[TreesAndBirds]

Maybe college football programs should be asked to keep statistics not only on graduation rates, but also post graduation employment rates. While we can differ on whether college football players should be paid, the biggest travesty is the schools not preparing them for the rest of their life. Thanks to Connor Halliday for sharing his story, and hopefully others will learn from it.


http://www.newsweek.com/connor-halliday-...tar-416717

[TreesAndBirds]

Maybe college football programs should be asked to keep statistics not only on graduation rates, but also post graduation employment rates. While we can differ on whether college football players should be paid, the biggest travesty is the schools not preparing them for the rest of their life. Thanks to Connor Halliday for sharing his story, and hopefully others will learn from it.


http://www.newsweek.com/connor-halliday-...tar-416717

[amartinsu13]

It's good that he shared his story and part of me feels bad for him, but part of me doesn't feel bad for him.  He had his shot at the NFL, and just quit.  It'd be one thing if he truly gave it everything he had, but he straight up just quit before rookie camp even started.

He spent nearly two weeks at the Redskins’ facility in Ashburn, Virginia, ingesting coach Jay Gruden’s playbook. Like a law school grad cramming for the bar exam while his mind is plagued with self-doubts about practicing law, Halliday was easily distracted. Mentally and emotionally, he had tapped out. On the eve of the three-day rookie training camp, he bought a one-way ticket home.

“I felt bad about not telling coach Gruden face-to-face,” says Halliday. “But I also felt like they told me that they were going to draft me, and then they didn’t.”

Some guys just aren't cut out for the NFL.  It's unfortunate he 'majored in football' at Washington State.

[amartinsu13]

It's good that he shared his story and part of me feels bad for him, but part of me doesn't feel bad for him.  He had his shot at the NFL, and just quit.  It'd be one thing if he truly gave it everything he had, but he straight up just quit before rookie camp even started.

He spent nearly two weeks at the Redskins’ facility in Ashburn, Virginia, ingesting coach Jay Gruden’s playbook. Like a law school grad cramming for the bar exam while his mind is plagued with self-doubts about practicing law, Halliday was easily distracted. Mentally and emotionally, he had tapped out. On the eve of the three-day rookie training camp, he bought a one-way ticket home.

“I felt bad about not telling coach Gruden face-to-face,” says Halliday. “But I also felt like they told me that they were going to draft me, and then they didn’t.”

Some guys just aren't cut out for the NFL.  It's unfortunate he 'majored in football' at Washington State.

[Rally]

Sad story.  Different ending but reminds me, in a way, of Leaf's story.  Is there something in the water in Pullman?

[Rally]

Sad story.  Different ending but reminds me, in a way, of Leaf's story.  Is there something in the water in Pullman?

[OutsiderFan]

It's a little unfair to infer that because Halliday was preparing for the NFL, that he didn't learn anything and has no opportunities out of football. The story did say he just had a second interview with an ad agency. 

[OutsiderFan]

It's a little unfair to infer that because Halliday was preparing for the NFL, that he didn't learn anything and has no opportunities out of football. The story did say he just had a second interview with an ad agency. 

[Rally]

It's a little unfair to infer that because Halliday was preparing for the NFL, that he didn't learn anything and has no opportunities out of football. The story did say he just had a second interview with an ad agency.

Yes, but the way he reported the interview didn't sound promising.  Somewhere there was a commercial of a job interview where the kids say he beat 99 gazillion aliens on a video game.  Interviewer was not impressed.  Similarly?

[Rally]

It's a little unfair to infer that because Halliday was preparing for the NFL, that he didn't learn anything and has no opportunities out of football. The story did say he just had a second interview with an ad agency.

Yes, but the way he reported the interview didn't sound promising.  Somewhere there was a commercial of a job interview where the kids say he beat 99 gazillion aliens on a video game.  Interviewer was not impressed.  Similarly?

