[OutsiderFan]

The only guy I am 100% confident will play as a True Frosh is WR/RB Connor Wedington.  There could be more, but I have read nothing that leads me to believe there are more.

Can anyone put together a "will redshirt" and "won't redshirt" list, based on training camp reports and/or their own observations?

[OutsiderFan]

The only guy I am 100% confident will play as a True Frosh is WR/RB Connor Wedington.  There could be more, but I have read nothing that leads me to believe there are more.

Can anyone put together a "will redshirt" and "won't redshirt" list, based on training camp reports and/or their own observations?

[JohnR34231]

This is just a guess on my part, but:

Definitely will play: Wedington, Sarell, Little
Might Play: St. Brown, Wade-Perry
Doubtful, but outside chance: Parkinson, Johnson
The rest will redshirt.

[JohnR34231]

This is just a guess on my part, but:

Definitely will play: Wedington, Sarell, Little
Might Play: St. Brown, Wade-Perry
Doubtful, but outside chance: Parkinson, Johnson
The rest will redshirt.

[Phogge]

Probably not Mills who will need three years sleeping with his playbook. 

[Phogge]

Probably not Mills who will need three years sleeping with his playbook. 

[kuz]

Will play: Wedington, Sarell, Little
Will likely play: St. Brown, Parkinson
Good chance: Adebo
Small chance: Lund
Redshirt: the rest

St. Brown is currently injured (hip pointer?) so it depends on how quickly he gets healthy. Parkinson is purely a flex tight end at his current size, but might be too good to keep off the field. Adebo could be special, but we're extremely deep at CB right now (Holder and Meeks starting, Murphy and Alexander with a ton of experience as backups, and Antoine pushing for playing time at nickel, let alone Eboh who has had positive reviews so far). Lund brings a special skill to the table as a power back, but will that be enough to burn his shirt? The alternative is some mix of Speights and Scarlett, neither of whom are close to Lund's size, or Marx, who is even larger but not as quick.

Of the rest, Mills is still recovering from injury, and we always redshirt QBs, even if they're Andrew Luck. DL always need time to get both the strength and the technique to play at the level required, and Johnson and Wade-Perry aren't there yet (in spite of Wade-Perry's size). Head needs to put on weight, and would probably only be special teams given we already have a solid two-deep at safety (Reid locking down one spot, Simmons currently holding off Buncom at the other, and Edwards hanging around too). Dalman obviously isn't needed yet at center, and Fisk is behind the other four scholarship TEs. The two kids returning from their mission will redshirt to get back up to speed.

[kuz]

Will play: Wedington, Sarell, Little
Will likely play: St. Brown, Parkinson
Good chance: Adebo
Small chance: Lund
Redshirt: the rest

St. Brown is currently injured (hip pointer?) so it depends on how quickly he gets healthy. Parkinson is purely a flex tight end at his current size, but might be too good to keep off the field. Adebo could be special, but we're extremely deep at CB right now (Holder and Meeks starting, Murphy and Alexander with a ton of experience as backups, and Antoine pushing for playing time at nickel, let alone Eboh who has had positive reviews so far). Lund brings a special skill to the table as a power back, but will that be enough to burn his shirt? The alternative is some mix of Speights and Scarlett, neither of whom are close to Lund's size, or Marx, who is even larger but not as quick.

Of the rest, Mills is still recovering from injury, and we always redshirt QBs, even if they're Andrew Luck. DL always need time to get both the strength and the technique to play at the level required, and Johnson and Wade-Perry aren't there yet (in spite of Wade-Perry's size). Head needs to put on weight, and would probably only be special teams given we already have a solid two-deep at safety (Reid locking down one spot, Simmons currently holding off Buncom at the other, and Edwards hanging around too). Dalman obviously isn't needed yet at center, and Fisk is behind the other four scholarship TEs. The two kids returning from their mission will redshirt to get back up to speed.

