[TreesAndBirds]

Article behind a paywall. Chargers play in a 27,000 seat stadium and cant fill it. Rams attendance down 20,000 from last year. Lots of unhappiness with 49ers stadium location, traffic and failure to address sunnyside issues, and the Raiders are leaving. Probably partly due to team records, partly due to every team moving recently or planning to move, and partly due to people having other things to do.

https://www.wsj.com/article_email/califo...DQxNjA2Wj/

[TreesAndBirds]

Article behind a paywall. Chargers play in a 27,000 seat stadium and cant fill it. Rams attendance down 20,000 from last year. Lots of unhappiness with 49ers stadium location, traffic and failure to address sunnyside issues, and the Raiders are leaving. Probably partly due to team records, partly due to every team moving recently or planning to move, and partly due to people having other things to do.

https://www.wsj.com/article_email/califo...DQxNjA2Wj/

[BostonCard]

Also, the teams suck.

BC

[BostonCard]

Also, the teams suck.

BC

[gocard14]

It’s not rocket science. Sell a product that is fun to watch (e.g Warriors), or accessible and/or affordable (e.g Giants) and guess what, people show up!

It should seem common sense that if you upset loyal customers by moving the team, have an unpleasant game day experience with excessive traffic and uncomfortable seats, and then charge a kings ransom for the privalage, things won’t go your way. In an era where a 55” 4k flat screen costs about the same as two (bad) tickets to the game, I know I’ll never go to another Niners game.

Of course, contrast that with cheap seats, minimal traffic, a great tailgate experience, and a lot more team loyalty and you’ll see me at Stanford games for years to come.

[gocard14]

It’s not rocket science. Sell a product that is fun to watch (e.g Warriors), or accessible and/or affordable (e.g Giants) and guess what, people show up!

It should seem common sense that if you upset loyal customers by moving the team, have an unpleasant game day experience with excessive traffic and uncomfortable seats, and then charge a kings ransom for the privalage, things won’t go your way. In an era where a 55” 4k flat screen costs about the same as two (bad) tickets to the game, I know I’ll never go to another Niners game.

Of course, contrast that with cheap seats, minimal traffic, a great tailgate experience, and a lot more team loyalty and you’ll see me at Stanford games for years to come.

[SF_Cardinal_Fan]

I was a 49ers season ticket holder for decades. Dropped them when they vacated SF.
For the past 5 seasons I was a Raiders season ticket holder. The day the NFL owners voted to approve a Raiders move to Las Vegas, I called Stanford and signed up for season tickets.
So far so good. I like very much Stanford's tailgate scene, the stadium, the team, everything  :)
Regarding the NFL, I think the concept of luxury stadiums does not make good long term business sense. Older stadiums such as Candlestick, Oakland, and San Diego offered tailgating and reasonably priced stadium seating, which was a good fit for what loyal fans wanted.
Transitioning to luxury stadiums with PSL obligations, mostly high priced seats and private suites etc... means the target market is  financially wealthy individuals and corporations, neither of which is typically a "loyal fan of the team". Consequently , game days reveal lots of empty seats. Too many empty seats hurts the energy and atmosphere of the stadium, and provides the team little home field advantage.
If in fact the largest component of revenue for an NFL team is the League's television broadcast money, then I think each team should do what it can to fill their stadium with passionate, loyal fans. That may mean catering to middle income consumers who want tailgating and reasonably priced seats more so than luxury amenities and private suites.
I think a basic football  stadium like Stanford's would be perfectly suitable for passionate fans of the NFl team's. And team owners (or cities) could build a Stanford-like stadium without the use of PSL's and, or, $300 per seat ticket prices. For long term business success, including catering to passionate loyal fans, I think a basic no frills stadium makes more sense than a luxury stadium.

