02-23-2014, 02:40 PM
Really excellent news and Jason may make the playoffs to boot.Â
Jason Collins to the rescue of Brook Lopez, maybe
02-23-2014, 04:36 PM
Jason back in uniform for the playoff push and another barrier is broken down-a good day. However, I wouldn't want to be in Joakin Noah's shoes on March 3rd when the Bulls play the Nets in NY.
Jason back in uniform for the playoff push and another barrier is broken down-a good day. However, I wouldn't want to be in Joakin Noah's shoes on March 3rd when the Bulls play the Nets in NY.
02-23-2014, 08:27 PM
Collins takes the floor as a Net for the first time: http://deadspin.com/heres-jason-collins-...1529410118
Collins takes the floor as a Net for the first time: http://deadspin.com/heres-jason-collins-...1529410118
02-24-2014, 12:20 AM
Nice to hear the crowd's reaction. Not exactly a standing ovation, but still warm.
02-24-2014, 12:28 AM
(02-21-2014, 12:47 PM)garvin link Wrote:The Brooklyn Nets seem to have a Stanford Twin fetish. They're giving Jason Collins a tryout to help with the hole in their lineup created by Brook Lopez's injury.
http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2014/02/20/r...n-collins/
Jackie Robinson
Jason Collins
BC
(02-21-2014, 12:47 PM)garvin link Wrote:The Brooklyn Nets seem to have a Stanford Twin fetish. They're giving Jason Collins a tryout to help with the hole in their lineup created by Brook Lopez's injury.
http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2014/02/20/r...n-collins/
Jackie Robinson
Jason Collins
BC
02-24-2014, 09:22 AM
Wait. Is a 10-day contract significant?
It might be nothing more than a publicity stunt.
It might be nothing more than a publicity stunt.
02-24-2014, 09:50 AM
(02-24-2014, 09:22 AM)Yvonne link Wrote:Wait. Is a 10-day contract significant?
It might be nothing more than a publicity stunt.
If JC had been signed at the beginning of the season by a team that didn't really have a role for him, or if he were signed by a team now that is clearly out of playoff contention, I'd be wondering the same thing. But the Nets clearly care about winning this year, and clearly needed frontline depth, which JC provides.
(02-24-2014, 09:22 AM)Yvonne link Wrote:Wait. Is a 10-day contract significant?
It might be nothing more than a publicity stunt.
If JC had been signed at the beginning of the season by a team that didn't really have a role for him, or if he were signed by a team now that is clearly out of playoff contention, I'd be wondering the same thing. But the Nets clearly care about winning this year, and clearly needed frontline depth, which JC provides.
02-24-2014, 10:18 AM
My guess is that Collins coming out of the closet during the off-season led to a delay in him being signed, but not because of homophobia. If he'd been signed at the start of the season, there would have been pressure to play him in games, even though he's essentially a twelfth man at this stage of his career. It would have been a bit awkward if he made a roster and then just rode the pine all season.
Collins was finally signed when the Nets needed a big man, and were desperate enough to give non-garbage-time minutes to him. Sounds like he played pretty well last night, which is fantastic.
Collins was finally signed when the Nets needed a big man, and were desperate enough to give non-garbage-time minutes to him. Sounds like he played pretty well last night, which is fantastic.
My guess is that Collins coming out of the closet during the off-season led to a delay in him being signed, but not because of homophobia. If he'd been signed at the start of the season, there would have been pressure to play him in games, even though he's essentially a twelfth man at this stage of his career. It would have been a bit awkward if he made a roster and then just rode the pine all season.
Collins was finally signed when the Nets needed a big man, and were desperate enough to give non-garbage-time minutes to him. Sounds like he played pretty well last night, which is fantastic.
Collins was finally signed when the Nets needed a big man, and were desperate enough to give non-garbage-time minutes to him. Sounds like he played pretty well last night, which is fantastic.
