08-01-2023, 08:38 PM
Defense sure didn’t look good in the second half today. We were so lucky
Outside Topic USWNT at the World Cup
08-01-2023, 10:48 PM
+1 on seeking analysis.
I'm not an expert on soccer, but my assumption is that there's a coaching problem. It's the opposite of the Monty era in Stanford MBB: position by position the US seems to have a big advantage, but the net effect is less than the sum of the parts. To me that sounds like coaching.
Two other possible explanations:
1. The US players may have less familiarity with each other than the players from Netherlands & Portugal, some of whom play on the same teams in league play.
2. Small sample size. There is a lot of randomness in soccer.
On the other hand, Andonovski made two strategic decisions that struck me as mistakes in real time.
-Putting in Rapinoe. I love what Rapinoe has done over the years, but she's past her prime.
-Not turtling at 80+ minutes. I know that phrase may be controversial on this board, but the risk/reward is very different from Shaw's football tendencies. It struck me as crazy how aggressive we were at a point in the match where we just needed not to lose in order to survive and advance.
I'm not an expert on soccer, but my assumption is that there's a coaching problem. It's the opposite of the Monty era in Stanford MBB: position by position the US seems to have a big advantage, but the net effect is less than the sum of the parts. To me that sounds like coaching.
Two other possible explanations:
1. The US players may have less familiarity with each other than the players from Netherlands & Portugal, some of whom play on the same teams in league play.
2. Small sample size. There is a lot of randomness in soccer.
On the other hand, Andonovski made two strategic decisions that struck me as mistakes in real time.
-Putting in Rapinoe. I love what Rapinoe has done over the years, but she's past her prime.
-Not turtling at 80+ minutes. I know that phrase may be controversial on this board, but the risk/reward is very different from Shaw's football tendencies. It struck me as crazy how aggressive we were at a point in the match where we just needed not to lose in order to survive and advance.
+1 on seeking analysis.
I'm not an expert on soccer, but my assumption is that there's a coaching problem. It's the opposite of the Monty era in Stanford MBB: position by position the US seems to have a big advantage, but the net effect is less than the sum of the parts. To me that sounds like coaching.
Two other possible explanations:
1. The US players may have less familiarity with each other than the players from Netherlands & Portugal, some of whom play on the same teams in league play.
2. Small sample size. There is a lot of randomness in soccer.
On the other hand, Andonovski made two strategic decisions that struck me as mistakes in real time.
-Putting in Rapinoe. I love what Rapinoe has done over the years, but she's past her prime.
-Not turtling at 80+ minutes. I know that phrase may be controversial on this board, but the risk/reward is very different from Shaw's football tendencies. It struck me as crazy how aggressive we were at a point in the match where we just needed not to lose in order to survive and advance.
I'm not an expert on soccer, but my assumption is that there's a coaching problem. It's the opposite of the Monty era in Stanford MBB: position by position the US seems to have a big advantage, but the net effect is less than the sum of the parts. To me that sounds like coaching.
Two other possible explanations:
1. The US players may have less familiarity with each other than the players from Netherlands & Portugal, some of whom play on the same teams in league play.
2. Small sample size. There is a lot of randomness in soccer.
On the other hand, Andonovski made two strategic decisions that struck me as mistakes in real time.
-Putting in Rapinoe. I love what Rapinoe has done over the years, but she's past her prime.
-Not turtling at 80+ minutes. I know that phrase may be controversial on this board, but the risk/reward is very different from Shaw's football tendencies. It struck me as crazy how aggressive we were at a point in the match where we just needed not to lose in order to survive and advance.
08-02-2023, 12:06 AM
I'm no expert but in this tournament, there seems to be a distinct lack of coaching leadership and strategy. Against Portugal, we ran at least 90% of our offense from the left side and were easily stymied. We had no answer or alternative and just kept banging our head against the wall hoping for an individual play to save us. Terrible.
In general terms of our offense, I think we have a young team and our middle is just a wreck. If Macario was playing, we'd be better. Dunn is having a terrible tourney so far and Horan played like she was too afraid of that potential second yellow. Rose Lavelle was limited in her minutes coming back from injury and didn't play scared but got that second yellow so she won't be playing in the next game. Some of it is just not having the experienced players to lead us. I don't have the answers, but I don't see it coming from our coaching. We need our experienced players like Horan, Morgan, and Ertz to lead this team in terms of performance but maybe more in terms of having everyone else play every minute with the intensity needed to win 50/50 balls and fight for better scoring chances that can be finished.
