01-30-2021, 08:23 PM
Unless they gat the two hurt guys back forget it. The two kids in the backcourt play hard but they can’t defend quick athletic guards.
MBB LOSS @ ASU
01-30-2021, 08:23 PM
Da Silva was fouled on the floor and on his shot.
Does the conference review referees? So much awful refereeing in this league and it never gets better.
Does the conference review referees? So much awful refereeing in this league and it never gets better.
01-30-2021, 08:25 PM
(01-30-2021, 08:21 PM)PVTree Wrote: A disappointing loss after unexpected wins. Jekyll and Hyde.
This was not on our team. They were getting mugged up and down the court all night. Sure we shoot poorly from 3, but we made 31-34 free throws. We should have won this game if it was called correctly.
Put a glide in your stride and a dip in your hip.
(01-30-2021, 08:21 PM)PVTree Wrote: A disappointing loss after unexpected wins. Jekyll and Hyde.
This was not on our team. They were getting mugged up and down the court all night. Sure we shoot poorly from 3, but we made 31-34 free throws. We should have won this game if it was called correctly.
Put a glide in your stride and a dip in your hip.
01-30-2021, 08:30 PM
In what universe do you review that call using replay, and still call goaltending? I can see making a mistake in real time, but with replay, this is inexcusable. Spencer Jones fouls him, sure, but the ball already bounces off the backboard and is going completely away from the basket when Delaire hits it again. It is just a wild carom, not a goaltend. This is one of the worst calls I have ever seen. So instead of a 60% free throw shooter having to make shots with pressure down 1, they give them the bucket and the free throw?
There was also a clean block by Da Silva just before that as well that gave ASU the lead just before that. And Da Silva is clearly fouled on the rebound of his own shot at the end, but again no call.
The Pac-12 refs know how to shoot the conference in the foot because ASU is definitely not making the tourney, and Stanford is on the bubble. What a joke.
There was also a clean block by Da Silva just before that as well that gave ASU the lead just before that. And Da Silva is clearly fouled on the rebound of his own shot at the end, but again no call.
The Pac-12 refs know how to shoot the conference in the foot because ASU is definitely not making the tourney, and Stanford is on the bubble. What a joke.
In what universe do you review that call using replay, and still call goaltending? I can see making a mistake in real time, but with replay, this is inexcusable. Spencer Jones fouls him, sure, but the ball already bounces off the backboard and is going completely away from the basket when Delaire hits it again. It is just a wild carom, not a goaltend. This is one of the worst calls I have ever seen. So instead of a 60% free throw shooter having to make shots with pressure down 1, they give them the bucket and the free throw?
There was also a clean block by Da Silva just before that as well that gave ASU the lead just before that. And Da Silva is clearly fouled on the rebound of his own shot at the end, but again no call.
The Pac-12 refs know how to shoot the conference in the foot because ASU is definitely not making the tourney, and Stanford is on the bubble. What a joke.
There was also a clean block by Da Silva just before that as well that gave ASU the lead just before that. And Da Silva is clearly fouled on the rebound of his own shot at the end, but again no call.
The Pac-12 refs know how to shoot the conference in the foot because ASU is definitely not making the tourney, and Stanford is on the bubble. What a joke.
01-30-2021, 08:32 PM
(01-30-2021, 08:25 PM)martyup Wrote:(01-30-2021, 08:21 PM)PVTree Wrote: A disappointing loss after unexpected wins. Jekyll and Hyde.
This was not on our team. They were getting mugged up and down the court all night. Sure we shoot poorly from 3, but we made 31-34 free throws. We should have won this game if it was called correctly.
I'm abroad and can only follow the game through tracker. I just kept seeing turnover after turnover pop up on the game flow.
(01-30-2021, 08:25 PM)martyup Wrote:(01-30-2021, 08:21 PM)PVTree Wrote: A disappointing loss after unexpected wins. Jekyll and Hyde.
This was not on our team. They were getting mugged up and down the court all night. Sure we shoot poorly from 3, but we made 31-34 free throws. We should have won this game if it was called correctly.
I'm abroad and can only follow the game through tracker. I just kept seeing turnover after turnover pop up on the game flow.
01-30-2021, 08:48 PM
(This post was last modified: 01-30-2021, 08:49 PM by Spiny_Norman.)
