extremely hard to tackle, but not especially big.

[Roberton3]

I remember Marecic failing to tackle LMJ in the red zone last year.  It's just hard to hang onto fast, big guys--if Owen had trouble, so much more so the rest of the D.  I don't think Oregon struggles at all in the red zone--they'll just run between the tackles with numbers at the point of attack.  Stanford has to clog the lanes.

Also, I just checked the stats, and Oregon is #5 in total scoring but #15 in red zone conversions.  So I was overstating things when I said they "struggle" in the red zone, but they're still clearly not as strong in the red zone as they are overall.

[Roberton3]

I remember Marecic failing to tackle LMJ in the red zone last year.  It's just hard to hang onto fast, big guys--if Owen had trouble, so much more so the rest of the D.  I don't think Oregon struggles at all in the red zone--they'll just run between the tackles with numbers at the point of attack.  Stanford has to clog the lanes.

Also, I just checked the stats, and Oregon is #5 in total scoring but #15 in red zone conversions.  So I was overstating things when I said they "struggle" in the red zone, but they're still clearly not as strong in the red zone as they are overall.

[pcgoode]

I haven't seen that much of the Ducks this season, but I don't think its a secret that they rely heavily on the no-huddle, high tempo offence to keep defences off-balance.  This to my mind was clearly an issue when the Card played them last year in Eugene, especially in the second half, when the Card front seven looked exhausted.  To counter, I think it will be important for the Card to establish their run game early so that they can grind out some long drives and give the defence a chance to rest and break up the rythm of the Duck offence.

A few other points, not relating directly to what tactics the Card need to employ to slow the Duck offence down:

1. Don't overlook the advantage of playing at home.  Last year in Eugene the crowd was deafening every time the Card offence took the field.  Not a problem this year.

2. Don't overlook the revenge factor.  If you look at the twitter posts of the Card players, they are consistently full of references to "revengeofthenerds" and the like, and I recall seeing one from Moose Martin a few weeks ago reminding his teamates of the anniversary of the loss to Orgeon.  These guys are incredibly fired up about this game.

3. This is clearly the toughest challenge they will face in getting to either New Orleans or Pasadena.  They know they will have to rise to the occassion, or their season will be a disappointment to them.

4. The Card have the best offence that the Ducks defence will see all season.  I think this matchup is where the Card wins the game - look for them to score close to 50 points. 

[pcgoode]

I haven't seen that much of the Ducks this season, but I don't think its a secret that they rely heavily on the no-huddle, high tempo offence to keep defences off-balance.  This to my mind was clearly an issue when the Card played them last year in Eugene, especially in the second half, when the Card front seven looked exhausted.  To counter, I think it will be important for the Card to establish their run game early so that they can grind out some long drives and give the defence a chance to rest and break up the rythm of the Duck offence.

A few other points, not relating directly to what tactics the Card need to employ to slow the Duck offence down:

1. Don't overlook the advantage of playing at home.  Last year in Eugene the crowd was deafening every time the Card offence took the field.  Not a problem this year.

2. Don't overlook the revenge factor.  If you look at the twitter posts of the Card players, they are consistently full of references to "revengeofthenerds" and the like, and I recall seeing one from Moose Martin a few weeks ago reminding his teamates of the anniversary of the loss to Orgeon.  These guys are incredibly fired up about this game.

3. This is clearly the toughest challenge they will face in getting to either New Orleans or Pasadena.  They know they will have to rise to the occassion, or their season will be a disappointment to them.

4. The Card have the best offence that the Ducks defence will see all season.  I think this matchup is where the Card wins the game - look for them to score close to 50 points. 

[OutsiderFan]

Stanford is #3 against the rush.  Oregon is #58.

That is a pretty key stat.  Stanford should play lots of man/press coverage and 8 man fronts on 1st down.  Oregon will throw a lot of down the line screens, so have to get physical with their WRs.  The good news is Stanford has tall corners with long arms, and Bademosi is really physical, so he should fair well in press coverage with Oregon WRs.

