[ADPATERSON]

Sure, all the cautions are well-grounded.  Astute analysis given prior shortcomings.
Here's another idea: since 2009, Stanford has largely EXCEEDED expectations. Some downticks, but more up.
Three Pac12 Champ Banners (12, 13, 15), and Five BCS Bowls -- are we spoiled yet?  Just in this decade.  AHEM.

WHAT IF:
1) Chryst is back; and Burns has had enough snaps to play backup while Costello matures.  Good enough.
2) We are not a WR school like WAST, ןɐɔ, U$C.  We create LB matchup problems using our 5star TEs + Irwin, JJAW, Stewart.
Shaw prefers a short ball control pass game to Spider 2-Y Banana Bomb.  Add Love circling out like McCaff:  Potent.
3) Presence of Sarrel & Little motivates EVERYBODY.  Coaches were drooling about those two at HS All-Am game. OLINE gels.
I will take a Double meat, Double cheese with Twin jumbos on 3rd & short.
4) DL:  Phillips is ready and DW Perry and Mike Wiliams answer the bell.  Backups just keep folks fresh for Q4. Watch Ryan Johnson.
5) RB:  Speights runs like Royce Freeman.  Maybe Lund from Utah (6'1", 230) gets some reps.  Give me Love outside the tackles.
Do a Czonka + Mercury Morris type backfield (1972 Dolphins) -- Thunderbolt and Lightning. 
6) Uber-pundit Phil Steele has our back-8 (LBs + DBs) as #3 in USA.  Add 5star Soph Curtis Robinson as a quick Nickel.
7) Kickers and STs step up, no dropoff.  Really like Jet Toner as a future HP sales rep...!

My undergrad years were late 70s (Walsh One, Darrin Nelson), before Elway.  We have NEVER had a pipeline like this.
Biggest difference:  We do not just get 4star+ level talent now; we get them from State Playoff / Finalist schools.  They play better, sooner.

I submit that despite the grousing about conservative play calls, this is best coaching staff we have ever had, top to bottom.
Think about upside surprises.

[ADPATERSON]

Sure, all the cautions are well-grounded.  Astute analysis given prior shortcomings.
Here's another idea: since 2009, Stanford has largely EXCEEDED expectations. Some downticks, but more up.
Three Pac12 Champ Banners (12, 13, 15), and Five BCS Bowls -- are we spoiled yet?  Just in this decade.  AHEM.

WHAT IF:
1) Chryst is back; and Burns has had enough snaps to play backup while Costello matures.  Good enough.
2) We are not a WR school like WAST, ןɐɔ, U$C.  We create LB matchup problems using our 5star TEs + Irwin, JJAW, Stewart.
Shaw prefers a short ball control pass game to Spider 2-Y Banana Bomb.  Add Love circling out like McCaff:  Potent.
3) Presence of Sarrel & Little motivates EVERYBODY.  Coaches were drooling about those two at HS All-Am game. OLINE gels.
I will take a Double meat, Double cheese with Twin jumbos on 3rd & short.
4) DL:  Phillips is ready and DW Perry and Mike Wiliams answer the bell.  Backups just keep folks fresh for Q4. Watch Ryan Johnson.
5) RB:  Speights runs like Royce Freeman.  Maybe Lund from Utah (6'1", 230) gets some reps.  Give me Love outside the tackles.
Do a Czonka + Mercury Morris type backfield (1972 Dolphins) -- Thunderbolt and Lightning. 
6) Uber-pundit Phil Steele has our back-8 (LBs + DBs) as #3 in USA.  Add 5star Soph Curtis Robinson as a quick Nickel.
7) Kickers and STs step up, no dropoff.  Really like Jet Toner as a future HP sales rep...!

My undergrad years were late 70s (Walsh One, Darrin Nelson), before Elway.  We have NEVER had a pipeline like this.
Biggest difference:  We do not just get 4star+ level talent now; we get them from State Playoff / Finalist schools.  They play better, sooner.