(01-30-2021, 08:25 PM)martyup Wrote:(01-30-2021, 08:21 PM)PVTree Wrote: A disappointing loss after unexpected wins. Jekyll and Hyde.
This was not on our team. They were getting mugged up and down the court all night. Sure we shoot poorly from 3, but we made 31-34 free throws. We should have won this game if it was called correctly.
Under Hurley, ASU plays aggressive defense. They play like he played. I think they believe they have a quickness advantage against Stanford so they press all game. Stanford tried to adjust by playing Taitz for Kisunas. You might have noticed at various times that Haase brought in walk-ons Beskind and Begovich to give Taitz and O'Connell a break. ASU recognized this and their guards just abused Stanford's guards for a while. Stanford really needed depth at guard today and just did not have it because of the injuries. Probably just as well that we only play ASU once in the regular season.
Now to get ready for 5 straight games in the Bay Area - 4 at home and one at Berkeley. First up - USC on Tuesday.
"We have an unwritten rule around here not to do anything stupid."
-Casey Jacobsen, Feb 3, 2000
(This post was last modified: 01-30-2021, 08:49 PM by Spiny_Norman.)
(01-30-2021, 08:25 PM)martyup Wrote:(01-30-2021, 08:21 PM)PVTree Wrote: A disappointing loss after unexpected wins. Jekyll and Hyde.
This was not on our team. They were getting mugged up and down the court all night. Sure we shoot poorly from 3, but we made 31-34 free throws. We should have won this game if it was called correctly.
Under Hurley, ASU plays aggressive defense. They play like he played. I think they believe they have a quickness advantage against Stanford so they press all game. Stanford tried to adjust by playing Taitz for Kisunas. You might have noticed at various times that Haase brought in walk-ons Beskind and Begovich to give Taitz and O'Connell a break. ASU recognized this and their guards just abused Stanford's guards for a while. Stanford really needed depth at guard today and just did not have it because of the injuries. Probably just as well that we only play ASU once in the regular season.
Now to get ready for 5 straight games in the Bay Area - 4 at home and one at Berkeley. First up - USC on Tuesday.
"We have an unwritten rule around here not to do anything stupid."
-Casey Jacobsen, Feb 3, 2000
Yes, I saw Beskind in there a couple of times and was surprised. And I noticed ASU going at him. I missed that Begovich got in. It makes sense that Haase was trying to buy a little rest for O'Connell and Taitz.
(This post was last modified: 01-30-2021, 08:56 PM by CompSci87.)
Yes, I saw Beskind in there a couple of times and was surprised. And I noticed ASU going at him. I missed that Begovich got in. It makes sense that Haase was trying to buy a little rest for O'Connell and Taitz.
01-30-2021, 09:10 PM
The highlight of the game was when Hurley threw a McEnroe-like temper tantrum, jumping up and down on the court and fell on his butt as the ref T'ed him up.
Put a glide in your stride and a dip in your hip.
01-30-2021, 10:26 PM
I agree with what others are saying about the goal tending call. And after a review? Even if there is somehow a way that "technically" it was goal tending, I still don't see who in their right mind would actually make that call. That ball had zero chance of hitting the rim.
Whatever, the game was ours if we would have 1) Taken care of the ball just a little better or 2) Shot it anywhere close to a reasonable % from 3.
Does anyone know the status of Davis, Wills, or Ziaire?
Is it a tough call who to start at point once Daejon returns? IMO, O'Connell has earned the spot over Davis. 1) Neither are good shooters, plus Daejon shoots it more with worse shot selection (which is not a good thing for the other players on the court). That said, Daejon does get to the line a lot more often. 2) O'Connell much better at running the team, taking care of the ball, and making the correct reads. In this regard, I believe he's the better point guard in the traditional sense. 3) Daejon has the edge on defense, and in rebounding and steals stats. But I don't think O'Connell is bad in these areas and it's not enough IMO to overcome Daejon's other deficiencies. Finally, I think the other guys on the court benefit from O'Connell at PG. He gets everyone involved, doesn't overdribble, is more disciplined, unselfish, etc. Personally, I get the sense we are a better team with him at the helm. Maybe it's just my bias as a fan of pass-first point guards.
