[washingtonismoney]

Just busting out an old classic subject line, with some modifications.

(In this case, everything didn't suck. But enough did -- specifically, the epic offensive brainfart from the coaching staff.)

[washingtonismoney]

Just busting out an old classic subject line, with some modifications.

(In this case, everything didn't suck. But enough did -- specifically, the epic offensive brainfart from the coaching staff.)

[oman]

Oregon is going to be so overconfident. 

I ruined the lamb and thus had to drink all the red wine. 

[oman]

Oregon is going to be so overconfident. 

I ruined the lamb and thus had to drink all the red wine. 

[PrinceLightfoot]

First drive was great until the colossal fumble failure in the redzone running the Lloyd package. Then we moved away from our offensive identity again! Extremely frustrating to see that and see drives stall with a 3-and-out. This defense was not stellar yet they held us to 2-9 on third down conversions. We should not be having this issue going into the back end of our season.

I am glad we won, but I think I need to order some heart medication.

[PrinceLightfoot]

First drive was great until the colossal fumble failure in the redzone running the Lloyd package. Then we moved away from our offensive identity again! Extremely frustrating to see that and see drives stall with a 3-and-out. This defense was not stellar yet they held us to 2-9 on third down conversions. We should not be having this issue going into the back end of our season.

I am glad we won, but I think I need to order some heart medication.

[76lsjumb]

Just busting out an old classic subject line, with some modifications.

(In this case, everything didn't suck. But enough did -- specifically, the epic offensive brainfart from the coaching staff.)

Are you referring to giving the ball to Gaffney so that he could fumble it when , had he not done so [on probably the one unfortunate thing he did all night, so, believe me, I've got nothing bad to say about him for his effort tonight], we would have made a first down, likely have run out the clock [if not scored again as well], and handily beaten the point spread [which I think we did anyway].

Is that what has you so upset with the coaching staff?  Seems to me the people questioning the coaching staff should be the ones who had the country's leading QB and leading pass receiver, were playing at home, and ultimately couldn't score a touchdown on several tries inside the red zone.  You know, those people they showed heading for the exits with several minutes left to go in the game...

[76lsjumb]

Just busting out an old classic subject line, with some modifications.

(In this case, everything didn't suck. But enough did -- specifically, the epic offensive brainfart from the coaching staff.)

Are you referring to giving the ball to Gaffney so that he could fumble it when , had he not done so [on probably the one unfortunate thing he did all night, so, believe me, I've got nothing bad to say about him for his effort tonight], we would have made a first down, likely have run out the clock [if not scored again as well], and handily beaten the point spread [which I think we did anyway].

Is that what has you so upset with the coaching staff?  Seems to me the people questioning the coaching staff should be the ones who had the country's leading QB and leading pass receiver, were playing at home, and ultimately couldn't score a touchdown on several tries inside the red zone.  You know, those people they showed heading for the exits with several minutes left to go in the game...

[oman]

Mike Riley is a whole other level of crazy, yes.

[oman]

Mike Riley is a whole other level of crazy, yes.

[fullmetal]

In the first quarter, Shaw yanks Hogan, calls the WildCard, puts in Dallas Lloyd, and ends that drive with a Lloyd miscommunication/fumble that Oregon St. recovers and gets a punt out of.  Go defense!

Anyone get the feeling that Hogan is playing to not lose his starting job?  Maybe he played well last year because he knew it was unlikely that he'd get benched...

[fullmetal]

In the first quarter, Shaw yanks Hogan, calls the WildCard, puts in Dallas Lloyd, and ends that drive with a Lloyd miscommunication/fumble that Oregon St. recovers and gets a punt out of.  Go defense!

Anyone get the feeling that Hogan is playing to not lose his starting job?  Maybe he played well last year because he knew it was unlikely that he'd get benched...

[washingtonismoney]

Are you referring to giving the ball to Gaffney so that he could fumble it when , had he not done so [on probably the one unfortunate thing he did all night, so, believe me, I've got nothing bad to say about him for his effort tonight], we would have made a first down, likely have run out the clock [if not scored again as well], and handily beaten the point spread [which I think we did anyway].

Is that what has you so upset with the coaching staff?  Seems to me the people questioning the coaching staff should be the ones who had the country's leading QB and leading pass receiver, were playing at home, and ultimately couldn't score a touchdown on several tries inside the red zone.  You know, those people they showed heading for the exits with several minutes left to go in the game...

Nope, not referring to that. Sometimes the playcall doesn't work, and I have no complaints with that playcall. Still, it's all about results: this team hasn't scored above 30 points on offense in a month. UW and UCLA are stout defenses; no shame there in not scoring 30 there. Utah is fairly good. Oregon State stinks on defense. So, there are problems here, overall.

