WBB: New Coaches Poll 1/19
01-19-2021, 01:05 PM
(01-19-2021, 12:31 PM)TheRicker Wrote: Stanford #4 in Coaches Poll
Detail on right side of page:
https://www.espn.com/womens-college-basketball/rankings
Amazing the effects of one late game errant inbound pass.
Hey, remember the Utah game where we played really sloppy at the end of the game and let the Utes close the gap in the our big lead. I recall a couple of poor inbound passes that led to turnovers late in that game too. Someone on this board commented that play like that would end up costing us down the road. That was prophetic.
Put a glide in your stride and a dip in your hip.
(01-19-2021, 12:31 PM)TheRicker Wrote: Stanford #4 in Coaches Poll
Detail on right side of page:
https://www.espn.com/womens-college-basketball/rankings
Amazing the effects of one late game errant inbound pass.
Hey, remember the Utah game where we played really sloppy at the end of the game and let the Utes close the gap in the our big lead. I recall a couple of poor inbound passes that led to turnovers late in that game too. Someone on this board commented that play like that would end up costing us down the road. That was prophetic.
Put a glide in your stride and a dip in your hip.
01-19-2021, 04:19 PM
Not sure what the "detail on right side of page" was, as the ESPN site changes very frequently each day.
But I did see that Mulkey got a former Big-12 FOY G to transfer from Texas Tech. Classic Baylor recruiting.
But I did see that Mulkey got a former Big-12 FOY G to transfer from Texas Tech. Classic Baylor recruiting.
01-20-2021, 12:31 PM
(01-19-2021, 04:19 PM)qwerty49 Wrote: Not sure what the "detail on right side of page" was, as the ESPN site changes very frequently each day.
But I did see that Mulkey got a former Big-12 FOY G to transfer from Texas Tech. Classic Baylor recruiting.
Baylor does it, Oregon perfects it: Mikesell, Prince and Boley on the current roster, Minyon Moore on last years.
(01-19-2021, 04:19 PM)qwerty49 Wrote: Not sure what the "detail on right side of page" was, as the ESPN site changes very frequently each day.
But I did see that Mulkey got a former Big-12 FOY G to transfer from Texas Tech. Classic Baylor recruiting.
Baylor does it, Oregon perfects it: Mikesell, Prince and Boley on the current roster, Minyon Moore on last years.
01-20-2021, 07:38 PM
(01-19-2021, 04:13 PM)Hulk01 Wrote: Three bad in bounds passes against Utah,
two by Lacie and one by Haley.
Team in general does not pass the ball well. Some are just sloppy, lazy passes and others are simply trying to make passes to someone who is not open, particularly when trying to get the ball inside. We also try to force the ball inside too often by driving into the lane where there is no where to go leaving the player with an impossible shot or a turnover. Since teams seem determined to take away our inside game, we ought to move the ball around the perimeter much faster. Too often a player gets it, looks for a pass inside, or a lane to drive, and then passes it on putting little pressure on the defense.
(01-19-2021, 04:13 PM)Hulk01 Wrote: Three bad in bounds passes against Utah,
two by Lacie and one by Haley.
Team in general does not pass the ball well. Some are just sloppy, lazy passes and others are simply trying to make passes to someone who is not open, particularly when trying to get the ball inside. We also try to force the ball inside too often by driving into the lane where there is no where to go leaving the player with an impossible shot or a turnover. Since teams seem determined to take away our inside game, we ought to move the ball around the perimeter much faster. Too often a player gets it, looks for a pass inside, or a lane to drive, and then passes it on putting little pressure on the defense.
(01-20-2021, 07:38 PM)GK3 Wrote:I have seen what you observed too, but it can be a bit deceptive. With the Princeton there is a premium on making passes to a player cutting to the basket, and some of those passes fail, are deflected etc. Otherwise we would just endlessly pass the ball around the perimeter--something this board has widely criticized. The hope is that the times the inside passes lead to scores will greatly outnumber the times they lead to turnovers--but if teams pack the paint then we can't pass inside and need to shoot threes.(01-19-2021, 04:13 PM)Hulk01 Wrote: Three bad in bounds passes against Utah,
two by Lacie and one by Haley.
