[StanFan88]

If we hang onto those two missed interceptions and a couple of first down drops...how's our coaching look then?

Defense played well enough to win, holding MSU to 24 points.  Not their finest game, but certainly good enough.  Net was 17 points with the pick six.

Offense scored 3 points in the final 3 quarters.  That is where the blame lies for this loss.

[StanFan88]

If we hang onto those two missed interceptions and a couple of first down drops...how's our coaching look then?

Defense played well enough to win, holding MSU to 24 points.  Not their finest game, but certainly good enough.  Net was 17 points with the pick six.

Offense scored 3 points in the final 3 quarters.  That is where the blame lies for this loss.

[BostonCard]

[quote author=CowboyIndian link=topic=9313.msg80519#msg80519 date=1388714966]
If we hang onto those two missed interceptions and a couple of first down drops...how's our coaching look then?

Defense played well enough to win, holding MSU to 24 points.  Not their finest game, but certainly good enough.  Net was 17 points with the pick six.

Offense scored 3 points in the final 3 quarters.  That is where the blame lies for this loss.
[/quote]
On the other hand, we had a 10 point lead (twice), and the defense couldn't hang on. Not being able to stop MSU on that last possession before the half really hurt; you would have really liked our chances in the second half going in with a 17-7 advantage, even if the offense were totally incapable of scoring again. This is a team game, and both the offense and defense can shoulder some of the blame.  Even the special teams, which did admirably in punts (save one) and kickoffs (no returns), didn't break any big returns.  And if there was one game where a big return would have helped...

BC

[BostonCard]

[quote author=CowboyIndian link=topic=9313.msg80519#msg80519 date=1388714966]
If we hang onto those two missed interceptions and a couple of first down drops...how's our coaching look then?

Defense played well enough to win, holding MSU to 24 points.  Not their finest game, but certainly good enough.  Net was 17 points with the pick six.

Offense scored 3 points in the final 3 quarters.  That is where the blame lies for this loss.
[/quote]
On the other hand, we had a 10 point lead (twice), and the defense couldn't hang on. Not being able to stop MSU on that last possession before the half really hurt; you would have really liked our chances in the second half going in with a 17-7 advantage, even if the offense were totally incapable of scoring again. This is a team game, and both the offense and defense can shoulder some of the blame.  Even the special teams, which did admirably in punts (save one) and kickoffs (no returns), didn't break any big returns.  And if there was one game where a big return would have helped...

BC

[BostonCard]

[quote author=CowboyIndian link=topic=9313.msg80519#msg80519 date=1388714966]
If we hang onto those two missed interceptions and a couple of first down drops...how's our coaching look then?

Defense played well enough to win, holding MSU to 24 points.  Not their finest game, but certainly good enough.  Net was 17 points with the pick six.

Offense scored 3 points in the final 3 quarters.  That is where the blame lies for this loss.
[/quote]
On the other hand, we had a 10 point lead (twice), and the defense couldn't hang on. Not being able to stop MSU on that last possession before the half really hurt; you would have really liked our chances in the second half going in with a 17-7 advantage, even if the offense were totally incapable of scoring again. This is a team game, and both the offense and defense can shoulder some of the blame.  Even the special teams, which did admirably in punts (save one) and kickoffs (no returns), didn't break any big returns.  And if there was one game where a big return would have helped...

BC

[BostonCard]

[quote author=CowboyIndian link=topic=9313.msg80519#msg80519 date=1388714966]
If we hang onto those two missed interceptions and a couple of first down drops...how's our coaching look then?

Defense played well enough to win, holding MSU to 24 points.  Not their finest game, but certainly good enough.  Net was 17 points with the pick six.

Offense scored 3 points in the final 3 quarters.  That is where the blame lies for this loss.
[/quote]
On the other hand, we had a 10 point lead (twice), and the defense couldn't hang on. Not being able to stop MSU on that last possession before the half really hurt; you would have really liked our chances in the second half going in with a 17-7 advantage, even if the offense were totally incapable of scoring again. This is a team game, and both the offense and defense can shoulder some of the blame.  Even the special teams, which did admirably in punts (save one) and kickoffs (no returns), didn't break any big returns.  And if there was one game where a big return would have helped...

