[2006alum]

[quote author=2006alum link=topic=15166.msg164890#msg164890 date=1465746571]
I have a number of friends who went to Princeton in the mid to late 2000s. I've heard from several of them that for some of the more exclusive eating clubs, it was common for sexual acts to be traded for admission from the handful of (almost always male) student officers who ran the admissions process. I wonder if that's still happening today given how much more attention is given to sexual assault on campus?

Sounds like the c.al meme, whereby if you just donate enough, your kid is admitted to Stanford.

I wasn't going to dignify this idiotic comment with a response, but let's just say it would be impossible to do, because officers don't have that power and a majority of existing members, male and female, must approve new members.
[/quote]

...Except that my friends were in those eating clubs they were talking about. Maybe they were making it up to sound edgy, but it wasn't even said in a disparaging way. It was just stated as a common practice, rather matter-of-factly.  And my understanding is that at that time the leaders of the eating clubs had a disproportionate influence over who the clubs deigned to admit. Maybe it's changed since then - I think the university-operated dining halls have all opened since my friends were at Princeton.

This, by the way, is the description of the "bickering" (admissions) process, from wikipedia:

The bicker process varies widely by club, ranging from staid interviews conducted by club members to raucous games designed to foster competition among potential inductees. Following two or three evenings of bicker activities, the club membership selects new members in closed sessions, the conduct of which varies from club to club.

And this 1998 article, from the Daily Princetonian, more or less confirms the existence of such a practice, apparently known then as a "third floor bicker" at the time:

Assistant Dean of Student Life Sandra Silverman explained that her office was aware of past instances of sexual harassment.

"Every year, practically, students who are seniors come in and talk about their experiences two years ago, but they don’t feel comfortable reporting them," Silverman said. "People are not willing to come forward as witnesses."

"We hear stories about things like third-floor Bicker taking place. People don’t feel comfortable having a sexual encounter with a member that they hadn’t planned on or that would not have happened in different circumstances," she said.

Shanahan explained "third-floor Bicker" as an instance in which "a member offers to take a sophomore on a tour of the club. Then they take them into the room, lock the door, and say something like, ‘You’re not going to be let in unless you hook up with me.’ "

"We’ve heard about third-floor Bicker (and) people passed down the stairs naked," Silverman said. "People are intending it to be fun, but sometimes the people involved find it horrible, terrible, embarrassing, etc."

"If we hear rumors, we talk to the presidents about the complaints during the pre-Bicker and sign-in meetings, or as they arise," she said. "Without fact that substantiates a rumor, the University cannot take definitive action."

"The proctors can’t just go in and do a spot check because they are private clubs," Silverman explained.

SHARE director Janet Waronker said many times people prefer not to make official complaints and instead remain anonymous. "I can’t file a report without the permission of the person involved," she said.

‘Power dynamic’

"There is a sort of power dynamic during Bicker. People have been concerned about instances when members somehow take advantage of prospective members," Kira Gnesdiloff ’98 said.

And edited to add: it also doesn't surprise me, because variations on the same behavior happened at Stanford when I was an undergraduate. See this article, for example, documenting how some Tri-Delt pledges were taken as part of a pledging event to drink with football players, and at least one of the pledges was coerced into performing sexual acts during the pledge event.

[2006alum]

[quote author=2006alum link=topic=15166.msg164890#msg164890 date=1465746571]
I have a number of friends who went to Princeton in the mid to late 2000s. I've heard from several of them that for some of the more exclusive eating clubs, it was common for sexual acts to be traded for admission from the handful of (almost always male) student officers who ran the admissions process. I wonder if that's still happening today given how much more attention is given to sexual assault on campus?

Sounds like the c.al meme, whereby if you just donate enough, your kid is admitted to Stanford.

I wasn't going to dignify this idiotic comment with a response, but let's just say it would be impossible to do, because officers don't have that power and a majority of existing members, male and female, must approve new members.
[/quote]

...Except that my friends were in those eating clubs they were talking about. Maybe they were making it up to sound edgy, but it wasn't even said in a disparaging way. It was just stated as a common practice, rather matter-of-factly.  And my understanding is that at that time the leaders of the eating clubs had a disproportionate influence over who the clubs deigned to admit. Maybe it's changed since then - I think the university-operated dining halls have all opened since my friends were at Princeton.

This, by the way, is the description of the "bickering" (admissions) process, from wikipedia:

The bicker process varies widely by club, ranging from staid interviews conducted by club members to raucous games designed to foster competition among potential inductees. Following two or three evenings of bicker activities, the club membership selects new members in closed sessions, the conduct of which varies from club to club.

And this 1998 article, from the Daily Princetonian, more or less confirms the existence of such a practice, apparently known then as a "third floor bicker" at the time:

Assistant Dean of Student Life Sandra Silverman explained that her office was aware of past instances of sexual harassment.

"Every year, practically, students who are seniors come in and talk about their experiences two years ago, but they don’t feel comfortable reporting them," Silverman said. "People are not willing to come forward as witnesses."

"We hear stories about things like third-floor Bicker taking place. People don’t feel comfortable having a sexual encounter with a member that they hadn’t planned on or that would not have happened in different circumstances," she said.

Shanahan explained "third-floor Bicker" as an instance in which "a member offers to take a sophomore on a tour of the club. Then they take them into the room, lock the door, and say something like, ‘You’re not going to be let in unless you hook up with me.’ "

"We’ve heard about third-floor Bicker (and) people passed down the stairs naked," Silverman said. "People are intending it to be fun, but sometimes the people involved find it horrible, terrible, embarrassing, etc."

"If we hear rumors, we talk to the presidents about the complaints during the pre-Bicker and sign-in meetings, or as they arise," she said. "Without fact that substantiates a rumor, the University cannot take definitive action."

"The proctors can’t just go in and do a spot check because they are private clubs," Silverman explained.

SHARE director Janet Waronker said many times people prefer not to make official complaints and instead remain anonymous. "I can’t file a report without the permission of the person involved," she said.

‘Power dynamic’

"There is a sort of power dynamic during Bicker. People have been concerned about instances when members somehow take advantage of prospective members," Kira Gnesdiloff ’98 said.

And edited to add: it also doesn't surprise me, because variations on the same behavior happened at Stanford when I was an undergraduate. See this article, for example, documenting how some Tri-Delt pledges were taken as part of a pledging event to drink with football players, and at least one of the pledges was coerced into performing sexual acts during the pledge event.