[JohnR34231]

I realize he would redshirt anyway, but is Mills still not over his injury? He said he could have carried on when he re-injured it in the state finals, but they kept him out for precautionary reasons. It's been eight months since then.

[JohnR34231]

I realize he would redshirt anyway, but is Mills still not over his injury? He said he could have carried on when he re-injured it in the state finals, but they kept him out for precautionary reasons. It's been eight months since then.

[AncientCityIndian]

Without yet reading anyone else`s opinions, I can confidently predict St. Brown, Little, Sarell and Wedington will not redshirt.  If Phillips or Jackson gets hurt, we might bring up Dalyn-Perry.  If Sione-Lund is our best short yardage back, he also will forfeit his redshirt.  If Parkinson has the best hands, speed and the most dangerous deep threat of all our TE`s, he will play.

4 certains, 1 probable (Sione-Lund), two possibles (Dalyn-Perry, Parkinson).

[AncientCityIndian]

Without yet reading anyone else`s opinions, I can confidently predict St. Brown, Little, Sarell and Wedington will not redshirt.  If Phillips or Jackson gets hurt, we might bring up Dalyn-Perry.  If Sione-Lund is our best short yardage back, he also will forfeit his redshirt.  If Parkinson has the best hands, speed and the most dangerous deep threat of all our TE`s, he will play.

4 certains, 1 probable (Sione-Lund), two possibles (Dalyn-Perry, Parkinson).

[SpokaneLee]

Probably not Mills who will need three years sleeping with his playbook.

Now, that's funny!

[SpokaneLee]

Probably not Mills who will need three years sleeping with his playbook.

Now, that's funny!

[Goose]

Without yet reading anyone else`s opinions, I can confidently predict St. Brown, Little, Sarell and Wedington will not redshirt.  If Phillips or Jackson gets hurt, we might bring up Dalyn-Perry.  If Sione-Lund is our best short yardage back, he also will forfeit his redshirt.  If Parkinson has the best hands, speed and the most dangerous deep threat of all our TE`s, he will play.

4 certains, 1 probable (Sione-Lund), two possibles (Dalyn-Perry, Parkinson).

Well, I admit that I have read the other posts. The consensus seems to be that both Little and Sarell will play this year, at least in some capacity. I wouldn't be amazed if that were the case, but, unlike a lot of others on the board, I am not so sure. Certainly, they have some ability. I think that the strategy adopted by the coaching staff will rest on these two elements: 1) How much do we need them? 2) Would either or both be available for an extra year if they did redshirt?
If one is virtually certain that both players will be gone after 3 years no matter when they actually start playing, there is no point in redshirting them. OTOH, if they don't get to play much, either because they are not ready or because we don't "need" them, there is no reason to play them. Hard to say ATM how the coaches will evaluate this situation.

[Goose]

Without yet reading anyone else`s opinions, I can confidently predict St. Brown, Little, Sarell and Wedington will not redshirt.  If Phillips or Jackson gets hurt, we might bring up Dalyn-Perry.  If Sione-Lund is our best short yardage back, he also will forfeit his redshirt.  If Parkinson has the best hands, speed and the most dangerous deep threat of all our TE`s, he will play.

4 certains, 1 probable (Sione-Lund), two possibles (Dalyn-Perry, Parkinson).

Well, I admit that I have read the other posts. The consensus seems to be that both Little and Sarell will play this year, at least in some capacity. I wouldn't be amazed if that were the case, but, unlike a lot of others on the board, I am not so sure. Certainly, they have some ability. I think that the strategy adopted by the coaching staff will rest on these two elements: 1) How much do we need them? 2) Would either or both be available for an extra year if they did redshirt?
If one is virtually certain that both players will be gone after 3 years no matter when they actually start playing, there is no point in redshirting them. OTOH, if they don't get to play much, either because they are not ready or because we don't "need" them, there is no reason to play them. Hard to say ATM how the coaches will evaluate this situation.