Whatever, the game was ours if we would have 1) Taken care of the ball just a little better or 2) Shot it anywhere close to a reasonable % from 3.
Does anyone know the status of Davis, Wills, or Ziaire?
Is it a tough call who to start at point once Daejon returns? IMO, O'Connell has earned the spot over Davis. 1) Neither are good shooters, plus Daejon shoots it more with worse shot selection (which is not a good thing for the other players on the court). That said, Daejon does get to the line a lot more often. 2) O'Connell much better at running the team, taking care of the ball, and making the correct reads. In this regard, I believe he's the better point guard in the traditional sense. 3) Daejon has the edge on defense, and in rebounding and steals stats. But I don't think O'Connell is bad in these areas and it's not enough IMO to overcome Daejon's other deficiencies. Finally, I think the other guys on the court benefit from O'Connell at PG. He gets everyone involved, doesn't overdribble, is more disciplined, unselfish, etc. Personally, I get the sense we are a better team with him at the helm. Maybe it's just my bias as a fan of pass-first point guards.
I agree with what others are saying about the goal tending call. And after a review? Even if there is somehow a way that "technically" it was goal tending, I still don't see who in their right mind would actually make that call. That ball had zero chance of hitting the rim.
Whatever, the game was ours if we would have 1) Taken care of the ball just a little better or 2) Shot it anywhere close to a reasonable % from 3.
Does anyone know the status of Davis, Wills, or Ziaire?
Is it a tough call who to start at point once Daejon returns? IMO, O'Connell has earned the spot over Davis. 1) Neither are good shooters, plus Daejon shoots it more with worse shot selection (which is not a good thing for the other players on the court). That said, Daejon does get to the line a lot more often. 2) O'Connell much better at running the team, taking care of the ball, and making the correct reads. In this regard, I believe he's the better point guard in the traditional sense. 3) Daejon has the edge on defense, and in rebounding and steals stats. But I don't think O'Connell is bad in these areas and it's not enough IMO to overcome Daejon's other deficiencies. Finally, I think the other guys on the court benefit from O'Connell at PG. He gets everyone involved, doesn't overdribble, is more disciplined, unselfish, etc. Personally, I get the sense we are a better team with him at the helm. Maybe it's just my bias as a fan of pass-first point guards.
Whatever, the game was ours if we would have 1) Taken care of the ball just a little better or 2) Shot it anywhere close to a reasonable % from 3.
Does anyone know the status of Davis, Wills, or Ziaire?
Is it a tough call who to start at point once Daejon returns? IMO, O'Connell has earned the spot over Davis. 1) Neither are good shooters, plus Daejon shoots it more with worse shot selection (which is not a good thing for the other players on the court). That said, Daejon does get to the line a lot more often. 2) O'Connell much better at running the team, taking care of the ball, and making the correct reads. In this regard, I believe he's the better point guard in the traditional sense. 3) Daejon has the edge on defense, and in rebounding and steals stats. But I don't think O'Connell is bad in these areas and it's not enough IMO to overcome Daejon's other deficiencies. Finally, I think the other guys on the court benefit from O'Connell at PG. He gets everyone involved, doesn't overdribble, is more disciplined, unselfish, etc. Personally, I get the sense we are a better team with him at the helm. Maybe it's just my bias as a fan of pass-first point guards.
01-30-2021, 10:37 PM
(01-30-2021, 08:55 PM)CompSci87 Wrote: Yes, I saw Beskind in there a couple of times and was surprised. And I noticed ASU going at him. I missed that Begovich got in. It makes sense that Haase was trying to buy a little rest for O'Connell and Taitz.
Neither Begovich saw the floor, but yes Beskind was getting torched by Remy Martin. Coach Haase probably had to go to him for more guard depth cuz there are 3 games next week and they just played AZ 2 days ago.
(01-30-2021, 08:55 PM)CompSci87 Wrote: Yes, I saw Beskind in there a couple of times and was surprised. And I noticed ASU going at him. I missed that Begovich got in. It makes sense that Haase was trying to buy a little rest for O'Connell and Taitz.
Neither Begovich saw the floor, but yes Beskind was getting torched by Remy Martin. Coach Haase probably had to go to him for more guard depth cuz there are 3 games next week and they just played AZ 2 days ago.