BC

[washingtonismoney]

I think this article backs up BostonCard's points pretty well: http://www.ruleoftree.com/2014/1/2/52677...-all-blame

Allowing 4 of 8 conversions on 3rd and 8 or longer is pretty bad, in my opinion.

[washingtonismoney]

I think this article backs up BostonCard's points pretty well: http://www.ruleoftree.com/2014/1/2/52677...-all-blame

Allowing 4 of 8 conversions on 3rd and 8 or longer is pretty bad, in my opinion.

[washingtonismoney]

I think this article backs up BostonCard's points pretty well: http://www.ruleoftree.com/2014/1/2/52677...-all-blame

Allowing 4 of 8 conversions on 3rd and 8 or longer is pretty bad, in my opinion.

[washingtonismoney]

I think this article backs up BostonCard's points pretty well: http://www.ruleoftree.com/2014/1/2/52677...-all-blame

Allowing 4 of 8 conversions on 3rd and 8 or longer is pretty bad, in my opinion.

[BostonCard]

One other point to add on the return game... and it is a very small one, but:

Why didn't Ty Montgomery attempt to return that last kick before the end of the first half?  Michigan State scored with under 30 seconds to go in the half.  Obviously, it was exceedingly unlikely we were going to do anything, and if I recall, that kickoff was a few yards into the end zone.  Usually when deciding whether to attempt a return starting in your end zone, the decision is driven by whether your average return is likely to end up ahead or behind the 25 yard line, since that is where you get the ball if you take a touchback, and starting a few yards deep in your end zone, chances are you struggle to get to the 20, let alone the 25.  But in this case, it doesn't matter whether we start at the 25, the 20, or even the 5 yard line, since the next play is a knee... unless, Montgomery breaks a big return and scores or puts us in field goal range.  Yeah, your chances are maybe 1 in 50, but it seems the risk is low (there is the possibility of a fumble or injury, both of which would be really bad), and the potential reward (7 points) is large.

BC

[BostonCard]

One other point to add on the return game... and it is a very small one, but:

Why didn't Ty Montgomery attempt to return that last kick before the end of the first half?  Michigan State scored with under 30 seconds to go in the half.  Obviously, it was exceedingly unlikely we were going to do anything, and if I recall, that kickoff was a few yards into the end zone.  Usually when deciding whether to attempt a return starting in your end zone, the decision is driven by whether your average return is likely to end up ahead or behind the 25 yard line, since that is where you get the ball if you take a touchback, and starting a few yards deep in your end zone, chances are you struggle to get to the 20, let alone the 25.  But in this case, it doesn't matter whether we start at the 25, the 20, or even the 5 yard line, since the next play is a knee... unless, Montgomery breaks a big return and scores or puts us in field goal range.  Yeah, your chances are maybe 1 in 50, but it seems the risk is low (there is the possibility of a fumble or injury, both of which would be really bad), and the potential reward (7 points) is large.

BC

[BostonCard]

One other point to add on the return game... and it is a very small one, but:

Why didn't Ty Montgomery attempt to return that last kick before the end of the first half?  Michigan State scored with under 30 seconds to go in the half.  Obviously, it was exceedingly unlikely we were going to do anything, and if I recall, that kickoff was a few yards into the end zone.  Usually when deciding whether to attempt a return starting in your end zone, the decision is driven by whether your average return is likely to end up ahead or behind the 25 yard line, since that is where you get the ball if you take a touchback, and starting a few yards deep in your end zone, chances are you struggle to get to the 20, let alone the 25.  But in this case, it doesn't matter whether we start at the 25, the 20, or even the 5 yard line, since the next play is a knee... unless, Montgomery breaks a big return and scores or puts us in field goal range.  Yeah, your chances are maybe 1 in 50, but it seems the risk is low (there is the possibility of a fumble or injury, both of which would be really bad), and the potential reward (7 points) is large.