The only teams to run for anything meaningful against Stanford were UW and USC and they have the best QB/WR combos Stanford will face all year.  Stop the run at all costs, and make Thomas into a pocket passer. 

Most importantly, don't let Oregon hold!  They hold all the time and are rarely called for it.  Don't let their blockers get their hands on your shoulder pads and jersey neck, tell the officials to watch for holding before the game, and scream to them about being held all game long.

[OutsiderFan]

Stanford is #3 against the rush.  Oregon is #58.

That is a pretty key stat.  Stanford should play lots of man/press coverage and 8 man fronts on 1st down.  Oregon will throw a lot of down the line screens, so have to get physical with their WRs.  The good news is Stanford has tall corners with long arms, and Bademosi is really physical, so he should fair well in press coverage with Oregon WRs.

The only teams to run for anything meaningful against Stanford were UW and USC and they have the best QB/WR combos Stanford will face all year.  Stop the run at all costs, and make Thomas into a pocket passer. 

Most importantly, don't let Oregon hold!  They hold all the time and are rarely called for it.  Don't let their blockers get their hands on your shoulder pads and jersey neck, tell the officials to watch for holding before the game, and scream to them about being held all game long.

[oman]

Our D line isn't the problem.  The problem is poor tackling by the secondary and, to a lesser extent, the DB's.    I see real problems with explosion plays by the Ducks.

Yeah, this is how I see it too.

[oman]

Our D line isn't the problem.  The problem is poor tackling by the secondary and, to a lesser extent, the DB's.    I see real problems with explosion plays by the Ducks.

Yeah, this is how I see it too.

[FarmBoy]

IMO, the key to winning the game will be long, sustained drives by the Stanford offense. Last year, we were almost victims of our own success. By scoring so quickly, the Oregon D was never tired out and the Stanford D didn't get as much recovery time as they normally would. We also need to remain balanced on offense. We can't rely too heavily on the pass, especially without Owusu and Ertz. Which means we can't fall behind big early. If we get behind 14-0, which can happen real fast against Oregon, we'll be in trouble, but I would still hope that Shah keeps the offense balanced.

The optimist in my sees a home game, lead by a dominating offensive line, and the greatest QB in the country. The pessimist in me sees a defense that is inconsistent (gives up big plays but also stuffs the run) and an offense that just isn't clicking with the precision of last year.

[FarmBoy]

IMO, the key to winning the game will be long, sustained drives by the Stanford offense. Last year, we were almost victims of our own success. By scoring so quickly, the Oregon D was never tired out and the Stanford D didn't get as much recovery time as they normally would. We also need to remain balanced on offense. We can't rely too heavily on the pass, especially without Owusu and Ertz. Which means we can't fall behind big early. If we get behind 14-0, which can happen real fast against Oregon, we'll be in trouble, but I would still hope that Shah keeps the offense balanced.

The optimist in my sees a home game, lead by a dominating offensive line, and the greatest QB in the country. The pessimist in me sees a defense that is inconsistent (gives up big plays but also stuffs the run) and an offense that just isn't clicking with the precision of last year.

[81alum]

Here are some specific questions based on what some of you have said so far:

1) I am all for "stopping the big play" but how do we do that?  I have no idea how a defensive coordinator actually gameplans for this, other than playing a prevent defense.  Do we move safeties back, play in the nickel the whole game, what?  Do we have enough healthy defensive backs to implement such a strategy?

2) I've never played football but I'm an enthusiastic watcher.  I hear people talk about "gap coverage" and not "overpursuing" when playing against the spread.  What does this mean exactly? 

3) How have the two SEC schools that have defeated Oregon recently done it, and can we do likewise or do we lack the personnel to do what they did?  For that matter, what did UC East Bay do to them last year?  Any instructive examples?

4) One answer to my initial question was to play ball-control.  But how can we do that if Oregon just sells out everything to stop the run?  Perhaps they think "So what if we give up a up a few long passing touchdowns--it would prevent Stanford from eating clock with long drives, and if they are too stubborn about ball control we might even force a few punts."  I get the impression that a number of  teams win time-of-possession against Oregon and still get clobbered. 