I stayed up last night but won't be up all night Sunday because I really need to work on Monday. I still have hope they will improve, but things don't just change overnight so that hope is really diminishing.
Cheers,
Pete F.
In general terms of our offense, I think we have a young team and our middle is just a wreck. If Macario was playing, we'd be better. Dunn is having a terrible tourney so far and Horan played like she was too afraid of that potential second yellow. Rose Lavelle was limited in her minutes coming back from injury and didn't play scared but got that second yellow so she won't be playing in the next game. Some of it is just not having the experienced players to lead us. I don't have the answers, but I don't see it coming from our coaching. We need our experienced players like Horan, Morgan, and Ertz to lead this team in terms of performance but maybe more in terms of having everyone else play every minute with the intensity needed to win 50/50 balls and fight for better scoring chances that can be finished.
I stayed up last night but won't be up all night Sunday because I really need to work on Monday. I still have hope they will improve, but things don't just change overnight so that hope is really diminishing.
Cheers,
Pete F.
I'm no expert but in this tournament, there seems to be a distinct lack of coaching leadership and strategy. Against Portugal, we ran at least 90% of our offense from the left side and were easily stymied. We had no answer or alternative and just kept banging our head against the wall hoping for an individual play to save us. Terrible.
In general terms of our offense, I think we have a young team and our middle is just a wreck. If Macario was playing, we'd be better. Dunn is having a terrible tourney so far and Horan played like she was too afraid of that potential second yellow. Rose Lavelle was limited in her minutes coming back from injury and didn't play scared but got that second yellow so she won't be playing in the next game. Some of it is just not having the experienced players to lead us. I don't have the answers, but I don't see it coming from our coaching. We need our experienced players like Horan, Morgan, and Ertz to lead this team in terms of performance but maybe more in terms of having everyone else play every minute with the intensity needed to win 50/50 balls and fight for better scoring chances that can be finished.
I stayed up last night but won't be up all night Sunday because I really need to work on Monday. I still have hope they will improve, but things don't just change overnight so that hope is really diminishing.
Cheers,
Pete F.
In general terms of our offense, I think we have a young team and our middle is just a wreck. If Macario was playing, we'd be better. Dunn is having a terrible tourney so far and Horan played like she was too afraid of that potential second yellow. Rose Lavelle was limited in her minutes coming back from injury and didn't play scared but got that second yellow so she won't be playing in the next game. Some of it is just not having the experienced players to lead us. I don't have the answers, but I don't see it coming from our coaching. We need our experienced players like Horan, Morgan, and Ertz to lead this team in terms of performance but maybe more in terms of having everyone else play every minute with the intensity needed to win 50/50 balls and fight for better scoring chances that can be finished.
I stayed up last night but won't be up all night Sunday because I really need to work on Monday. I still have hope they will improve, but things don't just change overnight so that hope is really diminishing.
Cheers,
Pete F.
Wow! US is eliminated by less than an inch on penalty kicks. A very flawed team.
Andi Sullivan made her penalty kick. Sophia Smith and Kelley O'Hara missed theirs. Sophia makes it, and the US would have advanced.
Andi Sullivan made her penalty kick. Sophia Smith and Kelley O'Hara missed theirs. Sophia makes it, and the US would have advanced.
Wow! US is eliminated by less than an inch on penalty kicks. A very flawed team.
Andi Sullivan made her penalty kick. Sophia Smith and Kelley O'Hara missed theirs. Sophia makes it, and the US would have advanced.
Andi Sullivan made her penalty kick. Sophia Smith and Kelley O'Hara missed theirs. Sophia makes it, and the US would have advanced.
https://www.espn.com/soccer/story/_/id/3...n-struggle
Brutal for O'Hara and Sophia Smith. US Soccer needs to fire whatever marketing idiot came up with the marketing campaign.
I feel especially bad for Kelley O'Hara. She's been great in the back-to-back wins, and this is likely her last World Cup. Sophia will continue to grow. Girma played well throughout. Andi Sullivan got better.
Brutal for O'Hara and Sophia Smith. US Soccer needs to fire whatever marketing idiot came up with the marketing campaign.
I feel especially bad for Kelley O'Hara. She's been great in the back-to-back wins, and this is likely her last World Cup. Sophia will continue to grow. Girma played well throughout. Andi Sullivan got better.
https://www.espn.com/soccer/story/_/id/3...n-struggle
Brutal for O'Hara and Sophia Smith. US Soccer needs to fire whatever marketing idiot came up with the marketing campaign.
I feel especially bad for Kelley O'Hara. She's been great in the back-to-back wins, and this is likely her last World Cup. Sophia will continue to grow. Girma played well throughout. Andi Sullivan got better.
