[stupac2]

Here's an idea, stop running the ball so often when your OL can't win in the run game. They weren't amazing or anything in pass protection but they weren't getting destroyed like they were on runs. I don't know why it took Shaw until the post-game press conference to figure this out, it's been a problem most of the year.

Sure the OL played poorly, but the coaching was worse.

It sure hasn't been a problem most of the year, one of our losses was our second-best running game of the year. In that game we passed way too much.

[stupac2]

Here's an idea, stop running the ball so often when your OL can't win in the run game. They weren't amazing or anything in pass protection but they weren't getting destroyed like they were on runs. I don't know why it took Shaw until the post-game press conference to figure this out, it's been a problem most of the year.

Sure the OL played poorly, but the coaching was worse.

It sure hasn't been a problem most of the year, one of our losses was our second-best running game of the year. In that game we passed way too much.

[washingtonismoney]

Yes, we should definitely stop running the ball and (looks at notes) stop giving the ball to the record-setting running back.

[washingtonismoney]

Yes, we should definitely stop running the ball and (looks at notes) stop giving the ball to the record-setting running back.

[cardcrimson]

Yes, we should definitely stop running the ball and (looks at notes) stop giving the ball to the record-setting running back.

Not at all. Get him the ball. Just don't do it five yards deep when were getting gashed up front. Get him the ball in space--slip him out of the backfield kinda thing. I don't think we threw a pass to Love all day, did we?

[cardcrimson]

Yes, we should definitely stop running the ball and (looks at notes) stop giving the ball to the record-setting running back.

Not at all. Get him the ball. Just don't do it five yards deep when were getting gashed up front. Get him the ball in space--slip him out of the backfield kinda thing. I don't think we threw a pass to Love all day, did we?

[stupac2]

[quote author=washingtonismoney link=topic=17904.msg210700#msg210700 date=1509842091]
Yes, we should definitely stop running the ball and (looks at notes) stop giving the ball to the record-setting running back.

Not at all. Get him the ball. Just don't do it five yards deep when were getting gashed up front. Get him the ball in space--slip him out of the backfield kinda thing. I don't think we threw a pass to Love all day, did we?
[/quote]

Or, you know, run some playfakes or something. Did we use playaction with Love even once?

Anyway, like I said, it was a close game and there are plenty of things you can point to and ask "What if?" But in my mind it comes back to us getting completely demolished up front to the point where a team that usually outperforms its opponent's rushing average by over a ypc actually underperformed it. This wasn't just "WSU's line is good", we got rocked. That we were still in it late is kind of amazing.

[stupac2]

[quote author=washingtonismoney link=topic=17904.msg210700#msg210700 date=1509842091]
Yes, we should definitely stop running the ball and (looks at notes) stop giving the ball to the record-setting running back.

Not at all. Get him the ball. Just don't do it five yards deep when were getting gashed up front. Get him the ball in space--slip him out of the backfield kinda thing. I don't think we threw a pass to Love all day, did we?
[/quote]

Or, you know, run some playfakes or something. Did we use playaction with Love even once?

Anyway, like I said, it was a close game and there are plenty of things you can point to and ask "What if?" But in my mind it comes back to us getting completely demolished up front to the point where a team that usually outperforms its opponent's rushing average by over a ypc actually underperformed it. This wasn't just "WSU's line is good", we got rocked. That we were still in it late is kind of amazing.

[Goose]

We know from the CMAC experience that Shaw and the offensive brain trust are aware that it is legal to throw to the running backs. The fact they don't use Love in the passing game much probably has a reason behind it. It could be he isn't very good at it. I don't know.  I am pretty sure that the coaches aren't doing it just out of spite/stupidity. It is also possible that the QBs have trouble throwing the screen/wheel routes. No coach is going to say "We don't throw to player X because...", but I strongly suspect there is a reason.

[Goose]

We know from the CMAC experience that Shaw and the offensive brain trust are aware that it is legal to throw to the running backs. The fact they don't use Love in the passing game much probably has a reason behind it. It could be he isn't very good at it. I don't know.  I am pretty sure that the coaches aren't doing it just out of spite/stupidity. It is also possible that the QBs have trouble throwing the screen/wheel routes. No coach is going to say "We don't throw to player X because...", but I strongly suspect there is a reason.

[washingtonismoney]

Or, you know, run some playfakes or something. Did we use playaction with Love even once?