I submit that despite the grousing about conservative play calls, this is best coaching staff we have ever had, top to bottom.
Think about upside surprises.

[djones]

Hearing very encouraging progress reports on Keller.
Hearing Fozzy will play somewhere.
D-line 4 man rota; Phillips, Cotton & Jackson + Swann.
ILB a battle between Okereke, Palma and Joey.

[djones]

Hearing very encouraging progress reports on Keller.
Hearing Fozzy will play somewhere.
D-line 4 man rota; Phillips, Cotton & Jackson + Swann.
ILB a battle between Okereke, Palma and Joey.

[TrumpCard]

Great notes from DJ!  Very encouraging on Keller and intriguing on Swann.

Here's my list:
Casey Tucker returns to the pre-injury form he showed as the starting LT against U$C last year.
Donald Stewart becomes a legitimate deep threat in 3 WR sets.
Connor Wedington returns kicks and punts and makes us not pine too much for C-Mac.

[TrumpCard]

Great notes from DJ!  Very encouraging on Keller and intriguing on Swann.

Here's my list:
Casey Tucker returns to the pre-injury form he showed as the starting LT against U$C last year.
Donald Stewart becomes a legitimate deep threat in 3 WR sets.
Connor Wedington returns kicks and punts and makes us not pine too much for C-Mac.

[OutsiderFan]

Hearing very encouraging progress reports on Keller.
Hearing Fozzy will play somewhere.
D-line 4 man rota; Phillips, Cotton & Jackson + Swann.
ILB a battle between Okereke, Palma and Joey.

At the risk of admitting I'm not one of the cool kids, who is "Fozzy" exactly?
A little surprised Michael Williams wouldn't be ahead of Swann.
ILB is a log jammed position for sure.  Assuming those three rotate.  Barton, Perez, and Branch provide great depth.

[OutsiderFan]

Hearing very encouraging progress reports on Keller.
Hearing Fozzy will play somewhere.
D-line 4 man rota; Phillips, Cotton & Jackson + Swann.
ILB a battle between Okereke, Palma and Joey.

At the risk of admitting I'm not one of the cool kids, who is "Fozzy" exactly?
A little surprised Michael Williams wouldn't be ahead of Swann.
ILB is a log jammed position for sure.  Assuming those three rotate.  Barton, Perez, and Branch provide great depth.

[CompSci87]

I'm guessing Fozzy is short for Foster [Sarrell].

[CompSci87]

I'm guessing Fozzy is short for Foster [Sarrell].

[Goose]

Biggest difference:  We do not just get 4star+ level talent now; we get them from State Playoff / Finalist schools.  They play better, sooner.

I think the biggest difference is that we get LOTS of 4star or better talent. In the Walsh era, we had a few people who were elite, and most who were not. Now, just about everybody in the top 22 are elite level players. We can afford a few guys who don't pan out. Before, it would be a disaster if some highly recruited guy didn't play as expected.

I submit that despite the grousing about conservative play calls, this is best coaching staff we have ever had, top to bottom.

I think there is no doubt that is true. This is for sure a case of "1s hire 1s". We may have some "weaker links", but all in all, it is hard to argue with our coaching quality, top to bottom, as ADPATERSON said.

[Goose]

Biggest difference:  We do not just get 4star+ level talent now; we get them from State Playoff / Finalist schools.  They play better, sooner.

I think the biggest difference is that we get LOTS of 4star or better talent. In the Walsh era, we had a few people who were elite, and most who were not. Now, just about everybody in the top 22 are elite level players. We can afford a few guys who don't pan out. Before, it would be a disaster if some highly recruited guy didn't play as expected.

I submit that despite the grousing about conservative play calls, this is best coaching staff we have ever had, top to bottom.

I think there is no doubt that is true. This is for sure a case of "1s hire 1s". We may have some "weaker links", but all in all, it is hard to argue with our coaching quality, top to bottom, as ADPATERSON said.

[OutsiderFan]

I'm guessing Fozzy is short for Foster [Sarrell].