02-24-2014, 02:01 PM
I look forward to the day where there is no reporting on Jason Collins for anything other than what he does on the hoops court. It seems to me the media is driving this 'story' now (and with Sam on NFL side, to a lesser extent). The good news is I actually heard ESPN talking heads this morning raise this very point (i.e., "when should the reporting on Jason Collins as first openly homosexual player in pro sports stop"). And 2 of them said "by now." Of course, they said "should" and not "would."
Hey, "if you can play, you can play."Â That's it.
Hey, "if you can play, you can play."Â That's it.
I look forward to the day where there is no reporting on Jason Collins for anything other than what he does on the hoops court. It seems to me the media is driving this 'story' now (and with Sam on NFL side, to a lesser extent). The good news is I actually heard ESPN talking heads this morning raise this very point (i.e., "when should the reporting on Jason Collins as first openly homosexual player in pro sports stop"). And 2 of them said "by now." Of course, they said "should" and not "would."
Hey, "if you can play, you can play."Â That's it.
Hey, "if you can play, you can play."Â That's it.
02-24-2014, 02:22 PM
The number of people who insist that Collins and/or Sam is not a terribly big deal, that they're really looking forward to the day that there are no stories about it, and that the media is driving the story is amusing to me, but in one of those darkly ironic ways.
Fact is it wasn't so long ago that a significant part of a presidential campaign's strategy was based more-or-less explicitly on getting anti-gay marriage referenda on state ballots. It hasn't been so long ago that a gay dude was beaten to death in New York.
Those are anecdotes. It's also true that gay people in homophobic towns have lower life expectancies (see: http://www.mailman.columbia.edu/news/lgb...-die-early) and that many gay people are not out in many facets of their lives (see: http://www.livescience.com/14681-gay-les...ivity.html).
Collins and Sam coming out is really only a small facet of a good future, but it's positive and noteworthy nonetheless. People who are fortunate tend to underestimate the difficulty of solving entrenched cultural problems, which I think fuels this type of naivete.
Fact is it wasn't so long ago that a significant part of a presidential campaign's strategy was based more-or-less explicitly on getting anti-gay marriage referenda on state ballots. It hasn't been so long ago that a gay dude was beaten to death in New York.
Those are anecdotes. It's also true that gay people in homophobic towns have lower life expectancies (see: http://www.mailman.columbia.edu/news/lgb...-die-early) and that many gay people are not out in many facets of their lives (see: http://www.livescience.com/14681-gay-les...ivity.html).
Collins and Sam coming out is really only a small facet of a good future, but it's positive and noteworthy nonetheless. People who are fortunate tend to underestimate the difficulty of solving entrenched cultural problems, which I think fuels this type of naivete.
The number of people who insist that Collins and/or Sam is not a terribly big deal, that they're really looking forward to the day that there are no stories about it, and that the media is driving the story is amusing to me, but in one of those darkly ironic ways.
Fact is it wasn't so long ago that a significant part of a presidential campaign's strategy was based more-or-less explicitly on getting anti-gay marriage referenda on state ballots. It hasn't been so long ago that a gay dude was beaten to death in New York.
Those are anecdotes. It's also true that gay people in homophobic towns have lower life expectancies (see: http://www.mailman.columbia.edu/news/lgb...-die-early) and that many gay people are not out in many facets of their lives (see: http://www.livescience.com/14681-gay-les...ivity.html).
Collins and Sam coming out is really only a small facet of a good future, but it's positive and noteworthy nonetheless. People who are fortunate tend to underestimate the difficulty of solving entrenched cultural problems, which I think fuels this type of naivete.
Fact is it wasn't so long ago that a significant part of a presidential campaign's strategy was based more-or-less explicitly on getting anti-gay marriage referenda on state ballots. It hasn't been so long ago that a gay dude was beaten to death in New York.
Those are anecdotes. It's also true that gay people in homophobic towns have lower life expectancies (see: http://www.mailman.columbia.edu/news/lgb...-die-early) and that many gay people are not out in many facets of their lives (see: http://www.livescience.com/14681-gay-les...ivity.html).