I think twice. The Coug d-line just swarmed so fast it didn't matter.

[washingtonismoney]

Or, you know, run some playfakes or something. Did we use playaction with Love even once?

I think twice. The Coug d-line just swarmed so fast it didn't matter.

[BostonCard]

There was the play to Marx that went for 20 yards on third and short.

BC

[BostonCard]

There was the play to Marx that went for 20 yards on third and short.

BC

[Beeg_Dawg]

Here's an idea, stop running the ball so often when your OL can't win in the run game. They weren't amazing or anything in pass protection but they weren't getting destroyed like they were on runs. I don't know why it took Shaw until the post-game press conference to figure this out, it's been a problem most of the year.

Sure the OL played poorly, but the coaching was worse.

It was like watching a replay of the beaver game.  I thought our OL turned the corner a couple of games ago.  But I'm the same guy who thought Chryst turned the corner against the Ducks. 

[Beeg_Dawg]

Here's an idea, stop running the ball so often when your OL can't win in the run game. They weren't amazing or anything in pass protection but they weren't getting destroyed like they were on runs. I don't know why it took Shaw until the post-game press conference to figure this out, it's been a problem most of the year.

Sure the OL played poorly, but the coaching was worse.

It was like watching a replay of the beaver game.  I thought our OL turned the corner a couple of games ago.  But I'm the same guy who thought Chryst turned the corner against the Ducks. 

[cardcrimson]

There was the play to Marx that went for 20 yards on third and short.

BC

Don't think three in the backfield, plus Costello, counts as an ogre. That said, when it happened, I commented on the game thread "now that's a great call" or something like that. Loved it. The only creative call I've seen in a couple of weeks.

Two years ago, Shawgren found all sorts of ways to get the ball into CMac's hands. Why not with Love?

[cardcrimson]

There was the play to Marx that went for 20 yards on third and short.

BC

Don't think three in the backfield, plus Costello, counts as an ogre. That said, when it happened, I commented on the game thread "now that's a great call" or something like that. Loved it. The only creative call I've seen in a couple of weeks.

Two years ago, Shawgren found all sorts of ways to get the ball into CMac's hands. Why not with Love?

[stupac2]

We know from the CMAC experience that Shaw and the offensive brain trust are aware that it is legal to throw to the running backs. The fact they don't use Love in the passing game much probably has a reason behind it. It could be he isn't very good at it. I don't know.  I am pretty sure that the coaches aren't doing it just out of spite/stupidity. It is also possible that the QBs have trouble throwing the screen/wheel routes. No coach is going to say "We don't throw to player X because...", but I strongly suspect there is a reason.

His first big play was a 90-something yard screen pass against UCF in 2015. Plus didn't he catch a nice wheel route against UNC last year? There's probably some reason we're not passing to him much, but he's shown he can catch the ball adequately.

There was the play to Marx that went for 20 yards on third and short.

BC

If you were replying to me, was that with Love in the play? I thought since it was short yardage it was Scarlett.

[quote author=stupac2 link=topic=17904.msg210703#msg210703 date=1509843171]
Or, you know, run some playfakes or something. Did we use playaction with Love even once?

I think twice. The Coug d-line just swarmed so fast it didn't matter.
[/quote]

I guess it's hard to do anything when your front is getting whipped.

[stupac2]

We know from the CMAC experience that Shaw and the offensive brain trust are aware that it is legal to throw to the running backs. The fact they don't use Love in the passing game much probably has a reason behind it. It could be he isn't very good at it. I don't know.  I am pretty sure that the coaches aren't doing it just out of spite/stupidity. It is also possible that the QBs have trouble throwing the screen/wheel routes. No coach is going to say "We don't throw to player X because...", but I strongly suspect there is a reason.

His first big play was a 90-something yard screen pass against UCF in 2015. Plus didn't he catch a nice wheel route against UNC last year? There's probably some reason we're not passing to him much, but he's shown he can catch the ball adequately.

There was the play to Marx that went for 20 yards on third and short.

BC

If you were replying to me, was that with Love in the play? I thought since it was short yardage it was Scarlett.

[quote author=stupac2 link=topic=17904.msg210703#msg210703 date=1509843171]
Or, you know, run some playfakes or something. Did we use playaction with Love even once?

I think twice. The Coug d-line just swarmed so fast it didn't matter.
[/quote]

I guess it's hard to do anything when your front is getting whipped.