[SF_Cardinal_Fan]

I was a 49ers season ticket holder for decades. Dropped them when they vacated SF.
For the past 5 seasons I was a Raiders season ticket holder. The day the NFL owners voted to approve a Raiders move to Las Vegas, I called Stanford and signed up for season tickets.
So far so good. I like very much Stanford's tailgate scene, the stadium, the team, everything  :)
Regarding the NFL, I think the concept of luxury stadiums does not make good long term business sense. Older stadiums such as Candlestick, Oakland, and San Diego offered tailgating and reasonably priced stadium seating, which was a good fit for what loyal fans wanted.
Transitioning to luxury stadiums with PSL obligations, mostly high priced seats and private suites etc... means the target market is  financially wealthy individuals and corporations, neither of which is typically a "loyal fan of the team". Consequently , game days reveal lots of empty seats. Too many empty seats hurts the energy and atmosphere of the stadium, and provides the team little home field advantage.
If in fact the largest component of revenue for an NFL team is the League's television broadcast money, then I think each team should do what it can to fill their stadium with passionate, loyal fans. That may mean catering to middle income consumers who want tailgating and reasonably priced seats more so than luxury amenities and private suites.
I think a basic football  stadium like Stanford's would be perfectly suitable for passionate fans of the NFl team's. And team owners (or cities) could build a Stanford-like stadium without the use of PSL's and, or, $300 per seat ticket prices. For long term business success, including catering to passionate loyal fans, I think a basic no frills stadium makes more sense than a luxury stadium.

[Mick]

It’s not rocket science. Sell a product that is fun to watch (e.g Warriors), or accessible and/or affordable (e.g Giants) and guess what, people show up!

It should seem common sense that if you upset loyal customers by moving the team, have an unpleasant game day experience with excessive traffic and uncomfortable seats, and then charge a kings ransom for the privalage, things won’t go your way. In an era where a 55” 4k flat screen costs about the same as two (bad) tickets to the game, I know I’ll never go to another Niners game.

Of course, contrast that with cheap seats, minimal traffic, a great tailgate experience, and a lot more team loyalty and you’ll see me at Stanford games for years to come.

I can't remember when it appeared, but there was an article in the Mercury News about 8-15 years ago that held that there were a finite set of football fans from the South Bay through the Peninsula, into the city and in Marin.  The gist was that as the 49ers tanked in the 70s, fans flocked to Stanford games, culminating with Elway's participation ending in 1982.  And supposedly the fans returned to the 49ers with the advent of Montana and super Bowl level football.

[Mick]

It’s not rocket science. Sell a product that is fun to watch (e.g Warriors), or accessible and/or affordable (e.g Giants) and guess what, people show up!

It should seem common sense that if you upset loyal customers by moving the team, have an unpleasant game day experience with excessive traffic and uncomfortable seats, and then charge a kings ransom for the privalage, things won’t go your way. In an era where a 55” 4k flat screen costs about the same as two (bad) tickets to the game, I know I’ll never go to another Niners game.

Of course, contrast that with cheap seats, minimal traffic, a great tailgate experience, and a lot more team loyalty and you’ll see me at Stanford games for years to come.

I can't remember when it appeared, but there was an article in the Mercury News about 8-15 years ago that held that there were a finite set of football fans from the South Bay through the Peninsula, into the city and in Marin.  The gist was that as the 49ers tanked in the 70s, fans flocked to Stanford games, culminating with Elway's participation ending in 1982.  And supposedly the fans returned to the 49ers with the advent of Montana and super Bowl level football.

[cardcrimson]

[quote author=gocard14 link=topic=17660.msg205697#msg205697 date=1507728886]
It’s not rocket science. Sell a product that is fun to watch (e.g Warriors), or accessible and/or affordable (e.g Giants) and guess what, people show up!

It should seem common sense that if you upset loyal customers by moving the team, have an unpleasant game day experience with excessive traffic and uncomfortable seats, and then charge a kings ransom for the privalage, things won’t go your way. In an era where a 55” 4k flat screen costs about the same as two (bad) tickets to the game, I know I’ll never go to another Niners game.

Of course, contrast that with cheap seats, minimal traffic, a great tailgate experience, and a lot more team loyalty and you’ll see me at Stanford games for years to come.