BC

[BostonCard]

One other point to add on the return game... and it is a very small one, but:

Why didn't Ty Montgomery attempt to return that last kick before the end of the first half?  Michigan State scored with under 30 seconds to go in the half.  Obviously, it was exceedingly unlikely we were going to do anything, and if I recall, that kickoff was a few yards into the end zone.  Usually when deciding whether to attempt a return starting in your end zone, the decision is driven by whether your average return is likely to end up ahead or behind the 25 yard line, since that is where you get the ball if you take a touchback, and starting a few yards deep in your end zone, chances are you struggle to get to the 20, let alone the 25.  But in this case, it doesn't matter whether we start at the 25, the 20, or even the 5 yard line, since the next play is a knee... unless, Montgomery breaks a big return and scores or puts us in field goal range.  Yeah, your chances are maybe 1 in 50, but it seems the risk is low (there is the possibility of a fumble or injury, both of which would be really bad), and the potential reward (7 points) is large.

BC

[Papa John]

Hello, I'm new to this board (but Stanford AB/BS class of '85). I just wanted to say that when I saw the subject heading for this thread, I thought it was referring to the men's basketball team.

[Papa John]

Hello, I'm new to this board (but Stanford AB/BS class of '85). I just wanted to say that when I saw the subject heading for this thread, I thought it was referring to the men's basketball team.

[Papa John]

Hello, I'm new to this board (but Stanford AB/BS class of '85). I just wanted to say that when I saw the subject heading for this thread, I thought it was referring to the men's basketball team.

[Papa John]

Hello, I'm new to this board (but Stanford AB/BS class of '85). I just wanted to say that when I saw the subject heading for this thread, I thought it was referring to the men's basketball team.

[StanFan88]

Hello, I'm new to this board (but Stanford AB/BS class of '85). I just wanted to say that when I saw the subject heading for this thread, I thought it was referring to the men's basketball team.

I think that headline would be "20-win talent, 10-win coaching"

[StanFan88]

Hello, I'm new to this board (but Stanford AB/BS class of '85). I just wanted to say that when I saw the subject heading for this thread, I thought it was referring to the men's basketball team.

I think that headline would be "20-win talent, 10-win coaching"

[StanFan88]

Hello, I'm new to this board (but Stanford AB/BS class of '85). I just wanted to say that when I saw the subject heading for this thread, I thought it was referring to the men's basketball team.

I think that headline would be "20-win talent, 10-win coaching"

[StanFan88]

Hello, I'm new to this board (but Stanford AB/BS class of '85). I just wanted to say that when I saw the subject heading for this thread, I thought it was referring to the men's basketball team.

I think that headline would be "20-win talent, 10-win coaching"

[BostonCard]

I think we'll win close to 20 games (I'll hazard 18 or 19)... we have 25 win talent though.

BC

[BostonCard]

I think we'll win close to 20 games (I'll hazard 18 or 19)... we have 25 win talent though.

BC

[BostonCard]

I think we'll win close to 20 games (I'll hazard 18 or 19)... we have 25 win talent though.

BC

[BostonCard]

I think we'll win close to 20 games (I'll hazard 18 or 19)... we have 25 win talent though.

BC

[Papa John]

Well, after last night's game, I knew the men's BB team had four losses, so that's what threw me for a loop.

[Papa John]

Well, after last night's game, I knew the men's BB team had four losses, so that's what threw me for a loop.

[Papa John]

Well, after last night's game, I knew the men's BB team had four losses, so that's what threw me for a loop.

[Papa John]

Well, after last night's game, I knew the men's BB team had four losses, so that's what threw me for a loop.

[Scooter_Stepford]

I think we'll win close to 20 games (I'll hazard 18 or 19)... we have 25 win talent though.

BC

I know this is ostensibly a football thread, but please elaborate on this, particularly the 25 win talent portion...

