01-07-2012, 09:45 PM
81alum--
Well, let's see. The first half, we played a non-switching player-to-player early, and got burned time and again. Watching Lindy or Bonnie chase a driving guard down the lane after a simple pick at the top of the key was getting really tiring. And, not to put it all on them, but there was no hedging help from the player defending the pick for a lot of the plays. Simple drives to the hoop or dishes to the post when the underneath players had to rotate explains a lot of their shooting accuracy. Also absent: any real attempt at fighting over or through the pick.
We played a possession or so of 2-3 zone coming out of a OSU timeout and generated a turnover, but then went right back. Then switched to this 2-1-2 zone with which the coaching staff has apparently fallen in love. I don't really understand the appeal (although it does take away the middle of the lane normally), for one basic reason: in order for a 2-1-2 to generate pressure and stops, you need quick players chasing up top. Our two most athletic players are playing the backline of that zone. And with Jos or Taylor at the foul line in that zone, they were almost being used as picks themselves when the quicker Beaver guards got behind the two defenders outside - they would drive across the lane and cause more confusion.
In the second half, we played quite a bit more 2-3, and I think it helped for a while. But then OSU actually put in an offense designed to counter the 2-3 (quick passes to the corner, then to the post or the foul line, reverse to the opposite corner, then either shoot or hit the player at the top of the arc as Stanford's defense tried to get out on the wing shooter). And their shooting did cool off remarkably. The other thing it did was stop our post players from having to come off their mark to help out - in the first half, OSU hung with Stanford on the boards in large part because of the rotation help from the bigs; in the second half, a more condensed defense helped Stanford outboard the Beavers something like 20-10.
The far larger issue was Stanford's offense. OSU didn't even contest the tip off; they immediately fell into a 2-3 zone. And Stanford did one of two things: immediately force the ball in to a double- and triple-teamed Nneka, or pass it around the perimeter for 20 seconds and then force it in to a double and triple-teamed Nneka. No one seemed willing to take an outside shot, and the Beavers' offensive efficiency meant there weren't a lot of transition opportunities off rebounds for the Cardinal. And that continued pretty much the entire game.
I don't know if it's just the peculiarities of the Stanford version of the triangle, but until very late in the game, the offense didn't change up into a "zone-busting" look. It simply kept trying to get the ball into the lane, and it worked often enough (mostly due to Nneka and Chiney's insane athletic abilities) for the coaches to keep at it.
The larger issue is, I think Tara's comments on Thursday about people not being able to hit shots really sent a chill through our guards - Lindy, Toni and Amber REALLY looked reluctant to shoot (and almost reluctant to feed Bonnie, who was willing; when she was on the floor, the ball kept reversing away from her). It felt like a game in the Pac-10 tournament a few seasons back, when Stanford played Arizona State in the finals and Kelley Suminski basically played a one-woman zone because ASU's guards really didn't want to shoot.
In this game, I don't really think their perimeter recovered that quickly, I think Stanford just really didn't want to shoot outside, and OSU kept sagging 3-4 people into the paint. The Cardinal's passing also left a lot to be desired; lots of toss it around the perimeter, most especially between Toni and Lindy, with very little aggression on the dribble or on the pass to try to get the zone moving. The one exception was that Lindy kept trying to feed lobs to Nneka for her patented alley-oop layup; it worked once or twice, but then that third defender kept tipping the ball away because she didn't have to come out to defend anyone.
More generally, against the zone the ball has to keep moving, move in and out and laterally quickly, then reverse or kick out to shoot before the zone can recover, or make one more pass and try to catch the defenders over-committing to the initial chance. OSU didn't care about the latter; Stanford's triggers from outside were very slow tonight. And the Cardinal offense, with its emphasis on 3 perimeter - 2 post triangles, kept trying to play WITHIN those triangles, which goes right into the zone's strength. Reverse or skip passes to the opposite corner create pressure on the zone, but Stanford only makes those passes around the perimeter.
Sorry if I'm being unclear. Let's say Toni has the ball up top, with Lindy in the wing or corner and Nneka in the post. The triangle principles Stanford seems to play within seem to preclude anyone other than Toni playing the ball to the opposite wing. So if Nneka gets the ball and is doubled by Lindy's player, she kicks it back out to Lindy, who then (almost always) gives a half-hearted shot fake and either dumps the ball back in or brings it to Toni up top. Rarely do you see the post kick it to the opposite wing herself.
