[JJJ]

Only because he was a fan favorite in the Bay Area at one time. (Nice work if you can get it.)

Cutting an underperforming player isn’t necessarily news, even when the Red Sox do it. But it is news because the Red Sox signed Sandoval to a five-year, $95 million contract at the end of 2014. Just halfway through the deal, the Red Sox have decided that it’s better to move on without Sandoval. But even though they’re moving on, the team is still on the hook for the remainder of his contract. They’ll have to pay the rest of his $17.6 million salary for 2017, and the combined $37.2 million he’s owed for 2018 and 2019. There’s also a $5 million buyout for 2020.

https://sports.yahoo.com/pablo-sandoval-...Redirect=1

[JJJ]

Only because he was a fan favorite in the Bay Area at one time. (Nice work if you can get it.)

Cutting an underperforming player isn’t necessarily news, even when the Red Sox do it. But it is news because the Red Sox signed Sandoval to a five-year, $95 million contract at the end of 2014. Just halfway through the deal, the Red Sox have decided that it’s better to move on without Sandoval. But even though they’re moving on, the team is still on the hook for the remainder of his contract. They’ll have to pay the rest of his $17.6 million salary for 2017, and the combined $37.2 million he’s owed for 2018 and 2019. There’s also a $5 million buyout for 2020.

https://sports.yahoo.com/pablo-sandoval-...Redirect=1

[OutsiderFan]

The Giants were lucky they didn't sign him after the 2014 World Series win, but the reality is they would have signed Panda had he wanted to stay in San Francisco.  They even offered him more money.  I wonder if he had to do it over again, if Sandoval would have signed with the Giants, because his career imploded in Boston.  He said he signed with Boston because Brian Sabean disrespected his agent, but that seems like a silly reason to make for your own career.

The Giants way overvalue their guys, probably more than any team in MLB.  They are doing it right now, as Sabean in a recent interview said people shouldn't necessarily assume they (of the 2nd worst record in MLB currently, and the worst since the 2016 All-Star break) will be "sellers" as the trade deadline approaches. 

Happy to discuss more Giants if anyone here wants to talk about them...

[OutsiderFan]

The Giants were lucky they didn't sign him after the 2014 World Series win, but the reality is they would have signed Panda had he wanted to stay in San Francisco.  They even offered him more money.  I wonder if he had to do it over again, if Sandoval would have signed with the Giants, because his career imploded in Boston.  He said he signed with Boston because Brian Sabean disrespected his agent, but that seems like a silly reason to make for your own career.

The Giants way overvalue their guys, probably more than any team in MLB.  They are doing it right now, as Sabean in a recent interview said people shouldn't necessarily assume they (of the 2nd worst record in MLB currently, and the worst since the 2016 All-Star break) will be "sellers" as the trade deadline approaches. 

Happy to discuss more Giants if anyone here wants to talk about them...

[pefloresjr]

I always thought Pablo took less money from Boston because he was tired of being closely monitored on his weight.  (I think managing his weight was part of the deal with the Giants.)  He seemed to think that he would be able to get by on his hitting talent regardless of his weight and that he would be able to just be a pinch hitter in the American League.  The injuries, weight, underwhelming hitting performance, and brutal Boston media all combined to make his switch to Boston one of the worst failures I've ever seen.  It's too bad.  He had developed a true fan following here and I think he would have performed better here than in Boston.  However, I am glad the Giants didn't sign him because I thought they were paying too much and I had lost my faith in Pablo's discipline and commitment. 

Cheers,
Pete F. 

[pefloresjr]

I always thought Pablo took less money from Boston because he was tired of being closely monitored on his weight.  (I think managing his weight was part of the deal with the Giants.)  He seemed to think that he would be able to get by on his hitting talent regardless of his weight and that he would be able to just be a pinch hitter in the American League.  The injuries, weight, underwhelming hitting performance, and brutal Boston media all combined to make his switch to Boston one of the worst failures I've ever seen.  It's too bad.  He had developed a true fan following here and I think he would have performed better here than in Boston.  However, I am glad the Giants didn't sign him because I thought they were paying too much and I had lost my faith in Pablo's discipline and commitment. 

Cheers,
Pete F. 

[Phogge]

Heard that Bartolo Colon is now dead broke after earning millions in his career. Sandoval is facing possible diabetes, heart disease, sleep apnea and massive arthritis in his life. He may need the money for more than rice and beans, the favorite that his momma has always prepared for him. Great natural left handed hitter now a wreck. Sad.

