[Mick]

[quote author=gocard14 link=topic=16187.msg181256#msg181256 date=1480554009]While that is a fair point that the danger is likely overblown, I'd bet most of us would be much more in our element in an American city. Id. know what areas to avoid, and how to act in a safe manner. The same can't really be said in Juarez.

...Would you? I mean you could make guesses, but it's not always obvious. There are a surprising number of murders on the streets leading up to the BART station I take daily, despite them looking like pretty much like the mission in SF (wider main street is the main difference). Even though I live here and go past this area daily it surprised me how dangerous it apparently is at the wee hours of the morning.

I would have no idea where to go in Detroit except rules of thumb like "if there are lots of people it's probably fine" and I don't see why that wouldn't work in Juarez.
[/quote]

If you're in the heart of downtown Detroit, you're probably okay.  The police presence is visible and noticeable, and if the weather is nice-ish, then there are typically a ton of people around.  All the major sports stadiums are downtown, the restaurants, Greektown, three large casinos (and believe me, the security/police presence there is Vegas-like), the RenCen (Renaissance Center) is GM's HQ and is across the street on the Detroit river.  Corktown (immediately west, named after Irish immigrants ancestral home) is rapidly gentrifying as is RiverTown (immediately East of Downtown).

That said...driving six of the nine miles on Jefferson Avenue between my office and my home in Grosse Pointe Farms can be an eerie experience.  I've filled up my tank at night, but I don't like it much.  And I got stuck on the main drag at midnight when it was raining heavily, and a very nice fella helped me push my car into a gas station.  My landlord told me the car would be stripped by the time I got back to it in the morning, but it was fine.

Still...there are a few thriving businesses, but they're spaced somewhat far apart.  Pedestrians will wander into the road and challenge cars, similar to what they do in the Tenderloin.  it strikes me as very bleak.  The good news, I guess, is there's a lot of assaults, not as many shootings.  But if you're south of 8 mile, and you're in either the northwest or central east part of the city, you are in a very, very grim area, plus, there are nasty pockets throughout.

[Mick]

[quote author=gocard14 link=topic=16187.msg181256#msg181256 date=1480554009]While that is a fair point that the danger is likely overblown, I'd bet most of us would be much more in our element in an American city. Id. know what areas to avoid, and how to act in a safe manner. The same can't really be said in Juarez.

...Would you? I mean you could make guesses, but it's not always obvious. There are a surprising number of murders on the streets leading up to the BART station I take daily, despite them looking like pretty much like the mission in SF (wider main street is the main difference). Even though I live here and go past this area daily it surprised me how dangerous it apparently is at the wee hours of the morning.

I would have no idea where to go in Detroit except rules of thumb like "if there are lots of people it's probably fine" and I don't see why that wouldn't work in Juarez.
[/quote]

If you're in the heart of downtown Detroit, you're probably okay.  The police presence is visible and noticeable, and if the weather is nice-ish, then there are typically a ton of people around.  All the major sports stadiums are downtown, the restaurants, Greektown, three large casinos (and believe me, the security/police presence there is Vegas-like), the RenCen (Renaissance Center) is GM's HQ and is across the street on the Detroit river.  Corktown (immediately west, named after Irish immigrants ancestral home) is rapidly gentrifying as is RiverTown (immediately East of Downtown).

That said...driving six of the nine miles on Jefferson Avenue between my office and my home in Grosse Pointe Farms can be an eerie experience.  I've filled up my tank at night, but I don't like it much.  And I got stuck on the main drag at midnight when it was raining heavily, and a very nice fella helped me push my car into a gas station.  My landlord told me the car would be stripped by the time I got back to it in the morning, but it was fine.

Still...there are a few thriving businesses, but they're spaced somewhat far apart.  Pedestrians will wander into the road and challenge cars, similar to what they do in the Tenderloin.  it strikes me as very bleak.  The good news, I guess, is there's a lot of assaults, not as many shootings.  But if you're south of 8 mile, and you're in either the northwest or central east part of the city, you are in a very, very grim area, plus, there are nasty pockets throughout.