[socalstanfan1]

Good article, but like some others on here I really don't feel too sorry for him.  It does seem like he was not given such great guidance by the adults in his life.  The story of a doctor warning him not to play a game in HS due to risk of injury, and the parents searching around for another doctor who would sign off on putting their kid back on the field?  How about stepping up and sending the message that, while you love football, you need to keep things in perspective? (And this from a mom who is a professor at Gonzaga.)  How about saying, "Get a major that will be worthwhile in case football doesn't work out?"  I understand that at a certain point in time everyone has to make their own decision, so maybe the advice was given but not heeded.  And if that is the case, then this is just a very hard lesson to learn.  But, as amartin pointed out, he had a chance to hook up with the Redskins and bailed at the last moment.  Indication, perhaps, that his confidence is totally rattled (he mentioned feeling small).  Somehow, I think having almost self-delusionary self-confidence is necessary for an athlete competing at such a high level. 

Despite this, I wish him the best.  The only comparison I see with Leaf is the university they both attended.  Leaf was a first-class jerk.  Holliday just seems like a young guy whose life has taken a sudden change that has thrown him for a loop.  Life has taken such a u-turn for the young man, it would be great if he was able to put it together and make any kind of career in the NFL, even as a career backup.  Or, alternately, come to grips with a new reality, forge a fulfilling life with another career, family, stability, etc.

[socalstanfan1]

Good article, but like some others on here I really don't feel too sorry for him.  It does seem like he was not given such great guidance by the adults in his life.  The story of a doctor warning him not to play a game in HS due to risk of injury, and the parents searching around for another doctor who would sign off on putting their kid back on the field?  How about stepping up and sending the message that, while you love football, you need to keep things in perspective? (And this from a mom who is a professor at Gonzaga.)  How about saying, "Get a major that will be worthwhile in case football doesn't work out?"  I understand that at a certain point in time everyone has to make their own decision, so maybe the advice was given but not heeded.  And if that is the case, then this is just a very hard lesson to learn.  But, as amartin pointed out, he had a chance to hook up with the Redskins and bailed at the last moment.  Indication, perhaps, that his confidence is totally rattled (he mentioned feeling small).  Somehow, I think having almost self-delusionary self-confidence is necessary for an athlete competing at such a high level. 

Despite this, I wish him the best.  The only comparison I see with Leaf is the university they both attended.  Leaf was a first-class jerk.  Holliday just seems like a young guy whose life has taken a sudden change that has thrown him for a loop.  Life has taken such a u-turn for the young man, it would be great if he was able to put it together and make any kind of career in the NFL, even as a career backup.  Or, alternately, come to grips with a new reality, forge a fulfilling life with another career, family, stability, etc.

[CowboyIndian]

The only comparison I see with Leaf is the university they both attended.  Leaf was a first-class jerk.  Holliday just seems like a young guy whose life has taken a sudden change that has thrown him for a loop.

I don't want to extrapolate too much from this but if you watched his body language after getting sacked a few times in our games against him...and watched him cuss out his OL,,,,you might have a little different opinion. He seemed pretty entitled and selfish from those few TV slices of his life. Maybe he's not but the evidence is leaning that way...at least in my opinion.

[CowboyIndian]

The only comparison I see with Leaf is the university they both attended.  Leaf was a first-class jerk.  Holliday just seems like a young guy whose life has taken a sudden change that has thrown him for a loop.

I don't want to extrapolate too much from this but if you watched his body language after getting sacked a few times in our games against him...and watched him cuss out his OL,,,,you might have a little different opinion. He seemed pretty entitled and selfish from those few TV slices of his life. Maybe he's not but the evidence is leaning that way...at least in my opinion.

[FarmBoy]

He should get into sales. In my experience, sales orgs are always looking for former college athletes. I think there's a belief that sports success correlates with success in selling. In kind of makes sense: hyper competitive function, a need to focus on what will get the win, studying your own strengths and your opponents, good looks, etc. My last company's sales force was almost exclusively former college athletes. We even had a former ND starting QB, so it's not just softball and track. If you can't spin a story about how your on the field success makes you a winner, a team player and someone who can learn quickly, then that's all on you.