This was my assumption but wasn't sure.

[OutsiderFan]

I'm guessing Fozzy is short for Foster [Sarrell].

This was my assumption but wasn't sure.

[Hulk01]

Perez and Branch, at a minimum, will continue to be our Two Minute/sell out against the pass inside linebackers. 

It seems a testament to Stanford's depth at LB that a 2016 All Pac 12 honorable mention ILB (Palma) might not start for us in 2017.

 

[Hulk01]

Perez and Branch, at a minimum, will continue to be our Two Minute/sell out against the pass inside linebackers. 

It seems a testament to Stanford's depth at LB that a 2016 All Pac 12 honorable mention ILB (Palma) might not start for us in 2017.

 

[JohnR34231]

Hearing very encouraging progress reports on Keller.
Hearing Fozzy will play somewhere.
D-line 4 man rota; Phillips, Cotton & Jackson + Swann.
ILB a battle between Okereke, Palma and Joey.

Anything on Little?
If "Fozzy" is going to play somewhere I would guess he is, also.

[JohnR34231]

Hearing very encouraging progress reports on Keller.
Hearing Fozzy will play somewhere.
D-line 4 man rota; Phillips, Cotton & Jackson + Swann.
ILB a battle between Okereke, Palma and Joey.

Anything on Little?
If "Fozzy" is going to play somewhere I would guess he is, also.

[winflop]

I submit that despite the grousing about conservative play calls, this is best coaching staff we have ever had, top to bottom.

Outside of Bloomgren I agree 100%. OL has underperformed two of the last three years - coincidentally this is when I believe he was promoted to OC and dual-roled. I think this should be a make or break year for him. If the OL underperforms again, Shaw needs to use that additional coaching position next year to hire a full-time OL coach and either keep Bloomgren as a full-time OC or let him go.

[winflop]

I submit that despite the grousing about conservative play calls, this is best coaching staff we have ever had, top to bottom.

Outside of Bloomgren I agree 100%. OL has underperformed two of the last three years - coincidentally this is when I believe he was promoted to OC and dual-roled. I think this should be a make or break year for him. If the OL underperforms again, Shaw needs to use that additional coaching position next year to hire a full-time OL coach and either keep Bloomgren as a full-time OC or let him go.

[fullmetal]

Walker and Little will probably slot in as Ogres (as is Shawngren's m.o.) before they move into the starting OL five, whenever that is.  Or maybe they'll be tight ends...  ???  Woe to opposing linebackers!  Super Jumbo Heavy, featuring double Ogres!  That would be amazing.  No one has the DL depth to match that kind of beef, right?

I think maybe an upgrade at OL coach might be necessary if the line struggles again.  I do think that an upgrade at QB coach is finally warranted.  There are some really proven QB tutors out there who would probably jump for  the chance to coach at Stanford.  The question is whether they'd buy into the system and work with a team.  I hope Diron Reynolds works magic in his second year, and long live Duane Akina, guru of the secondary and maker of Thorpe Award winners.

[fullmetal]

Walker and Little will probably slot in as Ogres (as is Shawngren's m.o.) before they move into the starting OL five, whenever that is.  Or maybe they'll be tight ends...  ???  Woe to opposing linebackers!  Super Jumbo Heavy, featuring double Ogres!  That would be amazing.  No one has the DL depth to match that kind of beef, right?

I think maybe an upgrade at OL coach might be necessary if the line struggles again.  I do think that an upgrade at QB coach is finally warranted.  There are some really proven QB tutors out there who would probably jump for  the chance to coach at Stanford.  The question is whether they'd buy into the system and work with a team.  I hope Diron Reynolds works magic in his second year, and long live Duane Akina, guru of the secondary and maker of Thorpe Award winners.

