[BostonCard]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/20...etes-paid/

I think this was inevitable given various state laws coming into force (triggered by California's), and the message that the US Supreme Court's recent ruling on educational benefits sent.  No, the decision had nothing to do with NIL rules, but the unanimous ruling sent a very strong signal that the NCAA was going to be challenged on amateurism rules.

BC

[BostonCard]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/20...etes-paid/

I think this was inevitable given various state laws coming into force (triggered by California's), and the message that the US Supreme Court's recent ruling on educational benefits sent.  No, the decision had nothing to do with NIL rules, but the unanimous ruling sent a very strong signal that the NCAA was going to be challenged on amateurism rules.

BC

[OutsiderFan]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/20...etes-paid/

I think this was inevitable given various state laws coming into force (triggered by California's), and the message that the US Supreme Court's recent ruling on educational benefits sent.  No, the decision had nothing to do with NIL rules, but the unanimous ruling sent a very strong signal that the NCAA was going to be challenged on amateurism rules.

BC

While opening NIL activities to student-athletes, the policy leaves in place the commitment to avoid pay-for-play and improper inducements tied to choosing to attend a particular school. Those prohibitions would remain in effect.

The towering ignorance of the above NCAA statement is truly impressive to behold.

[OutsiderFan]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/20...etes-paid/

I think this was inevitable given various state laws coming into force (triggered by California's), and the message that the US Supreme Court's recent ruling on educational benefits sent.  No, the decision had nothing to do with NIL rules, but the unanimous ruling sent a very strong signal that the NCAA was going to be challenged on amateurism rules.

BC

While opening NIL activities to student-athletes, the policy leaves in place the commitment to avoid pay-for-play and improper inducements tied to choosing to attend a particular school. Those prohibitions would remain in effect.

The towering ignorance of the above NCAA statement is truly impressive to behold.

[Softball Fan]

This is the current NCAA policy which I understand will be challenged:

"If an athlete is provided NIL compensation, they cannot be paid if they did not work to earn the money, and their pay cannot be contingent on their athletic achievements, such as points scored."


I'll confess I have more ignorance on this topic than the NCAA.  That won't stop me from asking an uninformed question about a policy I believe will be proposed by college athletes.  

What would stop a university (i.e. SEC school) from getting a reputation for wealthy alums paying a million dollars for an autographed jersey or guest appearance to a highly coveted athlete choosing their school.   It seems like a launching pad for surreptitious abuse with verbal promises.  Yes I know that could happen in the current system but seems like this opens the door wider for it.

I personally would be in favor of the proposed policy if there was safeguards in effect to prevent money buying recruits.

[Softball Fan]

This is the current NCAA policy which I understand will be challenged:

"If an athlete is provided NIL compensation, they cannot be paid if they did not work to earn the money, and their pay cannot be contingent on their athletic achievements, such as points scored."


I'll confess I have more ignorance on this topic than the NCAA.  That won't stop me from asking an uninformed question about a policy I believe will be proposed by college athletes.  

What would stop a university (i.e. SEC school) from getting a reputation for wealthy alums paying a million dollars for an autographed jersey or guest appearance to a highly coveted athlete choosing their school.   It seems like a launching pad for surreptitious abuse with verbal promises.  Yes I know that could happen in the current system but seems like this opens the door wider for it.

I personally would be in favor of the proposed policy if there was safeguards in effect to prevent money buying recruits.