Collins and Sam coming out is really only a small facet of a good future, but it's positive and noteworthy nonetheless. People who are fortunate tend to underestimate the difficulty of solving entrenched cultural problems, which I think fuels this type of naivete.
02-24-2014, 02:59 PM
Thank you WIM. I completely agree. High profile gay people coming out will cease to be a big deal when enough have done so without repercussions that it becomes just another personal characteristic of people, like, say hair color, and not a source of hatred and bigotry. I noted in another thread that while I was at Stanford, which I consider to be fairly open minded and very close to one of the most gay friendly cities on the planet, the "gay liberation" statue was a victim of acts of vandalism because of what it portrayed. That was less than 20 years ago.
Attitudes toward LGBTQ are changing very quickly, which is a good thing. A large part of it is because gays and lesbians have come out of the closet, both privately (to friends and family) and publicly among high profile people in the entertainment, media, corporate America, and, finally, athletics. The biggest predictor of whether someone has tolerant attitudes towards gays is whether they know someone who is openly gay. And they are not going to know someone who is openly gay if all the gay people they know are in the closet. And gay people are more likely to be open and honest about their sexuality if they see others behaving likewise.
Whether you like it or not, what Collins and Sam did were courageous acts. Since no major sports athlete had come out as gay before, they had no idea what to expect. Thankfully, it appears they are going to be just fine. That will open the doors for the next guys to come out of the closet publicly, and those announcements will be met with much less publicity. Eventually, you will get your wish, and the nth major athlete to come out of the closet will be met with a big shrug because it will no longer be extraordinary. That is, what everyone (you and me and the LGBTQ community) wants, and it will happen. But it can only happen because guys like Collins and Sam did what they did.
BC
Attitudes toward LGBTQ are changing very quickly, which is a good thing. A large part of it is because gays and lesbians have come out of the closet, both privately (to friends and family) and publicly among high profile people in the entertainment, media, corporate America, and, finally, athletics. The biggest predictor of whether someone has tolerant attitudes towards gays is whether they know someone who is openly gay. And they are not going to know someone who is openly gay if all the gay people they know are in the closet. And gay people are more likely to be open and honest about their sexuality if they see others behaving likewise.
Whether you like it or not, what Collins and Sam did were courageous acts. Since no major sports athlete had come out as gay before, they had no idea what to expect. Thankfully, it appears they are going to be just fine. That will open the doors for the next guys to come out of the closet publicly, and those announcements will be met with much less publicity. Eventually, you will get your wish, and the nth major athlete to come out of the closet will be met with a big shrug because it will no longer be extraordinary. That is, what everyone (you and me and the LGBTQ community) wants, and it will happen. But it can only happen because guys like Collins and Sam did what they did.
BC
Thank you WIM. I completely agree. High profile gay people coming out will cease to be a big deal when enough have done so without repercussions that it becomes just another personal characteristic of people, like, say hair color, and not a source of hatred and bigotry. I noted in another thread that while I was at Stanford, which I consider to be fairly open minded and very close to one of the most gay friendly cities on the planet, the "gay liberation" statue was a victim of acts of vandalism because of what it portrayed. That was less than 20 years ago.
Attitudes toward LGBTQ are changing very quickly, which is a good thing. A large part of it is because gays and lesbians have come out of the closet, both privately (to friends and family) and publicly among high profile people in the entertainment, media, corporate America, and, finally, athletics. The biggest predictor of whether someone has tolerant attitudes towards gays is whether they know someone who is openly gay. And they are not going to know someone who is openly gay if all the gay people they know are in the closet. And gay people are more likely to be open and honest about their sexuality if they see others behaving likewise.