Team in general does not pass the ball well. Some are just sloppy, lazy passes and others are simply trying to make passes to someone who is not open, particularly when trying to get the ball inside. We also try to force the ball inside too often by driving into the lane where there is no where to go leaving the player with an impossible shot or a turnover. Since teams seem determined to take away our inside game, we ought to move the ball around the perimeter much faster. Too often a player gets it, looks for a pass inside, or a lane to drive, and then passes it on putting little pressure on the defense.
What we are doing this year is generally working.
Last year we had 14.6 assists per game. This year 18.6--a big increase. That is a sign of a good passing team--perhaps the best we have been in years. I looked back 10 years and this is the highest assists per game we have had in that time. No year was above 15 until you get back to 2010-11 which was at 17. That was the year of the two Ogwumikes, Pohlen, Pedersen,
Turnovers are down a little from a year ago. Last year was 13.7 turns per game, this year 13.0.
All that said, I did not think that either last year or this year that our inbounds plays were as good as they should be. We had games last year too where we gave the ball over on inbounds passes. That is clearly a part of our game that needs to improve.
In our one loss this year our offense was good enough. We were having an off night shooting and still scored 72 points. I put the Colorado loss pretty much entirely on our defense, which allowed a season high in points against us by a long ways. The offense can be better, but it would not have mattered if our defense played an average game. It didn't, and that is most concerning. Cori Close has watched our Colorado game probably about five times by now to pinpoint what she can do.
(01-20-2021, 07:38 PM)GK3 Wrote:I have seen what you observed too, but it can be a bit deceptive. With the Princeton there is a premium on making passes to a player cutting to the basket, and some of those passes fail, are deflected etc. Otherwise we would just endlessly pass the ball around the perimeter--something this board has widely criticized. The hope is that the times the inside passes lead to scores will greatly outnumber the times they lead to turnovers--but if teams pack the paint then we can't pass inside and need to shoot threes.(01-19-2021, 04:13 PM)Hulk01 Wrote: Three bad in bounds passes against Utah,
two by Lacie and one by Haley.
Team in general does not pass the ball well. Some are just sloppy, lazy passes and others are simply trying to make passes to someone who is not open, particularly when trying to get the ball inside. We also try to force the ball inside too often by driving into the lane where there is no where to go leaving the player with an impossible shot or a turnover. Since teams seem determined to take away our inside game, we ought to move the ball around the perimeter much faster. Too often a player gets it, looks for a pass inside, or a lane to drive, and then passes it on putting little pressure on the defense.
What we are doing this year is generally working.
Last year we had 14.6 assists per game. This year 18.6--a big increase. That is a sign of a good passing team--perhaps the best we have been in years. I looked back 10 years and this is the highest assists per game we have had in that time. No year was above 15 until you get back to 2010-11 which was at 17. That was the year of the two Ogwumikes, Pohlen, Pedersen,
Turnovers are down a little from a year ago. Last year was 13.7 turns per game, this year 13.0.
All that said, I did not think that either last year or this year that our inbounds plays were as good as they should be. We had games last year too where we gave the ball over on inbounds passes. That is clearly a part of our game that needs to improve.
In our one loss this year our offense was good enough. We were having an off night shooting and still scored 72 points. I put the Colorado loss pretty much entirely on our defense, which allowed a season high in points against us by a long ways. The offense can be better, but it would not have mattered if our defense played an average game. It didn't, and that is most concerning. Cori Close has watched our Colorado game probably about five times by now to pinpoint what she can do.