[Scott]

[quote author=Scott link=topic=17904.msg210696#msg210696 date=1509841446]
Here's an idea, stop running the ball so often when your OL can't win in the run game. They weren't amazing or anything in pass protection but they weren't getting destroyed like they were on runs. I don't know why it took Shaw until the post-game press conference to figure this out, it's been a problem most of the year.

Sure the OL played poorly, but the coaching was worse.

It sure hasn't been a problem most of the year, one of our losses was our second-best running game of the year. In that game we passed way too much.
[/quote]
You're just factually incorrect on that, they didn't have their second-best running game in either of their previous losses. Both of those games they had under 200 yards rushing. Maybe I overstated it when I said most of the year, but regardless it has been a problem before today.

[Scott]

[quote author=Scott link=topic=17904.msg210696#msg210696 date=1509841446]
Here's an idea, stop running the ball so often when your OL can't win in the run game. They weren't amazing or anything in pass protection but they weren't getting destroyed like they were on runs. I don't know why it took Shaw until the post-game press conference to figure this out, it's been a problem most of the year.

Sure the OL played poorly, but the coaching was worse.

It sure hasn't been a problem most of the year, one of our losses was our second-best running game of the year. In that game we passed way too much.
[/quote]
You're just factually incorrect on that, they didn't have their second-best running game in either of their previous losses. Both of those games they had under 200 yards rushing. Maybe I overstated it when I said most of the year, but regardless it has been a problem before today.

[stupac2]

I literally just ran the numbers, relative to what the opponent normally gives up, @SDSU was our second-best running game of the year. We averaged 7.91 yards/rush, and they normally give up 3.8. That's a very strong performance, and we definitely should have been running more.

[stupac2]

I literally just ran the numbers, relative to what the opponent normally gives up, @SDSU was our second-best running game of the year. We averaged 7.91 yards/rush, and they normally give up 3.8. That's a very strong performance, and we definitely should have been running more.

[winflop]

Agreed.  and we see why the starting QB decision not obvious to the coaches . . .

Costello is not why they lost today. OL & Shawgren are why they lost.

[winflop]

Agreed.  and we see why the starting QB decision not obvious to the coaches . . .

Costello is not why they lost today. OL & Shawgren are why they lost.

[cardcrimson]

[quote author=hurlburt88 link=topic=17904.msg210619#msg210619 date=1509836153]
Agreed.  and we see why the starting QB decision not obvious to the coaches . . .

Costello is not why they lost today. OL & Shawgren are why they lost.
[/quote]

B I N G O.

[cardcrimson]

[quote author=hurlburt88 link=topic=17904.msg210619#msg210619 date=1509836153]
Agreed.  and we see why the starting QB decision not obvious to the coaches . . .

Costello is not why they lost today. OL & Shawgren are why they lost.
[/quote]

B I N G O.

[RuralFan]

It seems to me we lost because the defense allowed Washington State to march 94 yards into the end zone to take the lead and we lost because with the exception of two plays, our offensive was ineffective.  I'm not at all sure that Shaw calling more pass plays would have turned the game around.  Our pass receivers weren't getting separation and our offensive line was porous.

[RuralFan]

It seems to me we lost because the defense allowed Washington State to march 94 yards into the end zone to take the lead and we lost because with the exception of two plays, our offensive was ineffective.  I'm not at all sure that Shaw calling more pass plays would have turned the game around.  Our pass receivers weren't getting separation and our offensive line was porous.

[JeffInCorvallis]

[quote author=washingtonismoney link=topic=17904.msg210700#msg210700 date=1509842091]
Yes, we should definitely stop running the ball and (looks at notes) stop giving the ball to the record-setting running back.

Not at all. Get him the ball. Just don't do it five yards deep when were getting gashed up front. Get him the ball in space--slip him out of the backfield kinda thing. I don't think we threw a pass to Love all day, did we?
[/quote]

For the season, Love has one reception against SDSU, one against UCLA, and two at Utah.  A total of 19 yards.

[JeffInCorvallis]

[quote author=washingtonismoney link=topic=17904.msg210700#msg210700 date=1509842091]
Yes, we should definitely stop running the ball and (looks at notes) stop giving the ball to the record-setting running back.

Not at all. Get him the ball. Just don't do it five yards deep when were getting gashed up front. Get him the ball in space--slip him out of the backfield kinda thing. I don't think we threw a pass to Love all day, did we?
[/quote]

For the season, Love has one reception against SDSU, one against UCLA, and two at Utah.  A total of 19 yards.