The other big issue is the lack of multiple dimensions in the passing. It is either horizontal (around the perimeter) or entry-kickout (into and out of the post). What you need is post-to-post, or post to high post to corner, where multiple passes and OPTIONS come into play, rather than just a three-player game with two players waiting to (A) retreat on defense from the opposite wing or (B) crash the boards from the opposite post.
It got so bad that a friend of mine got upset with me when I started yelling what Stanford would do when they were walking the ball up in the second half and Toni and Lindy just started tossing it back and forth between them; I was that frustrated. And it was on a possession that ended in a Stanford turnover (or maybe a held ball) because of that unimaginative and passive offensive mindset.
Near the end of the game, with Joslyn in playing the three, you started to get a glimpse of what the appropriate response to the 2-3 should have been all along. Instead of 3 out-2 in triangle, Joslyn played the high post at the foul line (she's 6'4" - as long as she doesn't bring the ball down, she'll have a good look at the pass or the shot from there), with the two guards on either wing. For two straight possessions late, she did that and pushed a 9 point Stanford lead out to 14, on a three-point conversion by Chiney and a free-throw line jumper when the D dropped off. Hopefully we'll learn from that experience.
I don't know, maybe Tara's zone aversion extends to preparing to counter it. But offensively, Stanford really seems to have trouble adapting to what the opponent offers. They've been saved recently by outstanding performances by Nneka, with 2 or 3 other supporting cast. But today showed that other teams are going to dedicate themselves to taking away as much of her room to operate as possible unless some perimeter player makes them pay for it.
The other thing missing offensively? Penetration with the dribble of any kind. I can understand being reluctant to drive given our great post players, but you have to be willing to punish over-committed perimeter defenders, which they faced today.
The thing missing defensively? A one-on-one perimeter defender who can stay with quick players, as I've said before, a la Charmin Smith or Bobbie Kelsey. Maybe Erica - she's been on the perimeter in the last couple of appearances I've seen?
In any case, yuck.
VG
Well, let's see. The first half, we played a non-switching player-to-player early, and got burned time and again. Watching Lindy or Bonnie chase a driving guard down the lane after a simple pick at the top of the key was getting really tiring. And, not to put it all on them, but there was no hedging help from the player defending the pick for a lot of the plays. Simple drives to the hoop or dishes to the post when the underneath players had to rotate explains a lot of their shooting accuracy. Also absent: any real attempt at fighting over or through the pick.
We played a possession or so of 2-3 zone coming out of a OSU timeout and generated a turnover, but then went right back. Then switched to this 2-1-2 zone with which the coaching staff has apparently fallen in love. I don't really understand the appeal (although it does take away the middle of the lane normally), for one basic reason: in order for a 2-1-2 to generate pressure and stops, you need quick players chasing up top. Our two most athletic players are playing the backline of that zone. And with Jos or Taylor at the foul line in that zone, they were almost being used as picks themselves when the quicker Beaver guards got behind the two defenders outside - they would drive across the lane and cause more confusion.
In the second half, we played quite a bit more 2-3, and I think it helped for a while. But then OSU actually put in an offense designed to counter the 2-3 (quick passes to the corner, then to the post or the foul line, reverse to the opposite corner, then either shoot or hit the player at the top of the arc as Stanford's defense tried to get out on the wing shooter). And their shooting did cool off remarkably. The other thing it did was stop our post players from having to come off their mark to help out - in the first half, OSU hung with Stanford on the boards in large part because of the rotation help from the bigs; in the second half, a more condensed defense helped Stanford outboard the Beavers something like 20-10.
The far larger issue was Stanford's offense. OSU didn't even contest the tip off; they immediately fell into a 2-3 zone. And Stanford did one of two things: immediately force the ball in to a double- and triple-teamed Nneka, or pass it around the perimeter for 20 seconds and then force it in to a double and triple-teamed Nneka. No one seemed willing to take an outside shot, and the Beavers' offensive efficiency meant there weren't a lot of transition opportunities off rebounds for the Cardinal. And that continued pretty much the entire game.