[FarmBoy]

He should get into sales. In my experience, sales orgs are always looking for former college athletes. I think there's a belief that sports success correlates with success in selling. In kind of makes sense: hyper competitive function, a need to focus on what will get the win, studying your own strengths and your opponents, good looks, etc. My last company's sales force was almost exclusively former college athletes. We even had a former ND starting QB, so it's not just softball and track. If you can't spin a story about how your on the field success makes you a winner, a team player and someone who can learn quickly, then that's all on you.

[bl82]

Halliday's reaction to getting sacked and other setbacks appears to be 180 degrees from Luke Falk, who earned my highest respect this year.  Just based on the way they conduct themselves on the field, I would offer Falk a job before Halliday.

[bl82]

Halliday's reaction to getting sacked and other setbacks appears to be 180 degrees from Luke Falk, who earned my highest respect this year.  Just based on the way they conduct themselves on the field, I would offer Falk a job before Halliday.

[CornFed]

He should get into sales. In my experience, sales orgs are always looking for former college athletes. I think there's a belief that sports success correlates with success in selling. In kind of makes sense: hyper competitive function, a need to focus on what will get the win, studying your own strengths and your opponents, good looks, etc. My last company's sales force was almost exclusively former college athletes. We even had a former ND starting QB, so it's not just softball and track. If you can't spin a story about how your on the field success makes you a winner, a team player and someone who can learn quickly, then that's all on you.

I was hired by a fella who was quite candid about his hiring strategy in this regard.  He strongly preferred people who had been very successful in individual sports.  He wanted them to be accustomed to posting their own results, not having anywhere to hide failure and really liked it when I described my greatest failure in terms of the boost it gave me in my next event.

[CornFed]

He should get into sales. In my experience, sales orgs are always looking for former college athletes. I think there's a belief that sports success correlates with success in selling. In kind of makes sense: hyper competitive function, a need to focus on what will get the win, studying your own strengths and your opponents, good looks, etc. My last company's sales force was almost exclusively former college athletes. We even had a former ND starting QB, so it's not just softball and track. If you can't spin a story about how your on the field success makes you a winner, a team player and someone who can learn quickly, then that's all on you.

I was hired by a fella who was quite candid about his hiring strategy in this regard.  He strongly preferred people who had been very successful in individual sports.  He wanted them to be accustomed to posting their own results, not having anywhere to hide failure and really liked it when I described my greatest failure in terms of the boost it gave me in my next event.

[winflop]

Maybe college football programs should be asked to keep statistics not only on graduation rates, but also post graduation employment rates. While we can differ on whether college football players should be paid, the biggest travesty is the schools not preparing them for the rest of their life. Thanks to Connor Halliday for sharing his story, and hopefully others will learn from it.


http://www.newsweek.com/connor-halliday-...tar-416717

I think this is somewhat incumbent on the student-athlete to GO TO CLASS and GET AN EDUCATION.  They are given the opportunity to do so - shame on them if they don't take advantage of it.

[winflop]

Maybe college football programs should be asked to keep statistics not only on graduation rates, but also post graduation employment rates. While we can differ on whether college football players should be paid, the biggest travesty is the schools not preparing them for the rest of their life. Thanks to Connor Halliday for sharing his story, and hopefully others will learn from it.


http://www.newsweek.com/connor-halliday-...tar-416717

I think this is somewhat incumbent on the student-athlete to GO TO CLASS and GET AN EDUCATION.  They are given the opportunity to do so - shame on them if they don't take advantage of it.

[JohnR34231]

[quote author=TreesAndBirds link=topic=14420.msg153295#msg153295 date=1453071417]
Maybe college football programs should be asked to keep statistics not only on graduation rates, but also post graduation employment rates. While we can differ on whether college football players should be paid, the biggest travesty is the schools not preparing them for the rest of their life. Thanks to Connor Halliday for sharing his story, and hopefully others will learn from it.


http://www.newsweek.com/connor-halliday-...tar-416717

I think this is somewhat incumbent on the student-athlete to GO TO CLASS and GET AN EDUCATION.  They are given the opportunity to do so - shame on them if they don't take advantage of it.
[/quote]

I agree, and blaming the university when they don't is inappropriate.