[JohnR34231]

[quote author=AncientCityIndian link=topic=17193.msg197465#msg197465 date=1503335407]
Without yet reading anyone else`s opinions, I can confidently predict St. Brown, Little, Sarell and Wedington will not redshirt.  If Phillips or Jackson gets hurt, we might bring up Dalyn-Perry.  If Sione-Lund is our best short yardage back, he also will forfeit his redshirt.  If Parkinson has the best hands, speed and the most dangerous deep threat of all our TE`s, he will play.

4 certains, 1 probable (Sione-Lund), two possibles (Dalyn-Perry, Parkinson).

Well, I admit that I have read the other posts. The consensus seems to be that both Little and Sarell will play this year, at least in some capacity. I wouldn't be amazed if that were the case, but, unlike a lot of others on the board, I am not so sure. Certainly, they have some ability. I think that the strategy adopted by the coaching staff will rest on these two elements: 1) How much do we need them? 2) Would either or both be available for an extra year if they did redshirt?
If one is virtually certain that both players will be gone after 3 years no matter when they actually start playing, there is no point in redshirting them. OTOH, if they don't get to play much, either because they are not ready or because we don't "need" them, there is no reason to play them. Hard to say ATM how the coaches will evaluate this situation.
[/quote]

Well, if Little and Sarell are anywhere close to as good as we have been led to believe, there is no way they are going to redshirt and then stick around for another four years until they have used up their eligibility. So we might as well play them this year and at least get them some experience for the future, even if we really don't "need" them. Frankly, I'll be a little surprised if they are around more than three, redshirt or no redshirt.

[JohnR34231]

[quote author=AncientCityIndian link=topic=17193.msg197465#msg197465 date=1503335407]
Without yet reading anyone else`s opinions, I can confidently predict St. Brown, Little, Sarell and Wedington will not redshirt.  If Phillips or Jackson gets hurt, we might bring up Dalyn-Perry.  If Sione-Lund is our best short yardage back, he also will forfeit his redshirt.  If Parkinson has the best hands, speed and the most dangerous deep threat of all our TE`s, he will play.

4 certains, 1 probable (Sione-Lund), two possibles (Dalyn-Perry, Parkinson).

Well, I admit that I have read the other posts. The consensus seems to be that both Little and Sarell will play this year, at least in some capacity. I wouldn't be amazed if that were the case, but, unlike a lot of others on the board, I am not so sure. Certainly, they have some ability. I think that the strategy adopted by the coaching staff will rest on these two elements: 1) How much do we need them? 2) Would either or both be available for an extra year if they did redshirt?
If one is virtually certain that both players will be gone after 3 years no matter when they actually start playing, there is no point in redshirting them. OTOH, if they don't get to play much, either because they are not ready or because we don't "need" them, there is no reason to play them. Hard to say ATM how the coaches will evaluate this situation.
[/quote]

Well, if Little and Sarell are anywhere close to as good as we have been led to believe, there is no way they are going to redshirt and then stick around for another four years until they have used up their eligibility. So we might as well play them this year and at least get them some experience for the future, even if we really don't "need" them. Frankly, I'll be a little surprised if they are around more than three, redshirt or no redshirt.

[Goose]

Well, if Little and Sarell are anywhere close to as good as we have been led to believe, there is no way they are going to redshirt and then stick around for another four years until they have used up their eligibility. So we might as well play them this year and at least get them some experience for the future, even if we really don't "need" them. Frankly, I'll be a little surprised if they are around more than three, redshirt or no redshirt.

That is really the question, will they stay only 3 years no matter what. If so, no reason to redshirt them. Unfortunately, it is probably pretty hard to know what will happen. Some really good linemen take a while to mature. No matter what one hears, there could be reasons that Little and/or Sarell just aren't ready this year. Only the coaches know the state of this calculation. I strongly suspect that under "normal" conditions, they wouldn't burn the redshirt until they felt the players in question were adequately up to speed. Thus, not playing against Rice means little regarding a redshirt. Playing does answer the question though ;D.

