[CardinalSagehen]

The ability to repeatedly party in the backfield, without blitzing, has been fundamental to our long string of defensive success in the Shaw era.  As everyone here seems to have agreed, the most significant void on our roster heading into 2017 is the loss of Solomon Thomas.  I remember noticing when we'd rest Phillips and Thomas at the beginning of drives in the 2nd half last season, subbing in Cotton et al.  The Colorado game sticks in my memory but there were others like this, too.  It seemed like every time, the other team would quickly pop off 2-3 long runs and cross midfield before we'd bring in the cavalry, and then we'd immediately stiffen.  On the next drive, because our starters had actually rested so little, we'd try to do the same thing again and see the same result!  It was like night and day.  I actually felt badly for the subs and their bruised egos each time they came off the field after two 15-yard runs. 

Fortunately, we have Phillips returning, but as far as we can tell, there will be an immense drop-off from Thomas to Cotton or anyone else that is ready this year.  What if Phillips gets injured? 

I hope I'm wrong, and this might be a reflection of my fixed / non-growth mindset, but I actually think we're likely to field our weakest DL of the entire Shaw era this season.  I have great respect for all Stanford football players and mean no disrespect to the new guys coming up.  But this concerns me more than QB or any other position group at this point.  Am I overreacting?  Especially because it's just February?  :-X

[CardinalSagehen]

The ability to repeatedly party in the backfield, without blitzing, has been fundamental to our long string of defensive success in the Shaw era.  As everyone here seems to have agreed, the most significant void on our roster heading into 2017 is the loss of Solomon Thomas.  I remember noticing when we'd rest Phillips and Thomas at the beginning of drives in the 2nd half last season, subbing in Cotton et al.  The Colorado game sticks in my memory but there were others like this, too.  It seemed like every time, the other team would quickly pop off 2-3 long runs and cross midfield before we'd bring in the cavalry, and then we'd immediately stiffen.  On the next drive, because our starters had actually rested so little, we'd try to do the same thing again and see the same result!  It was like night and day.  I actually felt badly for the subs and their bruised egos each time they came off the field after two 15-yard runs. 

Fortunately, we have Phillips returning, but as far as we can tell, there will be an immense drop-off from Thomas to Cotton or anyone else that is ready this year.  What if Phillips gets injured? 

I hope I'm wrong, and this might be a reflection of my fixed / non-growth mindset, but I actually think we're likely to field our weakest DL of the entire Shaw era this season.  I have great respect for all Stanford football players and mean no disrespect to the new guys coming up.  But this concerns me more than QB or any other position group at this point.  Am I overreacting?  Especially because it's just February?  :-X

[BobK]

Don't forget Jackson is also a returning starter.
For a great write up see the new story on Rivals. 

[BobK]

Don't forget Jackson is also a returning starter.
For a great write up see the new story on Rivals. 

[82lsju]

Don't forget Jackson is also a returning starter.
For a great write up see the new story on Rivals.

https://stanford.rivals.com/news/which-o...-stanford-

[82lsju]

Don't forget Jackson is also a returning starter.
For a great write up see the new story on Rivals.

https://stanford.rivals.com/news/which-o...-stanford-

[CardinalSagehen]

Thanks, nice read.  It's unclear to me based on last season how good Jackson can become but great to have another returning starter. 

Our bar is just so high for that position and the shoes are so big to fill.

All things being equal, I'd like to see someone with a cool nickname like "The Secretary General" (aka Annan) do well.  Because, well, that's just a sweet nickname for defensive lineman. 

[CardinalSagehen]

Thanks, nice read.  It's unclear to me based on last season how good Jackson can become but great to have another returning starter. 

Our bar is just so high for that position and the shoes are so big to fill.

All things being equal, I'd like to see someone with a cool nickname like "The Secretary General" (aka Annan) do well.  Because, well, that's just a sweet nickname for defensive lineman. 

[CTcard]

...  I remember noticing when we'd rest Phillips and Thomas at the beginning of drives in the 2nd half last season, subbing in Cotton et al.  The Colorado game sticks in my memory but there were others like this, too. 