[81alum]

Here are some specific questions based on what some of you have said so far:

1) I am all for "stopping the big play" but how do we do that?  I have no idea how a defensive coordinator actually gameplans for this, other than playing a prevent defense.  Do we move safeties back, play in the nickel the whole game, what?  Do we have enough healthy defensive backs to implement such a strategy?

2) I've never played football but I'm an enthusiastic watcher.  I hear people talk about "gap coverage" and not "overpursuing" when playing against the spread.  What does this mean exactly? 

3) How have the two SEC schools that have defeated Oregon recently done it, and can we do likewise or do we lack the personnel to do what they did?  For that matter, what did UC East Bay do to them last year?  Any instructive examples?

4) One answer to my initial question was to play ball-control.  But how can we do that if Oregon just sells out everything to stop the run?  Perhaps they think "So what if we give up a up a few long passing touchdowns--it would prevent Stanford from eating clock with long drives, and if they are too stubborn about ball control we might even force a few punts."  I get the impression that a number of  teams win time-of-possession against Oregon and still get clobbered. 

[washingtonismoney]

2) I've never played football but I'm an enthusiastic watcher.  I hear people talk about "gap coverage" and not "overpursuing" when playing against the spread.  What does this mean exactly? 

3) How have the two SEC schools that have defeated Oregon recently done it, and can we do likewise or do we lack the personnel to do what they did?  For that matter, what did UC East Bay do to them last year?  Any instructive examples?

2) When you play option football--as Oregon does--the idea is to punish defenders from fighting too enthusiastically to get to the ball. Instead, to be successful, you have to have defenders religiously patrolling each gap (in the offensive line) just in case something happens. That said, Oregon appears (based on casual viewing) to have lessened its reliance on its option stuff, meaning that it's more just, you know, speed that's the problem.

3) Well, the SEC schools had three things in common:
1) a dominant defensive line relative to the opposition: you can't fool anyone or use your speed if you get tackled a split second after snapping the ball. Auburn and LSU have dominant defensive lines that overpowered Oregon's light offensive linemen; if Oregon ever got on a roll, perhaps it would've been able to exhaust them. Playing against Oregon was the media hype of each game--more hype, more commercials, more resting time. I'm guessing Stanford/Oregon will have plenty of commercials relative to previous matchups against them.

2) They made Darron Thomas into a passer. Darron Thomas is a fine quarterback within the system, but he's not a playmaker--he's a guy who is very good at converting the opportunities presented to him by Mssrs. James, Thomas (DeAnthony), et. al. Thomas threw 54 passes against LSU and 40 against Auburn; the offense in general "wants" Thomas to throw the ball in the high teens or low twenties (this year) or in the high teens to low thirties (last year). Additionally, Oregon's wideouts are significantly less dynamic and productive without Jeff Maehl; like us they have very good running back and TE options.

3) They had time to prepare. Chip Kelly has been at Oregon, as a head coach, since 2009. Since then, he's lost five games. In all five of those games, his opponent has had a week or more to prepare for the matchup.

[washingtonismoney]

2) I've never played football but I'm an enthusiastic watcher.  I hear people talk about "gap coverage" and not "overpursuing" when playing against the spread.  What does this mean exactly? 

3) How have the two SEC schools that have defeated Oregon recently done it, and can we do likewise or do we lack the personnel to do what they did?  For that matter, what did UC East Bay do to them last year?  Any instructive examples?

2) When you play option football--as Oregon does--the idea is to punish defenders from fighting too enthusiastically to get to the ball. Instead, to be successful, you have to have defenders religiously patrolling each gap (in the offensive line) just in case something happens. That said, Oregon appears (based on casual viewing) to have lessened its reliance on its option stuff, meaning that it's more just, you know, speed that's the problem.

