[lex24]

Thouroughly outplayed.  Still had a shot. The third and 12 that fell just short. The 3d and 14 conversion deep in WSU territory. And an awful set of play calls when they have great field position. It is beyond me how on second down you could go to Burns for what everyone and their mother knew would be a read option. Then to not throw on third. Awful.

[lex24]

Thouroughly outplayed.  Still had a shot. The third and 12 that fell just short. The 3d and 14 conversion deep in WSU territory. And an awful set of play calls when they have great field position. It is beyond me how on second down you could go to Burns for what everyone and their mother knew would be a read option. Then to not throw on third. Awful.

[Hurlburt88]

Agreed.  and we see why the starting QB decision not obvious to the coaches . . .

[Hurlburt88]

Agreed.  and we see why the starting QB decision not obvious to the coaches . . .

[norcard]

Didn’t throw enough earlier in the game. Can’t let them convert a third and long so easily

Hope little is alright

[norcard]

Didn’t throw enough earlier in the game. Can’t let them convert a third and long so easily

Hope little is alright

[washingtonismoney]

Thouroughly outplayed.  Still had a shot. The third and 12 that fell just short. The 3d and 14 conversion deep in WSU territory. And an awful set of play calls when they have great field position. It is beyond me how on second down you could go to Burns for what everyone and their mother knew would be a read option. Then to not throw on third. Awful.

Yeah, the special package for read-options on Burns was dumb. Costello is a good enough runner to punish the defense on keeps. He had to keep it. That was a mistake.

[washingtonismoney]

Thouroughly outplayed.  Still had a shot. The third and 12 that fell just short. The 3d and 14 conversion deep in WSU territory. And an awful set of play calls when they have great field position. It is beyond me how on second down you could go to Burns for what everyone and their mother knew would be a read option. Then to not throw on third. Awful.

Yeah, the special package for read-options on Burns was dumb. Costello is a good enough runner to punish the defense on keeps. He had to keep it. That was a mistake.

[amartinsu13]

Definitely didn't think our OL would get that dominated.

9 first downs, 198 yards of offense.

This game is on the OL and playcalling. 

Horrible run blocking. Multiple guys in Love's face 3 yards before the LOS on every other run play. 

If Stanford can't run, Stanford can't win.  Our offense is too dependent on it.

Overall D played a lot better than I was expecting, but of course gave up the key 3rd and 14 that led to the deciding TD.  But this is on the OL.

[amartinsu13]

Definitely didn't think our OL would get that dominated.

9 first downs, 198 yards of offense.

This game is on the OL and playcalling. 

Horrible run blocking. Multiple guys in Love's face 3 yards before the LOS on every other run play. 

If Stanford can't run, Stanford can't win.  Our offense is too dependent on it.

Overall D played a lot better than I was expecting, but of course gave up the key 3rd and 14 that led to the deciding TD.  But this is on the OL.

[cardcrimson]

Did Schultz make a single block today? Just awful performance.

[cardcrimson]

Did Schultz make a single block today? Just awful performance.

[Goose]

If Stanford can't run, Stanford can't win.  Our offense is too dependent on it.

Overall D played a lot better than I was expecting, but of course gave up the key 3rd and 14 that led to the deciding TD.  But this is on the OL.

I think this is a precise summary of the game. The OL couldn't deal with the "Speed D", and that is it, full stop.

[Goose]

If Stanford can't run, Stanford can't win.  Our offense is too dependent on it.

Overall D played a lot better than I was expecting, but of course gave up the key 3rd and 14 that led to the deciding TD.  But this is on the OL.

I think this is a precise summary of the game. The OL couldn't deal with the "Speed D", and that is it, full stop.

[stupac2]

I get criticizing bringing on Burns, I don't love it, but didn't that play gain 5 yards? It's hardly like it was a wasted effort. It did more-or-less what we needed from it. It was the play after that where the center got blown up and basically tackled Love himself that was the problem there, and I'm not sure what playcall you make to avoid "our center can't block".

[stupac2]

I get criticizing bringing on Burns, I don't love it, but didn't that play gain 5 yards? It's hardly like it was a wasted effort. It did more-or-less what we needed from it. It was the play after that where the center got blown up and basically tackled Love himself that was the problem there, and I'm not sure what playcall you make to avoid "our center can't block".

[Ratmandoo]

Thouroughly outplayed.  Still had a shot. The third and 12 that fell just short. The 3d and 14 conversion deep in WSU territory. And an awful set of play calls when they have great field position. It is beyond me how on second down you could go to Burns for what everyone and their mother knew would be a read option. Then to not throw on third. Awful.

