[jonnyss]

iirc a few years back, someone posted here about an attorney lobbying for lawyers to be able to assist (or assist more?) students accused of misconduct. does anyone recall the attorney's name or organization? feel free to pm me if you prefer. thanks.

[jonnyss]

iirc a few years back, someone posted here about an attorney lobbying for lawyers to be able to assist (or assist more?) students accused of misconduct. does anyone recall the attorney's name or organization? feel free to pm me if you prefer. thanks.

[TrumpCard]

iirc a few years back, someone posted here about an attorney lobbying for lawyers to be able to assist (or assist more?) students accused of misconduct. does anyone recall the attorney's name or organization? feel free to pm me if you prefer. thanks.

I don't recall recommending him here, but Justin Dillon is a leader in this practice area:  https://www.dillonpllc.com/justin-dillon

[TrumpCard]

iirc a few years back, someone posted here about an attorney lobbying for lawyers to be able to assist (or assist more?) students accused of misconduct. does anyone recall the attorney's name or organization? feel free to pm me if you prefer. thanks.

I don't recall recommending him here, but Justin Dillon is a leader in this practice area:  https://www.dillonpllc.com/justin-dillon

[martyup]

Has the person who wrote the letter to Katie been identified?  Was there any indication that that person might have had animus towards high achievers, winners, white people, athletes, or specifically Katie?

[martyup]

Has the person who wrote the letter to Katie been identified?  Was there any indication that that person might have had animus towards high achievers, winners, white people, athletes, or specifically Katie?

[PalmTree]

Has the person who wrote the letter to Katie been identified?  Was there any indication that that person might have had animus towards high achievers, winners, white people, athletes, or specifically Katie?

According to this article (a good read, BTW), the letter was drafted by Tiffany Gabrielson, now Dean of Students at UC Law SF (previously Hastings).

Also, I believe Bob Ottilie, '77 is the lawyer advocating to allow external legal representation for students accused of Honor Code violations that someone else asked about earlier in this thread.

[PalmTree]

Has the person who wrote the letter to Katie been identified?  Was there any indication that that person might have had animus towards high achievers, winners, white people, athletes, or specifically Katie?

According to this article (a good read, BTW), the letter was drafted by Tiffany Gabrielson, now Dean of Students at UC Law SF (previously Hastings).

Also, I believe Bob Ottilie, '77 is the lawyer advocating to allow external legal representation for students accused of Honor Code violations that someone else asked about earlier in this thread.

[BostonCard]

Has the person who wrote the letter to Katie been identified?  Was there any indication that that person might have had animus towards high achievers, winners, white people, athletes, or specifically Katie?

Hanlon’s Razer: Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity.

BC

[BostonCard]

Has the person who wrote the letter to Katie been identified?  Was there any indication that that person might have had animus towards high achievers, winners, white people, athletes, or specifically Katie?

Hanlon’s Razer: Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity.

BC

[PalmTree]

Has the person who wrote the letter to Katie been identified?  Was there any indication that that person might have had animus towards high achievers, winners, white people, athletes, or specifically Katie?

Hanlon’s Razer: Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity.

BC

Exactly - and it galls me to see where that OCS person is now.

[PalmTree]

Has the person who wrote the letter to Katie been identified?  Was there any indication that that person might have had animus towards high achievers, winners, white people, athletes, or specifically Katie?

Hanlon’s Razer: Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity.

BC

Exactly - and it galls me to see where that OCS person is now.

[fullmetal]

Debra Zumwalt JD '79 is stepping down as Stanford vice-president and general counsel (chief legal officer) after 26 years on the job.  I wonder what her role was in all this.  The article outlines a lot of Ms. Zumwalt's contributions to Stanford, notably helping Stanford weather charges of fraudulent indirect research cost accounting as outside counsel in the '90s.  

https://news.stanford.edu/stories/2026/0...al-counsel

[fullmetal]

Debra Zumwalt JD '79 is stepping down as Stanford vice-president and general counsel (chief legal officer) after 26 years on the job.  I wonder what her role was in all this.  The article outlines a lot of Ms. Zumwalt's contributions to Stanford, notably helping Stanford weather charges of fraudulent indirect research cost accounting as outside counsel in the '90s.  

https://news.stanford.edu/stories/2026/0...al-counsel

[Mick]

Has the person who wrote the letter to Katie been identified?  Was there any indication that that person might have had animus towards high achievers, winners, white people, athletes, or specifically Katie?

According to this article (a good read, BTW), the letter was drafted by Tiffany Gabrielson, now Dean of Students at UC Law SF (previously Hastings).

Also, I believe Bob Ottile, '77 is the lawyer advocating to allow external legal representation for students accused of Honor Code violations that someone else asked about earlier in this thread.

Great article. Interesting title: "Stanford's War Against Its Own Students." Key lesson: lawyer up ASAP when confronted with authorities. You are the rankest of amateurs and the adverse institution will bring the horses. Get one of your own.

