[Stymie]

[quote author=Stymie link=topic=9839.msg91278#msg91278 date=1403110290]
In baseball there are great players and HOF players, and the GPs are a very small subset of the HOFP's, plus a few outliers.  Rose and Shoeless Joe will always each be one of the very few outliers amongst that set of the very few (less than 50) players who deserved to be called "great," but neither will be in the HOF (at least in my lifetime).

I am sure this will kill my respect score, but I don't think what Shoeless Joe did and what Pete did are remotely comparable.  One bet on his team to win.  One took money to lose.  Both broke the rules, but with different intentions and different results.  Rick Neuheisal broke the rules, too, and although awkward to place in the same paragraph as Joe and Pete, his transgression was betting yet went on to coaching jobs and analyst jobs.  If Pete solely bet on his team to win, I see no difference between that and a horse owner betting on his horse to win.  Except one is against the rules and the other isn't.
[/quote]

Good points Mr. Ferrari (can I call you Enzo)?

I'm pretty Manichean when it comes to morality, and I side with the dark side.  This is not because I "believe" in "evil," but because I am of the opinion that if we limited all of our Halls of "Fame" to people who have never cheated or lied (even if we just care about that part of their lives when they were doing whatever it was to make them "Famous") these "Halls" would be empty.  We all cheat or lie, starting out before we even know what these words mean, as young children.  Most of us (including me) try to minimize these transgressions in our adult life, but I do not know a single person who has ever been 100% successful in this regard.  So, why not have our Halls of Fame be for those who managed to sparkle in the firmaments of our games, even if briefly and even slightly or significantly imorally?  Maybe even Rosie Ruiz should be in the Boston Marathon Hall of Fame?  To me she sparkles, even if only for the incredible chutzpah of her time in the sun (or out of the sun when she was riding the bus, as it may have been.....).

PS--Don't worry about your "respect score," Enzo.  By calling me out you probably are swimming in +++++'s by now.

[Stymie]

[quote author=Stymie link=topic=9839.msg91278#msg91278 date=1403110290]
In baseball there are great players and HOF players, and the GPs are a very small subset of the HOFP's, plus a few outliers.  Rose and Shoeless Joe will always each be one of the very few outliers amongst that set of the very few (less than 50) players who deserved to be called "great," but neither will be in the HOF (at least in my lifetime).

I am sure this will kill my respect score, but I don't think what Shoeless Joe did and what Pete did are remotely comparable.  One bet on his team to win.  One took money to lose.  Both broke the rules, but with different intentions and different results.  Rick Neuheisal broke the rules, too, and although awkward to place in the same paragraph as Joe and Pete, his transgression was betting yet went on to coaching jobs and analyst jobs.  If Pete solely bet on his team to win, I see no difference between that and a horse owner betting on his horse to win.  Except one is against the rules and the other isn't.
[/quote]

Good points Mr. Ferrari (can I call you Enzo)?

I'm pretty Manichean when it comes to morality, and I side with the dark side.  This is not because I "believe" in "evil," but because I am of the opinion that if we limited all of our Halls of "Fame" to people who have never cheated or lied (even if we just care about that part of their lives when they were doing whatever it was to make them "Famous") these "Halls" would be empty.  We all cheat or lie, starting out before we even know what these words mean, as young children.  Most of us (including me) try to minimize these transgressions in our adult life, but I do not know a single person who has ever been 100% successful in this regard.  So, why not have our Halls of Fame be for those who managed to sparkle in the firmaments of our games, even if briefly and even slightly or significantly imorally?  Maybe even Rosie Ruiz should be in the Boston Marathon Hall of Fame?  To me she sparkles, even if only for the incredible chutzpah of her time in the sun (or out of the sun when she was riding the bus, as it may have been.....).

PS--Don't worry about your "respect score," Enzo.  By calling me out you probably are swimming in +++++'s by now.