...
I hope I'm wrong, and this might be a reflection of my fixed / non-growth mindset, but I actually think we're likely to field our weakest DL of the entire Shaw era this season.

I have written the same about our run defense when Phillips and/or Thomas were rested, with the exact same Colorado game sticking in my mind so distinctly.

The one thing I would say about the DL, there have now been about three years straight where we thought we were looking at the weakest DL of the Shaw era. Each time we were basically saved by the skin of our teeth (2015 Brennan Scarlett showed up, 2016 Phillips got healthy and Thomas turned into an allstar). So, depending on your mind set you might decide that we have a good track record of making the DL work out or you might decide that we've been walking on the edge too long and doom is nigh.

[CTcard]

...  I remember noticing when we'd rest Phillips and Thomas at the beginning of drives in the 2nd half last season, subbing in Cotton et al.  The Colorado game sticks in my memory but there were others like this, too. 


...
I hope I'm wrong, and this might be a reflection of my fixed / non-growth mindset, but I actually think we're likely to field our weakest DL of the entire Shaw era this season.

I have written the same about our run defense when Phillips and/or Thomas were rested, with the exact same Colorado game sticking in my mind so distinctly.

The one thing I would say about the DL, there have now been about three years straight where we thought we were looking at the weakest DL of the Shaw era. Each time we were basically saved by the skin of our teeth (2015 Brennan Scarlett showed up, 2016 Phillips got healthy and Thomas turned into an allstar). So, depending on your mind set you might decide that we have a good track record of making the DL work out or you might decide that we've been walking on the edge too long and doom is nigh.

[SamuelMcF]

or you might decide that we've been walking on the edge too long and doom is nigh.

This one. Definitely this one.

Just for this season though; once the (many) young guys get another year to develop we'll be fine.

[SamuelMcF]

or you might decide that we've been walking on the edge too long and doom is nigh.

This one. Definitely this one.

Just for this season though; once the (many) young guys get another year to develop we'll be fine.

[OutsiderFan]

Phillips will be the anchor.  Dylan Jackson should make a jump in production.  Not expecting much from Annan, but maybe he will surprise.  Cotton may be better as he was still learning DE in 2016. 

The four redshirt frosh DL have to be the most watched guys in Spring practice, because Stanford must get some big contributions from at least two of them, IMO, to be a championship contender.  It sure would be great if Dalyn Wade-Perry is able to make a meaningful contribution as a true frosh. 

But this is a scary young DL in the making.  Based on eligibility:
SR Cotton
JR Phillips
SO Annan, Jackson
FR Williams, Peek, Swann, Schaffer, Johnson, Wade-Perry

[OutsiderFan]

Phillips will be the anchor.  Dylan Jackson should make a jump in production.  Not expecting much from Annan, but maybe he will surprise.  Cotton may be better as he was still learning DE in 2016. 

The four redshirt frosh DL have to be the most watched guys in Spring practice, because Stanford must get some big contributions from at least two of them, IMO, to be a championship contender.  It sure would be great if Dalyn Wade-Perry is able to make a meaningful contribution as a true frosh. 

But this is a scary young DL in the making.  Based on eligibility:
SR Cotton
JR Phillips
SO Annan, Jackson
FR Williams, Peek, Swann, Schaffer, Johnson, Wade-Perry

[CardinalSagehen]

I agree that we will need to see (and probably will see) one or two of the redshirt frosh set themselves apart.  They'll have more opportunity than usual because there's only one massively entrenched starter in front of them. 

Randomly selected by memory and in no particular order, here are the tackles stats for some recent DLs in their first years on the field:
H. Anderson - 6
Parry - 6
Gardner - 3
S. Thomas - 39
Shittu - 5
Phillips - 9 (true frosh)
Masifilo - 22

There is no shortage of talent in this year's group. I'll definitely be watching them at the spring game...