Whether you like it or not, what Collins and Sam did were courageous acts. Since no major sports athlete had come out as gay before, they had no idea what to expect. Thankfully, it appears they are going to be just fine. That will open the doors for the next guys to come out of the closet publicly, and those announcements will be met with much less publicity. Eventually, you will get your wish, and the nth major athlete to come out of the closet will be met with a big shrug because it will no longer be extraordinary. That is, what everyone (you and me and the LGBTQ community) wants, and it will happen. But it can only happen because guys like Collins and Sam did what they did.
BC
Attitudes toward LGBTQ are changing very quickly, which is a good thing. A large part of it is because gays and lesbians have come out of the closet, both privately (to friends and family) and publicly among high profile people in the entertainment, media, corporate America, and, finally, athletics. The biggest predictor of whether someone has tolerant attitudes towards gays is whether they know someone who is openly gay. And they are not going to know someone who is openly gay if all the gay people they know are in the closet. And gay people are more likely to be open and honest about their sexuality if they see others behaving likewise.
Whether you like it or not, what Collins and Sam did were courageous acts. Since no major sports athlete had come out as gay before, they had no idea what to expect. Thankfully, it appears they are going to be just fine. That will open the doors for the next guys to come out of the closet publicly, and those announcements will be met with much less publicity. Eventually, you will get your wish, and the nth major athlete to come out of the closet will be met with a big shrug because it will no longer be extraordinary. That is, what everyone (you and me and the LGBTQ community) wants, and it will happen. But it can only happen because guys like Collins and Sam did what they did.
BC
02-24-2014, 03:50 PM
Quote:"Whether you like it or not, what Collins and Sam did were courageous acts."
Good grief.
Separately, and by your logic, whenever Jason Collins's name is mentioned, it must be accompanied by the phrase: "the first openly gay player in men's professional sports" . . . at least until there is a sufficient number of openly gay athletes in the professional sports landscape? Is that right? C'mon now . . .
And garvin, don't try to pin the Rose Bowl loss on the "h-word" snafu - as we all know, that falls squarely on the "offensive braintrust" on the Stanford side of the field.
Quote:"Whether you like it or not, what Collins and Sam did were courageous acts."
Good grief.
Separately, and by your logic, whenever Jason Collins's name is mentioned, it must be accompanied by the phrase: "the first openly gay player in men's professional sports" . . . at least until there is a sufficient number of openly gay athletes in the professional sports landscape? Is that right? C'mon now . . .
And garvin, don't try to pin the Rose Bowl loss on the "h-word" snafu - as we all know, that falls squarely on the "offensive braintrust" on the Stanford side of the field.
02-24-2014, 04:54 PM
courage |ËkÉrij, ËkÉ-rij|
noun
the ability to do something that frightens one: she called on all her courage to face the ordeal.
I think it is reasonable to conclude that divulging your sexual orientation in days where there is still discrimination against gays and lesbians, when nobody in your industry has done it and the industry is known for its macho culture, when you don't know whether the disclosure will affect your future job prospects, and you have no idea how your fans are going to react is reasonably frightening. Yes, it is less courageous than 15 years ago when a 21 year old student was tortured and murdered for being gay or 20 years ago when a statue depicting two men and two women with each other was defaced, but it still took a leap of faith by the two.
BC
noun
the ability to do something that frightens one: she called on all her courage to face the ordeal.
I think it is reasonable to conclude that divulging your sexual orientation in days where there is still discrimination against gays and lesbians, when nobody in your industry has done it and the industry is known for its macho culture, when you don't know whether the disclosure will affect your future job prospects, and you have no idea how your fans are going to react is reasonably frightening. Yes, it is less courageous than 15 years ago when a 21 year old student was tortured and murdered for being gay or 20 years ago when a statue depicting two men and two women with each other was defaced, but it still took a leap of faith by the two.
BC
courage |ËkÉrij, ËkÉ-rij|
noun
the ability to do something that frightens one: she called on all her courage to face the ordeal.