01-31-2021, 07:15 AM
The conference refs have been terrible for decades. Live with it. What beat Stanford were the turnovers including one of the most egregious ones in history, Taitz freezing when committing a ten second violation.
01-31-2021, 08:12 AM
To paraphrase more than one of my coaches as I was growing up, if you need the refs to decide the outcome you've already lost.
Yeah the officiating was bad, but the reasons we lost were perimeter defense and turnovers. We missed Davis & Wills last night, especially on defense. And also don't forget ASU has two players (Bagley & Christopher) who are projected first-round draft picks. They have a lot of talent and they moved the ball really fast last night.
I question not resting O'Connell (and Taitz) enough in the first half so that they could play the entire second half. It's clear their backups are not yet ready for D1 hoops. Hopefully they will be next season.
Sounds like Williams is not yet back in CA yet so he hasn't even begun his quarantine (10 or 14 days?). So not likely we will see him until President's Day weekend at the earliest. I really wish we had some kind of indication on the extent of Davis' & Wills' injuries. I guess we should assume that since they aren't having surgery and haven't been announced as out for the season that there's at least some chance they come back?
Yeah the officiating was bad, but the reasons we lost were perimeter defense and turnovers. We missed Davis & Wills last night, especially on defense. And also don't forget ASU has two players (Bagley & Christopher) who are projected first-round draft picks. They have a lot of talent and they moved the ball really fast last night.
I question not resting O'Connell (and Taitz) enough in the first half so that they could play the entire second half. It's clear their backups are not yet ready for D1 hoops. Hopefully they will be next season.
Sounds like Williams is not yet back in CA yet so he hasn't even begun his quarantine (10 or 14 days?). So not likely we will see him until President's Day weekend at the earliest. I really wish we had some kind of indication on the extent of Davis' & Wills' injuries. I guess we should assume that since they aren't having surgery and haven't been announced as out for the season that there's at least some chance they come back?
To paraphrase more than one of my coaches as I was growing up, if you need the refs to decide the outcome you've already lost.
Yeah the officiating was bad, but the reasons we lost were perimeter defense and turnovers. We missed Davis & Wills last night, especially on defense. And also don't forget ASU has two players (Bagley & Christopher) who are projected first-round draft picks. They have a lot of talent and they moved the ball really fast last night.
I question not resting O'Connell (and Taitz) enough in the first half so that they could play the entire second half. It's clear their backups are not yet ready for D1 hoops. Hopefully they will be next season.
Sounds like Williams is not yet back in CA yet so he hasn't even begun his quarantine (10 or 14 days?). So not likely we will see him until President's Day weekend at the earliest. I really wish we had some kind of indication on the extent of Davis' & Wills' injuries. I guess we should assume that since they aren't having surgery and haven't been announced as out for the season that there's at least some chance they come back?
Yeah the officiating was bad, but the reasons we lost were perimeter defense and turnovers. We missed Davis & Wills last night, especially on defense. And also don't forget ASU has two players (Bagley & Christopher) who are projected first-round draft picks. They have a lot of talent and they moved the ball really fast last night.
I question not resting O'Connell (and Taitz) enough in the first half so that they could play the entire second half. It's clear their backups are not yet ready for D1 hoops. Hopefully they will be next season.
Sounds like Williams is not yet back in CA yet so he hasn't even begun his quarantine (10 or 14 days?). So not likely we will see him until President's Day weekend at the earliest. I really wish we had some kind of indication on the extent of Davis' & Wills' injuries. I guess we should assume that since they aren't having surgery and haven't been announced as out for the season that there's at least some chance they come back?
01-31-2021, 02:41 PM
It's hard to consistently win when you're lousy at making threes. Stanford now ranks 281st nationally in three-point field-goal percentage at 30.51%.
There are some NCAA bubble teams in the same neighborhood (St. Bonaventure at 30..49%, North Carolina at 30.48), so that's not necessarily something that's impossible to overcome.
I think a lack of backcourt depth is what is troubling this team the most, at least at the moment.
There are some NCAA bubble teams in the same neighborhood (St. Bonaventure at 30..49%, North Carolina at 30.48), so that's not necessarily something that's impossible to overcome.