[Goose]

Well, if Little and Sarell are anywhere close to as good as we have been led to believe, there is no way they are going to redshirt and then stick around for another four years until they have used up their eligibility. So we might as well play them this year and at least get them some experience for the future, even if we really don't "need" them. Frankly, I'll be a little surprised if they are around more than three, redshirt or no redshirt.

That is really the question, will they stay only 3 years no matter what. If so, no reason to redshirt them. Unfortunately, it is probably pretty hard to know what will happen. Some really good linemen take a while to mature. No matter what one hears, there could be reasons that Little and/or Sarell just aren't ready this year. Only the coaches know the state of this calculation. I strongly suspect that under "normal" conditions, they wouldn't burn the redshirt until they felt the players in question were adequately up to speed. Thus, not playing against Rice means little regarding a redshirt. Playing does answer the question though ;D.

[CTcard]

Well, I admit that I have read the other posts. The consensus seems to be that both Little and Sarell will play this year, at least in some capacity. I wouldn't be amazed if that were the case, but, unlike a lot of others on the board, I am not so sure.

Through a combination of how I read our coaching staff and rumors I have heard, I would tend to agree with kuz down the line on who is likely to play or not.

We haven't brought in a lot of OL with the profile of Little and Sarrell (heck, there aren't a lot of OL with the profile of Little and Sarrell), but the last time we did seems like it might be a good blue print for the staff's thinking.

In 2012, all of Murphy, Peat, and Garnett played. None started for most of the season. Due to injuries, Murphy (2) and Garnett (1) started a couple of games. While Peat never got a start, I think he may have had more snaps than the other two (that's only by memory - may be off).
My expectation is to see Little and Sarrell in a similar role. If the starting tackles really struggle then there'll probably be some kind of shake up.

[CTcard]

Well, I admit that I have read the other posts. The consensus seems to be that both Little and Sarell will play this year, at least in some capacity. I wouldn't be amazed if that were the case, but, unlike a lot of others on the board, I am not so sure.

Through a combination of how I read our coaching staff and rumors I have heard, I would tend to agree with kuz down the line on who is likely to play or not.

We haven't brought in a lot of OL with the profile of Little and Sarrell (heck, there aren't a lot of OL with the profile of Little and Sarrell), but the last time we did seems like it might be a good blue print for the staff's thinking.

In 2012, all of Murphy, Peat, and Garnett played. None started for most of the season. Due to injuries, Murphy (2) and Garnett (1) started a couple of games. While Peat never got a start, I think he may have had more snaps than the other two (that's only by memory - may be off).
My expectation is to see Little and Sarrell in a similar role. If the starting tackles really struggle then there'll probably be some kind of shake up.

[Stymie]

A coach's reach should exceed his grasp, or what's a National Championship for? (pace, Robert Browning)

If Little and Sarrell and even Mills are as good as they might be, why shouldn't they get a chance to play?  Are they going to progress as well as they are able to if the only training they have is against players who are inferior to them in terms of talent and potential?  Did Tiger Woods and Michele Wie and John McEnroe and Katie Ledickey practice with the 2nd and 3rd teams in their first year?  Should Chinese Freshpeople have to prove their ability to speak Mandarin?  Did John Hennessey have to learn a playbook before being allowed to run a University?

Let a thousand flowers bloom. (Mao).

[Stymie]

A coach's reach should exceed his grasp, or what's a National Championship for? (pace, Robert Browning)

If Little and Sarrell and even Mills are as good as they might be, why shouldn't they get a chance to play?  Are they going to progress as well as they are able to if the only training they have is against players who are inferior to them in terms of talent and potential?  Did Tiger Woods and Michele Wie and John McEnroe and Katie Ledickey practice with the 2nd and 3rd teams in their first year?  Should Chinese Freshpeople have to prove their ability to speak Mandarin?  Did John Hennessey have to learn a playbook before being allowed to run a University?

Let a thousand flowers bloom. (Mao).