Brutal for O'Hara and Sophia Smith. US Soccer needs to fire whatever marketing idiot came up with the marketing campaign.
I feel especially bad for Kelley O'Hara. She's been great in the back-to-back wins, and this is likely her last World Cup. Sophia will continue to grow. Girma played well throughout. Andi Sullivan got better.
Girma was the best player on USWNT in the tourney. Sullivan played much better vs. Sweden than in the earlier matches..
Smith scored twice vs. Vietnam but that hardly counts; MVLA or Paly HS girls could beat Vietnam. Smith was constantly double teamed after that and was rarely in synch with Alex Morgan who would stand around and watch the double teams and overall had a dismal tournament. Smith's PK would've beaten Sweden but it was very high and very wide and headed for Hawaii.
Hard ending for the wondrous O'Hara. She deserved better than subbing in twice during the final minute of play vs. Portugal and Sweden.
Stanford ex-recruit Alyssa Thompson was victimized by coaching malpractice. Thompson ran 11.7 in the 100 m in HS and rather than use her speed, coach elected to have her spectate for the entire tournament less a couple minutes late vs. Portugal. Other countries played their U20 stars.
Luckily, the Paris Olympics are next year, so the reset/ rebuild will be fast and furious! Hopefully with a new head coach.
Smith scored twice vs. Vietnam but that hardly counts; MVLA or Paly HS girls could beat Vietnam. Smith was constantly double teamed after that and was rarely in synch with Alex Morgan who would stand around and watch the double teams and overall had a dismal tournament. Smith's PK would've beaten Sweden but it was very high and very wide and headed for Hawaii.
Hard ending for the wondrous O'Hara. She deserved better than subbing in twice during the final minute of play vs. Portugal and Sweden.
Stanford ex-recruit Alyssa Thompson was victimized by coaching malpractice. Thompson ran 11.7 in the 100 m in HS and rather than use her speed, coach elected to have her spectate for the entire tournament less a couple minutes late vs. Portugal. Other countries played their U20 stars.
Luckily, the Paris Olympics are next year, so the reset/ rebuild will be fast and furious! Hopefully with a new head coach.
(This post was last modified: 08-07-2023, 12:04 AM by Branner77.)
Girma was the best player on USWNT in the tourney. Sullivan played much better vs. Sweden than in the earlier matches..
Smith scored twice vs. Vietnam but that hardly counts; MVLA or Paly HS girls could beat Vietnam. Smith was constantly double teamed after that and was rarely in synch with Alex Morgan who would stand around and watch the double teams and overall had a dismal tournament. Smith's PK would've beaten Sweden but it was very high and very wide and headed for Hawaii.
Hard ending for the wondrous O'Hara. She deserved better than subbing in twice during the final minute of play vs. Portugal and Sweden.
Stanford ex-recruit Alyssa Thompson was victimized by coaching malpractice. Thompson ran 11.7 in the 100 m in HS and rather than use her speed, coach elected to have her spectate for the entire tournament less a couple minutes late vs. Portugal. Other countries played their U20 stars.
Luckily, the Paris Olympics are next year, so the reset/ rebuild will be fast and furious! Hopefully with a new head coach.
Smith scored twice vs. Vietnam but that hardly counts; MVLA or Paly HS girls could beat Vietnam. Smith was constantly double teamed after that and was rarely in synch with Alex Morgan who would stand around and watch the double teams and overall had a dismal tournament. Smith's PK would've beaten Sweden but it was very high and very wide and headed for Hawaii.
Hard ending for the wondrous O'Hara. She deserved better than subbing in twice during the final minute of play vs. Portugal and Sweden.
Stanford ex-recruit Alyssa Thompson was victimized by coaching malpractice. Thompson ran 11.7 in the 100 m in HS and rather than use her speed, coach elected to have her spectate for the entire tournament less a couple minutes late vs. Portugal. Other countries played their U20 stars.
Luckily, the Paris Olympics are next year, so the reset/ rebuild will be fast and furious! Hopefully with a new head coach.
They need to fire Andonovsky pronto. I watch soccer like 6 times a year and even I could tell this team had an incoherent game plan, the wrong talent in the wrong positions, self-defeating substitutions, and no chemistry beyond the center backs.
They need to fire Andonovsky pronto. I watch soccer like 6 times a year and even I could tell this team had an incoherent game plan, the wrong talent in the wrong positions, self-defeating substitutions, and no chemistry beyond the center backs.