I can't remember when it appeared, but there was an article in the Mercury News about 8-15 years ago that held that there were a finite set of football fans from the South Bay through the Peninsula, into the city and in Marin.  The gist was that as the 49ers tanked in the 70s, fans flocked to Stanford games, culminating with Elway's participation ending in 1982.  And supposedly the fans returned to the 49ers with the advent of Montana and super Bowl level football.
[/quote]

The Raiders move to LA happened around the same time. We had been very loyal Raider fans and switched to the Niners when they left.

[cardcrimson]

[quote author=gocard14 link=topic=17660.msg205697#msg205697 date=1507728886]
It’s not rocket science. Sell a product that is fun to watch (e.g Warriors), or accessible and/or affordable (e.g Giants) and guess what, people show up!

It should seem common sense that if you upset loyal customers by moving the team, have an unpleasant game day experience with excessive traffic and uncomfortable seats, and then charge a kings ransom for the privalage, things won’t go your way. In an era where a 55” 4k flat screen costs about the same as two (bad) tickets to the game, I know I’ll never go to another Niners game.

Of course, contrast that with cheap seats, minimal traffic, a great tailgate experience, and a lot more team loyalty and you’ll see me at Stanford games for years to come.

I can't remember when it appeared, but there was an article in the Mercury News about 8-15 years ago that held that there were a finite set of football fans from the South Bay through the Peninsula, into the city and in Marin.  The gist was that as the 49ers tanked in the 70s, fans flocked to Stanford games, culminating with Elway's participation ending in 1982.  And supposedly the fans returned to the 49ers with the advent of Montana and super Bowl level football.
[/quote]

The Raiders move to LA happened around the same time. We had been very loyal Raider fans and switched to the Niners when they left.

[82lsju]

while they may not be drawing lots of fans in seats both the Rams and Charger franchises are worth a lot more than before they moved

Forbes estimates

Rams 2017 - $3 billion
Rams 2015 - $1.45 billion

Chargers 2017 - $2.275 billion
Chargers 2015 $1.525 billion

https://www.forbes.com/nfl-valuations/list/#tab:overall

https://www.forbes.com/pictures/ghik45ek...9ddd5265a5

[82lsju]

while they may not be drawing lots of fans in seats both the Rams and Charger franchises are worth a lot more than before they moved

Forbes estimates

Rams 2017 - $3 billion
Rams 2015 - $1.45 billion

Chargers 2017 - $2.275 billion
Chargers 2015 $1.525 billion

https://www.forbes.com/nfl-valuations/list/#tab:overall

https://www.forbes.com/pictures/ghik45ek...9ddd5265a5

[SF_Cardinal_Fan]

while they may not be drawing lots of fans in seats both the Rams and Charger franchises are worth a lot more than before they moved

Forbes estimates

Rams 2017 - $3 billion
Rams 2015 - $1.45 billion

Chargers 2017 - $2.275 billion
Chargers 2015 $1.525 billion

https://www.forbes.com/nfl-valuations/list/#tab:overall

https://www.forbes.com/pictures/ghik45ek...9ddd5265a5

I think the prices for pro sports franchises is mostly about comparable sales.
It's a small niche market of billionaire buyers competing to buy a small number of NFL, MLB, or NBA teams. These potential buyers don't seem to focus much on a team's w/l record, home facility, current revenue streams, or any of the other criteria which Forbes uses to assign valuations to teams.
My opinion is that the Chargers and Raiders might be worth more (to a potential buyer) in their home markets of San Diego and Oakland. Specifically, the Chargers went from their own city and stadium to sharing a stadium with the Rams. It's possible that a potential buyer would prefer to buy  a team with it's own identity (San Diego) rather than a team obligated to share a stadium. And the Raiders have a proven fan base in Nor Cal, which a potential buyer might prefer  to the unknown of the Las Vegas market.
Forbes claims the 49ers value "skyrocketed" following their move to Santa Clara.  I think it's possible that Levis Stadium may prove to be a white elephant which a potential buyer of the team would not wish to inherit.