[terry]

The "Profiles" section of this week's game notes lists two freshmen -- Wedington and Parkinson.

http://www.gostanford.com/documents/2017...s_rice.pdf

[terry]

The "Profiles" section of this week's game notes lists two freshmen -- Wedington and Parkinson.

http://www.gostanford.com/documents/2017...s_rice.pdf

[CTcard]

If Little and Sarrell and even Mills are as good as they might be, why shouldn't they get a chance to play? 

Interesting phrase, "good as they might be"??

Chances are Little and Sarrell will play.
Mills cannot even practice fully right now, so it would seem exceedingly unlikely he'll play this year. If he does, it'll be because some very bad things have happened. 

Are they going to progress as well as they are able to if the only training they have is against players who are inferior to them in terms of talent and potential? 

It really depends upon exactly what it is that they most need to work on.

If they need to rebuild their bodies for strength, appearing in games won't be particularly helpful.

If they need to learn how to operate in the Stanford system, appearing in games at least wouldn't be the first thing they need to help them.

Even if playing time is what they most need to help themselves, the ultimate criterion is what helps the team most today. That might be playing the true frosh - might not.

Did Tiger Woods and Michele Wie and John McEnroe and Katie Ledickey practice with the 2nd and 3rd teams in their first year? 

Interestingly, you chose all individual sports people for this list. At least three of them practiced more against themselves than anyone first, second or third teams.

The Stanford version of Exhibit A for not redshirting is Andrew Luck. An interesting case. Of course everyone now thinks he should have played frosh year, I suspect even Harbaugh and Shaw.
However, I do wonder if he necessarily would have developed better by playing that season or not. And, I wonder if getting that season (2008) would have meant we didn't get 2011. These are unknowable things, of course.

Did John Hennessey have to learn a playbook before being allowed to run a University?

Actually yes.
He spent a redshirt year as Provost before being allowed to run a University as President.

[CTcard]

If Little and Sarrell and even Mills are as good as they might be, why shouldn't they get a chance to play? 

Interesting phrase, "good as they might be"??

Chances are Little and Sarrell will play.
Mills cannot even practice fully right now, so it would seem exceedingly unlikely he'll play this year. If he does, it'll be because some very bad things have happened. 

Are they going to progress as well as they are able to if the only training they have is against players who are inferior to them in terms of talent and potential? 

It really depends upon exactly what it is that they most need to work on.

If they need to rebuild their bodies for strength, appearing in games won't be particularly helpful.

If they need to learn how to operate in the Stanford system, appearing in games at least wouldn't be the first thing they need to help them.

Even if playing time is what they most need to help themselves, the ultimate criterion is what helps the team most today. That might be playing the true frosh - might not.

Did Tiger Woods and Michele Wie and John McEnroe and Katie Ledickey practice with the 2nd and 3rd teams in their first year? 

Interestingly, you chose all individual sports people for this list. At least three of them practiced more against themselves than anyone first, second or third teams.

The Stanford version of Exhibit A for not redshirting is Andrew Luck. An interesting case. Of course everyone now thinks he should have played frosh year, I suspect even Harbaugh and Shaw.
However, I do wonder if he necessarily would have developed better by playing that season or not. And, I wonder if getting that season (2008) would have meant we didn't get 2011. These are unknowable things, of course.

Did John Hennessey have to learn a playbook before being allowed to run a University?

Actually yes.
He spent a redshirt year as Provost before being allowed to run a University as President.

[Hurlburt88]

I also suspect Little and Sarrell will play.  Question:  Even if not ready for jumbo type plays this week, might they get action in FG protection given the space they occupy? 

[Hurlburt88]

I also suspect Little and Sarrell will play.  Question:  Even if not ready for jumbo type plays this week, might they get action in FG protection given the space they occupy? 

[Spiny_Norman]

The "Profiles" section of this week's game notes lists two freshmen -- Wedington and Parkinson.

http://www.gostanford.com/documents/2017...s_rice.pdf

You beat me to this point, Terry. I have been trying to find the published depth chart for this game.  I guess we can infer a depth chart from the players and the order in which they are listed. But we can also infer which true frosh made the trip to Australia.  Little and Sarell may not have made the travelling squad.