[Scooter_Stepford]

I think we'll win close to 20 games (I'll hazard 18 or 19)... we have 25 win talent though.

BC

I know this is ostensibly a football thread, but please elaborate on this, particularly the 25 win talent portion...

[Scooter_Stepford]

I think we'll win close to 20 games (I'll hazard 18 or 19)... we have 25 win talent though.

BC

I know this is ostensibly a football thread, but please elaborate on this, particularly the 25 win talent portion...

[Scooter_Stepford]

I think we'll win close to 20 games (I'll hazard 18 or 19)... we have 25 win talent though.

BC

I know this is ostensibly a football thread, but please elaborate on this, particularly the 25 win talent portion...

[BostonCard]

Admittedly I don't follow basketball as closely as football, but we are a senior laden team with a potential pro prospect in Powell.  Usually, that is a combination needed to be a top-25 team.  We essentially lost no one from last year's team, which went to the NIT.  We should be better.  While the Pac-12 is better than it was last year, there is no reason we shouldn't have gone 11-1 in the non-conference season and, say 12-6 in conference, with a couple of wins in the Pac-12 tournament/NCAA tournament.

As much as I would love to see Dawkins succeed, and I like his recruiting, I'm am becoming increasingly convinced that his failures to develop players and to have them playing fundamentally sound, team basketball have left us well below our ceiling.  I do think we can do better, and, I have a feeling that Muir will too (assuming we once again fail to get to the NCAA tourney).

BC

[BostonCard]

Admittedly I don't follow basketball as closely as football, but we are a senior laden team with a potential pro prospect in Powell.  Usually, that is a combination needed to be a top-25 team.  We essentially lost no one from last year's team, which went to the NIT.  We should be better.  While the Pac-12 is better than it was last year, there is no reason we shouldn't have gone 11-1 in the non-conference season and, say 12-6 in conference, with a couple of wins in the Pac-12 tournament/NCAA tournament.

As much as I would love to see Dawkins succeed, and I like his recruiting, I'm am becoming increasingly convinced that his failures to develop players and to have them playing fundamentally sound, team basketball have left us well below our ceiling.  I do think we can do better, and, I have a feeling that Muir will too (assuming we once again fail to get to the NCAA tourney).

BC

[BostonCard]

Admittedly I don't follow basketball as closely as football, but we are a senior laden team with a potential pro prospect in Powell.  Usually, that is a combination needed to be a top-25 team.  We essentially lost no one from last year's team, which went to the NIT.  We should be better.  While the Pac-12 is better than it was last year, there is no reason we shouldn't have gone 11-1 in the non-conference season and, say 12-6 in conference, with a couple of wins in the Pac-12 tournament/NCAA tournament.

As much as I would love to see Dawkins succeed, and I like his recruiting, I'm am becoming increasingly convinced that his failures to develop players and to have them playing fundamentally sound, team basketball have left us well below our ceiling.  I do think we can do better, and, I have a feeling that Muir will too (assuming we once again fail to get to the NCAA tourney).

BC

[BostonCard]

Admittedly I don't follow basketball as closely as football, but we are a senior laden team with a potential pro prospect in Powell.  Usually, that is a combination needed to be a top-25 team.  We essentially lost no one from last year's team, which went to the NIT.  We should be better.  While the Pac-12 is better than it was last year, there is no reason we shouldn't have gone 11-1 in the non-conference season and, say 12-6 in conference, with a couple of wins in the Pac-12 tournament/NCAA tournament.

As much as I would love to see Dawkins succeed, and I like his recruiting, I'm am becoming increasingly convinced that his failures to develop players and to have them playing fundamentally sound, team basketball have left us well below our ceiling.  I do think we can do better, and, I have a feeling that Muir will too (assuming we once again fail to get to the NCAA tourney).

BC

[washingtonismoney]

The funniest thing about this thread, by the way, is that 10-4 coaching is actually pretty darn good.

[washingtonismoney]

The funniest thing about this thread, by the way, is that 10-4 coaching is actually pretty darn good.