01-20-2021, 10:36 PM
(01-20-2021, 09:42 PM)81alum Wrote:(01-20-2021, 07:38 PM)GK3 Wrote:I have seen what you observed too, but it can be a bit deceptive. With the Princeton there is a premium on making passes to a player cutting to the basket, and some of those passes fail, are deflected etc. Otherwise we would just endlessly pass the ball around the perimeter--something this board has widely criticized. The hope is that the times the inside passes lead to scores will greatly outnumber the times they lead to turnovers--but if teams pack the paint then we can't pass inside and need to shoot threes.(01-19-2021, 04:13 PM)Hulk01 Wrote: Three bad in bounds passes against Utah,
two by Lacie and one by Haley.
Team in general does not pass the ball well. Some are just sloppy, lazy passes and others are simply trying to make passes to someone who is not open, particularly when trying to get the ball inside. We also try to force the ball inside too often by driving into the lane where there is no where to go leaving the player with an impossible shot or a turnover. Since teams seem determined to take away our inside game, we ought to move the ball around the perimeter much faster. Too often a player gets it, looks for a pass inside, or a lane to drive, and then passes it on putting little pressure on the defense.
What we are doing this year is generally working.
Last year we had 14.6 assists per game. This year 18.6--a big increase. That is a sign of a good passing team--perhaps the best we have been in years. I looked back 10 years and this is the highest assists per game we have had in that time. No year was above 15 until you get back to 2010-11 which was at 17. That was the year of the two Ogwumikes, Pohlen, Pedersen,
Turnovers are down a little from a year ago. Last year was 13.7 turns per game, this year 13.0.
All that said, I did not think that either last year or this year that our inbounds plays were as good as they should be. We had games last year too where we gave the ball over on inbounds passes. That is clearly a part of our game that needs to improve.
In our one loss this year our offense was good enough. We were having an off night shooting and still scored 72 points. I put the Colorado loss pretty much entirely on our defense, which allowed a season high in points against us by a long ways. The offense can be better, but it would not have mattered if our defense played an average game. It didn't, and that is most concerning. Cori Close has watched our Colorado game probably about five times by now to pinpoint what she can do.
Agreed. Teams that pass more and try to get the ball inside will have some turnovers. Some of the turnovers are the result of "forcing it" but that is generally a hindsight conclusion about a pass that didn't work. The ones that do work, even if risky, are never called out as "forcing it." It is a very difficult, fine line to determine and the players can't be perfect in live competition. I love the fact that we are passing a lot and getting the ball to our post players pretty regularly. The turnovers that are easier to legitimately critique are those like the inbounds pass from Wilson to Williams that likely cost us the game. I think the team will learn from that because it came at so late in the game.
Cheers,
Pete F.
(01-20-2021, 09:42 PM)81alum Wrote:(01-20-2021, 07:38 PM)GK3 Wrote:I have seen what you observed too, but it can be a bit deceptive. With the Princeton there is a premium on making passes to a player cutting to the basket, and some of those passes fail, are deflected etc. Otherwise we would just endlessly pass the ball around the perimeter--something this board has widely criticized. The hope is that the times the inside passes lead to scores will greatly outnumber the times they lead to turnovers--but if teams pack the paint then we can't pass inside and need to shoot threes.(01-19-2021, 04:13 PM)Hulk01 Wrote: Three bad in bounds passes against Utah,
two by Lacie and one by Haley.
Team in general does not pass the ball well. Some are just sloppy, lazy passes and others are simply trying to make passes to someone who is not open, particularly when trying to get the ball inside. We also try to force the ball inside too often by driving into the lane where there is no where to go leaving the player with an impossible shot or a turnover. Since teams seem determined to take away our inside game, we ought to move the ball around the perimeter much faster. Too often a player gets it, looks for a pass inside, or a lane to drive, and then passes it on putting little pressure on the defense.
What we are doing this year is generally working.
Last year we had 14.6 assists per game. This year 18.6--a big increase. That is a sign of a good passing team--perhaps the best we have been in years. I looked back 10 years and this is the highest assists per game we have had in that time. No year was above 15 until you get back to 2010-11 which was at 17. That was the year of the two Ogwumikes, Pohlen, Pedersen,
Turnovers are down a little from a year ago. Last year was 13.7 turns per game, this year 13.0.