[Phogge]

Heard that Bartolo Colon is now dead broke after earning millions in his career. Sandoval is facing possible diabetes, heart disease, sleep apnea and massive arthritis in his life. He may need the money for more than rice and beans, the favorite that his momma has always prepared for him. Great natural left handed hitter now a wreck. Sad.

[BrevinsBest]

I've been a life-long Giants fan, and am always happy to discuss all things Giants. I went down to the SJ Giants game last Wednesday to see Mad Bum give up 4 homers. Didn't expect that, but it's pretty indicative of the season.

Sports contracts, baseball in particular, seem to reward past performance, not future. I think the Giants are one of the worst followers of this strategy (see Rowand, A. and Zito, B.). They got really lucky that Pablo signed in Boston, but Pablo may have done a bit better if he stayed in the Bay Area. Sports figures have it pretty easy with the press here.

Going to Boston was a horrible decision from the onset, even if it meant him making a few extra dollars, which may not have even been the case.

I don't see the Giants doing a big rebuild this year. Maybe they'll trade Cueto, Nunez and a reliever or two. It's too bad Slater and Parker got hurt. Would have been nice to see them play a bit more this year.

[BrevinsBest]

I've been a life-long Giants fan, and am always happy to discuss all things Giants. I went down to the SJ Giants game last Wednesday to see Mad Bum give up 4 homers. Didn't expect that, but it's pretty indicative of the season.

Sports contracts, baseball in particular, seem to reward past performance, not future. I think the Giants are one of the worst followers of this strategy (see Rowand, A. and Zito, B.). They got really lucky that Pablo signed in Boston, but Pablo may have done a bit better if he stayed in the Bay Area. Sports figures have it pretty easy with the press here.

Going to Boston was a horrible decision from the onset, even if it meant him making a few extra dollars, which may not have even been the case.

I don't see the Giants doing a big rebuild this year. Maybe they'll trade Cueto, Nunez and a reliever or two. It's too bad Slater and Parker got hurt. Would have been nice to see them play a bit more this year.

[Mick]

I always thought Pablo took less money from Boston because he was tired of being closely monitored on his weight.  (I think managing his weight was part of the deal with the Giants.)  He seemed to think that he would be able to get by on his hitting talent regardless of his weight and that he would be able to just be a pinch hitter in the American League.  The injuries, weight, underwhelming hitting performance, and brutal Boston media all combined to make his switch to Boston one of the worst failures I've ever seen.  It's too bad.  He had developed a true fan following here and I think he would have performed better here than in Boston.  However, I am glad the Giants didn't sign him because I thought they were paying too much and I had lost my faith in Pablo's discipline and commitment. 

Cheers,
Pete F.

Totally agree with everything you said.  I believe weight monitoring was part of the Giants offer, and that it was non-negotiable.  For a guy headed towards nose-tackle-weight territory, that was too much to swallow.

[Mick]

I always thought Pablo took less money from Boston because he was tired of being closely monitored on his weight.  (I think managing his weight was part of the deal with the Giants.)  He seemed to think that he would be able to get by on his hitting talent regardless of his weight and that he would be able to just be a pinch hitter in the American League.  The injuries, weight, underwhelming hitting performance, and brutal Boston media all combined to make his switch to Boston one of the worst failures I've ever seen.  It's too bad.  He had developed a true fan following here and I think he would have performed better here than in Boston.  However, I am glad the Giants didn't sign him because I thought they were paying too much and I had lost my faith in Pablo's discipline and commitment. 

Cheers,
Pete F.

Totally agree with everything you said.  I believe weight monitoring was part of the Giants offer, and that it was non-negotiable.  For a guy headed towards nose-tackle-weight territory, that was too much to swallow.

[OutsiderFan]

This interview with Brian Sabean, while I appreciate its apparent transparency, leaves me wondering what exactly the plan is.  http://www.mercurynews.com/2017/07/11/qa...ow-to-win/

When I last looked, every single Giants team from the MLB club all the way down to Low A, was in last place in their league.  Sabean talks about the key to success being a team that scores 4 runs per game as if that is the goal of the organization.  Does any other team in MLB think this way? He seems to lament how hard it is to develop guys who can really hit, and then points out the lack of athleticism of the players in the Giants' system.  Then he goes on to say Crawford, Posey, and Bumgarner are untradable, but then adds that nobody should assume the Giants will be sellers at the trade deadline.