I don't know if it's just the peculiarities of the Stanford version of the triangle, but until very late in the game, the offense didn't change up into a "zone-busting" look. It simply kept trying to get the ball into the lane, and it worked often enough (mostly due to Nneka and Chiney's insane athletic abilities) for the coaches to keep at it.
The larger issue is, I think Tara's comments on Thursday about people not being able to hit shots really sent a chill through our guards - Lindy, Toni and Amber REALLY looked reluctant to shoot (and almost reluctant to feed Bonnie, who was willing; when she was on the floor, the ball kept reversing away from her). It felt like a game in the Pac-10 tournament a few seasons back, when Stanford played Arizona State in the finals and Kelley Suminski basically played a one-woman zone because ASU's guards really didn't want to shoot.
In this game, I don't really think their perimeter recovered that quickly, I think Stanford just really didn't want to shoot outside, and OSU kept sagging 3-4 people into the paint. The Cardinal's passing also left a lot to be desired; lots of toss it around the perimeter, most especially between Toni and Lindy, with very little aggression on the dribble or on the pass to try to get the zone moving. The one exception was that Lindy kept trying to feed lobs to Nneka for her patented alley-oop layup; it worked once or twice, but then that third defender kept tipping the ball away because she didn't have to come out to defend anyone.
More generally, against the zone the ball has to keep moving, move in and out and laterally quickly, then reverse or kick out to shoot before the zone can recover, or make one more pass and try to catch the defenders over-committing to the initial chance. OSU didn't care about the latter; Stanford's triggers from outside were very slow tonight. And the Cardinal offense, with its emphasis on 3 perimeter - 2 post triangles, kept trying to play WITHIN those triangles, which goes right into the zone's strength. Reverse or skip passes to the opposite corner create pressure on the zone, but Stanford only makes those passes around the perimeter.
Sorry if I'm being unclear. Let's say Toni has the ball up top, with Lindy in the wing or corner and Nneka in the post. The triangle principles Stanford seems to play within seem to preclude anyone other than Toni playing the ball to the opposite wing. So if Nneka gets the ball and is doubled by Lindy's player, she kicks it back out to Lindy, who then (almost always) gives a half-hearted shot fake and either dumps the ball back in or brings it to Toni up top. Rarely do you see the post kick it to the opposite wing herself.
The other big issue is the lack of multiple dimensions in the passing. It is either horizontal (around the perimeter) or entry-kickout (into and out of the post). What you need is post-to-post, or post to high post to corner, where multiple passes and OPTIONS come into play, rather than just a three-player game with two players waiting to (A) retreat on defense from the opposite wing or (B) crash the boards from the opposite post.
It got so bad that a friend of mine got upset with me when I started yelling what Stanford would do when they were walking the ball up in the second half and Toni and Lindy just started tossing it back and forth between them; I was that frustrated. And it was on a possession that ended in a Stanford turnover (or maybe a held ball) because of that unimaginative and passive offensive mindset.
Near the end of the game, with Joslyn in playing the three, you started to get a glimpse of what the appropriate response to the 2-3 should have been all along. Instead of 3 out-2 in triangle, Joslyn played the high post at the foul line (she's 6'4" - as long as she doesn't bring the ball down, she'll have a good look at the pass or the shot from there), with the two guards on either wing. For two straight possessions late, she did that and pushed a 9 point Stanford lead out to 14, on a three-point conversion by Chiney and a free-throw line jumper when the D dropped off. Hopefully we'll learn from that experience.
I don't know, maybe Tara's zone aversion extends to preparing to counter it. But offensively, Stanford really seems to have trouble adapting to what the opponent offers. They've been saved recently by outstanding performances by Nneka, with 2 or 3 other supporting cast. But today showed that other teams are going to dedicate themselves to taking away as much of her room to operate as possible unless some perimeter player makes them pay for it.
The other thing missing offensively? Penetration with the dribble of any kind. I can understand being reluctant to drive given our great post players, but you have to be willing to punish over-committed perimeter defenders, which they faced today.
The thing missing defensively? A one-on-one perimeter defender who can stay with quick players, as I've said before, a la Charmin Smith or Bobbie Kelsey. Maybe Erica - she's been on the perimeter in the last couple of appearances I've seen?
In any case, yuck.
VG