Along those lines, a video on why one shouldn't talk to the police (or really any authority). I made my sons sit through this. Taught by a very entertaining law school professor (former criminal defense attorney) ably abetted by a police officer who was a student in the class. It's very long and very thorough:

Brian Video July 16x9 V1 FactoryBroll

[Mick]

Has the person who wrote the letter to Katie been identified?  Was there any indication that that person might have had animus towards high achievers, winners, white people, athletes, or specifically Katie?

According to this article (a good read, BTW), the letter was drafted by Tiffany Gabrielson, now Dean of Students at UC Law SF (previously Hastings).

Also, I believe Bob Ottile, '77 is the lawyer advocating to allow external legal representation for students accused of Honor Code violations that someone else asked about earlier in this thread.

Great article. Interesting title: "Stanford's War Against Its Own Students." Key lesson: lawyer up ASAP when confronted with authorities. You are the rankest of amateurs and the adverse institution will bring the horses. Get one of your own.

Along those lines, a video on why one shouldn't talk to the police (or really any authority). I made my sons sit through this. Taught by a very entertaining law school professor (former criminal defense attorney) ably abetted by a police officer who was a student in the class. It's very long and very thorough:

Brian Video July 16x9 V1 FactoryBroll

[jacket3ree]

Today is the 42nd anniversary of receiving a call in the dead of night that my younger brother had just committed suicide through self-immolation. I give nothing but grace to the Meyers and the memory of their daughter. It's more complicated than anyone knows, including me. I'm four decades in and still working on getting past anger at him for doing that to my mother. Hopefully I can turn that anger to forgiveness before I see him again.

The discussion about disciplinary proceedings and student advocacy made me think back to this period in time - my junior year - when within a month of flying home to bury my brother, I was elected president of our fraternity. As president, I soon thereafter found myself in Dean Dull's office (real name!) after a run in with the KAs. The KAs really leaned into the Old South thing. We had a shipwreck party every spring where no one got hurt other than the pig with rebar run from snout to tail and slow roasted to perfection over a couple days. Or the finish on our chapter room floor after we cleared out the beach sand from the weekend. Or spring GPAs. The KAs had some sort of plantation ball and as part of their festivities they marched around fraternity row (large) dressed in grey, carrying a large stars and bars, firing a cannon off at every house on their way to the Dean's office where they would take the Institute's ultimate disciplinarian, clad in blue that day, into custody. Always made the yearbook.

They swung by our house. Many of our brothers are brothers. I remember the look on Franco's face as he said 'I don't need to be here right now' and immediately heard his best friend Ace (white dude from the north - as bad as it gets for the KAs) whip through our glass front door and in a single motion frisbeed one of those ninja stars an inch past some KA's ear right into a tree on the other side of the street. Melee ensued. Two days later, a guy named Don threw the severed pig head through a KA window in the dead of night, Godfather style.

I'm summoned to Dean Dull's office by his secretary showing up at our door during lunch and demanding to see me. Alone. Now!!  I went, not with fear, but anger about what the KAs did (and said) and vowing to have my brothers' backs because they had my back when I got that call in February. Hard to explain what that is like. Middle of midterms, no sleep, pure shock, zombie-like state. Without saying a word, I had a flight home that night paid for, a ride to the airport, at least a dozen brothers and little sisters greeting me at the gate when I landed in ATL (back when you could do that), and when I got back to the house, immaculate notes from every class I had missed stacked neatly on my desk. They rotated assignments. Still don't know how they knew how to do that.

The Dean and I had an hour-long conversation in an oven of an office. He noted this was the first time I'd been in his office. He had looked me up. 'I see you are doing well here; that's good.' Then came the time to name names. I knew all the names. I lawyered up, Hoover style. (That's the AH analog - always an AH analog.) Then came a lecture on what it means to be in charge. Got it. I made a suggestion that parading around campus supporting a bunch of intolerant bigots who clung to The Lost Cause like it was a comfort blanket wasn't really a good look in 1984. In my opinion, sir.  "I'll let you know. Watch your mailbox."

Relaying what had happened to the guys and gals, everyone thought I would be suspended or expelled. Whatever - I'm still in a little bit of a fugue state and no way am I giving up these guys. Finally in Box 36100, a few days later the envelope from the Office of The Dean, and his handwritten initials. Oh shit, this might get real, real fast. 

"Dear Mr. Jacketree,

After careful consideration of our dilemma, I suggest that you do not have mixers with Kappa Alpha. Please keep your own pigs on your own property henceforth.

Sincerely,

Jim Dull

P.S.  Congratulations on being on my good list every quarter. 

P.P.S. Dr. Meyer recently informed me of your brother's passing. Let me know if you need anything."

[jacket3ree]

Today is the 42nd anniversary of receiving a call in the dead of night that my younger brother had just committed suicide through self-immolation. I give nothing but grace to the Meyers and the memory of their daughter. It's more complicated than anyone knows, including me. I'm four decades in and still working on getting past anger at him for doing that to my mother. Hopefully I can turn that anger to forgiveness before I see him again.