[82lsju]

Wisconsin QB Graham Mertz unveils trademarked logo ahead of NIL laws going into effect
...
Wisconsin announced earlier this month that it has partnered with Opendorse to launch the YouDub program, which is designed to help players capitalize on their name, image and likeness. The program is designed to help student-athlete assessment, education and brand development. Those include seminars with industry leaders in brand development, financial literacy and social media monetization.

https://www.cbssports.com/college-footba...to-effect/

[82lsju]

Wisconsin QB Graham Mertz unveils trademarked logo ahead of NIL laws going into effect
...
Wisconsin announced earlier this month that it has partnered with Opendorse to launch the YouDub program, which is designed to help players capitalize on their name, image and likeness. The program is designed to help student-athlete assessment, education and brand development. Those include seminars with industry leaders in brand development, financial literacy and social media monetization.

https://www.cbssports.com/college-footba...to-effect/

[BostonCard]

While opening NIL activities to student-athletes, the policy leaves in place the commitment to avoid pay-for-play and improper inducements tied to choosing to attend a particular school. Those prohibitions would remain in effect.

The towering ignorance of the above NCAA statement is truly impressive to behold.

Can you elaborate?  I'm trying to distinguish whether you mean that the NCAA shouldn't seek to limit pay-to-play (and whether that is because you believe the athletes should be paid to play), or whether you think prohibiting pay-to-play is futile (for the reasons that paloalto implied).

I don't think the NCAA is crazy to try to preserve amateurism in collegiate athletics.  It may be that the genie is out of the bottle and we are headed towards recognizing that collegiate athletes are professionals and need to be paid, but I have no interest in watching minor league football played by professional athletes on collegiate campuses, and I suspect that Stanford as a university doesn't either.  So the part of me that appreciates that the Stanford athletes were students just like I was will be saddened.

BC

[BostonCard]

While opening NIL activities to student-athletes, the policy leaves in place the commitment to avoid pay-for-play and improper inducements tied to choosing to attend a particular school. Those prohibitions would remain in effect.

The towering ignorance of the above NCAA statement is truly impressive to behold.

Can you elaborate?  I'm trying to distinguish whether you mean that the NCAA shouldn't seek to limit pay-to-play (and whether that is because you believe the athletes should be paid to play), or whether you think prohibiting pay-to-play is futile (for the reasons that paloalto implied).

I don't think the NCAA is crazy to try to preserve amateurism in collegiate athletics.  It may be that the genie is out of the bottle and we are headed towards recognizing that collegiate athletes are professionals and need to be paid, but I have no interest in watching minor league football played by professional athletes on collegiate campuses, and I suspect that Stanford as a university doesn't either.  So the part of me that appreciates that the Stanford athletes were students just like I was will be saddened.

BC

[TrumpCard]

Stanford has been trying to keep up with the Joneses in recruiting recently.  Spring official visits, early enrollment, etc.  But this may be a bridge too far.  I am not sure how Stanford's brand for football or basketball can compete with the U$Cs and UWs of the world, let alone the Texases and the Alabamas and the Floridas.

[TrumpCard]

Stanford has been trying to keep up with the Joneses in recruiting recently.  Spring official visits, early enrollment, etc.  But this may be a bridge too far.  I am not sure how Stanford's brand for football or basketball can compete with the U$Cs and UWs of the world, let alone the Texases and the Alabamas and the Floridas.

[82lsju]

Stanford has been trying to keep up with the Joneses in recruiting recently.  Spring official visits, early enrollment, etc.  But this may be a bridge too far.  I am not sure how Stanford's brand for football or basketball can compete with the U$Cs and UWs of the world, let alone the Texases and the Alabamas and the Floridas.

if pay to play goes big can would there eventually be a "salary cap" for college teams??  Not sure how that would come to pass given there is not a players union (at least not yet), but if say Alabama or Ohio State or ??? saw their "payroll" creeping up to $50m or $100m a year (2021 NFL salary cap is $182.5m, and if the college rosters size stay at ~2x NFL then $50m does not seem that all that far fetched) would the incremental TV money keep up with the extra cost????  Would the end game be like the NFL with ~32 teams in the "college football championship division" and every one else the "others".  If the greatly reduced number of teams in the "college football championship division" did happen would they be allowed to schedule body bag games against the "others"?  Cut non-preforming players?  Make trades given players can now at least once transfer as "free agents"?