08-07-2023, 08:20 PM
I don't disagree that the coach needs to go but sometimes Soccer is frustrating and the "better" team loses a game they dominated.
By most soccer game-play stats the US dominated Sweden.
Shots: US 22; Sw 9
Shots on Target: US 11, Sw 1
Possession: US 58%; Sw 42%
Passes: US 587; Sw 427
Corners: US 9; Sw 3
The US didn't finish the many opportunities the had against Sweden much as they didn't finish against Portugal and the Netherlands. In soccer when you outplay the other team but don't score it comes down to penalty kicks. It's like letting a tied football game be decided by 5 players chosen to be in a Punt/Pass/Kick contest. Frustrating.
I suspect the US will come back stronger - We were caught during a rebuilding period with the last hurrah for the old guard and first action for the new. Transitions alway looks easier to fans than the players/coaches.
So sure, fire the coach. He's had his cycle and the results have been bad. It's his job to get the team ready to play and he doesn't deserve another cycle. Don't give up on this team - they'll be fine when the new players come back next time playing hungry after the loss and embarrassment of an early exit in two successive tournaments.
By most soccer game-play stats the US dominated Sweden.
Shots: US 22; Sw 9
Shots on Target: US 11, Sw 1
Possession: US 58%; Sw 42%
Passes: US 587; Sw 427
Corners: US 9; Sw 3
The US didn't finish the many opportunities the had against Sweden much as they didn't finish against Portugal and the Netherlands. In soccer when you outplay the other team but don't score it comes down to penalty kicks. It's like letting a tied football game be decided by 5 players chosen to be in a Punt/Pass/Kick contest. Frustrating.
I suspect the US will come back stronger - We were caught during a rebuilding period with the last hurrah for the old guard and first action for the new. Transitions alway looks easier to fans than the players/coaches.
So sure, fire the coach. He's had his cycle and the results have been bad. It's his job to get the team ready to play and he doesn't deserve another cycle. Don't give up on this team - they'll be fine when the new players come back next time playing hungry after the loss and embarrassment of an early exit in two successive tournaments.
In 1938 Neville Chamberlain declared "Peace in our time", Superman first appeared in Action Comics, Seabiscuit beat War Admiral ....... and C.a.l last won the Rose Bowl.
I don't disagree that the coach needs to go but sometimes Soccer is frustrating and the "better" team loses a game they dominated.
By most soccer game-play stats the US dominated Sweden.
Shots: US 22; Sw 9
Shots on Target: US 11, Sw 1
Possession: US 58%; Sw 42%
Passes: US 587; Sw 427
Corners: US 9; Sw 3
The US didn't finish the many opportunities the had against Sweden much as they didn't finish against Portugal and the Netherlands. In soccer when you outplay the other team but don't score it comes down to penalty kicks. It's like letting a tied football game be decided by 5 players chosen to be in a Punt/Pass/Kick contest. Frustrating.
I suspect the US will come back stronger - We were caught during a rebuilding period with the last hurrah for the old guard and first action for the new. Transitions alway looks easier to fans than the players/coaches.
So sure, fire the coach. He's had his cycle and the results have been bad. It's his job to get the team ready to play and he doesn't deserve another cycle. Don't give up on this team - they'll be fine when the new players come back next time playing hungry after the loss and embarrassment of an early exit in two successive tournaments.
By most soccer game-play stats the US dominated Sweden.
Shots: US 22; Sw 9
Shots on Target: US 11, Sw 1
Possession: US 58%; Sw 42%
Passes: US 587; Sw 427
Corners: US 9; Sw 3
The US didn't finish the many opportunities the had against Sweden much as they didn't finish against Portugal and the Netherlands. In soccer when you outplay the other team but don't score it comes down to penalty kicks. It's like letting a tied football game be decided by 5 players chosen to be in a Punt/Pass/Kick contest. Frustrating.
I suspect the US will come back stronger - We were caught during a rebuilding period with the last hurrah for the old guard and first action for the new. Transitions alway looks easier to fans than the players/coaches.
So sure, fire the coach. He's had his cycle and the results have been bad. It's his job to get the team ready to play and he doesn't deserve another cycle. Don't give up on this team - they'll be fine when the new players come back next time playing hungry after the loss and embarrassment of an early exit in two successive tournaments.
In 1938 Neville Chamberlain declared "Peace in our time", Superman first appeared in Action Comics, Seabiscuit beat War Admiral ....... and C.a.l last won the Rose Bowl.
08-07-2023, 10:32 PM
Best article I've seen (behind paywall): https://theathletic.com/4747722/2023/08/...n=11693598
The article was before the Sweden loss.