[SF_Cardinal_Fan]

while they may not be drawing lots of fans in seats both the Rams and Charger franchises are worth a lot more than before they moved

Forbes estimates

Rams 2017 - $3 billion
Rams 2015 - $1.45 billion

Chargers 2017 - $2.275 billion
Chargers 2015 $1.525 billion

https://www.forbes.com/nfl-valuations/list/#tab:overall

https://www.forbes.com/pictures/ghik45ek...9ddd5265a5

I think the prices for pro sports franchises is mostly about comparable sales.
It's a small niche market of billionaire buyers competing to buy a small number of NFL, MLB, or NBA teams. These potential buyers don't seem to focus much on a team's w/l record, home facility, current revenue streams, or any of the other criteria which Forbes uses to assign valuations to teams.
My opinion is that the Chargers and Raiders might be worth more (to a potential buyer) in their home markets of San Diego and Oakland. Specifically, the Chargers went from their own city and stadium to sharing a stadium with the Rams. It's possible that a potential buyer would prefer to buy  a team with it's own identity (San Diego) rather than a team obligated to share a stadium. And the Raiders have a proven fan base in Nor Cal, which a potential buyer might prefer  to the unknown of the Las Vegas market.
Forbes claims the 49ers value "skyrocketed" following their move to Santa Clara.  I think it's possible that Levis Stadium may prove to be a white elephant which a potential buyer of the team would not wish to inherit.

[GoodGrief]

You guys are all missing the most obvious reason for the poor support: Neither the Rams nor the Chargers have GoodGrief as their mascot.

If the Rams or the Chargers only had a mascot with the creativity of a Stanford engineer, the enthusiasm of a Stanford cheerleader, the athleticism of a Stanford gymnast (does one week as a walk-on count?), and the experience of a Chicago Bulls mascot, overwhelming hordes would flock to the games to experience the in-person joy that only a mascot can bring.

I had previously reached out to both teams, and my mascotting services were politely declined. But clearly, they must be realizing the error of their ways. Just waiting for that phone to ring...

[GoodGrief]

You guys are all missing the most obvious reason for the poor support: Neither the Rams nor the Chargers have GoodGrief as their mascot.

If the Rams or the Chargers only had a mascot with the creativity of a Stanford engineer, the enthusiasm of a Stanford cheerleader, the athleticism of a Stanford gymnast (does one week as a walk-on count?), and the experience of a Chicago Bulls mascot, overwhelming hordes would flock to the games to experience the in-person joy that only a mascot can bring.

I had previously reached out to both teams, and my mascotting services were politely declined. But clearly, they must be realizing the error of their ways. Just waiting for that phone to ring...

[Griffins78]

GG - you forgot to add the moonwalking chicken. That was for a football game.

[Griffins78]

GG - you forgot to add the moonwalking chicken. That was for a football game.

[GoodGrief]

Yes, the Moonwalk, the Running Man, the Curly Shuffle, the Worm--all part of my mascotting schtick. If I ever get hired to mascot, I'll need to incorporate some new moves--not sure about twerking though...

[GoodGrief]

Yes, the Moonwalk, the Running Man, the Curly Shuffle, the Worm--all part of my mascotting schtick. If I ever get hired to mascot, I'll need to incorporate some new moves--not sure about twerking though...

[Snorlax94]

GoodGrief, are you... FlipBoy? Or perhaps the FlipBoy of a different era. Did you ever compete on American Gladiators on Tour?

[Snorlax94]

GoodGrief, are you... FlipBoy? Or perhaps the FlipBoy of a different era. Did you ever compete on American Gladiators on Tour?

[BostonCard]

This is GoodGrief:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Lsv-QCoZ4M

(the chicken, not the cow).

BC

[BostonCard]

This is GoodGrief:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Lsv-QCoZ4M

(the chicken, not the cow).