[82lsju]

Stanford has been trying to keep up with the Joneses in recruiting recently.  Spring official visits, early enrollment, etc.  But this may be a bridge too far.  I am not sure how Stanford's brand for football or basketball can compete with the U$Cs and UWs of the world, let alone the Texases and the Alabamas and the Floridas.

if pay to play goes big can would there eventually be a "salary cap" for college teams??  Not sure how that would come to pass given there is not a players union (at least not yet), but if say Alabama or Ohio State or ??? saw their "payroll" creeping up to $50m or $100m a year (2021 NFL salary cap is $182.5m, and if the college rosters size stay at ~2x NFL then $50m does not seem that all that far fetched) would the incremental TV money keep up with the extra cost????  Would the end game be like the NFL with ~32 teams in the "college football championship division" and every one else the "others".  If the greatly reduced number of teams in the "college football championship division" did happen would they be allowed to schedule body bag games against the "others"?  Cut non-preforming players?  Make trades given players can now at least once transfer as "free agents"?

[OutsiderFan]

The NCAA might as well have put out a statement saying "we believe the mice will not play when the cat is away."

The NCAA can't control impermissible benefits being paid to recruits when they aren't allowed to earn any money when on scholarship. Now, with the ability college athletes will have to earn money, it will have even less ability to stop market forces from ruling recruiting.

We are going to see a money laundering business like never before.  I guess the good news is when you pay the talent directly, you can cut out the middle man, so coach salaries will surely take a dive. They just won't be needed as much when direct payments to athletes can be arranged.

The NCAA is utterly without a clue how to handle the world that is changing around it. There is no leadership that has a any idea what to do.

[OutsiderFan]

The NCAA might as well have put out a statement saying "we believe the mice will not play when the cat is away."

The NCAA can't control impermissible benefits being paid to recruits when they aren't allowed to earn any money when on scholarship. Now, with the ability college athletes will have to earn money, it will have even less ability to stop market forces from ruling recruiting.

We are going to see a money laundering business like never before.  I guess the good news is when you pay the talent directly, you can cut out the middle man, so coach salaries will surely take a dive. They just won't be needed as much when direct payments to athletes can be arranged.

The NCAA is utterly without a clue how to handle the world that is changing around it. There is no leadership that has a any idea what to do.

[teejers1]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/20...etes-paid/

I think this was inevitable given various state laws coming into force (triggered by California's), and the message that the US Supreme Court's recent ruling on educational benefits sent.  No, the decision had nothing to do with NIL rules, but the unanimous ruling sent a very strong signal that the NCAA was going to be challenged on amateurism rules.

BC

Remember the tune playing on the radio where the guys first discovered the alien ship at the  beginning of "Independence Day?"

That tune keeps rattling through my noggin when reading about NIL payments to players, as well as the inevitable follow-ups on that.

[teejers1]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/20...etes-paid/

I think this was inevitable given various state laws coming into force (triggered by California's), and the message that the US Supreme Court's recent ruling on educational benefits sent.  No, the decision had nothing to do with NIL rules, but the unanimous ruling sent a very strong signal that the NCAA was going to be challenged on amateurism rules.

BC

Remember the tune playing on the radio where the guys first discovered the alien ship at the  beginning of "Independence Day?"

That tune keeps rattling through my noggin when reading about NIL payments to players, as well as the inevitable follow-ups on that.

[needle]

What's being created is a star system without any sort of bargaining ability for the bottom half to one-third of a football roster. 

We will probably see some minor scandals erupt when certain mega donors think they've bought a player outright, but I suspect the truly ugly stuff will involve the guys whose best "NIL" offers come from shadowy characters who care nothing about a school. Paying these guys x amount for an "autograph" will really be an avenue to gather inside program info that can then be used for betting or even blackmail purposes.

The schools are very much taking a hands off approach that protects the institutions from liability, so imo the only way to avert disaster is to create a nonprofit sort of "BBB" to help players differentiate between legit market offers and probable scams/illicit activity. 

