[chimera]

[quote author=chimera link=topic=14628.msg157124#msg157124 date=1456336941]
I guess I might as well chime in as a long time women's basketball fan who follows the men's team a bit also.  IMO there is zero reason to compare anything that Dawkins has done with what Tara has done.  Women have a bad end of game against ASU does not equal the men struggling at the end of games multiple times a year in recent years.  The past two seasons for WBB have been down years compared to the strong of Final Fours but there is just no comparison with the men's results.  Last year's down year was 26-10, a Pac-12 tourney title, and a S16 NCAA finish.  The team was ranked all year.  This season, another with less talent than the F4 years, is now ranked in the top 15 at 22-6.  I nitpick the Tara's coaching plenty but trying to compare her coaching with what's going on with the men just seems a waste of time to me.

I gather you were fortunate enough not to watch the 01/04 game against ASU and the 01/24 game against UCLA.  As low-scoring [and many would likely say, anemic] as the men's offense has been under Dawkins, I don't believe it has ever failed to score at least 40 points, while the women's team managed that feat TWICE [31 and 36, respectively] in less than 3 weeks.  And, of course, there was the meltdown against OSU and that rather ugly early home loss to Santa Clara.  You may place all of the blame for those outcomes on the players; I don't.  And, while I certainly acknowledge questionable coaching has contributed substantially to the men's late game struggles over the past few seasons, I don't believe it has been the sole cause [as I recall, for example, a number of instances where almost certain game-winning free throws were missed].  As a result, I think "zero reason to compare anything" is simply not supported by the facts.  But I do agree that it's a waste of time...
[/quote]

You are misrepresenting what I wrote.  I certainly did not say that I place all the blame on the players.  If you followed WBB and read my posts here you would know that I have not liked some of the coaching choices this season.  You also gather wrong about what I've seen.  I've been to every home game this year (and pretty much all of them over the past 15+ seasons) and I've seen all the televised games.  We stunk against UCLA, ASU, and at the end of the OSU game.  Nobody is saying otherwise.   

What I am saying is that it's really silly to ignore the rest of this season or many seasons of past success because of a few clunker games this year when comparing coaches.  WBB went to F4s six out of seven years from 2008 to 2014, has been a #1 NCAA seed multiple times in that span, won the conference for many years running until last year, won the conference tournament all but I believe two (maybe three?) times since its inception, and even this year with the ugly games you mention, is still ranked #13, RPI 10 and is on track for probably a 4 or 5 seed in the NCAAs.  So a few stinker games this season means more than all that success and makes for a reasonable argument that Dawkins is a better coach this season?  Is that your argument in favor of Dawkins?  If so, well good luck with that.  I don't think you will convince many people.  I also find it a bit sad that you apparently feel your best argument in favor of Dawkins is to try to chop down another Stanford coach.  Dawkins' merits have nothing to do with whether or not Tara could have done a better job against ASU or UCLA or OSU (who are all ranked in the top 15 by the way).

[chimera]

[quote author=chimera link=topic=14628.msg157124#msg157124 date=1456336941]
I guess I might as well chime in as a long time women's basketball fan who follows the men's team a bit also.  IMO there is zero reason to compare anything that Dawkins has done with what Tara has done.  Women have a bad end of game against ASU does not equal the men struggling at the end of games multiple times a year in recent years.  The past two seasons for WBB have been down years compared to the strong of Final Fours but there is just no comparison with the men's results.  Last year's down year was 26-10, a Pac-12 tourney title, and a S16 NCAA finish.  The team was ranked all year.  This season, another with less talent than the F4 years, is now ranked in the top 15 at 22-6.  I nitpick the Tara's coaching plenty but trying to compare her coaching with what's going on with the men just seems a waste of time to me.

I gather you were fortunate enough not to watch the 01/04 game against ASU and the 01/24 game against UCLA.  As low-scoring [and many would likely say, anemic] as the men's offense has been under Dawkins, I don't believe it has ever failed to score at least 40 points, while the women's team managed that feat TWICE [31 and 36, respectively] in less than 3 weeks.  And, of course, there was the meltdown against OSU and that rather ugly early home loss to Santa Clara.  You may place all of the blame for those outcomes on the players; I don't.  And, while I certainly acknowledge questionable coaching has contributed substantially to the men's late game struggles over the past few seasons, I don't believe it has been the sole cause [as I recall, for example, a number of instances where almost certain game-winning free throws were missed].  As a result, I think "zero reason to compare anything" is simply not supported by the facts.  But I do agree that it's a waste of time...
[/quote]

You are misrepresenting what I wrote.  I certainly did not say that I place all the blame on the players.  If you followed WBB and read my posts here you would know that I have not liked some of the coaching choices this season.  You also gather wrong about what I've seen.  I've been to every home game this year (and pretty much all of them over the past 15+ seasons) and I've seen all the televised games.  We stunk against UCLA, ASU, and at the end of the OSU game.  Nobody is saying otherwise.   

What I am saying is that it's really silly to ignore the rest of this season or many seasons of past success because of a few clunker games this year when comparing coaches.  WBB went to F4s six out of seven years from 2008 to 2014, has been a #1 NCAA seed multiple times in that span, won the conference for many years running until last year, won the conference tournament all but I believe two (maybe three?) times since its inception, and even this year with the ugly games you mention, is still ranked #13, RPI 10 and is on track for probably a 4 or 5 seed in the NCAAs.  So a few stinker games this season means more than all that success and makes for a reasonable argument that Dawkins is a better coach this season?  Is that your argument in favor of Dawkins?  If so, well good luck with that.  I don't think you will convince many people.  I also find it a bit sad that you apparently feel your best argument in favor of Dawkins is to try to chop down another Stanford coach.  Dawkins' merits have nothing to do with whether or not Tara could have done a better job against ASU or UCLA or OSU (who are all ranked in the top 15 by the way).