On that 3rd and 5 play, I have no idea what AT Hall was doing. If he's looking down the field and blocks the linebacker (instead on running into Love), Love picks up the first down easily .... and maybe goes a lot farther. This is a BAAAADDDD game by the offensive line. We seem to really struggle with the quick linemen. We just don't handle Grinch's defense with all the pre-snap movement. I know there were calls to spread out the defense to run better but I actually think we should have done more of the ogre 7 - 8 man offensive linemen. We didn't really see that at all other than the play action pass where Marx made the really nice catch on 3rd and 1.

[Ratmandoo]

Thouroughly outplayed.  Still had a shot. The third and 12 that fell just short. The 3d and 14 conversion deep in WSU territory. And an awful set of play calls when they have great field position. It is beyond me how on second down you could go to Burns for what everyone and their mother knew would be a read option. Then to not throw on third. Awful.

On that 3rd and 5 play, I have no idea what AT Hall was doing. If he's looking down the field and blocks the linebacker (instead on running into Love), Love picks up the first down easily .... and maybe goes a lot farther. This is a BAAAADDDD game by the offensive line. We seem to really struggle with the quick linemen. We just don't handle Grinch's defense with all the pre-snap movement. I know there were calls to spread out the defense to run better but I actually think we should have done more of the ogre 7 - 8 man offensive linemen. We didn't really see that at all other than the play action pass where Marx made the really nice catch on 3rd and 1.

[washingtonismoney]

I get criticizing bringing on Burns, I don't love it, but didn't that play gain 5 yards? It's hardly like it was a wasted effort. It did more-or-less what we needed from it. It was the play after that where the center got blown up and basically tackled Love himself that was the problem there, and I'm not sure what playcall you make to avoid "our center can't block".

1) I think lex (and I) are critical of the second Burns run on 2nd and 6 rather than the first. It was a novelty whose "trick" was exposed.

2) Of course it's tougher to plan and playcall around something that's unexpected. Burkett has been excellent all year, up until this game. If, say, Frank Buncom had struggled there's a plan to replace him (because he's often struggled this year). If Quenton Meeks and Burkett do? That's tough.

[washingtonismoney]

I get criticizing bringing on Burns, I don't love it, but didn't that play gain 5 yards? It's hardly like it was a wasted effort. It did more-or-less what we needed from it. It was the play after that where the center got blown up and basically tackled Love himself that was the problem there, and I'm not sure what playcall you make to avoid "our center can't block".

1) I think lex (and I) are critical of the second Burns run on 2nd and 6 rather than the first. It was a novelty whose "trick" was exposed.

2) Of course it's tougher to plan and playcall around something that's unexpected. Burkett has been excellent all year, up until this game. If, say, Frank Buncom had struggled there's a plan to replace him (because he's often struggled this year). If Quenton Meeks and Burkett do? That's tough.

[cardcrimson]

[quote author=lex24 link=topic=17904.msg210601#msg210601 date=1509835797]
Thouroughly outplayed.  Still had a shot. The third and 12 that fell just short. The 3d and 14 conversion deep in WSU territory. And an awful set of play calls when they have great field position. It is beyond me how on second down you could go to Burns for what everyone and their mother knew would be a read option. Then to not throw on third. Awful.

On that 3rd and 5 play, I have no idea what AT Hall was doing. If he's looking down the field and blocks the linebacker (instead on running into Love), Love picks up the first down easily .... and maybe goes a lot farther. This is a BAAAADDDD game by the offensive line. We seem to really struggle with the quick linemen. We just don't handle Grinch's defense with all the pre-snap movement. I know there were calls to spread out the defense to run better but I actually think we should have done more of the ogre 7 - 8 man offensive linemen. We didn't really see that at all other than the play action pass where Marx made the really nice catch on 3rd and 1.
[/quote]

That was a really ugly play.

A question. Why weren't we prepared for the quick movement of their line? Why didn't we make adjustments at halftime? Okay, that's two questions.

[cardcrimson]

[quote author=lex24 link=topic=17904.msg210601#msg210601 date=1509835797]
Thouroughly outplayed.  Still had a shot. The third and 12 that fell just short. The 3d and 14 conversion deep in WSU territory. And an awful set of play calls when they have great field position. It is beyond me how on second down you could go to Burns for what everyone and their mother knew would be a read option. Then to not throw on third. Awful.