The discussion about disciplinary proceedings and student advocacy made me think back to this period in time - my junior year - when within a month of flying home to bury my brother, I was elected president of our fraternity. As president, I soon thereafter found myself in Dean Dull's office (real name!) after a run in with the KAs. The KAs really leaned into the Old South thing. We had a shipwreck party every spring where no one got hurt other than the pig with rebar run from snout to tail and slow roasted to perfection over a couple days. Or the finish on our chapter room floor after we cleared out the beach sand from the weekend. Or spring GPAs. The KAs had some sort of plantation ball and as part of their festivities they marched around fraternity row (large) dressed in grey, carrying a large stars and bars, firing a cannon off at every house on their way to the Dean's office where they would take the Institute's ultimate disciplinarian, clad in blue that day, into custody. Always made the yearbook.

They swung by our house. Many of our brothers are brothers. I remember the look on Franco's face as he said 'I don't need to be here right now' and immediately heard his best friend Ace (white dude from the north - as bad as it gets for the KAs) whip through our glass front door and in a single motion frisbeed one of those ninja stars an inch past some KA's ear right into a tree on the other side of the street. Melee ensued. Two days later, a guy named Don threw the severed pig head through a KA window in the dead of night, Godfather style.

I'm summoned to Dean Dull's office by his secretary showing up at our door during lunch and demanding to see me. Alone. Now!!  I went, not with fear, but anger about what the KAs did (and said) and vowing to have my brothers' backs because they had my back when I got that call in February. Hard to explain what that is like. Middle of midterms, no sleep, pure shock, zombie-like state. Without saying a word, I had a flight home that night paid for, a ride to the airport, at least a dozen brothers and little sisters greeting me at the gate when I landed in ATL (back when you could do that), and when I got back to the house, immaculate notes from every class I had missed stacked neatly on my desk. They rotated assignments. Still don't know how they knew how to do that.

The Dean and I had an hour-long conversation in an oven of an office. He noted this was the first time I'd been in his office. He had looked me up. 'I see you are doing well here; that's good.' Then came the time to name names. I knew all the names. I lawyered up, Hoover style. (That's the AH analog - always an AH analog.) Then came a lecture on what it means to be in charge. Got it. I made a suggestion that parading around campus supporting a bunch of intolerant bigots who clung to The Lost Cause like it was a comfort blanket wasn't really a good look in 1984. In my opinion, sir.  "I'll let you know. Watch your mailbox."

Relaying what had happened to the guys and gals, everyone thought I would be suspended or expelled. Whatever - I'm still in a little bit of a fugue state and no way am I giving up these guys. Finally in Box 36100, a few days later the envelope from the Office of The Dean, and his handwritten initials. Oh shit, this might get real, real fast. 

"Dear Mr. Jacketree,

After careful consideration of our dilemma, I suggest that you do not have mixers with Kappa Alpha. Please keep your own pigs on your own property henceforth.

Sincerely,

Jim Dull

P.S.  Congratulations on being on my good list every quarter. 

P.P.S. Dr. Meyer recently informed me of your brother's passing. Let me know if you need anything."

[martyup]

According to Tiffany Gabrielson (https://www.uclawsf.edu/2023/09/05/dean-...abrielson/):

“It’s really important for me to understand the students’ perspectives and understand their stories,” she said. “That’s how I make policy decisions that best reflect their needs and wants.”
Reflecting on what she hopes to accomplish in her new role, Gabrielson said she wants to create an environment in which students can feel and be heard, and one in which everyone can thrive.
As someone who’s been through tough times in law school, Gabrielson also has a few words of advice for students: “Law school is hard, but you’re going to get through it. There’s a lot of people to help you get through it, and I’m one of them.”



Even after her email caused the death of Katie, she continued her campaign against Stanford students.

The most devastating inside account of woke campus 'policing' you'll ever read: Searing investigation exposes Stanford bosses hounding undergrads to suicide that begs question - who'd be a student today?

[martyup]

According to Tiffany Gabrielson (https://www.uclawsf.edu/2023/09/05/dean-...abrielson/):

“It’s really important for me to understand the students’ perspectives and understand their stories,” she said. “That’s how I make policy decisions that best reflect their needs and wants.”
Reflecting on what she hopes to accomplish in her new role, Gabrielson said she wants to create an environment in which students can feel and be heard, and one in which everyone can thrive.
As someone who’s been through tough times in law school, Gabrielson also has a few words of advice for students: “Law school is hard, but you’re going to get through it. There’s a lot of people to help you get through it, and I’m one of them.”



Even after her email caused the death of Katie, she continued her campaign against Stanford students.

The most devastating inside account of woke campus 'policing' you'll ever read: Searing investigation exposes Stanford bosses hounding undergrads to suicide that begs question - who'd be a student today?

[M T]

Brian Video July 16x9 V1 FactoryBroll

That video is very sobering.  Especially these days.