Specific to this game: Hogan looked so poor throwing the ball that many people have speculated he was hurt. And yet Gaffney only had 12 carries by the half and 25 overall, despite gashing the hell out of OSU at nearly every opportunity. How does that look like a reasonable distribution of resources?

In the first quarter, Shaw yanks Hogan, calls the WildCard, puts in Dallas Lloyd, and ends that drive with a Lloyd miscommunication/fumble that Oregon St. recovers and gets a punt out of.  Go defense!

Anyone get the feeling that Hogan is playing to not lose his starting job?  Maybe he played well last year because he knew it was unlikely that he'd get benched...

They've been using the "Lloyd Package" off and on all year, in such good Hogan performances as SJSU and WSU. Not a great theory.

[washingtonismoney]

Are you referring to giving the ball to Gaffney so that he could fumble it when , had he not done so [on probably the one unfortunate thing he did all night, so, believe me, I've got nothing bad to say about him for his effort tonight], we would have made a first down, likely have run out the clock [if not scored again as well], and handily beaten the point spread [which I think we did anyway].

Is that what has you so upset with the coaching staff?  Seems to me the people questioning the coaching staff should be the ones who had the country's leading QB and leading pass receiver, were playing at home, and ultimately couldn't score a touchdown on several tries inside the red zone.  You know, those people they showed heading for the exits with several minutes left to go in the game...

Nope, not referring to that. Sometimes the playcall doesn't work, and I have no complaints with that playcall. Still, it's all about results: this team hasn't scored above 30 points on offense in a month. UW and UCLA are stout defenses; no shame there in not scoring 30 there. Utah is fairly good. Oregon State stinks on defense. So, there are problems here, overall.

Specific to this game: Hogan looked so poor throwing the ball that many people have speculated he was hurt. And yet Gaffney only had 12 carries by the half and 25 overall, despite gashing the hell out of OSU at nearly every opportunity. How does that look like a reasonable distribution of resources?

In the first quarter, Shaw yanks Hogan, calls the WildCard, puts in Dallas Lloyd, and ends that drive with a Lloyd miscommunication/fumble that Oregon St. recovers and gets a punt out of.  Go defense!

Anyone get the feeling that Hogan is playing to not lose his starting job?  Maybe he played well last year because he knew it was unlikely that he'd get benched...

They've been using the "Lloyd Package" off and on all year, in such good Hogan performances as SJSU and WSU. Not a great theory.

[akCard]

The stats are up on Yahoo and it's not pretty, at least in the passing game.

http://sports.yahoo.com/ncaaf/stanford-c...310260061/

Hogan was 8 of 18 for 87 yards. Seriously, what's happened to his game compared to last year? He didn't look hurt to me in tonight's game but, as others pointed out, his passes had noticeably less zip than usual. Are the coaches trying to turn him into a pocket passer when that's not really his playing style?

[akCard]

The stats are up on Yahoo and it's not pretty, at least in the passing game.

http://sports.yahoo.com/ncaaf/stanford-c...310260061/

Hogan was 8 of 18 for 87 yards. Seriously, what's happened to his game compared to last year? He didn't look hurt to me in tonight's game but, as others pointed out, his passes had noticeably less zip than usual. Are the coaches trying to turn him into a pocket passer when that's not really his playing style?

[PrinceLightfoot]

The stats are up on Yahoo and it's not pretty, at least in the passing game.

http://sports.yahoo.com/ncaaf/stanford-c...310260061/

Hogan was 8 of 18 for 87 yards. Seriously, what's happened to his game compared to last year? He didn't look hurt to me in tonight's game but, as others pointed out, his passes had noticeably less zip than usual. Are the coaches trying to turn him into a pocket passer when that's not really his playing style?

Too bad they have the # of sacks and sacked yardage flipped. Eight sacks in one game while that offensive line had only given up nine sacks all season is stunning! Partying hard in the backfield!

[PrinceLightfoot]

The stats are up on Yahoo and it's not pretty, at least in the passing game.

http://sports.yahoo.com/ncaaf/stanford-c...310260061/

Hogan was 8 of 18 for 87 yards. Seriously, what's happened to his game compared to last year? He didn't look hurt to me in tonight's game but, as others pointed out, his passes had noticeably less zip than usual. Are the coaches trying to turn him into a pocket passer when that's not really his playing style?

Too bad they have the # of sacks and sacked yardage flipped. Eight sacks in one game while that offensive line had only given up nine sacks all season is stunning! Partying hard in the backfield!

