10-10-2017, 07:04 PM
Lost to Trinidad and Tobago today and failed to qualify for the World Cup.
http://www.espnfc.us/match?gameId=466968
BC
http://www.espnfc.us/match?gameId=466968
BC
Sad day for the USMNT
Lost to Trinidad and Tobago today and failed to qualify for the World Cup.
http://www.espnfc.us/match?gameId=466968
BC
http://www.espnfc.us/match?gameId=466968
BC
10-10-2017, 07:13 PM
(10-10-2017, 07:04 PM)Boston Card link Wrote:Lost to Trinidad and Tobago today and failed to qualify for the World Cup.They played like they clinched weeks ago. Conditions were not ideal, but they ran around like they had never played on a sloppy field in their lives. Sigh.
http://www.espnfc.us/match?gameId=466968
BC
(10-10-2017, 07:04 PM)Boston Card link Wrote:Lost to Trinidad and Tobago today and failed to qualify for the World Cup.They played like they clinched weeks ago. Conditions were not ideal, but they ran around like they had never played on a sloppy field in their lives. Sigh.
http://www.espnfc.us/match?gameId=466968
BC
10-10-2017, 07:15 PM
It blows my mind that the USA cannot field a soccer team that can qualify for the World Cup every season.
Put a glide in your stride and a dip in your hip.
10-10-2017, 07:21 PM
Monumental choke. Not the talent, but the mentality -- which came from the coach. Arena, while a better manager than Klinsmann, has always suffered from a big ego. In the best of times, he and his teams have a lot of swagger, an eff-you confidence. In the worst of times, they're smug and complacent. Down the stretch, they played as if they expected to be gifted the spot. Obviously that wasn't the case.
Now, there were many other factors that led to this spot: injuries, some bad luck, a talent gap of players born between 1990 and 1994, and some other stuff. But it doesn't matter. The U.S. has more talent than it's had since I've been seriously following the team, in 2009. That team, for heaven's sake, started Jonny Bornstein and Robbie Findlay. But that team played together and played hard. Only rarely has the most recent incarnation of the U.S. filled both criteria.
The talent will get better and maybe the coaching will too. But it sucks to be wasting a chance to watch Christian Pulisic play on the biggest stage. You don't waste greatness. The USMNT just did.
Now, there were many other factors that led to this spot: injuries, some bad luck, a talent gap of players born between 1990 and 1994, and some other stuff. But it doesn't matter. The U.S. has more talent than it's had since I've been seriously following the team, in 2009. That team, for heaven's sake, started Jonny Bornstein and Robbie Findlay. But that team played together and played hard. Only rarely has the most recent incarnation of the U.S. filled both criteria.
The talent will get better and maybe the coaching will too. But it sucks to be wasting a chance to watch Christian Pulisic play on the biggest stage. You don't waste greatness. The USMNT just did.
Monumental choke. Not the talent, but the mentality -- which came from the coach. Arena, while a better manager than Klinsmann, has always suffered from a big ego. In the best of times, he and his teams have a lot of swagger, an eff-you confidence. In the worst of times, they're smug and complacent. Down the stretch, they played as if they expected to be gifted the spot. Obviously that wasn't the case.
Now, there were many other factors that led to this spot: injuries, some bad luck, a talent gap of players born between 1990 and 1994, and some other stuff. But it doesn't matter. The U.S. has more talent than it's had since I've been seriously following the team, in 2009. That team, for heaven's sake, started Jonny Bornstein and Robbie Findlay. But that team played together and played hard. Only rarely has the most recent incarnation of the U.S. filled both criteria.
The talent will get better and maybe the coaching will too. But it sucks to be wasting a chance to watch Christian Pulisic play on the biggest stage. You don't waste greatness. The USMNT just did.
Now, there were many other factors that led to this spot: injuries, some bad luck, a talent gap of players born between 1990 and 1994, and some other stuff. But it doesn't matter. The U.S. has more talent than it's had since I've been seriously following the team, in 2009. That team, for heaven's sake, started Jonny Bornstein and Robbie Findlay. But that team played together and played hard. Only rarely has the most recent incarnation of the U.S. filled both criteria.
The talent will get better and maybe the coaching will too. But it sucks to be wasting a chance to watch Christian Pulisic play on the biggest stage. You don't waste greatness. The USMNT just did.
10-10-2017, 08:23 PM
It's shocking that we couldnt qualify from our region or even make the playoffs. Then again there looked to be no sense of urgency even when we needed a goal. We arent nearly good enough to go through the motions and win.