[JohnR34231]

[quote author=TreesAndBirds link=topic=14420.msg153295#msg153295 date=1453071417]
Maybe college football programs should be asked to keep statistics not only on graduation rates, but also post graduation employment rates. While we can differ on whether college football players should be paid, the biggest travesty is the schools not preparing them for the rest of their life. Thanks to Connor Halliday for sharing his story, and hopefully others will learn from it.


http://www.newsweek.com/connor-halliday-...tar-416717

I think this is somewhat incumbent on the student-athlete to GO TO CLASS and GET AN EDUCATION.  They are given the opportunity to do so - shame on them if they don't take advantage of it.
[/quote]

I agree, and blaming the university when they don't is inappropriate.

[TreesAndBirds]

[quote author=winflop link=topic=14420.msg153370#msg153370 date=1453100278]
[quote author=TreesAndBirds link=topic=14420.msg153295#msg153295 date=1453071417]
Maybe college football programs should be asked to keep statistics not only on graduation rates, but also post graduation employment rates. While we can differ on whether college football players should be paid, the biggest travesty is the schools not preparing them for the rest of their life. Thanks to Connor Halliday for sharing his story, and hopefully others will learn from it.


http://www.newsweek.com/connor-halliday-...tar-416717

I think this is somewhat incumbent on the student-athlete to GO TO CLASS and GET AN EDUCATION.  They are given the opportunity to do so - shame on them if they don't take advantage of it.
[/quote]

I agree, and blaming the university when they don't is inappropriate.
[/quote]

My view is different. While I agree that an athlete is responsible for his own decisions and gets part of the blame when he doesnt take his education seriously, I think much of the responsibility is attributable to the university/athletic department if this attitude is common among their athletes. I dont know the specifics of WSU, which is why I said it would be good to have some post graduation statitistics if that was feasible. But universities create a culture as to what is expected of athletes......by their admission standards, by the importance coaches place on academics (guiding to easy majors, not showing flexibility when practice and school conflicts), by having separate dorms for athletes, by their everyday actions and words. These are 18-22 year old kids.....in a perfect world they would know whats best for their future and do the right thing, in the real world many of them are going to take their cues from the environment around them, and the university/AD bears significant responsibility for that. So if UNC offers courses that dont require any work, and athletes sign up for those courses, the university bears a lot of the responsibility, even if the kids should have known better. If universities are being made to account for whether athletes graduate, it doesnt seem like much of a leap to give them some responsibility as to whether their degree has any value. In this age where some want student athletes to be treated more like professionals and paid, I want them treated more like students and mentored to prepare themselves for their future. And if that isnt what some NFL hopefuls want, then let the NFL find another way to train them. All that said, I agree that there is substantial future benefit to the skills of teamwork, leadership, discipline, etc that student athletes learn, but it does not replace the skills you learn from academic study. Those skills are in some way more similar to those you might learn in the military, which can also be very valuable, but doesnt result in a college degree.

[TreesAndBirds]

[quote author=winflop link=topic=14420.msg153370#msg153370 date=1453100278]
[quote author=TreesAndBirds link=topic=14420.msg153295#msg153295 date=1453071417]
Maybe college football programs should be asked to keep statistics not only on graduation rates, but also post graduation employment rates. While we can differ on whether college football players should be paid, the biggest travesty is the schools not preparing them for the rest of their life. Thanks to Connor Halliday for sharing his story, and hopefully others will learn from it.


http://www.newsweek.com/connor-halliday-...tar-416717

I think this is somewhat incumbent on the student-athlete to GO TO CLASS and GET AN EDUCATION.  They are given the opportunity to do so - shame on them if they don't take advantage of it.
[/quote]