I think it is reasonable to conclude that divulging your sexual orientation in days where there is still discrimination against gays and lesbians, when nobody in your industry has done it and the industry is known for its macho culture, when you don't know whether the disclosure will affect your future job prospects, and you have no idea how your fans are going to react is reasonably frightening. Yes, it is less courageous than 15 years ago when a 21 year old student was tortured and murdered for being gay or 20 years ago when a statue depicting two men and two women with each other was defaced, but it still took a leap of faith by the two.
BC
noun
the ability to do something that frightens one: she called on all her courage to face the ordeal.
I think it is reasonable to conclude that divulging your sexual orientation in days where there is still discrimination against gays and lesbians, when nobody in your industry has done it and the industry is known for its macho culture, when you don't know whether the disclosure will affect your future job prospects, and you have no idea how your fans are going to react is reasonably frightening. Yes, it is less courageous than 15 years ago when a 21 year old student was tortured and murdered for being gay or 20 years ago when a statue depicting two men and two women with each other was defaced, but it still took a leap of faith by the two.
BC
02-24-2014, 05:15 PM
IIRC, the vandalism to the gay liberation statue was perpetrated by members of the football team. Is that right? A couple of my remaining brain cells seem to stubbornly cling to that as an example of the "anti-highlights" of Stanford athletics. Perhaps the vandals were from another sport, or perhaps these two brain cells have "gone rogue". The other lowlight was the kicker (?) who was arrested for public indecency somewhere in Palo Alto. Not sure.
"It's not what you don't know that gets you in trouble. It's what you think you know that just isn't so."
Mark Twain
IIRC, the vandalism to the gay liberation statue was perpetrated by members of the football team. Is that right? A couple of my remaining brain cells seem to stubbornly cling to that as an example of the "anti-highlights" of Stanford athletics. Perhaps the vandals were from another sport, or perhaps these two brain cells have "gone rogue". The other lowlight was the kicker (?) who was arrested for public indecency somewhere in Palo Alto. Not sure.
"It's not what you don't know that gets you in trouble. It's what you think you know that just isn't so."
Mark Twain
02-24-2014, 05:25 PM
That statue was vandalized several times, the first within a month of its installation. The attack that we remember was in 1994, when 7 students (all were athletes, including Mark Butterfield who would later become our starting quarterback) splattered with black paint and attacked with a park bench.
http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=22...97,2240137
BC
http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=22...97,2240137
BC
That statue was vandalized several times, the first within a month of its installation. The attack that we remember was in 1994, when 7 students (all were athletes, including Mark Butterfield who would later become our starting quarterback) splattered with black paint and attacked with a park bench.
http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=22...97,2240137
BC
http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=22...97,2240137
BC
02-25-2014, 11:58 AM
Quote:Yes, it is less courageous than 15 years ago when a 21 year old student was tortured and murdered for being gay or 20 years ago when a statue depicting two men and two women with each other was defaced, but it still took a leap of faith by the two.
I'm not aware of anyone questioning the above. And while your statement is true, I am wondering what your point is.
The question is when should the media let go of this "story" and let Jason Collins be just an NBA player? I think Jason thinks the answer to that question is "yesterday," and I happen to agree with him. You and others evidently do not.
Quote:Yes, it is less courageous than 15 years ago when a 21 year old student was tortured and murdered for being gay or 20 years ago when a statue depicting two men and two women with each other was defaced, but it still took a leap of faith by the two.
I'm not aware of anyone questioning the above. And while your statement is true, I am wondering what your point is.
The question is when should the media let go of this "story" and let Jason Collins be just an NBA player? I think Jason thinks the answer to that question is "yesterday," and I happen to agree with him. You and others evidently do not.
02-25-2014, 12:09 PM
I think the Arizona bill tends to support the notion that JC signing with the Nets is a pretty big deal indeed and warrants more than a fleeting news cycle.
I think the Arizona bill tends to support the notion that JC signing with the Nets is a pretty big deal indeed and warrants more than a fleeting news cycle.