BC

[GoodGrief]

GoodGrief, are you... FlipBoy? Or perhaps the FlipBoy of a different era. Did you ever compete on American Gladiators on Tour?

Ha, I had a flash of Obi-Wan "That's a name I've not heard in a long time..."  (truthfully, I spent 5 fruitless minutes unsuccesfully trying to paste in the meme image before deciding that it wasn't hugely important). But yes, I used to be called FlipBoy when I was on the cheerleading squad, and yes, that was me on the American Gladiators Tour. Also, getting thrown over Tower's shoulders onto the ground in Powerball hurt like a *****. And I got to witness firsthand the destruction that Flagman/Flagasaurus unleashed upon that Cal fan who tried to steal the Stanford flag. A neck has never looked so small to me as that time when I saw it wrapped up in a giant hand.

Being a Stanford cheerleader really opened up doors to me--I discovered that crowd entertainment was a ton of fun and utilized athleticism without being nearly as brutal on your body. And mascotting is the greatest thing in the history of the world (except for that oxygen deprivation thing)

[GoodGrief]

GoodGrief, are you... FlipBoy? Or perhaps the FlipBoy of a different era. Did you ever compete on American Gladiators on Tour?

Ha, I had a flash of Obi-Wan "That's a name I've not heard in a long time..."  (truthfully, I spent 5 fruitless minutes unsuccesfully trying to paste in the meme image before deciding that it wasn't hugely important). But yes, I used to be called FlipBoy when I was on the cheerleading squad, and yes, that was me on the American Gladiators Tour. Also, getting thrown over Tower's shoulders onto the ground in Powerball hurt like a *****. And I got to witness firsthand the destruction that Flagman/Flagasaurus unleashed upon that Cal fan who tried to steal the Stanford flag. A neck has never looked so small to me as that time when I saw it wrapped up in a giant hand.

Being a Stanford cheerleader really opened up doors to me--I discovered that crowd entertainment was a ton of fun and utilized athleticism without being nearly as brutal on your body. And mascotting is the greatest thing in the history of the world (except for that oxygen deprivation thing)

[cctop]

At the time I always heard that guy referred to as "Flag Boy", which I thought was  funny albeit difficult to ignore the racial implications of calling a big black guy "boy".

I suppose Flagasaurus is better.

What was his name anyway?

I would have loved for him to have become a permanent fixture at Stanford games.

[cctop]

At the time I always heard that guy referred to as "Flag Boy", which I thought was  funny albeit difficult to ignore the racial implications of calling a big black guy "boy".

I suppose Flagasaurus is better.

What was his name anyway?

I would have loved for him to have become a permanent fixture at Stanford games.

[Snorlax94]

I thibk goodgrief can tell us but I recall Flagasaurus's first name was something like Shay or Shea??

[Snorlax94]

I thibk goodgrief can tell us but I recall Flagasaurus's first name was something like Shay or Shea??

[Mick]

At the time I always heard that guy referred to as "Flag Boy", which I thought was  funny albeit difficult to ignore the racial implications of calling a big black guy "boy".

I suppose Flagasaurus is better.

What was his name anyway?

I would have loved for him to have become a permanent fixture at Stanford games.

Me too.  He's flagtastic.

[Mick]

At the time I always heard that guy referred to as "Flag Boy", which I thought was  funny albeit difficult to ignore the racial implications of calling a big black guy "boy".

I suppose Flagasaurus is better.

What was his name anyway?

I would have loved for him to have become a permanent fixture at Stanford games.

Me too.  He's flagtastic.

[GoodGrief]

Ahh, thanks for allowing me to take a stroll down memory lane. Let me elucidate.

Our cheerleading squad came to be because Denny Green wanted cheerleaders. Originally, the squad was all female and 1 male. The one male was an average-sized Caucasian guy named JoMichael who ran the flag with great enthusiasm. And so he earned the nicknamed "Flagboy."