Taylor Twellmans rant after captures how a lot of us feel right now. https://twitter.com/taylortwellman/statu...0212327424
Taylor Twellmans rant after captures how a lot of us feel right now. https://twitter.com/taylortwellman/statu...0212327424
It's shocking that we couldnt qualify from our region or even make the playoffs. Then again there looked to be no sense of urgency even when we needed a goal. We arent nearly good enough to go through the motions and win.
Taylor Twellmans rant after captures how a lot of us feel right now. https://twitter.com/taylortwellman/statu...0212327424
Taylor Twellmans rant after captures how a lot of us feel right now. https://twitter.com/taylortwellman/statu...0212327424
10-10-2017, 08:28 PM
I admit that I only follow US soccer during the World Cup, so I'm not very well informed, but here's a question for those who are. Is it possible that this failure is necessary to convince people to make changes? I don't know what these changes are, I just know that the USMNT has been flirting with mediocrity for quite a while. I understand that soccer ranks far behind at least three or four sports for athletic boys in this country, but it's still inconceivable that a program with such brobdingnagian financial backing in one of the largest countries in the world has failed to qualify for the World Cup (or either of the past two Olympics, albeit with a different group).
Please clear the field! The game is not over!
I admit that I only follow US soccer during the World Cup, so I'm not very well informed, but here's a question for those who are. Is it possible that this failure is necessary to convince people to make changes? I don't know what these changes are, I just know that the USMNT has been flirting with mediocrity for quite a while. I understand that soccer ranks far behind at least three or four sports for athletic boys in this country, but it's still inconceivable that a program with such brobdingnagian financial backing in one of the largest countries in the world has failed to qualify for the World Cup (or either of the past two Olympics, albeit with a different group).
Please clear the field! The game is not over!
10-10-2017, 08:33 PM
Any way we can pin the blame on Shaw and Bloomgren?
Free Phogge!!!! And no, crimson doesn't refer to the Tide.
Any way we can pin the blame on Shaw and Bloomgren?
Free Phogge!!!! And no, crimson doesn't refer to the Tide.
10-10-2017, 08:40 PM
(10-10-2017, 08:28 PM)Hank 91 link Wrote:I admit that I only follow US soccer during the World Cup, so I'm not very well informed, but here's a question for those who are. Is it possible that this failure is necessary to convince people to make changes? I don't know what these changes are, I just know that the USMNT has been flirting with mediocrity for quite a while. I understand that soccer ranks far behind at least three or four sports for athletic boys in this country, but it's still inconceivable that a program with such of exceedingly large proportions financial backing in one of the largest countries in the world has failed to qualify for the World Cup (or either of the past two Olympics, albeit with a different group).
I mean, convincing people to make good changes is nice, so sure, if it happens, that's nice too. But the U.S. hasn't really been flirting with mediocrity for a while -- it had a nice upward trajectory through 2010. The team looked a bit stalled in 2011, leading to the firing of the coach, Bob Bradley, and the replacement with Jurgen Klinsmann, who was and is a bad coach. Nevertheless Klinsmann was able to ride an upward talent curve until things went bad; at which point he was fired. Arena, on the second go-around, had the problems noted above.
Now, there are obviously two things you can (sort of) control as a national team program. In the short term, who coaches your guys. In the long term, the changes you make affect talent in four or five years or whatever, right? It's too late to do much with 18 year olds, for example.
The problem here is that the U.S. currently has a talent hole between '90-'94 or so, what should be the prime of the team. But the talent born after '95 is exceptional, and getting better. (e.g., of the current under 17 team:
Quote: The U-17 team, its not a secret that its one of the best American teams ever, says Sebastian Dremmler, Bayern Munichs head coach of international programs who oversees the German giants efforts in the U.S. Of course, all European teams are looking with two eyes on the U.S. team to see what happens.
https://www.theringer.com/2017/10/5/1642...w-carleton
Meanwhile the under 20 teams have finished in the quarterfinals for consecutive world cups for the first time in its history.)
So are there problems? Sure. But the stuff put in place a while ago is working. Certainly one can accelerate and deepen those policies to produce even better results. If done responsibly that's smart. But if you decide to put reform under the aegis of a glib, simplistic leader, that would be dumb and counterproductive. Don't do that. Despite the catastrophe the problems are a little more subtle than "everything sucks and everyone should be fired."