All that said, I did not think that either last year or this year that our inbounds plays were as good as they should be. We had games last year too where we gave the ball over on inbounds passes. That is clearly a part of our game that needs to improve.
In our one loss this year our offense was good enough. We were having an off night shooting and still scored 72 points. I put the Colorado loss pretty much entirely on our defense, which allowed a season high in points against us by a long ways. The offense can be better, but it would not have mattered if our defense played an average game. It didn't, and that is most concerning. Cori Close has watched our Colorado game probably about five times by now to pinpoint what she can do.
Agreed. Teams that pass more and try to get the ball inside will have some turnovers. Some of the turnovers are the result of "forcing it" but that is generally a hindsight conclusion about a pass that didn't work. The ones that do work, even if risky, are never called out as "forcing it." It is a very difficult, fine line to determine and the players can't be perfect in live competition. I love the fact that we are passing a lot and getting the ball to our post players pretty regularly. The turnovers that are easier to legitimately critique are those like the inbounds pass from Wilson to Williams that likely cost us the game. I think the team will learn from that because it came at so late in the game.
Cheers,
Pete F.
01-20-2021, 11:26 PM
To put it another way, passing around the perimeter and then forcing a poor shot as the shot clock runs out isn't considered a turnover, but has the same effect.
BC
BC
To put it another way, passing around the perimeter and then forcing a poor shot as the shot clock runs out isn't considered a turnover, but has the same effect.
BC
BC
I would have to disagree with these recent posts (at least in part).
I don't think the only choice should be between endlessly passing the ball around the perimeter and then throwing up something before the shot clock expires or forcing low percentage passes into the paint. As a team of highly talented players with a Hall of Fame coach, surely there would be other options than those two conclusions.
Though I agree that our defense was partially to blame for the loss, as we were unable to defend against Hollingshed and 67 points given up during regulation was the most points we surrendered, it wasn't as if Colorado scored 80-90 points during the first 40 minutes.
Also, though our season turnovers are slightly down from last season, we've actually averaged nearly 15 turnovers in conference play. Besides our good games turnover wise against USC and Utah where we had 9 each, in all but one of the other 7 conference games, we've had at least 15 turnovers in each contest.
I went back and looked up the 15 turnovers we had in the Colorado game and found a recording of the game to compare it against:
1Q:
4:18 - Lexie was driving to the basket and had the ball poked away from her
2:30 - Haley tried to pass the ball into a stationary Cameron in the paint but there was a Colorado defender in front of Cameron that easily picked it off
1:51 - Cameron was driving to the basket and had the ball poked away
2Q:
9:39 - A pass to Kiana bounced off her feet and went into the other half of the court for a violation
6:32 - Haley was too overeager driving to the basket and traveled
1:45 - Haley tried bounce passing the ball to Lexie who was cutting to the basket but through two defenders and was picked off
3Q:
7:25 - On a fast break, Haley barreled into a defender who was set up in the paint instead of trying to go around her leading to a charge call
7:00 - The cameras missed it, but the announcers described it as a Colorado player deflecting the inbound pass off of a Stanford player out of bounds
4:57 - Haley tried to pass it into Ashten who was fighting for position in the paint but I felt like Ashten didn't have position yet and the Colorado defender was still in front of her which led to her picking off the past
4Q:
8:40 - Cameron was holding the ball trying to figure out what to do next and the ball got poked out of her hands
7:53 - Kiana tried passing it into Fran who wasn't cutting to the basket but threw it too high and the Colorado player caught it
4:54 - Anna was driving and slipped and lost control of the ball
2:21 - Haley tried passing the ball into Cameron who wasn't cutting, but the Colorado defender got an arm in front of Brink and deflected the ball to a teammate
0:24 - Anna's inbound pass to Kiana is stolen for an easy fast break layup
OT:
3:39 - Shot clock violation (we could not score despite a couple of offensive rebounds)
Some turnovers are unavoidable in a live ball game situation (and some of it was due to execution) and you have to credit the Colorado D, but I feel like for a handful of them, we could have made a better decision.