[washingtonismoney]

Hogan was 8 of 18 for 87 yards. Seriously, what's happened to his game compared to last year? He didn't look hurt to me in tonight's game but, as others pointed out, his passes had noticeably less zip than usual. Are the coaches trying to turn him into a pocket passer when that's not really his playing style?

I think overall Hogan is better than last year. Even with today's stinkbomb he's well over a full yard per attempt better per pass. But he's been awfully inconsistent, and I attribute that partially to the coaches being too focused on turning him into a pocket passer and refusing to run him around a bit...and partially to Hogan's occasional odd monomania in only throwing the ball deep.

[washingtonismoney]

Hogan was 8 of 18 for 87 yards. Seriously, what's happened to his game compared to last year? He didn't look hurt to me in tonight's game but, as others pointed out, his passes had noticeably less zip than usual. Are the coaches trying to turn him into a pocket passer when that's not really his playing style?

I think overall Hogan is better than last year. Even with today's stinkbomb he's well over a full yard per attempt better per pass. But he's been awfully inconsistent, and I attribute that partially to the coaches being too focused on turning him into a pocket passer and refusing to run him around a bit...and partially to Hogan's occasional odd monomania in only throwing the ball deep.

[Extra Point]

Some of Hogan's throws were to covered receivers where only the receivers had a chance to catch them. Some of Hogan throws looked like some that Wilson threw at U.SC today with an injured hand. Only a few looked like the crips balls he has thrown in other games.

[Extra Point]

Some of Hogan's throws were to covered receivers where only the receivers had a chance to catch them. Some of Hogan throws looked like some that Wilson threw at U.SC today with an injured hand. Only a few looked like the crips balls he has thrown in other games.

[oman]

Don't let the bloods hear you say that.

[oman]

Don't let the bloods hear you say that.

[akCard]

.... and I attribute that partially to the coaches being too focused on turning him into a pocket passer and refusing to run him around a bit...and partially to Hogan's occasional odd monomania in only throwing the ball deep.

Not that I'm complaining it didn't work out for Washington but Jake Locker was on the verge of breaking out and becoming a star when Sarkisian messed around with Locker's game and tried to turn him into a pocket passer. It didn't stop Locker from getting inexplicably drafted in the first round but it was also enough to turn his senior season into one that was less successful than had been hoped for.

It's beginning to look to me like Shaw is trying to shoehorn Hogan into a system which, while admittedly very successful for the Stanford football program these last 5 years or so, is perhaps not the best fit for Hogan's skillset. Perhaps the coaches should consider taking advantage of the things Hogan does really well and build a more effective offense around that.

I also see Fullmetal's point: it almost looks like Hogan is playing to not lose his starting job. If he's not hurt, then something is keeping him from being the more-dynamic player we all saw and loved last year. If it's fear about losing the starting quarterback, then Hogan is worrying too much because Shaw has clearly demonstrated that he stubbornly sticks with his plan (or designated starter) come hell or high water. If it's fear about actually losing a game, well, that ship has sailed.

[akCard]

.... and I attribute that partially to the coaches being too focused on turning him into a pocket passer and refusing to run him around a bit...and partially to Hogan's occasional odd monomania in only throwing the ball deep.

Not that I'm complaining it didn't work out for Washington but Jake Locker was on the verge of breaking out and becoming a star when Sarkisian messed around with Locker's game and tried to turn him into a pocket passer. It didn't stop Locker from getting inexplicably drafted in the first round but it was also enough to turn his senior season into one that was less successful than had been hoped for.

It's beginning to look to me like Shaw is trying to shoehorn Hogan into a system which, while admittedly very successful for the Stanford football program these last 5 years or so, is perhaps not the best fit for Hogan's skillset. Perhaps the coaches should consider taking advantage of the things Hogan does really well and build a more effective offense around that.

I also see Fullmetal's point: it almost looks like Hogan is playing to not lose his starting job. If he's not hurt, then something is keeping him from being the more-dynamic player we all saw and loved last year. If it's fear about losing the starting quarterback, then Hogan is worrying too much because Shaw has clearly demonstrated that he stubbornly sticks with his plan (or designated starter) come hell or high water. If it's fear about actually losing a game, well, that ship has sailed.

[Rando]

Coming into the game Hogan's stats were better than last year with the only exception being his completion ratio. We won the game. Hogan didn't really get into rhythm but I wouldn't even consider benching him. Hogan has accomplished so much as a starter for us that he should be locked in as the starter until he decides to turn pro. That's just my theory. One bad game doesn't define a player. I actually believe 2013 Hogan > 2012 Hogan and I didn't see anyone trying to get 2012 Hogan benched. It's not like we're dealing with Nunes. Hogan has amazing talent. Part of the problem is we don't have the TE's, not to mention play calling.