On that 3rd and 5 play, I have no idea what AT Hall was doing. If he's looking down the field and blocks the linebacker (instead on running into Love), Love picks up the first down easily .... and maybe goes a lot farther. This is a BAAAADDDD game by the offensive line. We seem to really struggle with the quick linemen. We just don't handle Grinch's defense with all the pre-snap movement. I know there were calls to spread out the defense to run better but I actually think we should have done more of the ogre 7 - 8 man offensive linemen. We didn't really see that at all other than the play action pass where Marx made the really nice catch on 3rd and 1.
[/quote]

That was a really ugly play.

A question. Why weren't we prepared for the quick movement of their line? Why didn't we make adjustments at halftime? Okay, that's two questions.

[washingtonismoney]

A question. Why weren't we prepared for the quick movement of their line? Why didn't we make adjustments at halftime? Okay, that's two questions.

Well, it looked to me WSU was actually doing a lot less of the pre-snap motions in the second half. The offensive line simply got whipped over and over again.

[washingtonismoney]

A question. Why weren't we prepared for the quick movement of their line? Why didn't we make adjustments at halftime? Okay, that's two questions.

Well, it looked to me WSU was actually doing a lot less of the pre-snap motions in the second half. The offensive line simply got whipped over and over again.

[stupac2]

[quote author=stupac2 link=topic=17904.msg210635#msg210635 date=1509836512]
I get criticizing bringing on Burns, I don't love it, but didn't that play gain 5 yards? It's hardly like it was a wasted effort. It did more-or-less what we needed from it. It was the play after that where the center got blown up and basically tackled Love himself that was the problem there, and I'm not sure what playcall you make to avoid "our center can't block".

1) I think lex (and I) are critical of the second Burns run on 2nd and 6 rather than the first. It was a novelty whose "trick" was exposed.

2) Of course it's tougher to plan and playcall around something that's unexpected. Burkett has been excellent all year, up until this game. If, say, Frank Buncom had struggled there's a plan to replace him (because he's often struggled this year). If Quenton Meeks and Burkett do? That's tough.
[/quote]

That play gained 3 yards on 2nd and 8. That's not exactly great but it's hardly a disaster. I don't necessarily see why you'd put in Burns as opposed to just calling a read option with Costello, but presumably there's some reason. There were many more downs where we had far worse outcomes than that. If I were going to pick playcalls to criticize (as opposed to general decisions like punting twice from ~midfield in the 4th quarter) I'd probably pick something else, it seemed like our general strategy on offense didn't change in the second half when it absolutely should have.

[stupac2]

[quote author=stupac2 link=topic=17904.msg210635#msg210635 date=1509836512]
I get criticizing bringing on Burns, I don't love it, but didn't that play gain 5 yards? It's hardly like it was a wasted effort. It did more-or-less what we needed from it. It was the play after that where the center got blown up and basically tackled Love himself that was the problem there, and I'm not sure what playcall you make to avoid "our center can't block".

1) I think lex (and I) are critical of the second Burns run on 2nd and 6 rather than the first. It was a novelty whose "trick" was exposed.

2) Of course it's tougher to plan and playcall around something that's unexpected. Burkett has been excellent all year, up until this game. If, say, Frank Buncom had struggled there's a plan to replace him (because he's often struggled this year). If Quenton Meeks and Burkett do? That's tough.
[/quote]

That play gained 3 yards on 2nd and 8. That's not exactly great but it's hardly a disaster. I don't necessarily see why you'd put in Burns as opposed to just calling a read option with Costello, but presumably there's some reason. There were many more downs where we had far worse outcomes than that. If I were going to pick playcalls to criticize (as opposed to general decisions like punting twice from ~midfield in the 4th quarter) I'd probably pick something else, it seemed like our general strategy on offense didn't change in the second half when it absolutely should have.

[Goose]

If I were going to pick playcalls to criticize (as opposed to general decisions like punting twice from ~midfield in the 4th quarter) I'd probably pick something else, it seemed like our general strategy on offense didn't change in the second half when it absolutely should have.

I don't disagree, but OTOH I am not sure what strategy would have helped. IMHO, we needed a tactical improvement, i.e. the OL needed to block somebody. Without that, no strategy will work well.

[Goose]

If I were going to pick playcalls to criticize (as opposed to general decisions like punting twice from ~midfield in the 4th quarter) I'd probably pick something else, it seemed like our general strategy on offense didn't change in the second half when it absolutely should have.

I don't disagree, but OTOH I am not sure what strategy would have helped. IMHO, we needed a tactical improvement, i.e. the OL needed to block somebody. Without that, no strategy will work well.