3) Well, the SEC schools had three things in common:
1) a dominant defensive line relative to the opposition: you can't fool anyone or use your speed if you get tackled a split second after snapping the ball. Auburn and LSU have dominant defensive lines that overpowered Oregon's light offensive linemen; if Oregon ever got on a roll, perhaps it would've been able to exhaust them. Playing against Oregon was the media hype of each game--more hype, more commercials, more resting time. I'm guessing Stanford/Oregon will have plenty of commercials relative to previous matchups against them.

2) They made Darron Thomas into a passer. Darron Thomas is a fine quarterback within the system, but he's not a playmaker--he's a guy who is very good at converting the opportunities presented to him by Mssrs. James, Thomas (DeAnthony), et. al. Thomas threw 54 passes against LSU and 40 against Auburn; the offense in general "wants" Thomas to throw the ball in the high teens or low twenties (this year) or in the high teens to low thirties (last year). Additionally, Oregon's wideouts are significantly less dynamic and productive without Jeff Maehl; like us they have very good running back and TE options.

3) They had time to prepare. Chip Kelly has been at Oregon, as a head coach, since 2009. Since then, he's lost five games. In all five of those games, his opponent has had a week or more to prepare for the matchup.

[fullmetal]

Most importantly, don't let Oregon hold!  They hold all the time and are rarely called for it.  Don't let their blockers get their hands on your shoulder pads and jersey neck, tell the officials to watch for holding before the game, and scream to them about being held all game long.

This.  But how do we find fair officiating if we haven't had it all year long?

[fullmetal]

Most importantly, don't let Oregon hold!  They hold all the time and are rarely called for it.  Don't let their blockers get their hands on your shoulder pads and jersey neck, tell the officials to watch for holding before the game, and scream to them about being held all game long.

This.  But how do we find fair officiating if we haven't had it all year long?

[Farm93]

3) They had time to prepare. Chip Kelly has been at Oregon, as a head coach, since 2009. Since then, he's lost five games. In all five of those games, his opponent has had a week or more to prepare for the matchup.

The Staff will never admit it, but I would guess that Stanford has spent more than a week preparing for this game and this opponent.  I would not be shocked at all if the sub-par performance versus OSU was a direct result of a few too many on the staff planning for Oregon.  It seems quite clear that a few key players were held out of the OSU game to get healthier for Oregon.

The team was not sitting around watching TV on Saturday, but I believe Stanford will be ready for Oregon.

And this 'Bama rematch talk consuming all of the media outlets is probably a blessing for Stanford.  Oregon now has absolutely no chance to be in the BCS game which has to be demoralizing.  And Stanford is not burdened with playing as BCS #2.  (yet!)

[Farm93]

3) They had time to prepare. Chip Kelly has been at Oregon, as a head coach, since 2009. Since then, he's lost five games. In all five of those games, his opponent has had a week or more to prepare for the matchup.

The Staff will never admit it, but I would guess that Stanford has spent more than a week preparing for this game and this opponent.  I would not be shocked at all if the sub-par performance versus OSU was a direct result of a few too many on the staff planning for Oregon.  It seems quite clear that a few key players were held out of the OSU game to get healthier for Oregon.

The team was not sitting around watching TV on Saturday, but I believe Stanford will be ready for Oregon.

And this 'Bama rematch talk consuming all of the media outlets is probably a blessing for Stanford.  Oregon now has absolutely no chance to be in the BCS game which has to be demoralizing.  And Stanford is not burdened with playing as BCS #2.  (yet!)

[Griffins78]

This.  But how do we find fair officiating if we haven't had it all year long?

For many of our games we probably did not have the best officiating crew in the Pac-12. I fairly certain that for this game we will have the best. That's about as much as we can ask for.

[Griffins78]

This.  But how do we find fair officiating if we haven't had it all year long?

For many of our games we probably did not have the best officiating crew in the Pac-12. I fairly certain that for this game we will have the best. That's about as much as we can ask for.