[Rando]

Coming into the game Hogan's stats were better than last year with the only exception being his completion ratio. We won the game. Hogan didn't really get into rhythm but I wouldn't even consider benching him. Hogan has accomplished so much as a starter for us that he should be locked in as the starter until he decides to turn pro. That's just my theory. One bad game doesn't define a player. I actually believe 2013 Hogan > 2012 Hogan and I didn't see anyone trying to get 2012 Hogan benched. It's not like we're dealing with Nunes. Hogan has amazing talent. Part of the problem is we don't have the TE's, not to mention play calling.

[gocard14]

Couple things:

1. In my mind there is no such thing as a bad win against a ranked team on the road.

2. Amazing defensive effort, the pass rush played great, but some of those 8 (9?) sacks were driven by great coverage. No true deep balls were given up, and their largest gains on deep in routes didn't come until late in the game. Murphy looked absolutely unstoppable.

3. That being said I agree that hogan looked terrible throwing the ball, and quite honestly has for 3 out of the last 4 games. I hope he picks it up against Oregon, but right now he's arguably the 9th best QB in the pac 12. 

4. We desperately need ben gardner and/or henry  anderson against Oregon, or we might be in trouble.

[gocard14]

Couple things:

1. In my mind there is no such thing as a bad win against a ranked team on the road.

2. Amazing defensive effort, the pass rush played great, but some of those 8 (9?) sacks were driven by great coverage. No true deep balls were given up, and their largest gains on deep in routes didn't come until late in the game. Murphy looked absolutely unstoppable.

3. That being said I agree that hogan looked terrible throwing the ball, and quite honestly has for 3 out of the last 4 games. I hope he picks it up against Oregon, but right now he's arguably the 9th best QB in the pac 12. 

4. We desperately need ben gardner and/or henry  anderson against Oregon, or we might be in trouble.

[shinsengumi]

I hope he picks it up against Oregon, but right now he's arguably the 9th best QB in the pac 12. 

I think we tend to be overly critical of our own coaches and players because of how closely we follow our own games. What do people think of Hundley's performance in his last two games? And what about Mike Riley's game management last night? I sure am not impressed by either.

[shinsengumi]

I hope he picks it up against Oregon, but right now he's arguably the 9th best QB in the pac 12. 

I think we tend to be overly critical of our own coaches and players because of how closely we follow our own games. What do people think of Hundley's performance in his last two games? And what about Mike Riley's game management last night? I sure am not impressed by either.

[Kathy]

I'm happy with Hundley's last two games and Riley's game management last night (or rather, this morning since I wasn't watching in the Pacific time zone). What's not to love? No opponent criticism from this corner.  :)

[Kathy]

I'm happy with Hundley's last two games and Riley's game management last night (or rather, this morning since I wasn't watching in the Pacific time zone). What's not to love? No opponent criticism from this corner.  :)

[Roberton3]

My biggest complaint about the offensive playcalling is that there were too many empty-backfield plays.  I'm fine with an empty backfield on 3rd and 20.  But a team with a good running game shouldn't have an empty backfield on 3rd and 4 (or any similar situation).  Having a credible threat to run makes passing much easier, and you give that up when you go to an empty backfield.

Of course, if a significant fraction of those empty-backfield plays were designed runs for Hogan, then that would also solve this problem.  But I don't remember seeing any of those, either.

[Roberton3]

My biggest complaint about the offensive playcalling is that there were too many empty-backfield plays.  I'm fine with an empty backfield on 3rd and 20.  But a team with a good running game shouldn't have an empty backfield on 3rd and 4 (or any similar situation).  Having a credible threat to run makes passing much easier, and you give that up when you go to an empty backfield.

Of course, if a significant fraction of those empty-backfield plays were designed runs for Hogan, then that would also solve this problem.  But I don't remember seeing any of those, either.

[Oasis]

Hogan does not have the receivers he had a year ago.  The star TEs (Ertz,, Toilolo) are gone.  Cajuste is hurt.  Fortunately a now-healthy Montgomery is fulfilling our earlier hopes for him.  Other receivers no doubt will step up but people don't become Ertz overnight.  Yet somehow Hogan took us 71 yards in less than a minute to go up 7-3 at halftime.

I too noticed the empty backfield on 3rd and 4 or 5 when we might've been better off having an RB in the backfield to make OSU respect the run.  But I liked the use of the end around with Young and Montgomery. 