(10-10-2017, 08:28 PM)Hank 91 link Wrote:I admit that I only follow US soccer during the World Cup, so I'm not very well informed, but here's a question for those who are. Is it possible that this failure is necessary to convince people to make changes? I don't know what these changes are, I just know that the USMNT has been flirting with mediocrity for quite a while. I understand that soccer ranks far behind at least three or four sports for athletic boys in this country, but it's still inconceivable that a program with such of exceedingly large proportions financial backing in one of the largest countries in the world has failed to qualify for the World Cup (or either of the past two Olympics, albeit with a different group).
I mean, convincing people to make good changes is nice, so sure, if it happens, that's nice too. But the U.S. hasn't really been flirting with mediocrity for a while -- it had a nice upward trajectory through 2010. The team looked a bit stalled in 2011, leading to the firing of the coach, Bob Bradley, and the replacement with Jurgen Klinsmann, who was and is a bad coach. Nevertheless Klinsmann was able to ride an upward talent curve until things went bad; at which point he was fired. Arena, on the second go-around, had the problems noted above.
Now, there are obviously two things you can (sort of) control as a national team program. In the short term, who coaches your guys. In the long term, the changes you make affect talent in four or five years or whatever, right? It's too late to do much with 18 year olds, for example.
The problem here is that the U.S. currently has a talent hole between '90-'94 or so, what should be the prime of the team. But the talent born after '95 is exceptional, and getting better. (e.g., of the current under 17 team:
Quote: The U-17 team, its not a secret that its one of the best American teams ever, says Sebastian Dremmler, Bayern Munichs head coach of international programs who oversees the German giants efforts in the U.S. Of course, all European teams are looking with two eyes on the U.S. team to see what happens.
https://www.theringer.com/2017/10/5/1642...w-carleton
Meanwhile the under 20 teams have finished in the quarterfinals for consecutive world cups for the first time in its history.)
So are there problems? Sure. But the stuff put in place a while ago is working. Certainly one can accelerate and deepen those policies to produce even better results. If done responsibly that's smart. But if you decide to put reform under the aegis of a glib, simplistic leader, that would be dumb and counterproductive. Don't do that. Despite the catastrophe the problems are a little more subtle than "everything sucks and everyone should be fired."
10-10-2017, 08:41 PM
(10-10-2017, 08:36 PM)BobK link Wrote:And yet they make much more $ compared to our grest American women.Â
I thought that got fixed, am I misremembering? It's definitely ridiculous given that the women's team actually, you know, wins stuff.
10-10-2017, 08:45 PM
BobK: You can move to Norway: https://www.upi.com/Norways-womens-socce...507473890/
WIM: Wasn't Jordan Morris born in... 1994? What does that say about our favorite former player?
BC
WIM: Wasn't Jordan Morris born in... 1994? What does that say about our favorite former player?
BC
BobK: You can move to Norway: https://www.upi.com/Norways-womens-socce...507473890/
WIM: Wasn't Jordan Morris born in... 1994? What does that say about our favorite former player?
BC
WIM: Wasn't Jordan Morris born in... 1994? What does that say about our favorite former player?
BC
10-10-2017, 08:48 PM
Just for comparison sake, TnT has a slightly larger population than Maine and a little less that the former island nation of Hawaii. With so many kids across this country that play youth soccer, how can we be soooo bad?
Free Phogge!!!! And no, crimson doesn't refer to the Tide.
Just for comparison sake, TnT has a slightly larger population than Maine and a little less that the former island nation of Hawaii. With so many kids across this country that play youth soccer, how can we be soooo bad?
Free Phogge!!!! And no, crimson doesn't refer to the Tide.
10-10-2017, 08:53 PM
Our young teams are getting better but is that due to good USSF organization or just that the pool of players at youth level is so large?
Also beyond the national team head coach, is there a clear accountability mechanism? Who could fire Gulati if it were warranted, for example, and institute meaningful changes to how soccer is organized?
Also beyond the national team head coach, is there a clear accountability mechanism? Who could fire Gulati if it were warranted, for example, and institute meaningful changes to how soccer is organized?
Our young teams are getting better but is that due to good USSF organization or just that the pool of players at youth level is so large?
Also beyond the national team head coach, is there a clear accountability mechanism? Who could fire Gulati if it were warranted, for example, and institute meaningful changes to how soccer is organized?
Also beyond the national team head coach, is there a clear accountability mechanism? Who could fire Gulati if it were warranted, for example, and institute meaningful changes to how soccer is organized?
10-10-2017, 08:55 PM
(10-10-2017, 08:45 PM)Boston Card link Wrote:WIM: Wasn't Jordan Morris born in... 1994? What does that say about our favorite former player?