The college presidents (aka NCAA) should do everything possible to help this type of nonprofit come into existence, with a feature being a voluntary registry so that those truly in the autograph, marketing and live events businesses could put all their cards on the table (business stuff like registered agent, headquarters location, major funders, etc.) in the name of transparency. 

The players who are smart enough to really want to avoid shadiness should have such an option to turn to; alas, I fear they will pretty much have to fend for themselves when crooks and delusional fans make them offers that are too good to be true.

[needle]

What's being created is a star system without any sort of bargaining ability for the bottom half to one-third of a football roster. 

We will probably see some minor scandals erupt when certain mega donors think they've bought a player outright, but I suspect the truly ugly stuff will involve the guys whose best "NIL" offers come from shadowy characters who care nothing about a school. Paying these guys x amount for an "autograph" will really be an avenue to gather inside program info that can then be used for betting or even blackmail purposes.

The schools are very much taking a hands off approach that protects the institutions from liability, so imo the only way to avert disaster is to create a nonprofit sort of "BBB" to help players differentiate between legit market offers and probable scams/illicit activity. 

The college presidents (aka NCAA) should do everything possible to help this type of nonprofit come into existence, with a feature being a voluntary registry so that those truly in the autograph, marketing and live events businesses could put all their cards on the table (business stuff like registered agent, headquarters location, major funders, etc.) in the name of transparency. 

The players who are smart enough to really want to avoid shadiness should have such an option to turn to; alas, I fear they will pretty much have to fend for themselves when crooks and delusional fans make them offers that are too good to be true.

[BostonCard]

Remember the tune playing on the radio where the guys first discovered the alien ship at the  beginning of "Independence Day?"


That tune keeps rattling through my noggin when reading about NIL payments to players, as well as the inevitable follow-ups on that.

To be honest, no...

https://youtu.be/hm4XMF1apD4?t=18

What was the song?

Obviously, this creates a compliance nightmare for the NCAA, but what choice did they have?  A truly free market for labor would, of course, bring all this above board, but then you can't even pretend that amateurism exists, and also, I believe would leave schools open to Title IX suits.  I think the only way to control it is to funnel all NIL transactions through registered agencies that promote, transact, collect and distribute the money to athletes.  The athletes would only see a check from the agency, with a breakdown of what was sold for how much (but not to who).  I'm thinking that in the end it is unworkable.

BC

[BostonCard]

Remember the tune playing on the radio where the guys first discovered the alien ship at the  beginning of "Independence Day?"


That tune keeps rattling through my noggin when reading about NIL payments to players, as well as the inevitable follow-ups on that.

To be honest, no...

https://youtu.be/hm4XMF1apD4?t=18

What was the song?

Obviously, this creates a compliance nightmare for the NCAA, but what choice did they have?  A truly free market for labor would, of course, bring all this above board, but then you can't even pretend that amateurism exists, and also, I believe would leave schools open to Title IX suits.  I think the only way to control it is to funnel all NIL transactions through registered agencies that promote, transact, collect and distribute the money to athletes.  The athletes would only see a check from the agency, with a breakdown of what was sold for how much (but not to who).  I'm thinking that in the end it is unworkable.

BC

[winflop]

What's being created is a star system without any sort of bargaining ability for the bottom half to one-third of a football roster. 

Not to mention the hundreds of thousands of college athletes in other sports...

Pandora's box has been opened. Can't shut it now. Amateurism is for all practical purposes dead.

[winflop]

What's being created is a star system without any sort of bargaining ability for the bottom half to one-third of a football roster. 

Not to mention the hundreds of thousands of college athletes in other sports...

Pandora's box has been opened. Can't shut it now. Amateurism is for all practical purposes dead.

[BostonCard]

And the NCAA is largely responsible. You can’t just call unpaid professional athletes “amateurs” and call it a day.  Time and again the association has prioritized revenue and it’s own Interests over the well-being of athletes.