[CardinalSagehen]

I agree that we will need to see (and probably will see) one or two of the redshirt frosh set themselves apart.  They'll have more opportunity than usual because there's only one massively entrenched starter in front of them. 

Randomly selected by memory and in no particular order, here are the tackles stats for some recent DLs in their first years on the field:
H. Anderson - 6
Parry - 6
Gardner - 3
S. Thomas - 39
Shittu - 5
Phillips - 9 (true frosh)
Masifilo - 22

There is no shortage of talent in this year's group. I'll definitely be watching them at the spring game...

[OutsiderFan]

Those stats don't tell much without knowing how many games and how many snaps they played, the latter being virtually impossible for us to know.

Dylan Jackson started 10 games in 2016 and had 13 solo tackles, but no TFL. I expected more from him, especially given how good Thomas and Phillips were, but maybe that's a pretty good showing for a RS Frosh.  If so, there could be reason to believe Jackson will be a solid contributor in 2017.

What I'm most curious about is to see if Phillips is moved to DE from NT.  Secondarily, I want to know where Annan fits in.  Is he a NT or a DE?  He seemed to play too high when I saw him in Spring practice last year at NT. Might he be better suited at DE?

Perhaps Peek steps up and wins the starting NT job, with DWP as the backup NT, but DWP is the starter by the end of the season, sort of a la Nate Herbig at Guard in 2016.  That would give the DL two 300+ pounders in the middle, which seems necessary to have a top tier rush defense.  Phillips, Jackson, and two of Williams, Cotton, Swann, Shaffer, Annan and Johnson could then rotate at DE. 

It's pretty shocking to think that when the Rice game kicks off, we will have only seen 3/10 of Stanford's 2017 DL play a snap in a college game. 

[OutsiderFan]

Those stats don't tell much without knowing how many games and how many snaps they played, the latter being virtually impossible for us to know.

Dylan Jackson started 10 games in 2016 and had 13 solo tackles, but no TFL. I expected more from him, especially given how good Thomas and Phillips were, but maybe that's a pretty good showing for a RS Frosh.  If so, there could be reason to believe Jackson will be a solid contributor in 2017.

What I'm most curious about is to see if Phillips is moved to DE from NT.  Secondarily, I want to know where Annan fits in.  Is he a NT or a DE?  He seemed to play too high when I saw him in Spring practice last year at NT. Might he be better suited at DE?

Perhaps Peek steps up and wins the starting NT job, with DWP as the backup NT, but DWP is the starter by the end of the season, sort of a la Nate Herbig at Guard in 2016.  That would give the DL two 300+ pounders in the middle, which seems necessary to have a top tier rush defense.  Phillips, Jackson, and two of Williams, Cotton, Swann, Shaffer, Annan and Johnson could then rotate at DE. 

It's pretty shocking to think that when the Rice game kicks off, we will have only seen 3/10 of Stanford's 2017 DL play a snap in a college game. 

[CardinalSagehen]

Those stats don't tell much without knowing how many games and how many snaps they played, the latter being virtually impossible for us to know.

I agree, individually the stats tell us very little.  Collectively, what I took from the list is that the DL has been deep enough in the past that RS frosh don't get to play much.  That includes future NFLers such as almost everyone on the list.  We also probably didn't know they were NFL caliber until later in their Stanford careers, when they improved and/or received more of an opportunity for PT. 

This year will be different by necessity and we will definitely be seeing some of the younger linemen on the field more than usual.  As you said, only 3/10 have ever played a snap!

[CardinalSagehen]

Those stats don't tell much without knowing how many games and how many snaps they played, the latter being virtually impossible for us to know.

I agree, individually the stats tell us very little.  Collectively, what I took from the list is that the DL has been deep enough in the past that RS frosh don't get to play much.  That includes future NFLers such as almost everyone on the list.  We also probably didn't know they were NFL caliber until later in their Stanford careers, when they improved and/or received more of an opportunity for PT. 

This year will be different by necessity and we will definitely be seeing some of the younger linemen on the field more than usual.  As you said, only 3/10 have ever played a snap!