He was! But he's not really a significant player -- behind (and justly so) Jozy Altidore and Bobby Wood. Of course there's time for Morris to develop and round out his game. He has a good work ethic and has visibly improved, though this year was handicapped by injuries. I'm always worried, though, by explosive players in soccer, especially when they start getting injured. The effects seem to get cumulative.
But, yes, if he gets healthy he should improve and therefore continue to factor in as a bench option. That's not unhelpful, of course; you could make the case that crummy bench options on defense basically doomed the team. But it doesn't really change the paradigm of the team in the same way a quality winger or central midfielder would.
(10-10-2017, 08:48 PM)cardcrimson link Wrote:Just for comparison sake, TnT has a slightly larger population than Maine and a little less that the former island nation of Hawaii. With so many kids across this country that play youth soccer, how can we be soooo bad?
Well, the U.S. isn't really *that* bad. T&T has a number of solid, though not overwhelming players in MLS. By contrast the U.S. has a sampling of elite MLS players, solid European and Mexican pros, and a budding superstar in Christian Pulisic. It's just that the U.S. played as if it thought it was entitled to the spot.
(10-10-2017, 08:53 PM)North Woods link Wrote:Our young teams are getting better but is that due to good USSF organization or just that the pool of players at youth level is so large?
Also beyond the national team head coach, is there a clear accountability mechanism? Who could fire Gulati if it were warranted, for example, and institute meaningful changes to how soccer is organized?
1) the pool of players at the youth level has always been large, and if anything is decreasing as of late. Various policy changes are the more likely cause, though who knows, it could just be random.
2) There's an election in the summer.
(10-10-2017, 08:45 PM)Boston Card link Wrote:WIM: Wasn't Jordan Morris born in... 1994? What does that say about our favorite former player?
He was! But he's not really a significant player -- behind (and justly so) Jozy Altidore and Bobby Wood. Of course there's time for Morris to develop and round out his game. He has a good work ethic and has visibly improved, though this year was handicapped by injuries. I'm always worried, though, by explosive players in soccer, especially when they start getting injured. The effects seem to get cumulative.
But, yes, if he gets healthy he should improve and therefore continue to factor in as a bench option. That's not unhelpful, of course; you could make the case that crummy bench options on defense basically doomed the team. But it doesn't really change the paradigm of the team in the same way a quality winger or central midfielder would.
(10-10-2017, 08:48 PM)cardcrimson link Wrote:Just for comparison sake, TnT has a slightly larger population than Maine and a little less that the former island nation of Hawaii. With so many kids across this country that play youth soccer, how can we be soooo bad?
Well, the U.S. isn't really *that* bad. T&T has a number of solid, though not overwhelming players in MLS. By contrast the U.S. has a sampling of elite MLS players, solid European and Mexican pros, and a budding superstar in Christian Pulisic. It's just that the U.S. played as if it thought it was entitled to the spot.
(10-10-2017, 08:53 PM)North Woods link Wrote:Our young teams are getting better but is that due to good USSF organization or just that the pool of players at youth level is so large?
Also beyond the national team head coach, is there a clear accountability mechanism? Who could fire Gulati if it were warranted, for example, and institute meaningful changes to how soccer is organized?
1) the pool of players at the youth level has always been large, and if anything is decreasing as of late. Various policy changes are the more likely cause, though who knows, it could just be random.
2) There's an election in the summer.
10-10-2017, 08:59 PM
(10-10-2017, 08:48 PM)cardcrimson link Wrote:Just for comparison sake, TnT has a slightly larger population than Maine and a little less that the former island nation of Hawaii. With so many kids across this country that play youth soccer, how can we be soooo bad?
Its even worse. There are 1.4 milling trinidadians in Trinidad and Tobago. There are 400,000 Trinidadian Americans.
BC
(10-10-2017, 08:48 PM)cardcrimson link Wrote:Just for comparison sake, TnT has a slightly larger population than Maine and a little less that the former island nation of Hawaii. With so many kids across this country that play youth soccer, how can we be soooo bad?
Its even worse. There are 1.4 milling trinidadians in Trinidad and Tobago. There are 400,000 Trinidadian Americans.
BC
10-10-2017, 09:38 PM
I watched most of the previous game (v. Panama) and the USMNT were good and clinical. Pulisic is the best American player I have ever seen. How they lost to T&T (which I didn't watch) escapes me. There is something seriously dysfunctional going on here, probably based on overcoaching at the youth level. Just give the wee ones a pitch and a ball or two and let them play, and ban the soccer moms and dads until they go through puberty,
All models are wrong; some models are useful......