I don't think the only choice should be between endlessly passing the ball around the perimeter and then throwing up something before the shot clock expires or forcing low percentage passes into the paint. As a team of highly talented players with a Hall of Fame coach, surely there would be other options than those two conclusions.
Though I agree that our defense was partially to blame for the loss, as we were unable to defend against Hollingshed and 67 points given up during regulation was the most points we surrendered, it wasn't as if Colorado scored 80-90 points during the first 40 minutes.
Also, though our season turnovers are slightly down from last season, we've actually averaged nearly 15 turnovers in conference play. Besides our good games turnover wise against USC and Utah where we had 9 each, in all but one of the other 7 conference games, we've had at least 15 turnovers in each contest.
I went back and looked up the 15 turnovers we had in the Colorado game and found a recording of the game to compare it against:
1Q:
4:18 - Lexie was driving to the basket and had the ball poked away from her
2:30 - Haley tried to pass the ball into a stationary Cameron in the paint but there was a Colorado defender in front of Cameron that easily picked it off
1:51 - Cameron was driving to the basket and had the ball poked away
2Q:
9:39 - A pass to Kiana bounced off her feet and went into the other half of the court for a violation
6:32 - Haley was too overeager driving to the basket and traveled
1:45 - Haley tried bounce passing the ball to Lexie who was cutting to the basket but through two defenders and was picked off
3Q:
7:25 - On a fast break, Haley barreled into a defender who was set up in the paint instead of trying to go around her leading to a charge call
7:00 - The cameras missed it, but the announcers described it as a Colorado player deflecting the inbound pass off of a Stanford player out of bounds
4:57 - Haley tried to pass it into Ashten who was fighting for position in the paint but I felt like Ashten didn't have position yet and the Colorado defender was still in front of her which led to her picking off the past
4Q:
8:40 - Cameron was holding the ball trying to figure out what to do next and the ball got poked out of her hands
7:53 - Kiana tried passing it into Fran who wasn't cutting to the basket but threw it too high and the Colorado player caught it
4:54 - Anna was driving and slipped and lost control of the ball
2:21 - Haley tried passing the ball into Cameron who wasn't cutting, but the Colorado defender got an arm in front of Brink and deflected the ball to a teammate
0:24 - Anna's inbound pass to Kiana is stolen for an easy fast break layup
OT:
3:39 - Shot clock violation (we could not score despite a couple of offensive rebounds)
Some turnovers are unavoidable in a live ball game situation (and some of it was due to execution) and you have to credit the Colorado D, but I feel like for a handful of them, we could have made a better decision.
(This post was last modified: 01-21-2021, 05:03 AM by TheFarm07.)
I would have to disagree with these recent posts (at least in part).
I don't think the only choice should be between endlessly passing the ball around the perimeter and then throwing up something before the shot clock expires or forcing low percentage passes into the paint. As a team of highly talented players with a Hall of Fame coach, surely there would be other options than those two conclusions.
Though I agree that our defense was partially to blame for the loss, as we were unable to defend against Hollingshed and 67 points given up during regulation was the most points we surrendered, it wasn't as if Colorado scored 80-90 points during the first 40 minutes.
Also, though our season turnovers are slightly down from last season, we've actually averaged nearly 15 turnovers in conference play. Besides our good games turnover wise against USC and Utah where we had 9 each, in all but one of the other 7 conference games, we've had at least 15 turnovers in each contest.