[Spiny_Norman]

The "Profiles" section of this week's game notes lists two freshmen -- Wedington and Parkinson.

http://www.gostanford.com/documents/2017...s_rice.pdf

You beat me to this point, Terry. I have been trying to find the published depth chart for this game.  I guess we can infer a depth chart from the players and the order in which they are listed. But we can also infer which true frosh made the trip to Australia.  Little and Sarell may not have made the travelling squad.

[BobK]

I understand every one travelled.    Would be quite an insult if not.  But I'm sure they did

[BobK]

I understand every one travelled.    Would be quite an insult if not.  But I'm sure they did

[CTcard]

I have been trying to find the published depth chart for this game.  I guess we can infer a depth chart from the players and the order in which they are listed. But we can also infer which true frosh made the trip to Australia.  Little and Sarell may not have made the travelling squad.

Mostly, that looks correct.
I suspect that the order players are listed isn't rigorously the depth chart, however. But, just in case it is true, there are some interesting tidbits there.

It would imply,
- Fanaika will start at RG.
- Tucker is listed as second string OT.
- We are not like other teams. How many teams have a depth chart four-deep at TE and only five-deep at WR?
- It might imply our starting LBers are Alfieri, Palma, Kalambayi, Tyler.
- To the extent the order is the depth chart, I strongly suspect that the CB position is actually split into two without explicitly saying so - that's because Meeks is the third CB listed.

[CTcard]

I have been trying to find the published depth chart for this game.  I guess we can infer a depth chart from the players and the order in which they are listed. But we can also infer which true frosh made the trip to Australia.  Little and Sarell may not have made the travelling squad.

Mostly, that looks correct.
I suspect that the order players are listed isn't rigorously the depth chart, however. But, just in case it is true, there are some interesting tidbits there.

It would imply,
- Fanaika will start at RG.
- Tucker is listed as second string OT.
- We are not like other teams. How many teams have a depth chart four-deep at TE and only five-deep at WR?
- It might imply our starting LBers are Alfieri, Palma, Kalambayi, Tyler.
- To the extent the order is the depth chart, I strongly suspect that the CB position is actually split into two without explicitly saying so - that's because Meeks is the third CB listed.

[Goose]

I also suspect Little and Sarrell will play.  Question:  Even if not ready for jumbo type plays this week, might they get action in FG protection given the space they occupy?

Watch me be totally wrong, but I would guess they aren't going to burn a redshirt for FG protection, even if it has already been decided that there will be no redshirt, let alone if it is still up in the air. Once you step on the field, it is done. I expect that won't happen for a basically meaningless appearance. Until then, there are options.

[Goose]

I also suspect Little and Sarrell will play.  Question:  Even if not ready for jumbo type plays this week, might they get action in FG protection given the space they occupy?

Watch me be totally wrong, but I would guess they aren't going to burn a redshirt for FG protection, even if it has already been decided that there will be no redshirt, let alone if it is still up in the air. Once you step on the field, it is done. I expect that won't happen for a basically meaningless appearance. Until then, there are options.

[Spiny_Norman]

I understand every one travelled.    Would be quite an insult if not.  But I'm sure they did

Excellent - thanks for setting me straight, Bob.  I guess that the only true frosh on the depth chart right now are Weddington and Parkinson.  But then again there is no position on the depth chart for Ogre.  We'll need help from the announcers to learn who is wearing jersey 94 or 96 or whatever when they bring in an extra lineman.

[Spiny_Norman]

I understand every one travelled.    Would be quite an insult if not.  But I'm sure they did

Excellent - thanks for setting me straight, Bob.  I guess that the only true frosh on the depth chart right now are Weddington and Parkinson.  But then again there is no position on the depth chart for Ogre.  We'll need help from the announcers to learn who is wearing jersey 94 or 96 or whatever when they bring in an extra lineman.