[lex24]

They tried some different things offensively. Moved the pocket a bit. Ran outside more than usual. The penetration by WSU line killed them.

[lex24]

They tried some different things offensively. Moved the pocket a bit. Ran outside more than usual. The penetration by WSU line killed them.

[cardcrimson]

They tried some different things offensively. Moved the pocket a bit. Ran outside more than usual. The penetration by WSU line killed them.

Very disappointing quote from Shaw after the game on KNBR: "For three years in a row, they beat us upfront".  If that's the case, why not plan for it and figure a way to beat it. That's what great OC's do. You're getting gashed upfront, whatever happened to the screen? How about a quick out? How about a flare to Love? On one play, Love was wide open in the middle of the field, with apparently with a blocker. Costello hit JJ or Irwin for a first down. Great, but why didn't they go back to something similar out of the backfield to Love later in the game? Are his hands really that bad?

[cardcrimson]

They tried some different things offensively. Moved the pocket a bit. Ran outside more than usual. The penetration by WSU line killed them.

Very disappointing quote from Shaw after the game on KNBR: "For three years in a row, they beat us upfront".  If that's the case, why not plan for it and figure a way to beat it. That's what great OC's do. You're getting gashed upfront, whatever happened to the screen? How about a quick out? How about a flare to Love? On one play, Love was wide open in the middle of the field, with apparently with a blocker. Costello hit JJ or Irwin for a first down. Great, but why didn't they go back to something similar out of the backfield to Love later in the game? Are his hands really that bad?

[lex24]

  Would have liked to have seen a screen or two. I have no idea why Love is not involved in passing game.

[quote author=lex24 link=topic=17904.msg210672#msg210672 date=1509838868]
They tried some different things offensively. Moved the pocket a bit. Ran outside more than usual. The penetration by WSU line killed them.

Very disappointing quote from Shaw after the game on KNBR: "For three years in a row, they beat us upfront".  If that's the case, why not plan for it and figure a way to beat it. That's what great OC's do. You're getting gashed upfront, whatever happened to the screen? How about a quick out? How about a flare to Love? On one play, Love was wide open in the middle of the field, with apparently with a blocker. Costello hit JJ or Irwin for a first down. Great, but why didn't they go back to something similar out of the backfield to Love later in the game? Are his hands really that bad?
[/quote]

[lex24]

  Would have liked to have seen a screen or two. I have no idea why Love is not involved in passing game.

[quote author=lex24 link=topic=17904.msg210672#msg210672 date=1509838868]
They tried some different things offensively. Moved the pocket a bit. Ran outside more than usual. The penetration by WSU line killed them.

Very disappointing quote from Shaw after the game on KNBR: "For three years in a row, they beat us upfront".  If that's the case, why not plan for it and figure a way to beat it. That's what great OC's do. You're getting gashed upfront, whatever happened to the screen? How about a quick out? How about a flare to Love? On one play, Love was wide open in the middle of the field, with apparently with a blocker. Costello hit JJ or Irwin for a first down. Great, but why didn't they go back to something similar out of the backfield to Love later in the game? Are his hands really that bad?
[/quote]

[BostonCard]

[quote author=lex24 link=topic=17904.msg210672#msg210672 date=1509838868]
They tried some different things offensively. Moved the pocket a bit. Ran outside more than usual. The penetration by WSU line killed them.

Very disappointing quote from Shaw after the game on KNBR: "For three years in a row, they beat us upfront".  If that's the case, why not plan for it and figure a way to beat it. That's what great OC's do. You're getting gashed upfront, whatever happened to the screen? How about a quick out? How about a flare to Love? On one play, Love was wide open in the middle of the field, with apparently with a blocker. Costello hit JJ or Irwin for a first down. Great, but why didn't they go back to something similar out of the backfield to Love later in the game? Are his hands really that bad?
[/quote]

Sheesh, we’ve beaten UCLA up front for something like10 consecutive years.  Give Washington State some credit, and let’s remember that we have some young players on offensive line and our defensive line has been thin for several years.  The solution is to not whiff on defensive line recruiting, but that is easier said than done.  On offensive line, we will be fine, but they will still have bad games, especially on the road.

BC

[BostonCard]

[quote author=lex24 link=topic=17904.msg210672#msg210672 date=1509838868]
They tried some different things offensively. Moved the pocket a bit. Ran outside more than usual. The penetration by WSU line killed them.