I agree, and blaming the university when they don't is inappropriate.
[/quote]

My view is different. While I agree that an athlete is responsible for his own decisions and gets part of the blame when he doesnt take his education seriously, I think much of the responsibility is attributable to the university/athletic department if this attitude is common among their athletes. I dont know the specifics of WSU, which is why I said it would be good to have some post graduation statitistics if that was feasible. But universities create a culture as to what is expected of athletes......by their admission standards, by the importance coaches place on academics (guiding to easy majors, not showing flexibility when practice and school conflicts), by having separate dorms for athletes, by their everyday actions and words. These are 18-22 year old kids.....in a perfect world they would know whats best for their future and do the right thing, in the real world many of them are going to take their cues from the environment around them, and the university/AD bears significant responsibility for that. So if UNC offers courses that dont require any work, and athletes sign up for those courses, the university bears a lot of the responsibility, even if the kids should have known better. If universities are being made to account for whether athletes graduate, it doesnt seem like much of a leap to give them some responsibility as to whether their degree has any value. In this age where some want student athletes to be treated more like professionals and paid, I want them treated more like students and mentored to prepare themselves for their future. And if that isnt what some NFL hopefuls want, then let the NFL find another way to train them. All that said, I agree that there is substantial future benefit to the skills of teamwork, leadership, discipline, etc that student athletes learn, but it does not replace the skills you learn from academic study. Those skills are in some way more similar to those you might learn in the military, which can also be very valuable, but doesnt result in a college degree.

[PrinceLightfoot]

Agree with many statements in this thread. I can understand the emotional distress he must have felt from not being drafted, but the note of entitlement concerning his draftability was his ultimate undoing when he still had a chance as an undrafted free agent. Sure, UDFA pay is terrible compared to actually being drafted, but he had a chance at becoming a serviceable backup QB if not a starter. He realized he needed to continue to work and prove himself; something he did not want to do anymore...at 23 years of age!!! It is hard to feel sorry for him, but it also seems like he received little guidance.

[PrinceLightfoot]

Agree with many statements in this thread. I can understand the emotional distress he must have felt from not being drafted, but the note of entitlement concerning his draftability was his ultimate undoing when he still had a chance as an undrafted free agent. Sure, UDFA pay is terrible compared to actually being drafted, but he had a chance at becoming a serviceable backup QB if not a starter. He realized he needed to continue to work and prove himself; something he did not want to do anymore...at 23 years of age!!! It is hard to feel sorry for him, but it also seems like he received little guidance.

[fullmetal]

Halliday, like many others who get considerably less press, seems unaccustomed to failure and may not yet have the resilience to bounce back.  When his core identity as a quarterback is taken away from him (via lack of pro teams), you can guess how adrift he feels.  Whether he had a choice in it or not, that was what he was trained to do (looking at his parents right there). 

His actions are not helping him, and he certainly sounds a little entitled if not confused and lost.  But he's got time to pick up his life and make something out of it.  I think he has to believe in himself again in some capacity.

[fullmetal]

Halliday, like many others who get considerably less press, seems unaccustomed to failure and may not yet have the resilience to bounce back.  When his core identity as a quarterback is taken away from him (via lack of pro teams), you can guess how adrift he feels.  Whether he had a choice in it or not, that was what he was trained to do (looking at his parents right there). 

His actions are not helping him, and he certainly sounds a little entitled if not confused and lost.  But he's got time to pick up his life and make something out of it.  I think he has to believe in himself again in some capacity.

[needle]

Thanks to Connor Halliday for sharing his story, and hopefully others will learn from it.

I, too, appreciate Halliday's openness about his current circumstances. I just wonder what motivated him to open up about it to a reporter. I suppose there is perhaps a desire to have others younger than him think more deeply about their future, but I don't see Halliday explicitly mention this in the article.