BC

[BostonCard]

And the NCAA is largely responsible. You can’t just call unpaid professional athletes “amateurs” and call it a day.  Time and again the association has prioritized revenue and it’s own Interests over the well-being of athletes.

BC

[Goose]

Pandora's box has been opened. Can't shut it now.

Yes we can. (Had to use the line. first time ever). If college sports were given an exemption from anti-trust laws, they could regulate/prohibit commercial activity by the athletes. Failing that, it is clear that any restrictions on the commercial activities by student athletes cannot legally be imposed by any organization similar to a conference or the NCAA. That would be an illegal restraint of trade, period. The idea of funneling money through any such organization would immediately be successfully challenged in court. It is possible that an individual university can restrain the commercial activities of students as a condition of attending. However, such regulation would have to apply in equal measure to all students. Such regulations also could not be coordinated with other universities for the above reason.

It Amateurism is for all practical purposes dead.

Without legislation, that is absolutely true. With legislation, it could still be true if organizations like the NCAA don't get their act together, both in PR terms and in real legal terms. I actually expect no legislation in the short term. It may happen when everybody realizes the implications of destroying the ability of universities to collude and govern intercollegiate athletics. The NCAA has done a crappy job. Without legislation, nobody can take over and do a better one.

[Goose]

Pandora's box has been opened. Can't shut it now.

Yes we can. (Had to use the line. first time ever). If college sports were given an exemption from anti-trust laws, they could regulate/prohibit commercial activity by the athletes. Failing that, it is clear that any restrictions on the commercial activities by student athletes cannot legally be imposed by any organization similar to a conference or the NCAA. That would be an illegal restraint of trade, period. The idea of funneling money through any such organization would immediately be successfully challenged in court. It is possible that an individual university can restrain the commercial activities of students as a condition of attending. However, such regulation would have to apply in equal measure to all students. Such regulations also could not be coordinated with other universities for the above reason.

It Amateurism is for all practical purposes dead.

Without legislation, that is absolutely true. With legislation, it could still be true if organizations like the NCAA don't get their act together, both in PR terms and in real legal terms. I actually expect no legislation in the short term. It may happen when everybody realizes the implications of destroying the ability of universities to collude and govern intercollegiate athletics. The NCAA has done a crappy job. Without legislation, nobody can take over and do a better one.

[teejers1]

Remember the tune playing on the radio where the guys first discovered the alien ship at the  beginning of "Independence Day?"


That tune keeps rattling through my noggin when reading about NIL payments to players, as well as the inevitable follow-ups on that.

To be honest, no...

https://youtu.be/hm4XMF1apD4?t=18

What was the song?

BC

Here.  At 2:00 mark

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=krGUmSN82UE

[teejers1]

Remember the tune playing on the radio where the guys first discovered the alien ship at the  beginning of "Independence Day?"


That tune keeps rattling through my noggin when reading about NIL payments to players, as well as the inevitable follow-ups on that.

To be honest, no...

https://youtu.be/hm4XMF1apD4?t=18

What was the song?

BC

Here.  At 2:00 mark

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=krGUmSN82UE

[82lsju]

Stanford Athletics announced, Wednesday, the launch of Cardinal Connect, a new campus program designed to help Stanford students take advantage of Name, Image and Likeness (NIL) opportunities. The in-house initiative aims to leverage Stanford's campus and alumni resources to provide education and support to students under new governance which allows student-athletes to receive compensation for their NIL without forfeiting their athletic eligibility.

Beginning July 1, student-athletes may enter into agreements involving their NIL under temporary NCAA legislation approved today. On Sept. 1, California's SB 206 will go into effect and govern NIL opportunities throughout the state.

https://gostanford.com/news/2021/6/30/at...nnect.aspx

[82lsju]

Stanford Athletics announced, Wednesday, the launch of Cardinal Connect, a new campus program designed to help Stanford students take advantage of Name, Image and Likeness (NIL) opportunities. The in-house initiative aims to leverage Stanford's campus and alumni resources to provide education and support to students under new governance which allows student-athletes to receive compensation for their NIL without forfeiting their athletic eligibility.