Jacket3ree, I am at a loss for words for your family's tragedy
and its ongoing effects.

[M T]

Brian Video July 16x9 V1 FactoryBroll

That video is very sobering.  Especially these days.

Jacket3ree, I am at a loss for words for your family's tragedy
and its ongoing effects.

[Mick]

Today is the 42nd anniversary of receiving a call in the dead of night that my younger brother had just committed suicide through self-immolation. I give nothing but grace to the Meyers and the memory of their daughter. It's more complicated than anyone knows, including me. I'm four decades in and still working on getting past anger at him for doing that to my mother. Hopefully I can turn that anger to forgiveness before I see him again.

The discussion about disciplinary proceedings and student advocacy made me think back to this period in time - my junior year - when within a month of flying home to bury my brother, I was elected president of our fraternity. As president, I soon thereafter found myself in Dean Dull's office (real name!) after a run in with the KAs. The KAs really leaned into the Old South thing. We had a shipwreck party every spring where no one got hurt other than the pig with rebar run from snout to tail and slow roasted to perfection over a couple days. Or the finish on our chapter room floor after we cleared out the beach sand from the weekend. Or spring GPAs. The KAs had some sort of plantation ball and as part of their festivities they marched around fraternity row (large) dressed in grey, carrying a large stars and bars, firing a cannon off at every house on their way to the Dean's office where they would take the Institute's ultimate disciplinarian, clad in blue that day, into custody. Always made the yearbook.

They swung by our house. Many of our brothers are brothers. I remember the look on Franco's face as he said 'I don't need to be here right now' and immediately heard his best friend Ace (white dude from the north - as bad as it gets for the KAs) whip through our glass front door and in a single motion frisbeed one of those ninja stars an inch past some KA's ear right into a tree on the other side of the street. Melee ensued. Two days later, a guy named Don threw the severed pig head through a KA window in the dead of night, Godfather style.

I'm summoned to Dean Dull's office by his secretary showing up at our door during lunch and demanding to see me. Alone. Now!!  I went, not with fear, but anger about what the KAs did (and said) and vowing to have my brothers' backs because they had my back when I got that call in February. Hard to explain what that is like. Middle of midterms, no sleep, pure shock, zombie-like state. Without saying a word, I had a flight home that night paid for, a ride to the airport, at least a dozen brothers and little sisters greeting me at the gate when I landed in ATL (back when you could do that), and when I got back to the house, immaculate notes from every class I had missed stacked neatly on my desk. They rotated assignments. Still don't know how they knew how to do that.

The Dean and I had an hour-long conversation in an oven of an office. He noted this was the first time I'd been in his office. He had looked me up. 'I see you are doing well here; that's good.' Then came the time to name names. I knew all the names. I lawyered up, Hoover style. (That's the AH analog - always an AH analog.) Then came a lecture on what it means to be in charge. Got it. I made a suggestion that parading around campus supporting a bunch of intolerant bigots who clung to The Lost Cause like it was a comfort blanket wasn't really a good look in 1984. In my opinion, sir.  "I'll let you know. Watch your mailbox."

Relaying what had happened to the guys and gals, everyone thought I would be suspended or expelled. Whatever - I'm still in a little bit of a fugue state and no way am I giving up these guys. Finally in Box 36100, a few days later the envelope from the Office of The Dean, and his handwritten initials. Oh shit, this might get real, real fast. 

"Dear Mr. Jacketree,

After careful consideration of our dilemma, I suggest that you do not have mixers with Kappa Alpha. Please keep your own pigs on your own property henceforth.

Sincerely,

Jim Dull

P.S.  Congratulations on being on my good list every quarter. 

P.P.S. Dr. Meyer recently informed me of your brother's passing. Let me know if you need anything."

Your post brought back a lot of memories for me.

- When I was a freshman in 1980, one of my neighbors had a giant stars-and-bars flag in his dorm room. He was from San Francisco, and I genuinely don't think he know the history of that flag. I was walking down the hall with our RA -- a North Carolina native -- who sees it out of the corner of his eye, pokes his head into the room, nods at the flag and says to my neighbor, "you know they were racists, traitors and losers -- right?" Shook his head, rolled his eyes and kept walking.

- Without going into too much detail, I got on the wrong side of a fellow classmate. We both had positions of responsibility, and she vehemently disagreed with the way I discharged my duties and demanded a meeting with the Dean. She told her side of the story (15 minutes), and I told my side (5 minutes). Neither of us disagreed with each other in the slightest. The Dean looked at both of us. "Is that it?" he said. "Yes," she said "don't you think he should be expelled? Or at least suspended?" He rolled his eyes and "You're both wasting my time. Get outta here." Thanks, Dean.

- In the last two decades, eleven of my friends, co-workers, family members, colleagues, and classmates have taken their own lives. Some I knew quite well, others not so much. I can't figure out the common elements to their motivations, but I am going to try. I'm in the midst of starting a non-profit focused on understanding mid- and late-in-life suicide. I think it's poorly understood, and deserves attention.