A Giants friend of mine discussed this topic recently and he said the Giants draft guys who produce in high school or college, that they don't pick guys based on pure athleticism and upside, that they can maybe develop into players.  I don't know if this is true, but the evidence certainly suggests this is the case.

Why not draft guys who can hit the ball 500 ft or run like gazelles, who maybe don't have great power numbers or averages, and then coach them up? Why not draft guys who can throw 100 MPH or have maybe a devastating slider, but have high ERAs and/or bad walk to K ratios?  At least take flyers on athleticism and upside with 50% of your picks?  I don't get it.  Drafts are about getting guys with high upside.

It's a different sport, but look at a guy like Dillon Brooks in college hoops.  One of the most productive college players, but the NBA didn't draft him until the 45th selection because though he was tremendously productive in NCAA hoops, there was a lot of skepticism that his game would translate to the NBA level.  Now he looks good in the Summer League, but it is Summer League, and it remains to be seen if he can make it in the NBA.  Guys were drafted higher than him who haven't produced as much, but are better athletes more more upside at the NBA level.  The Giants' philosophy would draft Brooks in the first round.  Doesn't seem all that wise.

[OutsiderFan]

This interview with Brian Sabean, while I appreciate its apparent transparency, leaves me wondering what exactly the plan is.  http://www.mercurynews.com/2017/07/11/qa...ow-to-win/

When I last looked, every single Giants team from the MLB club all the way down to Low A, was in last place in their league.  Sabean talks about the key to success being a team that scores 4 runs per game as if that is the goal of the organization.  Does any other team in MLB think this way? He seems to lament how hard it is to develop guys who can really hit, and then points out the lack of athleticism of the players in the Giants' system.  Then he goes on to say Crawford, Posey, and Bumgarner are untradable, but then adds that nobody should assume the Giants will be sellers at the trade deadline.

A Giants friend of mine discussed this topic recently and he said the Giants draft guys who produce in high school or college, that they don't pick guys based on pure athleticism and upside, that they can maybe develop into players.  I don't know if this is true, but the evidence certainly suggests this is the case.

Why not draft guys who can hit the ball 500 ft or run like gazelles, who maybe don't have great power numbers or averages, and then coach them up? Why not draft guys who can throw 100 MPH or have maybe a devastating slider, but have high ERAs and/or bad walk to K ratios?  At least take flyers on athleticism and upside with 50% of your picks?  I don't get it.  Drafts are about getting guys with high upside.

It's a different sport, but look at a guy like Dillon Brooks in college hoops.  One of the most productive college players, but the NBA didn't draft him until the 45th selection because though he was tremendously productive in NCAA hoops, there was a lot of skepticism that his game would translate to the NBA level.  Now he looks good in the Summer League, but it is Summer League, and it remains to be seen if he can make it in the NBA.  Guys were drafted higher than him who haven't produced as much, but are better athletes more more upside at the NBA level.  The Giants' philosophy would draft Brooks in the first round.  Doesn't seem all that wise.

[Phogge]

Interesting OF. A bit different from the Giants way of doing business in the 50's and 60's when they had one of the great scouting corps in history. Think of the players in the organization in 1958. Three future All Stars at first base: Cepeda, McCovey and White. OF: Mays, Kirkland, Wagner, Cardenal, Brandt, Felipe. Alex Pompez owned the Caribbean and signed the brothers and Marichal. Their main whiff was signing pitchers and made a brobdingnagian mistake on Garibaldi. They traded position guys for Antonelli, O' Dell and Sad Sam but blew good players on Jack Fisher, Billy Hoeft, Bob Shaw and Tom Bradley. Then they imploded in the early 70's and lost Maddox, Matthews and Kingman when Horace ran out of cash.

[Phogge]

Interesting OF. A bit different from the Giants way of doing business in the 50's and 60's when they had one of the great scouting corps in history. Think of the players in the organization in 1958. Three future All Stars at first base: Cepeda, McCovey and White. OF: Mays, Kirkland, Wagner, Cardenal, Brandt, Felipe. Alex Pompez owned the Caribbean and signed the brothers and Marichal. Their main whiff was signing pitchers and made a brobdingnagian mistake on Garibaldi. They traded position guys for Antonelli, O' Dell and Sad Sam but blew good players on Jack Fisher, Billy Hoeft, Bob Shaw and Tom Bradley. Then they imploded in the early 70's and lost Maddox, Matthews and Kingman when Horace ran out of cash.