[JJJ]

Speaking of upside:

Senior QB Keller Chryst has been named to the Johnny Unitas Golden Arm Award watch list for most outstanding senior quarterback.‬

‪Andrew Luck won in 2011. #GoStanford #QBU‬

http://www.facebook.com/stanfordfootball...=3&theater

[JJJ]

Speaking of upside:

Senior QB Keller Chryst has been named to the Johnny Unitas Golden Arm Award watch list for most outstanding senior quarterback.‬

‪Andrew Luck won in 2011. #GoStanford #QBU‬

http://www.facebook.com/stanfordfootball...=3&theater

[JJJ]

And perhaps a no-brainer:

David Shaw has been named to the Dodd Trophy watch list for national coach of the year with scholarship, leadership & integrity.‬

‪#GoStanford‬ — feeling blessed.

http://www.facebook.com/stanfordfootball...=3&theater

[JJJ]

And perhaps a no-brainer:

David Shaw has been named to the Dodd Trophy watch list for national coach of the year with scholarship, leadership & integrity.‬

‪#GoStanford‬ — feeling blessed.

http://www.facebook.com/stanfordfootball...=3&theater

[CTcard]

I guess I agree with Patterson overall, I am cautiously optimistic for this season. We don't lose many contributors from last year and seem to have good depth from recruiting and development. But, we need some of the "to be determned"s to break in a positive direction. 
I sure hope the reports of Chryst's recovery going well continue.

Still, a few little things to expound upon ... 

2) ... Shaw prefers a short ball control pass game to Spider 2-Y Banana Bomb. 

The Spider-Y Banana play/route is usually a safe short pass and not a bomb.

The standard primary target in a Spider-Y Banana is the FB in the flat, often running parallel with the QB while the QB rolls out to the strong side. #2 option is the TE on the banana route same side - mid level. And the third option is the slot receiver running a cross-field under route. While there is typically another WR on the back side who could run a deep route, it's not the primary target. That's why Gruden yelled at Luck "You threw the Venus on the back side of the Spider 3-Y Banana in a 27-27 game? What were you thinking?"
[Venus is the backside stop route that Owusu was running.]

Spider-Y Banana was a big play for Stanford in the days of Luck and Hewitt, but seems to have disappeared more recently. In fact, I don't think we've had a FB with a real role running routes since Hewitt.

Shaw prefers a short ball control pass game

It seems everyone is saying that, but I don't think its so.

WSU has a short, ball control pass game. They throw the ball most plays and for a high completion percentage, but much of the time the completion is within a yard or two of the line of scrimmage. So you had WSU throwing 51+ times per game last year but averaging only 10 yds/completion. The year before it was 57 times a game at 10 yds/completion.

Shaw doesn't want to throw the ball often, but it would seem his basic idea on offense is to force the opponent to stack the box and then occasionally beat them over the top for a big play. So, I think his favourite pass game would be a combination of third and short conversion-completions and hitting the run-looking defense over the top for a TD. That would make his most treasured offensive game the 2013 conference championship vs ASU where Hogan was 12 for 18, 277 yds for a whopping 23 yds/completion. 
 
In 2016 the pass game was just bad, and much of the time the QBs didn't have enough time for a receiver to run deep. The team averaged 23.5 passes per game and 11.5 yds/completion. That's considerably more per completion than WSU, but not all that big.

In the years of our good offenses it had been,
2015: 22.7 passes/gm, 13.9 yds/completion
2013: 22.2 passes/gm, 14.6 yds/completion
2011: 32.1 passes/gm, 12.2 yds/compltion

[Note in 2011 with Luck we threw a lot more often, and not necessarily deep (remember Hewitt on the Spider-Y Banana).]

[CTcard]

I guess I agree with Patterson overall, I am cautiously optimistic for this season. We don't lose many contributors from last year and seem to have good depth from recruiting and development. But, we need some of the "to be determned"s to break in a positive direction. 
I sure hope the reports of Chryst's recovery going well continue.

Still, a few little things to expound upon ... 

2) ... Shaw prefers a short ball control pass game to Spider 2-Y Banana Bomb. 

The Spider-Y Banana play/route is usually a safe short pass and not a bomb.