02-25-2014, 01:31 PM
Oddly, many people don't seem to think it's just a small deal: http://espn.go.com/new-york/nba/story/_/...igh-demand
Collins is also behaving in the exact way you'd expect someone to, if they felt being gay were a minor footnote and unworthy of further attention:
Collins is also behaving in the exact way you'd expect someone to, if they felt being gay were a minor footnote and unworthy of further attention:
Quote:Collins had to wear No. 46 on Sunday because there wasn't enough time to get No. 98 ready for his first game.
He will wear No. 98 -- starting Wednesday night at Portland -- in honor of Matthew Shepard, a student at the University of Wyoming who was tortured, beaten and murdered in an antigay hate crime in 1998.
Oddly, many people don't seem to think it's just a small deal: http://espn.go.com/new-york/nba/story/_/...igh-demand
Collins is also behaving in the exact way you'd expect someone to, if they felt being gay were a minor footnote and unworthy of further attention:
Collins is also behaving in the exact way you'd expect someone to, if they felt being gay were a minor footnote and unworthy of further attention:
Quote:Collins had to wear No. 46 on Sunday because there wasn't enough time to get No. 98 ready for his first game.
He will wear No. 98 -- starting Wednesday night at Portland -- in honor of Matthew Shepard, a student at the University of Wyoming who was tortured, beaten and murdered in an antigay hate crime in 1998.
02-25-2014, 04:32 PM
(02-25-2014, 04:15 PM)garvin link Wrote:Actually, some journalists -- including ABC News -- have cast doubt on whether the murder of Matthew Shepard had to do with his sexual orientation.
http://abcnews.go.com/2020/story?id=2776...ePage=true
I wasn't aware of that. Nevertheless, that's not relevant to the point I'm making. If Collins were interested in just playing basketball and minding his business, picking a number associated with a gay martyr (and making it known that that's your reasoning) would be an odd thing to do. The perception is what's relevant here.
(02-25-2014, 04:15 PM)garvin link Wrote:Actually, some journalists -- including ABC News -- have cast doubt on whether the murder of Matthew Shepard had to do with his sexual orientation.
http://abcnews.go.com/2020/story?id=2776...ePage=true
I wasn't aware of that. Nevertheless, that's not relevant to the point I'm making. If Collins were interested in just playing basketball and minding his business, picking a number associated with a gay martyr (and making it known that that's your reasoning) would be an odd thing to do. The perception is what's relevant here.
02-25-2014, 05:06 PM
You've convinced me, WIM, that Jason's jersey number selection undermines my contention that Jason just wants to play ball and leave the "I'm gay" statement to other forums. I'm not a fan of this approach, because ultimately I think it detracts from the "if you can play, you can play" message, which is the long-term/enduring goal. And this is my opinion regardless of the veracity of the "Shepard was killed because he was gay" CW, as set forth in garvin's link, which, to be honest, at least questions the legitimacy (for lack of a better term) of Jason's jersey number selection.
But perhaps Jason knows he is a short-termer and has decided to play the "I'm gay and I'm proud" card at full volume while he can. And that certainly is his prerogative.Â
But perhaps Jason knows he is a short-termer and has decided to play the "I'm gay and I'm proud" card at full volume while he can. And that certainly is his prerogative.Â
You've convinced me, WIM, that Jason's jersey number selection undermines my contention that Jason just wants to play ball and leave the "I'm gay" statement to other forums. I'm not a fan of this approach, because ultimately I think it detracts from the "if you can play, you can play" message, which is the long-term/enduring goal. And this is my opinion regardless of the veracity of the "Shepard was killed because he was gay" CW, as set forth in garvin's link, which, to be honest, at least questions the legitimacy (for lack of a better term) of Jason's jersey number selection.
But perhaps Jason knows he is a short-termer and has decided to play the "I'm gay and I'm proud" card at full volume while he can. And that certainly is his prerogative.Â
But perhaps Jason knows he is a short-termer and has decided to play the "I'm gay and I'm proud" card at full volume while he can. And that certainly is his prerogative.Â
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