[Mick]

Interesting OF. A bit different from the Giants way of doing business in the 50's and 60's when they had one of the great scouting corps in history. Think of the players in the organization in 1958. Three future All Stars at first base: Cepeda, McCovey and White. OF: Mays, Kirkland, Wagner, Cardenal, Brandt, Felipe. Alex Pompez owned the Caribbean and signed the brothers and Marichal. Their main whiff was signing pitchers and made a of exceedingly large proportions mistake on Garibaldi. They traded position guys for Antonelli, O' Dell and Sad Sam but blew good players on Jack Fisher, Billy Hoeft, Bob Shaw and Tom Bradley. Then they imploded in the early 70's and lost Maddox, Matthews and Kingman when Horace ran out of cash.

They were actually first to recruit Henry Aaron, but the Braves paid him $50 per month more.  Could you imagine an outfield with Mays and Aaron?  It would have been like Gehrig and Ruth.

[Mick]

Interesting OF. A bit different from the Giants way of doing business in the 50's and 60's when they had one of the great scouting corps in history. Think of the players in the organization in 1958. Three future All Stars at first base: Cepeda, McCovey and White. OF: Mays, Kirkland, Wagner, Cardenal, Brandt, Felipe. Alex Pompez owned the Caribbean and signed the brothers and Marichal. Their main whiff was signing pitchers and made a of exceedingly large proportions mistake on Garibaldi. They traded position guys for Antonelli, O' Dell and Sad Sam but blew good players on Jack Fisher, Billy Hoeft, Bob Shaw and Tom Bradley. Then they imploded in the early 70's and lost Maddox, Matthews and Kingman when Horace ran out of cash.

They were actually first to recruit Henry Aaron, but the Braves paid him $50 per month more.  Could you imagine an outfield with Mays and Aaron?  It would have been like Gehrig and Ruth.

[BobK]

Actually their first draft choice Ramos is based on potential.

The term used was not untradeable.  😳  As in no one wants them

Sandoval was offered $40M for three years.  Very fair and prudent.    Signed for 5  and $95M. 

Our top prospect is Shaw ranked only 85 by BA.  Breede has an era of 5. 

While I want Melon head gone he's still hurt.  So now what ?

[BobK]

Actually their first draft choice Ramos is based on potential.

The term used was not untradeable.  😳  As in no one wants them

Sandoval was offered $40M for three years.  Very fair and prudent.    Signed for 5  and $95M. 

Our top prospect is Shaw ranked only 85 by BA.  Breede has an era of 5. 

While I want Melon head gone he's still hurt.  So now what ?

[81alum]

I follow the Giants but don't know a lot about their farm system, player development, etc.  Whatever else you say about them, they managed to win three world series in recent years, something they had not done even a single time since New York days.  So their management must have figured out something that worked.  Have to give them some credit.

[81alum]

I follow the Giants but don't know a lot about their farm system, player development, etc.  Whatever else you say about them, they managed to win three world series in recent years, something they had not done even a single time since New York days.  So their management must have figured out something that worked.  Have to give them some credit.

[Phogge]

Clemente was not protected by the Dodgers in 1953. Pirates drafted him off the non roster Dodge minors. Can you imagine Furillo, Snider and Clemente?

[Phogge]

Clemente was not protected by the Dodgers in 1953. Pirates drafted him off the non roster Dodge minors. Can you imagine Furillo, Snider and Clemente?

[OutsiderFan]

I follow the Giants but don't know a lot about their farm system, player development, etc.  Whatever else you say about them, they managed to win three world series in recent years, something they had not done even a single time since New York days.  So their management must have figured out something that worked.  Have to give them some credit.

Just because I didn't put in my post that they deserve credit for the three World Series trophies in the last seven years, it doesn't follow that I don't give them credit.  I do.  All I'm thinking about in the context of this thread is the state of affairs now, and what the future looks like.

Bob, yes, the Giants did use their first pick this year on the type of upside player they haven't taken that early in recent history. And it's only AZ rookie league, but, in 10 games and 40 ABs, 17 yo Heliot Ramos is hitting .425, with 5 2B, 3 3B, 2 HR, and 4 SB.  His 6 RBI with 17 hits and 7 for extra bases is low, but that says more about the other guys than him, it seems. 

[OutsiderFan]

I follow the Giants but don't know a lot about their farm system, player development, etc.  Whatever else you say about them, they managed to win three world series in recent years, something they had not done even a single time since New York days.  So their management must have figured out something that worked.  Have to give them some credit.