[Mick]

Today is the 42nd anniversary of receiving a call in the dead of night that my younger brother had just committed suicide through self-immolation. I give nothing but grace to the Meyers and the memory of their daughter. It's more complicated than anyone knows, including me. I'm four decades in and still working on getting past anger at him for doing that to my mother. Hopefully I can turn that anger to forgiveness before I see him again.

The discussion about disciplinary proceedings and student advocacy made me think back to this period in time - my junior year - when within a month of flying home to bury my brother, I was elected president of our fraternity. As president, I soon thereafter found myself in Dean Dull's office (real name!) after a run in with the KAs. The KAs really leaned into the Old South thing. We had a shipwreck party every spring where no one got hurt other than the pig with rebar run from snout to tail and slow roasted to perfection over a couple days. Or the finish on our chapter room floor after we cleared out the beach sand from the weekend. Or spring GPAs. The KAs had some sort of plantation ball and as part of their festivities they marched around fraternity row (large) dressed in grey, carrying a large stars and bars, firing a cannon off at every house on their way to the Dean's office where they would take the Institute's ultimate disciplinarian, clad in blue that day, into custody. Always made the yearbook.

They swung by our house. Many of our brothers are brothers. I remember the look on Franco's face as he said 'I don't need to be here right now' and immediately heard his best friend Ace (white dude from the north - as bad as it gets for the KAs) whip through our glass front door and in a single motion frisbeed one of those ninja stars an inch past some KA's ear right into a tree on the other side of the street. Melee ensued. Two days later, a guy named Don threw the severed pig head through a KA window in the dead of night, Godfather style.

I'm summoned to Dean Dull's office by his secretary showing up at our door during lunch and demanding to see me. Alone. Now!!  I went, not with fear, but anger about what the KAs did (and said) and vowing to have my brothers' backs because they had my back when I got that call in February. Hard to explain what that is like. Middle of midterms, no sleep, pure shock, zombie-like state. Without saying a word, I had a flight home that night paid for, a ride to the airport, at least a dozen brothers and little sisters greeting me at the gate when I landed in ATL (back when you could do that), and when I got back to the house, immaculate notes from every class I had missed stacked neatly on my desk. They rotated assignments. Still don't know how they knew how to do that.

The Dean and I had an hour-long conversation in an oven of an office. He noted this was the first time I'd been in his office. He had looked me up. 'I see you are doing well here; that's good.' Then came the time to name names. I knew all the names. I lawyered up, Hoover style. (That's the AH analog - always an AH analog.) Then came a lecture on what it means to be in charge. Got it. I made a suggestion that parading around campus supporting a bunch of intolerant bigots who clung to The Lost Cause like it was a comfort blanket wasn't really a good look in 1984. In my opinion, sir.  "I'll let you know. Watch your mailbox."

Relaying what had happened to the guys and gals, everyone thought I would be suspended or expelled. Whatever - I'm still in a little bit of a fugue state and no way am I giving up these guys. Finally in Box 36100, a few days later the envelope from the Office of The Dean, and his handwritten initials. Oh shit, this might get real, real fast. 

"Dear Mr. Jacketree,

After careful consideration of our dilemma, I suggest that you do not have mixers with Kappa Alpha. Please keep your own pigs on your own property henceforth.

Sincerely,

Jim Dull

P.S.  Congratulations on being on my good list every quarter. 

P.P.S. Dr. Meyer recently informed me of your brother's passing. Let me know if you need anything."

Your post brought back a lot of memories for me.

- When I was a freshman in 1980, one of my neighbors had a giant stars-and-bars flag in his dorm room. He was from San Francisco, and I genuinely don't think he know the history of that flag. I was walking down the hall with our RA -- a North Carolina native -- who sees it out of the corner of his eye, pokes his head into the room, nods at the flag and says to my neighbor, "you know they were racists, traitors and losers -- right?" Shook his head, rolled his eyes and kept walking.

- Without going into too much detail, I got on the wrong side of a fellow classmate. We both had positions of responsibility, and she vehemently disagreed with the way I discharged my duties and demanded a meeting with the Dean. She told her side of the story (15 minutes), and I told my side (5 minutes). Neither of us disagreed with each other in the slightest. The Dean looked at both of us. "Is that it?" he said. "Yes," she said "don't you think he should be expelled? Or at least suspended?" He rolled his eyes and "You're both wasting my time. Get outta here." Thanks, Dean.

- In the last two decades, eleven of my friends, co-workers, family members, colleagues, and classmates have taken their own lives. Some I knew quite well, others not so much. I can't figure out the common elements to their motivations, but I am going to try. I'm in the midst of starting a non-profit focused on understanding mid- and late-in-life suicide. I think it's poorly understood, and deserves attention.

[jonnyss]

Has the person who wrote the letter to Katie been identified?  Was there any indication that that person might have had animus towards high achievers, winners, white people, athletes, or specifically Katie?