The standard primary target in a Spider-Y Banana is the FB in the flat, often running parallel with the QB while the QB rolls out to the strong side. #2 option is the TE on the banana route same side - mid level. And the third option is the slot receiver running a cross-field under route. While there is typically another WR on the back side who could run a deep route, it's not the primary target. That's why Gruden yelled at Luck "You threw the Venus on the back side of the Spider 3-Y Banana in a 27-27 game? What were you thinking?"
[Venus is the backside stop route that Owusu was running.]

Spider-Y Banana was a big play for Stanford in the days of Luck and Hewitt, but seems to have disappeared more recently. In fact, I don't think we've had a FB with a real role running routes since Hewitt.

Shaw prefers a short ball control pass game

It seems everyone is saying that, but I don't think its so.

WSU has a short, ball control pass game. They throw the ball most plays and for a high completion percentage, but much of the time the completion is within a yard or two of the line of scrimmage. So you had WSU throwing 51+ times per game last year but averaging only 10 yds/completion. The year before it was 57 times a game at 10 yds/completion.

Shaw doesn't want to throw the ball often, but it would seem his basic idea on offense is to force the opponent to stack the box and then occasionally beat them over the top for a big play. So, I think his favourite pass game would be a combination of third and short conversion-completions and hitting the run-looking defense over the top for a TD. That would make his most treasured offensive game the 2013 conference championship vs ASU where Hogan was 12 for 18, 277 yds for a whopping 23 yds/completion. 
 
In 2016 the pass game was just bad, and much of the time the QBs didn't have enough time for a receiver to run deep. The team averaged 23.5 passes per game and 11.5 yds/completion. That's considerably more per completion than WSU, but not all that big.

In the years of our good offenses it had been,
2015: 22.7 passes/gm, 13.9 yds/completion
2013: 22.2 passes/gm, 14.6 yds/completion
2011: 32.1 passes/gm, 12.2 yds/compltion

[Note in 2011 with Luck we threw a lot more often, and not necessarily deep (remember Hewitt on the Spider-Y Banana).]

[fullmetal]

CTCard is correct.  We haven't shown the quick-strike QB capability to pass for short-intermediate control game throws.  Expect a healthy dose of the same ground and pound while we break our QBs back into game-shape.  (Hey, at least Rice should be a winnable game for that purpose.)

(Also, I feel bad for Walker Little and the other Texas players as their families won't be able to hop over to Houston to see the game--not sure if Sydney is an accessible game location for all the families who'd hoped to see their kids in Houston.  Think of the families--and the well-heeled Houston alumni...)

[fullmetal]

CTCard is correct.  We haven't shown the quick-strike QB capability to pass for short-intermediate control game throws.  Expect a healthy dose of the same ground and pound while we break our QBs back into game-shape.  (Hey, at least Rice should be a winnable game for that purpose.)

(Also, I feel bad for Walker Little and the other Texas players as their families won't be able to hop over to Houston to see the game--not sure if Sydney is an accessible game location for all the families who'd hoped to see their kids in Houston.  Think of the families--and the well-heeled Houston alumni...)

[Spiny_Norman]

I guess I agree with Paterson overall, I am cautiously optimistic for this season. We don't lose many contributors from last year and seem to have good depth from recruiting and development. But, we need some of the "to be determined"s to break in a positive direction. 

Some of the known quantities need to play at a higher level as well.  Usually returning all conference players can predict success for a season.  But Stanford has exactly 0 returning 1st and 2nd team all conference players.  Several of the following honorable mentions from 2016 need to step it up in 2017 to all conference level (just as Austin Hooper and Blake Martinez did in 2015) - LB Joey Alfieri; RB Bryce Love; DB Quenton Meeks; LB Kevin Palma; Harrison Phillips; DB Justin Reid; TE Dalton Schultz

[Spiny_Norman]

I guess I agree with Paterson overall, I am cautiously optimistic for this season. We don't lose many contributors from last year and seem to have good depth from recruiting and development. But, we need some of the "to be determined"s to break in a positive direction. 

