[martyup]

A question for the attorneys in the crowd.

When I was a freshman, I knew a very popular young man who had no intention of tying himself down with a girlfriend at the age of 18.  There was a woman who lived in the same dorm and pursued him aggressively, with the intent of becoming his girlfriend.  Repeatedly and adamantly over the course of several months, he refuses her entreaties and flirtations and makes very clear his intent.  Just before departing for Thanksgiving, he hosts a party with about 50 attendees, she is in attendance.  Just before midnight, both are drunk and she pulls him off to the side, tells him she wants to spend the night with him, no strings attached.  He declines and repeats himself, claiming he doesn't want a relationship and therefore doesn't want to sleep with her.  She persists, says she just wants one night with him, etc.  He agrees, they commence and they are about to have sex when she begins to talk about their future life as a couple.  He says "I told you, I don't want a girlfriend" -- but has sex with her anyways.  He doesn't say if she says yes or no or anything at that point.

He tells me and three or four other guys this story over the holidays.  It's nagged at me over the years.  There were warning alarms all over the place, for both of them.  But was it rape?  I thought so, but then I have three younger sisters and I'm perhaps more sensitive than most about it.  So I'm curious as to what the attorneys on the board think.  How does this get adjudicated if she decides to press charges?

BTW, he never returned to school after his freshman year for financial reasons, but he was a schmoozer and connected with several Ca.l engineers who created a short-lived but profitable educational software startup.  It sold out in a few years, and he made a moderate amount of money.  Since then, he's led a behind-the-scenes life in Hollywood.

Odd aside: he has the same name as a noted campus sexual violence prevention expert.  They are definitely not the same person, the guy in question ended up in Hollywood.

I don't think "legal" consent can be conditioned upon a future relationship.  I think you are asking if she gave consent only if he agreed to be her boyfriend.  If conditions could be attached to consent, it would create very odd results.  For example, if a woman said she would have sex with a man if he agreed to help her study for an exam.  If he later refused to help her study, he could be guilty of rape.  I don't think that is the kind of legal standard society would desire.

[martyup]

A question for the attorneys in the crowd.

When I was a freshman, I knew a very popular young man who had no intention of tying himself down with a girlfriend at the age of 18.  There was a woman who lived in the same dorm and pursued him aggressively, with the intent of becoming his girlfriend.  Repeatedly and adamantly over the course of several months, he refuses her entreaties and flirtations and makes very clear his intent.  Just before departing for Thanksgiving, he hosts a party with about 50 attendees, she is in attendance.  Just before midnight, both are drunk and she pulls him off to the side, tells him she wants to spend the night with him, no strings attached.  He declines and repeats himself, claiming he doesn't want a relationship and therefore doesn't want to sleep with her.  She persists, says she just wants one night with him, etc.  He agrees, they commence and they are about to have sex when she begins to talk about their future life as a couple.  He says "I told you, I don't want a girlfriend" -- but has sex with her anyways.  He doesn't say if she says yes or no or anything at that point.

He tells me and three or four other guys this story over the holidays.  It's nagged at me over the years.  There were warning alarms all over the place, for both of them.  But was it rape?  I thought so, but then I have three younger sisters and I'm perhaps more sensitive than most about it.  So I'm curious as to what the attorneys on the board think.  How does this get adjudicated if she decides to press charges?

BTW, he never returned to school after his freshman year for financial reasons, but he was a schmoozer and connected with several Ca.l engineers who created a short-lived but profitable educational software startup.  It sold out in a few years, and he made a moderate amount of money.  Since then, he's led a behind-the-scenes life in Hollywood.

Odd aside: he has the same name as a noted campus sexual violence prevention expert.  They are definitely not the same person, the guy in question ended up in Hollywood.

I don't think "legal" consent can be conditioned upon a future relationship.  I think you are asking if she gave consent only if he agreed to be her boyfriend.  If conditions could be attached to consent, it would create very odd results.  For example, if a woman said she would have sex with a man if he agreed to help her study for an exam.  If he later refused to help her study, he could be guilty of rape.  I don't think that is the kind of legal standard society would desire.