Shaw continues to want to give Dallas Lloyd playing time when the outcome is in doubt.  That's okay and I'm sure Lloyd is a very capable player but last night it really backfired on us.  If we had scored early it likely would've given us momentum that we didn't get until the improbable drive to close the half.  I can still see the ball spinning on the ground.  Changing QBs during a drive is a dangerous thing. 

Overall I am not complaining (except that the game kept me up until 11:00 biting what's left of my fingernails and I had to get up at 4:00 to see my spouse off on a business trip).  OSU and their fans were at an emotional fever pitch and our guys went in there and won when the outcome could've been another Utah.  To me, a win in those circumstances is impressive.  Shaw still gets the Meade award for "did well enough to win."  Next week we may need him to win the Lee award for "won when nobody thought you could possibly do it."

Last night Murphy was the most dominant D player I've seen in a long time.  He should be everybody's player of the week. How could he not be an All-American?

Looking ahead, I don't know how anybody can possibly cope with the Mongol Horde from up north and their hundred ways to kill you, including wicked trick plays.  But I couldn't see how we could do it last year either and somehow we did.  Maybe with the bye we can heal up, get ready and pull off a win like Marse Robert's.

[Oasis]

Hogan does not have the receivers he had a year ago.  The star TEs (Ertz,, Toilolo) are gone.  Cajuste is hurt.  Fortunately a now-healthy Montgomery is fulfilling our earlier hopes for him.  Other receivers no doubt will step up but people don't become Ertz overnight.  Yet somehow Hogan took us 71 yards in less than a minute to go up 7-3 at halftime.

I too noticed the empty backfield on 3rd and 4 or 5 when we might've been better off having an RB in the backfield to make OSU respect the run.  But I liked the use of the end around with Young and Montgomery. 

Shaw continues to want to give Dallas Lloyd playing time when the outcome is in doubt.  That's okay and I'm sure Lloyd is a very capable player but last night it really backfired on us.  If we had scored early it likely would've given us momentum that we didn't get until the improbable drive to close the half.  I can still see the ball spinning on the ground.  Changing QBs during a drive is a dangerous thing. 

Overall I am not complaining (except that the game kept me up until 11:00 biting what's left of my fingernails and I had to get up at 4:00 to see my spouse off on a business trip).  OSU and their fans were at an emotional fever pitch and our guys went in there and won when the outcome could've been another Utah.  To me, a win in those circumstances is impressive.  Shaw still gets the Meade award for "did well enough to win."  Next week we may need him to win the Lee award for "won when nobody thought you could possibly do it."

Last night Murphy was the most dominant D player I've seen in a long time.  He should be everybody's player of the week. How could he not be an All-American?

Looking ahead, I don't know how anybody can possibly cope with the Mongol Horde from up north and their hundred ways to kill you, including wicked trick plays.  But I couldn't see how we could do it last year either and somehow we did.  Maybe with the bye we can heal up, get ready and pull off a win like Marse Robert's.

[ChicagoCard]

[font=georgia]Cajuste is hurt.

Cajuste really has turned into a key player on the offense. So glad his injury was minor.

[font=georgia]But I liked the use of the end around with Young and Montgomery.

I'm not much for questioning playcalling but I'd like to see the threat of Montgomery, Young and Sanders at the line of scrimmage incorporated into the offense more... to complement the inside run game.

[font=georgia]I can still see the ball spinning on the ground. Changing QBs during a drive is a dangerous thing.

This was the second turnover this season with the Lloyd package.

[font=georgia]Last night Murphy was the most dominant D player I've seen in a long time.

Anybody hear Herbstreit's comment that the UCLA linebackers were definitely the best unit in the conference? Surprised at that comment.

Another thing: How much does Stanford miss Pep Hamilton?

[ChicagoCard]

[font=georgia]Cajuste is hurt.

Cajuste really has turned into a key player on the offense. So glad his injury was minor.

[font=georgia]But I liked the use of the end around with Young and Montgomery.

I'm not much for questioning playcalling but I'd like to see the threat of Montgomery, Young and Sanders at the line of scrimmage incorporated into the offense more... to complement the inside run game.

[font=georgia]I can still see the ball spinning on the ground. Changing QBs during a drive is a dangerous thing.

This was the second turnover this season with the Lloyd package.

[font=georgia]Last night Murphy was the most dominant D player I've seen in a long time.

Anybody hear Herbstreit's comment that the UCLA linebackers were definitely the best unit in the conference? Surprised at that comment.

Another thing: How much does Stanford miss Pep Hamilton?