Then, there was a big push to get more guys on the squad, so that's when I and several other guys came on board. Because I tumbled, I got the nickname Flipboy. (Sidenote, we would lead the football team out onto the field with me tumbling at the front. Nothing motivates you to tumble quickly like knowing that thousands of pounds of stampeding flesh are following behind you).

And one of the new guys on the squad was a brobdingnagian black man named Seye (good memory, Snorlax, because it is pronounced "Shea") who started running the flag. And if I recall correctly, the crowd largely continued calling him Flagboy, but there were quips that he was more of a "Flagman" or "Flagasaurus."

So one Big Game, we were playing at Memorial Stadium, and of course Cal was losing. So one Cal student decided that the way to salvage the game was to steal the Stanford flag. So he ran onto the field and grabbed the flag and headed for the stands. All of us male cheerleaders ran after him, but Seye got there first. He ran into the stands after the flag and was struggling to get it. And here's where some Cal student made a horrendous error in judgement: he pushed Seye over a bench. Whereupon Seye went pure Hulk on...somebody. He grabbed a student with one hand around his throat, and that kid's neck just disappeared inside Seye's hand; his eyes bugged out, his face was red, and he looked terrified. And honestly, I think that kid may have been a really unlucky bystander to all of that mayhem.

Bottom line, Seye recovered the flag and ran it (torn and on a broken pole) proudly past the cheering Stanford fans. We won Big Game, and afterwards the Daily ran an article that said that after his heroics, "Flagboy" was an inadequate nickname and that he should henceforth be called "Flagman."

Man, we had good times on the cheerleading squad. We weren't very good, but we had a fun time

[GoodGrief]

Ahh, thanks for allowing me to take a stroll down memory lane. Let me elucidate.

Our cheerleading squad came to be because Denny Green wanted cheerleaders. Originally, the squad was all female and 1 male. The one male was an average-sized Caucasian guy named JoMichael who ran the flag with great enthusiasm. And so he earned the nicknamed "Flagboy."

Then, there was a big push to get more guys on the squad, so that's when I and several other guys came on board. Because I tumbled, I got the nickname Flipboy. (Sidenote, we would lead the football team out onto the field with me tumbling at the front. Nothing motivates you to tumble quickly like knowing that thousands of pounds of stampeding flesh are following behind you).

And one of the new guys on the squad was a brobdingnagian black man named Seye (good memory, Snorlax, because it is pronounced "Shea") who started running the flag. And if I recall correctly, the crowd largely continued calling him Flagboy, but there were quips that he was more of a "Flagman" or "Flagasaurus."

So one Big Game, we were playing at Memorial Stadium, and of course Cal was losing. So one Cal student decided that the way to salvage the game was to steal the Stanford flag. So he ran onto the field and grabbed the flag and headed for the stands. All of us male cheerleaders ran after him, but Seye got there first. He ran into the stands after the flag and was struggling to get it. And here's where some Cal student made a horrendous error in judgement: he pushed Seye over a bench. Whereupon Seye went pure Hulk on...somebody. He grabbed a student with one hand around his throat, and that kid's neck just disappeared inside Seye's hand; his eyes bugged out, his face was red, and he looked terrified. And honestly, I think that kid may have been a really unlucky bystander to all of that mayhem.

Bottom line, Seye recovered the flag and ran it (torn and on a broken pole) proudly past the cheering Stanford fans. We won Big Game, and afterwards the Daily ran an article that said that after his heroics, "Flagboy" was an inadequate nickname and that he should henceforth be called "Flagman."

Man, we had good times on the cheerleading squad. We weren't very good, but we had a fun time

[CompSci87]

Great story, GG!

[CompSci87]

Great story, GG!

[lex24]

I have not been to a pro football game in years. Frankly I just don't like the game day environment.  If people were to give me tickets I'd think about it. But there's no way I'm paying anything to go to a pro football game

[lex24]

I have not been to a pro football game in years. Frankly I just don't like the game day environment.  If people were to give me tickets I'd think about it. But there's no way I'm paying anything to go to a pro football game