I think a lack of backcourt depth is what is troubling this team the most, at least at the moment.
It's hard to consistently win when you're lousy at making threes. Stanford now ranks 281st nationally in three-point field-goal percentage at 30.51%.
There are some NCAA bubble teams in the same neighborhood (St. Bonaventure at 30..49%, North Carolina at 30.48), so that's not necessarily something that's impossible to overcome.
I think a lack of backcourt depth is what is troubling this team the most, at least at the moment.
There are some NCAA bubble teams in the same neighborhood (St. Bonaventure at 30..49%, North Carolina at 30.48), so that's not necessarily something that's impossible to overcome.
I think a lack of backcourt depth is what is troubling this team the most, at least at the moment.
01-31-2021, 02:47 PM
Yeah, the team could really do with a Dion Cross, Chris Weems, or Ryan Mendez.
BC
BC
Yeah, the team could really do with a Dion Cross, Chris Weems, or Ryan Mendez.
BC
BC
01-31-2021, 03:40 PM
Arthur Lee, please! Taitz 10 second violation was typical of a turnover filled night. Time to thump on the trojans and start the Maples win streak. If we can make the Dance and get our back court back, I like our chances for a nice run.
01-31-2021, 04:05 PM
(01-31-2021, 03:40 PM)Treebound Wrote: Arthur Lee, please! Taitz 10 second violation was typical of a turnover filled night. Time to thump on the trojans and start the Maples win streak. If we can make the Dance and get our back court back, I like our chances for a nice run.
Taitz wasn’t the only one this season. O’Connell had at least one violation and also cut it close on many occasions, whether by design or not. I’m often feeling like I’m watching our football team and worrying about DOGs!
(01-31-2021, 03:40 PM)Treebound Wrote: Arthur Lee, please! Taitz 10 second violation was typical of a turnover filled night. Time to thump on the trojans and start the Maples win streak. If we can make the Dance and get our back court back, I like our chances for a nice run.
Taitz wasn’t the only one this season. O’Connell had at least one violation and also cut it close on many occasions, whether by design or not. I’m often feeling like I’m watching our football team and worrying about DOGs!
01-31-2021, 04:37 PM
I figure if Stanford were to at least split the $¢ games, sweep cal and the Washington schools, and split each of the Oregon and mountain games, that'd put a few more decent wins on the resume and put the team at 17-8 before the conference tourney, by which time ZW will be back and hopefully at least one of the injured guards. Given the relatively friendly remaining schedule, I think that's a pretty attainable scenario for getting to the tourney, unless Stanford were to lose the first P12 tourney game.
I figure if Stanford were to at least split the $¢ games, sweep cal and the Washington schools, and split each of the Oregon and mountain games, that'd put a few more decent wins on the resume and put the team at 17-8 before the conference tourney, by which time ZW will be back and hopefully at least one of the injured guards. Given the relatively friendly remaining schedule, I think that's a pretty attainable scenario for getting to the tourney, unless Stanford were to lose the first P12 tourney game.
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01-31-2021, 06:10 PM
Bill Walton was pretty good the first four minutes of the game. Then things quickly went downhill. Walton's announcing attitude is, "Me, me, me, it's all about me. I couldn't care less about this game."
Bill Walton was pretty good the first four minutes of the game. Then things quickly went downhill. Walton's announcing attitude is, "Me, me, me, it's all about me. I couldn't care less about this game."
(01-31-2021, 06:10 PM)paloalto Wrote: Bill Walton was pretty good the first four minutes of the game. Then things quickly went downhill. Walton's announcing attitude is, "Me, me, me, it's all about me. I couldn't care less about this game."
Have you ever been stuck in the desert with no water and had to survive by breaking cactus with your bare hands to extract a few drops of water? Well, listening to Walton is worse than that.
Put a glide in your stride and a dip in your hip.
(01-31-2021, 06:10 PM)paloalto Wrote: Bill Walton was pretty good the first four minutes of the game. Then things quickly went downhill. Walton's announcing attitude is, "Me, me, me, it's all about me. I couldn't care less about this game."
Have you ever been stuck in the desert with no water and had to survive by breaking cactus with your bare hands to extract a few drops of water? Well, listening to Walton is worse than that.
Put a glide in your stride and a dip in your hip.
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