Beginning July 1, student-athletes may enter into agreements involving their NIL under temporary NCAA legislation approved today. On Sept. 1, California's SB 206 will go into effect and govern NIL opportunities throughout the state.

https://gostanford.com/news/2021/6/30/at...nnect.aspx

[OutsiderFan]

Are NCAA athletes allowed to hold jobs? I know at one time they weren't, but am thinking perhaps those rules have now faded away too?

[OutsiderFan]

Are NCAA athletes allowed to hold jobs? I know at one time they weren't, but am thinking perhaps those rules have now faded away too?

[Goose]

Are NCAA athletes allowed to hold jobs? I know at one time they weren't, but am thinking perhaps those rules have now faded away too?

Maybe not yet, but I am pretty sure it will be only a matter of when the first student challenges the rule that it will be lifted

[Goose]

Are NCAA athletes allowed to hold jobs? I know at one time they weren't, but am thinking perhaps those rules have now faded away too?

Maybe not yet, but I am pretty sure it will be only a matter of when the first student challenges the rule that it will be lifted

[chrisk]

Are NCAA athletes allowed to hold jobs? I know at one time they weren't, but am thinking perhaps those rules have now faded away too?

Maybe not yet, but I am pretty sure it will be only a matter of when the first student challenges the rule that it will be lifted

I don't recall athletes ever being prohibited from holding jobs.

---

Stanford NIL policy published today

https://gostanford.com/news/2021/6/30/st...olicy.aspx

[chrisk]

Are NCAA athletes allowed to hold jobs? I know at one time they weren't, but am thinking perhaps those rules have now faded away too?

Maybe not yet, but I am pretty sure it will be only a matter of when the first student challenges the rule that it will be lifted

I don't recall athletes ever being prohibited from holding jobs.

---

Stanford NIL policy published today

https://gostanford.com/news/2021/6/30/st...olicy.aspx

[BostonCard]

Are NCAA athletes allowed to hold jobs? I know at one time they weren't, but am thinking perhaps those rules have now faded away too?

Athletes have been allowed to have outside jobs since at least 2016.

https://www.cbssports.com/college-footba...eir-sport/

9. Outside employment. The NCAA allows players to have paying jobs. They may rarely have the time to do so, but it is permitted if the work is performed at an amount comparable to the going rate in that area for similar services. The payment isn't supposed to be due to athletic ability or publicity for the employer due to the athlete's presence. An athlete can be employed by his or university, another school, or a private organization to work in a camp or clinic as a counselor.

Looks like the change was made in 2007:

https://diverseeducation.com/article/7463/

In a surprise development at its annual convention, the National Collegiate Athletic Association (NCAA) approved new legislation allowing athletes to work part-time jobs during the school year.

Athletes (both from Stanford and from other schools) have been employed as counselors at the Stanford golf camp for as long as my son has been going.

BC

[BostonCard]

Are NCAA athletes allowed to hold jobs? I know at one time they weren't, but am thinking perhaps those rules have now faded away too?

Athletes have been allowed to have outside jobs since at least 2016.

https://www.cbssports.com/college-footba...eir-sport/

9. Outside employment. The NCAA allows players to have paying jobs. They may rarely have the time to do so, but it is permitted if the work is performed at an amount comparable to the going rate in that area for similar services. The payment isn't supposed to be due to athletic ability or publicity for the employer due to the athlete's presence. An athlete can be employed by his or university, another school, or a private organization to work in a camp or clinic as a counselor.

Looks like the change was made in 2007:

https://diverseeducation.com/article/7463/

In a surprise development at its annual convention, the National Collegiate Athletic Association (NCAA) approved new legislation allowing athletes to work part-time jobs during the school year.

Athletes (both from Stanford and from other schools) have been employed as counselors at the Stanford golf camp for as long as my son has been going.

BC