Just because I didn't put in my post that they deserve credit for the three World Series trophies in the last seven years, it doesn't follow that I don't give them credit.  I do.  All I'm thinking about in the context of this thread is the state of affairs now, and what the future looks like.

Bob, yes, the Giants did use their first pick this year on the type of upside player they haven't taken that early in recent history. And it's only AZ rookie league, but, in 10 games and 40 ABs, 17 yo Heliot Ramos is hitting .425, with 5 2B, 3 3B, 2 HR, and 4 SB.  His 6 RBI with 17 hits and 7 for extra bases is low, but that says more about the other guys than him, it seems. 

[OutsiderFan]

Hmm, look at this:
https://www.fanragsports.com/mlb/sf-gian...-question/

[OutsiderFan]

Hmm, look at this:
https://www.fanragsports.com/mlb/sf-gian...-question/

[BobK]

Not a chance.  lol I hope.    Still grateful for Panda in SF

[BobK]

Not a chance.  lol I hope.    Still grateful for Panda in SF

[Leftcoast]

One would think reading this thread that the current Giants management were complete idiots compared with past front office teams.  Well, except for those three World Series trophies ...  ::)

Personally, I believe Sabean took a mortgage out on the future to make play-off pushes during Buster Posey's prime years.  The bill has now come due and the farm team collateral isn't in place to spring for quick fixes. 

The Giants still have some good pieces to build around but no margin for error.  All their moves have to pay off to make another Posey era play-off push.  That's a tall order but if anyone can do it then it's the guy who put the team together that won those three trophies. 

Even if he doesn't do it this 40 year Giant fan will cut Sabean some slack.  I've endured years of ineptitude and looking up at the hated Dodgers in the final NL West standings so selling the near term future in order to win multiple titles seems a worthwhile exchange.

[Leftcoast]

One would think reading this thread that the current Giants management were complete idiots compared with past front office teams.  Well, except for those three World Series trophies ...  ::)

Personally, I believe Sabean took a mortgage out on the future to make play-off pushes during Buster Posey's prime years.  The bill has now come due and the farm team collateral isn't in place to spring for quick fixes. 

The Giants still have some good pieces to build around but no margin for error.  All their moves have to pay off to make another Posey era play-off push.  That's a tall order but if anyone can do it then it's the guy who put the team together that won those three trophies. 

Even if he doesn't do it this 40 year Giant fan will cut Sabean some slack.  I've endured years of ineptitude and looking up at the hated Dodgers in the final NL West standings so selling the near term future in order to win multiple titles seems a worthwhile exchange.

[Mick]

I've been a fan since 1970.  Three world championships means they get all the slack they want.

Also...I read that the Giants are interested in trading for Giancarlo Stanton and his $295 million contract, currently the largest in team sports:
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/27219...st-in-star

Stanton is 27 years old, four time all star, silver slugger winner, has hit 234 home runs, led the NL in slugging percentage twice, and is a California native (Notre Dame high school in Sherman Oaks).  Bats right, throws right, plays mainly right field, but can play left.  He should be entering his prime right now.  Come on home, big guy.

[Mick]

I've been a fan since 1970.  Three world championships means they get all the slack they want.

Also...I read that the Giants are interested in trading for Giancarlo Stanton and his $295 million contract, currently the largest in team sports:
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/27219...st-in-star

Stanton is 27 years old, four time all star, silver slugger winner, has hit 234 home runs, led the NL in slugging percentage twice, and is a California native (Notre Dame high school in Sherman Oaks).  Bats right, throws right, plays mainly right field, but can play left.  He should be entering his prime right now.  Come on home, big guy.

[OutsiderFan]

Hard for me to imagine what trade assets the Giants have that would get them Stanton, and they have virtually no top pitching prospects in their system, so...

[OutsiderFan]

Hard for me to imagine what trade assets the Giants have that would get them Stanton, and they have virtually no top pitching prospects in their system, so...

[Mick]

Hard for me to imagine what trade assets the Giants have that would get them Stanton, and they have virtually no top pitching prospects in their system, so...

So Arroyo.  And/or Crick.  Arroyo is superfluous anyway.

[Mick]

Hard for me to imagine what trade assets the Giants have that would get them Stanton, and they have virtually no top pitching prospects in their system, so...

So Arroyo.  And/or Crick.  Arroyo is superfluous anyway.

[Phogge]

The system needs warm bodies and not a superstar who soaks up mountains of cash.

[Phogge]

The system needs warm bodies and not a superstar who soaks up mountains of cash.