According to this article (a good read, BTW), the letter was drafted by Tiffany Gabrielson, now Dean of Students at UC Law SF (previously Hastings).

Also, I believe Bob Ottilie, '77 is the lawyer advocating to allow external legal representation for students accused of Honor Code violations that someone else asked about earlier in this thread.

thanks for the lead to bob ottilie. here is his post from 2 months ago articulating problems with ocs and 15 years of attempts by alumni to fix the problems.

[jonnyss]

Has the person who wrote the letter to Katie been identified?  Was there any indication that that person might have had animus towards high achievers, winners, white people, athletes, or specifically Katie?

According to this article (a good read, BTW), the letter was drafted by Tiffany Gabrielson, now Dean of Students at UC Law SF (previously Hastings).

Also, I believe Bob Ottilie, '77 is the lawyer advocating to allow external legal representation for students accused of Honor Code violations that someone else asked about earlier in this thread.

thanks for the lead to bob ottilie. here is his post from 2 months ago articulating problems with ocs and 15 years of attempts by alumni to fix the problems.

[Mick]

Has the person who wrote the letter to Katie been identified?  Was there any indication that that person might have had animus towards high achievers, winners, white people, athletes, or specifically Katie?

According to this article (a good read, BTW), the letter was drafted by Tiffany Gabrielson, now Dean of Students at UC Law SF (previously Hastings).

Also, I believe Bob Ottilie, '77 is the lawyer advocating to allow external legal representation for students accused of Honor Code violations that someone else asked about earlier in this thread.

thanks for the lead to Bob Ottilie. here is his post from 2 months ago articulating problems with OCS and 15 years of attempts by alumni to fix the problems.

I think the challenge is that the instinct of most senior administrative personnel is to protect the University over the students, whereas Bob is suggesting the opposite, and that perhaps it's not the world's worst thing to afford accused students protections similar to those of accused criminals in the USA. 

It may be that the new general counsel who is taking over after Zumwalt will understand that the student constituency needs to be protected (more than they are already doing).

[Mick]

Has the person who wrote the letter to Katie been identified?  Was there any indication that that person might have had animus towards high achievers, winners, white people, athletes, or specifically Katie?

According to this article (a good read, BTW), the letter was drafted by Tiffany Gabrielson, now Dean of Students at UC Law SF (previously Hastings).

Also, I believe Bob Ottilie, '77 is the lawyer advocating to allow external legal representation for students accused of Honor Code violations that someone else asked about earlier in this thread.

thanks for the lead to Bob Ottilie. here is his post from 2 months ago articulating problems with OCS and 15 years of attempts by alumni to fix the problems.

I think the challenge is that the instinct of most senior administrative personnel is to protect the University over the students, whereas Bob is suggesting the opposite, and that perhaps it's not the world's worst thing to afford accused students protections similar to those of accused criminals in the USA. 

It may be that the new general counsel who is taking over after Zumwalt will understand that the student constituency needs to be protected (more than they are already doing).

[jonnyss]

Has the person who wrote the letter to Katie been identified?  Was there any indication that that person might have had animus towards high achievers, winners, white people, athletes, or specifically Katie?

According to this article (a good read, BTW), the letter was drafted by Tiffany Gabrielson, now Dean of Students at UC Law SF (previously Hastings).

Also, I believe Bob Ottilie, '77 is the lawyer advocating to allow external legal representation for students accused of Honor Code violations that someone else asked about earlier in this thread.

thanks for the lead to Bob Ottilie. here is his post from 2 months ago articulating problems with OCS and 15 years of attempts by alumni to fix the problems.

I think the challenge is that the instinct of most senior administrative personnel is to protect the University over the students, whereas Bob is suggesting the opposite, and that perhaps it's not the world's worst thing to afford accused students protections similar to those of accused criminals in the USA. 

It may be that the new general counsel who is taking over after Zumwalt will understand that the student constituency needs to be protected (more than they are already doing).

i agree.

in addition, outside the box of balancing prosecution with defense, there are alternative modes available, such as mediation, conflict resolution, community service, mental health diversion.

[jonnyss]

Has the person who wrote the letter to Katie been identified?  Was there any indication that that person might have had animus towards high achievers, winners, white people, athletes, or specifically Katie?

According to this article (a good read, BTW), the letter was drafted by Tiffany Gabrielson, now Dean of Students at UC Law SF (previously Hastings).

Also, I believe Bob Ottilie, '77 is the lawyer advocating to allow external legal representation for students accused of Honor Code violations that someone else asked about earlier in this thread.

thanks for the lead to Bob Ottilie. here is his post from 2 months ago articulating problems with OCS and 15 years of attempts by alumni to fix the problems.

I think the challenge is that the instinct of most senior administrative personnel is to protect the University over the students, whereas Bob is suggesting the opposite, and that perhaps it's not the world's worst thing to afford accused students protections similar to those of accused criminals in the USA. 