Very disappointing quote from Shaw after the game on KNBR: "For three years in a row, they beat us upfront".  If that's the case, why not plan for it and figure a way to beat it. That's what great OC's do. You're getting gashed upfront, whatever happened to the screen? How about a quick out? How about a flare to Love? On one play, Love was wide open in the middle of the field, with apparently with a blocker. Costello hit JJ or Irwin for a first down. Great, but why didn't they go back to something similar out of the backfield to Love later in the game? Are his hands really that bad?
[/quote]

Sheesh, we’ve beaten UCLA up front for something like10 consecutive years.  Give Washington State some credit, and let’s remember that we have some young players on offensive line and our defensive line has been thin for several years.  The solution is to not whiff on defensive line recruiting, but that is easier said than done.  On offensive line, we will be fine, but they will still have bad games, especially on the road.

BC

[Scott]

Here's an idea, stop running the ball so often when your OL can't win in the run game. They weren't amazing or anything in pass protection but they weren't getting destroyed like they were on runs. I don't know why it took Shaw until the post-game press conference to figure this out, it's been a problem most of the year.

Sure the OL played poorly, but the coaching was worse.

[Scott]

Here's an idea, stop running the ball so often when your OL can't win in the run game. They weren't amazing or anything in pass protection but they weren't getting destroyed like they were on runs. I don't know why it took Shaw until the post-game press conference to figure this out, it's been a problem most of the year.

Sure the OL played poorly, but the coaching was worse.

[cardcrimson]

[quote author=cardcrimson link=topic=17904.msg210690#msg210690 date=1509840599]
[quote author=lex24 link=topic=17904.msg210672#msg210672 date=1509838868]
They tried some different things offensively. Moved the pocket a bit. Ran outside more than usual. The penetration by WSU line killed them.

Very disappointing quote from Shaw after the game on KNBR: "For three years in a row, they beat us upfront".  If that's the case, why not plan for it and figure a way to beat it. That's what great OC's do. You're getting gashed upfront, whatever happened to the screen? How about a quick out? How about a flare to Love? On one play, Love was wide open in the middle of the field, with apparently with a blocker. Costello hit JJ or Irwin for a first down. Great, but why didn't they go back to something similar out of the backfield to Love later in the game? Are his hands really that bad?
[/quote]

Sheesh, we’ve beaten UCLA up front for something like10 consecutive years.  Give Washington State some credit, and let’s remember that we have some young players on offensive line and our defensive line has been thin for several years.  The solution is to not whiff on defensive line recruiting, but that is easier said than done.  On offensive line, we will be fine, but they will still have bad games, especially on the road.

BC
[/quote]

Sheesh? Come on man. I'm giving WSU a ton of credit. They've out schemed us three years running against our O-line, even according to Shaw. Love had 6 touches in the second half. Six! Four yards total for the most electric player in the game. Get him the ball somehow when he's not getting hit as he takes a handoff. They were shooting the gaps, and though I hate the ogre package, I don't think we ran it all game. That package fills the gaps, no? 

[cardcrimson]

[quote author=cardcrimson link=topic=17904.msg210690#msg210690 date=1509840599]
[quote author=lex24 link=topic=17904.msg210672#msg210672 date=1509838868]
They tried some different things offensively. Moved the pocket a bit. Ran outside more than usual. The penetration by WSU line killed them.

Very disappointing quote from Shaw after the game on KNBR: "For three years in a row, they beat us upfront".  If that's the case, why not plan for it and figure a way to beat it. That's what great OC's do. You're getting gashed upfront, whatever happened to the screen? How about a quick out? How about a flare to Love? On one play, Love was wide open in the middle of the field, with apparently with a blocker. Costello hit JJ or Irwin for a first down. Great, but why didn't they go back to something similar out of the backfield to Love later in the game? Are his hands really that bad?
[/quote]

Sheesh, we’ve beaten UCLA up front for something like10 consecutive years.  Give Washington State some credit, and let’s remember that we have some young players on offensive line and our defensive line has been thin for several years.  The solution is to not whiff on defensive line recruiting, but that is easier said than done.  On offensive line, we will be fine, but they will still have bad games, especially on the road.

BC
[/quote]

Sheesh? Come on man. I'm giving WSU a ton of credit. They've out schemed us three years running against our O-line, even according to Shaw. Love had 6 touches in the second half. Six! Four yards total for the most electric player in the game. Get him the ball somehow when he's not getting hit as he takes a handoff. They were shooting the gaps, and though I hate the ogre package, I don't think we ran it all game. That package fills the gaps, no?