[OutsiderFan]

[quote author=OutsiderFan link=topic=4847.msg34701#msg34701 date=1320695471]Most importantly, don't let Oregon hold!  They hold all the time and are rarely called for it.  Don't let their blockers get their hands on your shoulder pads and jersey neck, tell the officials to watch for holding before the game, and scream to them about being held all game long.

This.  But how do we find fair officiating if we haven't had it all year long?
[/quote]

I don't think it was a real big concern in other games Stanford has played, though Oregon State certainly got away with a lot.  I think David Shaw needs to call the Pac-12 office and put them on alert, and really drive into his defensive players that Oregon holds a lot.  Even tell them his guys are going to hold on defense if Oregon is allowed to hold with impunity.

The biggest key to avoid being held as a defender is to attack the blockers, and as Bill Walsh said, beat them to the punch.  That means don't let the offensive line, TEs and WRs get their hands on you first.  Since Oregon holds so much and is good at it, Stanford defenders have to be really committed to getting their hands on Oregon blockers first, if at all possible.  Hold them before they hold you, basically.

You particularly have to watch for their TEs holding the OLBs in the 3-4.  Oregon really hurt California by holding on outside runs.

[OutsiderFan]

[quote author=OutsiderFan link=topic=4847.msg34701#msg34701 date=1320695471]Most importantly, don't let Oregon hold!  They hold all the time and are rarely called for it.  Don't let their blockers get their hands on your shoulder pads and jersey neck, tell the officials to watch for holding before the game, and scream to them about being held all game long.

This.  But how do we find fair officiating if we haven't had it all year long?
[/quote]

I don't think it was a real big concern in other games Stanford has played, though Oregon State certainly got away with a lot.  I think David Shaw needs to call the Pac-12 office and put them on alert, and really drive into his defensive players that Oregon holds a lot.  Even tell them his guys are going to hold on defense if Oregon is allowed to hold with impunity.

The biggest key to avoid being held as a defender is to attack the blockers, and as Bill Walsh said, beat them to the punch.  That means don't let the offensive line, TEs and WRs get their hands on you first.  Since Oregon holds so much and is good at it, Stanford defenders have to be really committed to getting their hands on Oregon blockers first, if at all possible.  Hold them before they hold you, basically.

You particularly have to watch for their TEs holding the OLBs in the 3-4.  Oregon really hurt California by holding on outside runs.

[Griffins78]

Oregon definitely holds a lot and so did SC. It doesn't take much of a hold on the outside to allow a quick back to make the corner. In the end - we cannot depend on the officiating. We have to play through it and keep them corralled.

[Griffins78]

Oregon definitely holds a lot and so did SC. It doesn't take much of a hold on the outside to allow a quick back to make the corner. In the end - we cannot depend on the officiating. We have to play through it and keep them corralled.

[bulldogbigred]

Most of the keys to winning are fairly basic. No arm tackling, meaning do not get in a position, that puts you out of position of making the tackle. I think our DBs can't play in a deep third of the receivers, we have to attack them and not wait for them to catch the ball and make a move. I believe our offense will not have a problem against the Ducks' D, but we have to make 2nd half adjustments.

We also have to watch for those screens. Whenever we send the blitz to get the QB, a lot of the times it seems that the halfback slips behind those rushers and bloop. A little screen pass and the only guys that can catch him are back in the secondary. If we were to blitz leave a linebacker to two to cover the LMJ, at ALL times.

[bulldogbigred]

Most of the keys to winning are fairly basic. No arm tackling, meaning do not get in a position, that puts you out of position of making the tackle. I think our DBs can't play in a deep third of the receivers, we have to attack them and not wait for them to catch the ball and make a move. I believe our offense will not have a problem against the Ducks' D, but we have to make 2nd half adjustments.

We also have to watch for those screens. Whenever we send the blitz to get the QB, a lot of the times it seems that the halfback slips behind those rushers and bloop. A little screen pass and the only guys that can catch him are back in the secondary. If we were to blitz leave a linebacker to two to cover the LMJ, at ALL times.