It may be that the new general counsel who is taking over after Zumwalt will understand that the student constituency needs to be protected (more than they are already doing).

i agree.

in addition, outside the box of balancing prosecution with defense, there are alternative modes available, such as mediation, conflict resolution, community service, mental health diversion.

[TrumpCard]

Great article. Interesting title: "Stanford's War Against Its Own Students." Key lesson: lawyer up ASAP when confronted with authorities. You are the rankest of amateurs and the adverse institution will bring the horses. Get one of your own.

Along those lines, a video on why one shouldn't talk to the police (or really any authority). I made my sons sit through this. Taught by a very entertaining law school professor (former criminal defense attorney) ably abetted by a police officer who was a student in the class. It's very long and very thorough:

Brian Video July 16x9 V1 FactoryBroll

I have no experience with university disciplinary proceedings, and I can't really say what approach is best in that context, but I'll take the invitation to respond to this tangent on law enforcement.  As a lawyer of 20+ years (even though I practice in civil cases), I've repeatedly seen the benefits of lawyering up immediately and the costs of not doing it.  There is a reason the Bill of Rights includes the right to counsel along with the right to not have soldiers quarter in your home.  I understand it might seem cumbersome or unnecessarily expensive to hire counsel or that you might be suspicious of whether a public defender will really work hard to protect you.  (By the way, I know some very capable PDs.)  Nevertheless, to anyone reading who might eventually find this useful, I want you to know that it is hubris to speak with law enforcement without consulting counsel.  And don't think you're safe if you're white and/or female.  My law school class got a lecture on this in first year crim law similar to the one above, and it left an impression.

[TrumpCard]

Great article. Interesting title: "Stanford's War Against Its Own Students." Key lesson: lawyer up ASAP when confronted with authorities. You are the rankest of amateurs and the adverse institution will bring the horses. Get one of your own.

Along those lines, a video on why one shouldn't talk to the police (or really any authority). I made my sons sit through this. Taught by a very entertaining law school professor (former criminal defense attorney) ably abetted by a police officer who was a student in the class. It's very long and very thorough:

Brian Video July 16x9 V1 FactoryBroll

I have no experience with university disciplinary proceedings, and I can't really say what approach is best in that context, but I'll take the invitation to respond to this tangent on law enforcement.  As a lawyer of 20+ years (even though I practice in civil cases), I've repeatedly seen the benefits of lawyering up immediately and the costs of not doing it.  There is a reason the Bill of Rights includes the right to counsel along with the right to not have soldiers quarter in your home.  I understand it might seem cumbersome or unnecessarily expensive to hire counsel or that you might be suspicious of whether a public defender will really work hard to protect you.  (By the way, I know some very capable PDs.)  Nevertheless, to anyone reading who might eventually find this useful, I want you to know that it is hubris to speak with law enforcement without consulting counsel.  And don't think you're safe if you're white and/or female.  My law school class got a lecture on this in first year crim law similar to the one above, and it left an impression.

[BostonCard]

I think the challenge is that the instinct of most senior administrative personnel is to protect the University over the students, whereas Bob is suggesting the opposite, and that perhaps it's not the world's worst thing to afford accused students protections similar to those of accused criminals in the USA. 

If the instinct was to protect the university, then the decision to forge ahead with the Meyer investigation backfired spectacularly.  But even more to the point, I’m not sure what the case was that moving ahead would protect the University.  Even had she not taken her life, if word had gotten out, the media would have run with the idea that a male football player who committed sexual assault on a minor was not disciplined while a female soccer player was dragged through the investigative bureaucracy for standing up for her teammate.  Something about this case doesn’t totally add up.

On your other point, I agree, and I think having access to defense counsel probably would have increased the likelihood of a resolution that worked for all.  There might be a tendency to think that “lawyering up” is what guilty people do to avoid responsibility, but it can just as much lead to the equivalent of a plea deal that can mostly satisfy everyone or most people.  And it also does protect innocent people from being railroaded.  And it helps vulnerable people see a path forward to resolution.

One thing that needs to be pointed out is that any protections afforded by due process are afforded to the worst people you can imagine as much as sympathetic accused.  Think of someone like Brock Turner using the protections of due process.  That can produce friction with victims rights advocates, and even with the everyday people who want maximum protections for sympathetic defendants but to have the book thrown at those “clearly guilty”.  To me, I am willing to accept the necessity of protecting the most odious to ensure that everyone is treated fairly, but you have to have the courage of conviction to say that due process means due process for all and not just for the people you like.

BC

[BostonCard]

I think the challenge is that the instinct of most senior administrative personnel is to protect the University over the students, whereas Bob is suggesting the opposite, and that perhaps it's not the world's worst thing to afford accused students protections similar to those of accused criminals in the USA. 