I went back and looked up the 15 turnovers we had in the Colorado game and found a recording of the game to compare it against:
1Q:
4:18 - Lexie was driving to the basket and had the ball poked away from her
2:30 - Haley tried to pass the ball into a stationary Cameron in the paint but there was a Colorado defender in front of Cameron that easily picked it off
1:51 - Cameron was driving to the basket and had the ball poked away
2Q:
9:39 - A pass to Kiana bounced off her feet and went into the other half of the court for a violation
6:32 - Haley was too overeager driving to the basket and traveled
1:45 - Haley tried bounce passing the ball to Lexie who was cutting to the basket but through two defenders and was picked off
3Q:
7:25 - On a fast break, Haley barreled into a defender who was set up in the paint instead of trying to go around her leading to a charge call
7:00 - The cameras missed it, but the announcers described it as a Colorado player deflecting the inbound pass off of a Stanford player out of bounds
4:57 - Haley tried to pass it into Ashten who was fighting for position in the paint but I felt like Ashten didn't have position yet and the Colorado defender was still in front of her which led to her picking off the past
4Q:
8:40 - Cameron was holding the ball trying to figure out what to do next and the ball got poked out of her hands
7:53 - Kiana tried passing it into Fran who wasn't cutting to the basket but threw it too high and the Colorado player caught it
4:54 - Anna was driving and slipped and lost control of the ball
2:21 - Haley tried passing the ball into Cameron who wasn't cutting, but the Colorado defender got an arm in front of Brink and deflected the ball to a teammate
0:24 - Anna's inbound pass to Kiana is stolen for an easy fast break layup
OT:
3:39 - Shot clock violation (we could not score despite a couple of offensive rebounds)
Some turnovers are unavoidable in a live ball game situation (and some of it was due to execution) and you have to credit the Colorado D, but I feel like for a handful of them, we could have made a better decision.
I don't think the only choice should be between endlessly passing the ball around the perimeter and then throwing up something before the shot clock expires or forcing low percentage passes into the paint. As a team of highly talented players with a Hall of Fame coach, surely there would be other options than those two conclusions.
Though I agree that our defense was partially to blame for the loss, as we were unable to defend against Hollingshed and 67 points given up during regulation was the most points we surrendered, it wasn't as if Colorado scored 80-90 points during the first 40 minutes.
Also, though our season turnovers are slightly down from last season, we've actually averaged nearly 15 turnovers in conference play. Besides our good games turnover wise against USC and Utah where we had 9 each, in all but one of the other 7 conference games, we've had at least 15 turnovers in each contest.
I went back and looked up the 15 turnovers we had in the Colorado game and found a recording of the game to compare it against:
1Q:
4:18 - Lexie was driving to the basket and had the ball poked away from her
2:30 - Haley tried to pass the ball into a stationary Cameron in the paint but there was a Colorado defender in front of Cameron that easily picked it off
1:51 - Cameron was driving to the basket and had the ball poked away
2Q:
9:39 - A pass to Kiana bounced off her feet and went into the other half of the court for a violation
6:32 - Haley was too overeager driving to the basket and traveled
1:45 - Haley tried bounce passing the ball to Lexie who was cutting to the basket but through two defenders and was picked off
3Q:
7:25 - On a fast break, Haley barreled into a defender who was set up in the paint instead of trying to go around her leading to a charge call
7:00 - The cameras missed it, but the announcers described it as a Colorado player deflecting the inbound pass off of a Stanford player out of bounds
4:57 - Haley tried to pass it into Ashten who was fighting for position in the paint but I felt like Ashten didn't have position yet and the Colorado defender was still in front of her which led to her picking off the past
4Q:
8:40 - Cameron was holding the ball trying to figure out what to do next and the ball got poked out of her hands
7:53 - Kiana tried passing it into Fran who wasn't cutting to the basket but threw it too high and the Colorado player caught it
4:54 - Anna was driving and slipped and lost control of the ball
2:21 - Haley tried passing the ball into Cameron who wasn't cutting, but the Colorado defender got an arm in front of Brink and deflected the ball to a teammate
0:24 - Anna's inbound pass to Kiana is stolen for an easy fast break layup
OT:
3:39 - Shot clock violation (we could not score despite a couple of offensive rebounds)
Some turnovers are unavoidable in a live ball game situation (and some of it was due to execution) and you have to credit the Colorado D, but I feel like for a handful of them, we could have made a better decision.
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