It also might be one way of sending up a flag that he could really use a decent job--any decent job. But given the reaction here, it seems the article may have done more to harm his reputation than help it.

https://twitter.com/c_halliday12/status/...1220411392

[needle]

Thanks to Connor Halliday for sharing his story, and hopefully others will learn from it.

I, too, appreciate Halliday's openness about his current circumstances. I just wonder what motivated him to open up about it to a reporter. I suppose there is perhaps a desire to have others younger than him think more deeply about their future, but I don't see Halliday explicitly mention this in the article.

It also might be one way of sending up a flag that he could really use a decent job--any decent job. But given the reaction here, it seems the article may have done more to harm his reputation than help it.

https://twitter.com/c_halliday12/status/...1220411392

[Mick]

He should get into sales. In my experience, sales orgs are always looking for former college athletes. I think there's a belief that sports success correlates with success in selling. In kind of makes sense: hyper competitive function, a need to focus on what will get the win, studying your own strengths and your opponents, good looks, etc. My last company's sales force was almost exclusively former college athletes. We even had a former ND starting QB, so it's not just softball and track. If you can't spin a story about how your on the field success makes you a winner, a team player and someone who can learn quickly, then that's all on you.

The one Cardinal rule I have for my sales guys is that they be great, if not world-class listeners.  I'm not getting that sense from this guy.  He sounds like a hears-what-he-wants-to-hear guy.  Might be the kind of guy who could sell farm supplies or farm implements.

[Mick]

He should get into sales. In my experience, sales orgs are always looking for former college athletes. I think there's a belief that sports success correlates with success in selling. In kind of makes sense: hyper competitive function, a need to focus on what will get the win, studying your own strengths and your opponents, good looks, etc. My last company's sales force was almost exclusively former college athletes. We even had a former ND starting QB, so it's not just softball and track. If you can't spin a story about how your on the field success makes you a winner, a team player and someone who can learn quickly, then that's all on you.

The one Cardinal rule I have for my sales guys is that they be great, if not world-class listeners.  I'm not getting that sense from this guy.  He sounds like a hears-what-he-wants-to-hear guy.  Might be the kind of guy who could sell farm supplies or farm implements.

[winflop]

He almost sounds entitled, as if being a college athlete somehow entitles you to a job after graduation.  I hope most coaches make it a lesson - even if only one guy on each team gets it, that's a lot of people who get moving in the right direction that otherwise wouldn't.

[winflop]

He almost sounds entitled, as if being a college athlete somehow entitles you to a job after graduation.  I hope most coaches make it a lesson - even if only one guy on each team gets it, that's a lot of people who get moving in the right direction that otherwise wouldn't.

[Mick]

He almost sounds entitled, as if being a college athlete somehow entitles you to a job after graduation.  I hope most coaches make it a lesson - even if only one guy on each team gets it, that's a lot of people who get moving in the right direction that otherwise wouldn't.

If you really parse the article, there are screaming red flags all over the place that either he, or some adult should have pointed out.  Projected as a 4th/5th round pick at best?  And you're going to base your future on that?  You're in a business where the average career is 2.5 years...that's your future?  The hundreds of good-to-great college QBs who just never pan out?  And you're skinny, same size as Jared Goff...are you going to survive unhurt?

A man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest...

[Mick]

He almost sounds entitled, as if being a college athlete somehow entitles you to a job after graduation.  I hope most coaches make it a lesson - even if only one guy on each team gets it, that's a lot of people who get moving in the right direction that otherwise wouldn't.

If you really parse the article, there are screaming red flags all over the place that either he, or some adult should have pointed out.  Projected as a 4th/5th round pick at best?  And you're going to base your future on that?  You're in a business where the average career is 2.5 years...that's your future?  The hundreds of good-to-great college QBs who just never pan out?  And you're skinny, same size as Jared Goff...are you going to survive unhurt?

A man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest...

[CowboyIndian]

  Might be the kind of guy who could sell farm supplies or farm implements.

Is that so wrong?

[CowboyIndian]

  Might be the kind of guy who could sell farm supplies or farm implements.

Is that so wrong?