If the instinct was to protect the university, then the decision to forge ahead with the Meyer investigation backfired spectacularly.  But even more to the point, I’m not sure what the case was that moving ahead would protect the University.  Even had she not taken her life, if word had gotten out, the media would have run with the idea that a male football player who committed sexual assault on a minor was not disciplined while a female soccer player was dragged through the investigative bureaucracy for standing up for her teammate.  Something about this case doesn’t totally add up.

On your other point, I agree, and I think having access to defense counsel probably would have increased the likelihood of a resolution that worked for all.  There might be a tendency to think that “lawyering up” is what guilty people do to avoid responsibility, but it can just as much lead to the equivalent of a plea deal that can mostly satisfy everyone or most people.  And it also does protect innocent people from being railroaded.  And it helps vulnerable people see a path forward to resolution.

One thing that needs to be pointed out is that any protections afforded by due process are afforded to the worst people you can imagine as much as sympathetic accused.  Think of someone like Brock Turner using the protections of due process.  That can produce friction with victims rights advocates, and even with the everyday people who want maximum protections for sympathetic defendants but to have the book thrown at those “clearly guilty”.  To me, I am willing to accept the necessity of protecting the most odious to ensure that everyone is treated fairly, but you have to have the courage of conviction to say that due process means due process for all and not just for the people you like.

BC

[Mick]

One thing that needs to be pointed out is that any protections afforded by due process are afforded to the worst people you can imagine as much as sympathetic accused.  Think of someone like Brock Turner using the protections of due process.  That can produce friction with victims rights advocates, and even with the everyday people who want maximum protections for sympathetic defendants but to have the book thrown at those “clearly guilty”.  To me, I am willing to accept the necessity of protecting the most odious to ensure that everyone is treated fairly, but you have to have the courage of conviction to say that due process means due process for all and not just for the people you like.

I have a friend who is a prosecutor. I asked him if he was ever uncertain about the guilt of the people he was trying to put away. He said in eight years, just once at the start of the case, then reversed himself midway thrrough. If you're dealing with people who are that certain that they have accused the correct person 100% of the time, it seems to me that there is too much room for error, so everyone (good or bad) requires legal counsel.

[Mick]

One thing that needs to be pointed out is that any protections afforded by due process are afforded to the worst people you can imagine as much as sympathetic accused.  Think of someone like Brock Turner using the protections of due process.  That can produce friction with victims rights advocates, and even with the everyday people who want maximum protections for sympathetic defendants but to have the book thrown at those “clearly guilty”.  To me, I am willing to accept the necessity of protecting the most odious to ensure that everyone is treated fairly, but you have to have the courage of conviction to say that due process means due process for all and not just for the people you like.

I have a friend who is a prosecutor. I asked him if he was ever uncertain about the guilt of the people he was trying to put away. He said in eight years, just once at the start of the case, then reversed himself midway thrrough. If you're dealing with people who are that certain that they have accused the correct person 100% of the time, it seems to me that there is too much room for error, so everyone (good or bad) requires legal counsel.

[Mick]

From 2010 - 2014, the suicide levels among teens in Santa Clara County high schools were so elevated (5x the national average) that the CDC commissioned an epidemiological study on adolescent suicide in Santa Clara County. The county suffered 20 teen suicides annually, and was referred to as an urgent public health problem.

Centers for Disease Control team to investigate teen suicide in Santa Clara County
Palo Alto: CDC to help craft suicide-prevention measures – The Mercury News

[Mick]

From 2010 - 2014, the suicide levels among teens in Santa Clara County high schools were so elevated (5x the national average) that the CDC commissioned an epidemiological study on adolescent suicide in Santa Clara County. The county suffered 20 teen suicides annually, and was referred to as an urgent public health problem.

Centers for Disease Control team to investigate teen suicide in Santa Clara County
Palo Alto: CDC to help craft suicide-prevention measures – The Mercury News

[82lsju]

From 2010 - 2014, the suicide levels among teens in Santa Clara County high schools were so elevated (5x the national average) that the CDC commissioned an epidemiological study on adolescent suicide in Santa Clara County. The county suffered 20 teen suicides annually, and was referred to as an urgent public health problem.

Centers for Disease Control team to investigate teen suicide in Santa Clara County
Palo Alto: CDC to help craft suicide-prevention measures – The Mercury News

there have been four in the last two years, three in the last year, and one last week

https://padailypost.com/2026/02/03/train...palo-alto/

https://midpenpost.org/2026/02/09/recent...revention/

[82lsju]

From 2010 - 2014, the suicide levels among teens in Santa Clara County high schools were so elevated (5x the national average) that the CDC commissioned an epidemiological study on adolescent suicide in Santa Clara County. The county suffered 20 teen suicides annually, and was referred to as an urgent public health problem.

Centers for Disease Control team to investigate teen suicide in Santa Clara County
Palo Alto: CDC to help craft suicide-prevention measures – The Mercury News

there have been four in the last two years, three in the last year, and one last week

https://padailypost.com/2026/02/03/train...palo-alto/

https://midpenpost.org/2026/02/09/recent...revention/