The article was before the Sweden loss.
Best article I've seen (behind paywall): https://theathletic.com/4747722/2023/08/...n=11693598
The article was before the Sweden loss.
The article was before the Sweden loss.
08-08-2023, 07:02 AM
(08-01-2023, 10:48 PM)WindyCityCard Wrote: +1 on seeking analysis.
I'm not an expert on soccer, but my assumption is that there's a coaching problem. It's the opposite of the Monty era in Stanford MBB: position by position the US seems to have a big advantage, but the net effect is less than the sum of the parts. To me that sounds like coaching.
Two other possible explanations:
1. The US players may have less familiarity with each other than the players from Netherlands & Portugal, some of whom play on the same teams in league play.
2. Small sample size. There is a lot of randomness in soccer.
On the other hand, Andonovski made two strategic decisions that struck me as mistakes in real time.
-Putting in Rapinoe. I love what Rapinoe has done over the years, but she's past her prime.
-Not turtling at 80+ minutes. I know that phrase may be controversial on this board, but the risk/reward is very different from Shaw's football tendencies. It struck me as crazy how aggressive we were at a point in the match where we just needed not to lose in order to survive and advance.
RIGHT! -- Puting in Rapinoe to replace speedy strker Alex Morgan, who had some of the best shots... deflected.
I believe Morgan would have made her penalty kick and we move on. But, PKs are limited to players on the field at the end.
(08-01-2023, 10:48 PM)WindyCityCard Wrote: +1 on seeking analysis.
I'm not an expert on soccer, but my assumption is that there's a coaching problem. It's the opposite of the Monty era in Stanford MBB: position by position the US seems to have a big advantage, but the net effect is less than the sum of the parts. To me that sounds like coaching.
Two other possible explanations:
1. The US players may have less familiarity with each other than the players from Netherlands & Portugal, some of whom play on the same teams in league play.
2. Small sample size. There is a lot of randomness in soccer.
On the other hand, Andonovski made two strategic decisions that struck me as mistakes in real time.
-Putting in Rapinoe. I love what Rapinoe has done over the years, but she's past her prime.
-Not turtling at 80+ minutes. I know that phrase may be controversial on this board, but the risk/reward is very different from Shaw's football tendencies. It struck me as crazy how aggressive we were at a point in the match where we just needed not to lose in order to survive and advance.
RIGHT! -- Puting in Rapinoe to replace speedy strker Alex Morgan, who had some of the best shots... deflected.
I believe Morgan would have made her penalty kick and we move on. But, PKs are limited to players on the field at the end.
08-08-2023, 08:20 AM
(08-07-2023, 10:32 PM)WindyCityCard Wrote: Best article I've seen (behind paywall): https://theathletic.com/4747722/2023/08/...n=11693598
The article was before the Sweden loss.
Thanks for sharing. This analysis seems spot on, and the "prayer circle" analogy cracked me up. This para felt so on point to me:
Quote:Midfield shape and movement is the most glaring issue with the U.S. at the moment. The team is regularly taking up a stance I’ll call the “Prayer Circle Formation,” in which everyone’s occupying a space on the perimeter of the pitch and no one’s in the middle. Intelligent and technically adept players who regularly show the ability to combine in tight spaces at the club level are being made to appear inept, as they look up for passing options and find no one. . . . The Prayer Circle has to be considered a feature, not a bug, of Andonovsi’s tactics at this point. He wants to create overloads in wide areas and get numbers into the box so badly that he is willing to sacrifice having a midfield to do so. Personally, I think this sucks and leads to very bad soccer.
(08-07-2023, 10:32 PM)WindyCityCard Wrote: Best article I've seen (behind paywall): https://theathletic.com/4747722/2023/08/...n=11693598
The article was before the Sweden loss.
Thanks for sharing. This analysis seems spot on, and the "prayer circle" analogy cracked me up. This para felt so on point to me:
Quote:Midfield shape and movement is the most glaring issue with the U.S. at the moment. The team is regularly taking up a stance I’ll call the “Prayer Circle Formation,” in which everyone’s occupying a space on the perimeter of the pitch and no one’s in the middle. Intelligent and technically adept players who regularly show the ability to combine in tight spaces at the club level are being made to appear inept, as they look up for passing options and find no one. . . . The Prayer Circle has to be considered a feature, not a bug, of Andonovsi’s tactics at this point. He wants to create overloads in wide areas and get numbers into the box so badly that he is willing to sacrifice having a midfield to do so. Personally, I think this sucks and leads to very bad soccer.
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