George Box
I watched most of the previous game (v. Panama) and the USMNT were good and clinical. Pulisic is the best American player I have ever seen. How they lost to T&T (which I didn't watch) escapes me. There is something seriously dysfunctional going on here, probably based on overcoaching at the youth level. Just give the wee ones a pitch and a ball or two and let them play, and ban the soccer moms and dads until they go through puberty,
All models are wrong; some models are useful......
George Box
10-10-2017, 09:39 PM
I watched most of the previous game (v. Panama) and the USMNT were good and clinical. Pulisic is the best American player I have ever seen. How they lost to T&T (which I didn't watch) escapes me. There is something seriously dysfunctional going on here, probably based on overcoaching at the youth level. Just give the wee ones a pitch and a ball or two and let them play, and ban the soccer moms and dads until they go through puberty,
All models are wrong; some models are useful......
George Box
I watched most of the previous game (v. Panama) and the USMNT were good and clinical. Pulisic is the best American player I have ever seen. How they lost to T&T (which I didn't watch) escapes me. There is something seriously dysfunctional going on here, probably based on overcoaching at the youth level. Just give the wee ones a pitch and a ball or two and let them play, and ban the soccer moms and dads until they go through puberty,
All models are wrong; some models are useful......
George Box
10-10-2017, 11:55 PM
(10-10-2017, 08:59 PM)Boston Card link Wrote:[quote author=cardcrimson link=topic=17658.msg205643#msg205643 date=1507693719]
Just for comparison sake, TnT has a slightly larger population than Maine and a little less that the former island nation of Hawaii. With so many kids across this country that play youth soccer, how can we be soooo bad?
Its even worse. There are 1.4 milling trinidadians in Trinidad and Tobago. There are 400,000 Trinidadian Americans.
BC
[/quote]
That's quite a crowd milling around.
(10-10-2017, 08:59 PM)Boston Card link Wrote:[quote author=cardcrimson link=topic=17658.msg205643#msg205643 date=1507693719]
Just for comparison sake, TnT has a slightly larger population than Maine and a little less that the former island nation of Hawaii. With so many kids across this country that play youth soccer, how can we be soooo bad?
Its even worse. There are 1.4 milling trinidadians in Trinidad and Tobago. There are 400,000 Trinidadian Americans.
BC
[/quote]
That's quite a crowd milling around.
10-11-2017, 07:52 AM
(10-10-2017, 07:15 PM)martyup link Wrote:It blows my mind that the USA cannot field a soccer team that can qualify for the World Cup every season.
Have a weird habit of generally only being good every four seasons. Or technically I guess every 16 seasons.
10-11-2017, 08:15 AM
Sucks for the USMNT and fans, but I loathe the idea of participating in anything to do with Russia. They are wreaking havoc all over the world, hacking countries, sowing political divisions, engaging in an illegal war in Ukraine, funding and promoting anti-democratic dictators, kleptocracies, killing journalists, and on and on. And I am certain - just like Qatar - there was serious corruption involved with the Russia World Cup bid as well.
I love the World Cup as an event, but it should never be in Russia given its role as chief underminer of liberal democracies and personal freedom the world over. Though FIFA is too corrupt to be bothered by such mundane facts, at least with the USA not in the World Cup, the U.S. media will pay less attention to it. The less glorification of Russia the better, IMO.
I love the World Cup as an event, but it should never be in Russia given its role as chief underminer of liberal democracies and personal freedom the world over. Though FIFA is too corrupt to be bothered by such mundane facts, at least with the USA not in the World Cup, the U.S. media will pay less attention to it. The less glorification of Russia the better, IMO.
Sucks for the USMNT and fans, but I loathe the idea of participating in anything to do with Russia. They are wreaking havoc all over the world, hacking countries, sowing political divisions, engaging in an illegal war in Ukraine, funding and promoting anti-democratic dictators, kleptocracies, killing journalists, and on and on. And I am certain - just like Qatar - there was serious corruption involved with the Russia World Cup bid as well.
I love the World Cup as an event, but it should never be in Russia given its role as chief underminer of liberal democracies and personal freedom the world over. Though FIFA is too corrupt to be bothered by such mundane facts, at least with the USA not in the World Cup, the U.S. media will pay less attention to it. The less glorification of Russia the better, IMO.
I love the World Cup as an event, but it should never be in Russia given its role as chief underminer of liberal democracies and personal freedom the world over. Though FIFA is too corrupt to be bothered by such mundane facts, at least with the USA not in the World Cup, the U.S. media will pay less attention to it. The less glorification of Russia the better, IMO.
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