[Beeg_Dawg]

It seems to me we lost because the defense allowed Washington State to march 94 yards into the end zone to take the lead and we lost because with the exception of two plays, our offensive was ineffective.  I'm not at all sure that Shaw calling more pass plays would have turned the game around.  Our pass receivers weren't getting separation and our offensive line was porous.

We lost because we have no offense.  We have scored two offensive touchdowns in the last two games. I don't consider Costello's TD as one for the offense.  The fumbleruskie was hardly a designed play.

[Beeg_Dawg]

It seems to me we lost because the defense allowed Washington State to march 94 yards into the end zone to take the lead and we lost because with the exception of two plays, our offensive was ineffective.  I'm not at all sure that Shaw calling more pass plays would have turned the game around.  Our pass receivers weren't getting separation and our offensive line was porous.

We lost because we have no offense.  We have scored two offensive touchdowns in the last two games. I don't consider Costello's TD as one for the offense.  The fumbleruskie was hardly a designed play.

[ChicagoCard]

[quote author=RuralFan link=topic=17904.msg210744#msg210744 date=1509850668]
It seems to me we lost because the defense allowed Washington State to march 94 yards into the end zone to take the lead and we lost because with the exception of two plays, our offensive was ineffective.  I'm not at all sure that Shaw calling more pass plays would have turned the game around.  Our pass receivers weren't getting separation and our offensive line was porous.

We lost because we have no offense.  We have scored two offensive touchdowns in the last two games. I don't consider Costello's TD as one for the offense.  The fumbleruskie was hardly a designed play.
[/quote]

It was a lucky bounce but just prior to that Helfrich and Papadakis emphatically said an S.U. wideout got PI'd on near the end zone. Arcega-W I think.

[ChicagoCard]

[quote author=RuralFan link=topic=17904.msg210744#msg210744 date=1509850668]
It seems to me we lost because the defense allowed Washington State to march 94 yards into the end zone to take the lead and we lost because with the exception of two plays, our offensive was ineffective.  I'm not at all sure that Shaw calling more pass plays would have turned the game around.  Our pass receivers weren't getting separation and our offensive line was porous.

We lost because we have no offense.  We have scored two offensive touchdowns in the last two games. I don't consider Costello's TD as one for the offense.  The fumbleruskie was hardly a designed play.
[/quote]

It was a lucky bounce but just prior to that Helfrich and Papadakis emphatically said an S.U. wideout got PI'd on near the end zone. Arcega-W I think.

[81alum]

I was rather encouraged by how Shaw took the loss in his presser.  He acknowledged that the loss was "on him" because he had not "mixed it up" and called more first down passes, etc.  He said they were sticking with the run because so often they were "one block" away but that that one block never came.  In other words, he admitted he had been stubborn and that his stubbornness cost us the game.

https://twitter.com/stanfordfball?lang=en

I was a bit surprised when he said that we did as well running the ball as could be expected, given the quality of the run defense.  I kept thinking that our O-line must need to make some sort of adjustments.  I presume that the WSU D-line was not simply physically superior, but that they had some scheme that was getting them into the backfield and that we needed the right playcalls to punish their scheme--and Shaw did not call those plays, and he admitted as much.

[81alum]

I was rather encouraged by how Shaw took the loss in his presser.  He acknowledged that the loss was "on him" because he had not "mixed it up" and called more first down passes, etc.  He said they were sticking with the run because so often they were "one block" away but that that one block never came.  In other words, he admitted he had been stubborn and that his stubbornness cost us the game.

https://twitter.com/stanfordfball?lang=en

I was a bit surprised when he said that we did as well running the ball as could be expected, given the quality of the run defense.  I kept thinking that our O-line must need to make some sort of adjustments.  I presume that the WSU D-line was not simply physically superior, but that they had some scheme that was getting them into the backfield and that we needed the right playcalls to punish their scheme--and Shaw did not call those plays, and he admitted as much.

[stupac2]

I don't know if "hey maybe our OL will stop being shockingly incompetent" is stubbornness, especially for a team whose problem in losses historically has been not running enough.

[stupac2]

I don't know if "hey maybe our OL will stop being shockingly incompetent" is stubbornness, especially for a team whose problem in losses historically has been not running enough.