Some of the known quantities need to play at a higher level as well.  Usually returning all conference players can predict success for a season.  But Stanford has exactly 0 returning 1st and 2nd team all conference players.  Several of the following honorable mentions from 2016 need to step it up in 2017 to all conference level (just as Austin Hooper and Blake Martinez did in 2015) - LB Joey Alfieri; RB Bryce Love; DB Quenton Meeks; LB Kevin Palma; Harrison Phillips; DB Justin Reid; TE Dalton Schultz

[mdcubsfan]

CTCard is correct.  We haven't shown the quick-strike QB capability to pass for short-intermediate control game throws.  Expect a healthy dose of the same ground and pound while we break our QBs back into game-shape.  (Hey, at least Rice should be a winnable game for that purpose.)

(Also, I feel bad for Walker Little and the other Texas players as their families won't be able to hop over to Houston to see the game--not sure if Sydney is an accessible game location for all the families who'd hoped to see their kids in Houston.  Think of the families--and the well-heeled Houston alumni...)

Yea, not related to anyone on the team but a big fan here in Houston who had this Rice game penciled in since they first announced it a few years ago!

[mdcubsfan]

CTCard is correct.  We haven't shown the quick-strike QB capability to pass for short-intermediate control game throws.  Expect a healthy dose of the same ground and pound while we break our QBs back into game-shape.  (Hey, at least Rice should be a winnable game for that purpose.)

(Also, I feel bad for Walker Little and the other Texas players as their families won't be able to hop over to Houston to see the game--not sure if Sydney is an accessible game location for all the families who'd hoped to see their kids in Houston.  Think of the families--and the well-heeled Houston alumni...)

Yea, not related to anyone on the team but a big fan here in Houston who had this Rice game penciled in since they first announced it a few years ago!

[standfan]

Great notes from DJ!  Very encouraging on Keller and intriguing on Swann.

Here's my list:
Casey Tucker returns to the pre-injury form he showed as the starting LT against U$C last year.
Donald Stewart becomes a legitimate deep threat in 3 WR sets.
Connor Wedington returns kicks and punts and makes us not pine too much for C-Mac.

A 4 or 5 (I too have hope for MW) DL rotation is decent depth, particularly since we are going to play a whole lot of downs with 2 DL.

[standfan]

Great notes from DJ!  Very encouraging on Keller and intriguing on Swann.

Here's my list:
Casey Tucker returns to the pre-injury form he showed as the starting LT against U$C last year.
Donald Stewart becomes a legitimate deep threat in 3 WR sets.
Connor Wedington returns kicks and punts and makes us not pine too much for C-Mac.

A 4 or 5 (I too have hope for MW) DL rotation is decent depth, particularly since we are going to play a whole lot of downs with 2 DL.

[Phogge]

As for the coaching staff rating during one season John Ralston had Bill Walsh, Dick Vermeil, Mike White and Rod Rust on the staff. Walsh had Denny Green and George Seifert. Maybe Shaw's staff will better them but not quite yet.

[Phogge]

As for the coaching staff rating during one season John Ralston had Bill Walsh, Dick Vermeil, Mike White and Rod Rust on the staff. Walsh had Denny Green and George Seifert. Maybe Shaw's staff will better them but not quite yet.

[BostonCard]

Harbaugh (Shaw [Stanford], Taggart [WKU, USF, Oregon], Shafer [Syracuse, until fired], Durkin [Maryland], Sanford [Western Kentucky] all became head coaches) also had a pretty good coaching staff while here.  What's amazing is that they all came to coach a team coming off a 1-11 season, so hardly a slam dunk at the time.

BC

[BostonCard]

Harbaugh (Shaw [Stanford], Taggart [WKU, USF, Oregon], Shafer [Syracuse, until fired], Durkin [Maryland], Sanford [Western Kentucky] all became head coaches) also had a pretty good coaching staff while here.  What's amazing is that they all came to coach a team coming off a 1-11 season, so hardly a slam dunk at the time.

BC